Originally posted by Abloec

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by Abloec

Originally posted by Fadedbomb  

People don't like being unable to see their characters, it ruins immersion along with the overall feel of the game.

In the end, if nothing else works, it's the fact that practically EVERY popular MMORPG before MO has been third person view. Do you honestly think people whom are coming from WoW/Daoc/WAR/AO/EvE/EQ/EQ2/Lotro will be very welcoming of being told how to view their character in an MMORPG and NOT an MMOFPS? Well, I can tell you right now that I do since I've been asking around with popular MMO guilds from these forums and others about this very same question, and I bet you'll never guess the answers I got about it :)....needless to say I don't need to go on much further with this discussion.

 

 

Ok I got 2 things to point out about the parts ive quoted first, first person does actually the exact opposite of what you say. First person immereses yourself into the character. 2 when I look at the games listed in the 2nd part EQ was a First Person only game and considering it ran strong for atleast 5 years and is still going on today, and I played it for 4. The way I look at it is First Person definately can work if they do it right regardless, and more than likely they will have a way to allow yourself to see what you look like.

For YOU it might immerse you in the game, where as for others it does the opposite. The point I'm making is that they are removing our choice between the two and forcing us to "like" first person view (ie: a very bad move). I'm sorry you missed that :(.

 

Lol you never once stated that the reason you didn't like the first person view was because they were removing 3rd personal all together you just said 3rd person was the only way to go. Also you have to think about the fact that ok your part of a group that likes being able to see your females characters ass, while there are other people that actually like to play as the character not just watch it shine in brand new "epix"

I've never played female toons in an MMO and I won't be starting anytime soon. Nice try troll =|, go back to WoW please...

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by Abloec

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by Abloec

Originally posted by Fadedbomb  

People don't like being unable to see their characters, it ruins immersion along with the overall feel of the game.

In the end, if nothing else works, it's the fact that practically EVERY popular MMORPG before MO has been third person view. Do you honestly think people whom are coming from WoW/Daoc/WAR/AO/EvE/EQ/EQ2/Lotro will be very welcoming of being told how to view their character in an MMORPG and NOT an MMOFPS? Well, I can tell you right now that I do since I've been asking around with popular MMO guilds from these forums and others about this very same question, and I bet you'll never guess the answers I got about it :)....needless to say I don't need to go on much further with this discussion.

 

 

Ok I got 2 things to point out about the parts ive quoted first, first person does actually the exact opposite of what you say. First person immereses yourself into the character. 2 when I look at the games listed in the 2nd part EQ was a First Person only game and considering it ran strong for atleast 5 years and is still going on today, and I played it for 4. The way I look at it is First Person definately can work if they do it right regardless, and more than likely they will have a way to allow yourself to see what you look like.

For YOU it might immerse you in the game, where as for others it does the opposite. The point I'm making is that they are removing our choice between the two and forcing us to "like" first person view (ie: a very bad move). I'm sorry you missed that :(.

 

Lol you never once stated that the reason you didn't like the first person view was because they were removing 3rd personal all together you just said 3rd person was the only way to go. Also you have to think about the fact that ok your part of a group that likes being able to see your females characters ass, while there are other people that actually like to play as the character not just watch it shine in brand new "epix"

I've never played female toons in an MMO and I won't be starting anytime soon. Nice try troll =|, go back to WoW please...

Not many people will admit to getting their rocks off to a Video Game so that doesn't count for much, you do realize you are imposing your opinion to the people that read this forum that 3rd person is the only way to go or it will fail and a lot of your arguments are void, like I have said immersion is supossed make you feel like your the character thats what true immersion is, allowing people to look at their character from a 3rd person view takes away from that immersion it is no longer a character its another 3d model on a screen.

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by mutombo55

I'd have to say, in the heat of battle, 1st person is far more immersive. In Age of Chiv mod, theres nothing quite like cracking skulls with a crushing overhead hammer strike. From a "role playing" perspective, 3rd is probably better. From a character progression standpoint, 3rd is probablty better too because you can see the phat loots, new moves and shinies your toon gets. My next point is so important, I'm gunna use a new paragraph and colours!

 

The absolute most important thing for MortalOnline: They have to make compelling melee combat. If its just a Counterstrike circle strafing knifefight with healing pots, then this game will fail. 1st or 3rd person, IMO it really doesnt matter. Just get the melee combat right dammit!

 

 (quick edit. I mentioned Age of Chiv mod. But I expect MO combat to be better than this, more depth ramble rant etc.....)

Once again, for YOU it immerses you in the game or combat, where as for OTHERS it does the opposite. There are players whom can't stomach 3rd person, and there are those whom can't stomach first person. The PROBLEM that MO's devs are forcing on their players is to ONLY play in first person. Many of my friends whom I've played pvp oriented MMO's for years will not play MO unless they can enjoy their experience in third person and NOT be forced into FPV only.

I guess I am completely missing the term immersion? Doesn't immersion put you IN the virtual world, in your character's shoes? At what point do I get to swing a magical floating camera around myself in person or am I just doing something wrong?

Originally posted by Abloec

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by Abloec

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by Abloec

Originally posted by Fadedbomb  

People don't like being unable to see their characters, it ruins immersion along with the overall feel of the game.

In the end, if nothing else works, it's the fact that practically EVERY popular MMORPG before MO has been third person view. Do you honestly think people whom are coming from WoW/Daoc/WAR/AO/EvE/EQ/EQ2/Lotro will be very welcoming of being told how to view their character in an MMORPG and NOT an MMOFPS? Well, I can tell you right now that I do since I've been asking around with popular MMO guilds from these forums and others about this very same question, and I bet you'll never guess the answers I got about it :)....needless to say I don't need to go on much further with this discussion.

 

 

Ok I got 2 things to point out about the parts ive quoted first, first person does actually the exact opposite of what you say. First person immereses yourself into the character. 2 when I look at the games listed in the 2nd part EQ was a First Person only game and considering it ran strong for atleast 5 years and is still going on today, and I played it for 4. The way I look at it is First Person definately can work if they do it right regardless, and more than likely they will have a way to allow yourself to see what you look like.

For YOU it might immerse you in the game, where as for others it does the opposite. The point I'm making is that they are removing our choice between the two and forcing us to "like" first person view (ie: a very bad move). I'm sorry you missed that :(.

 

Lol you never once stated that the reason you didn't like the first person view was because they were removing 3rd personal all together you just said 3rd person was the only way to go. Also you have to think about the fact that ok your part of a group that likes being able to see your females characters ass, while there are other people that actually like to play as the character not just watch it shine in brand new "epix"

I've never played female toons in an MMO and I won't be starting anytime soon. Nice try troll =|, go back to WoW please...

 

Not many people will admit to getting their rocks off to a Video Game so that doesn't count for much, you do realize you are imposing your opinion to the people that read this forum that 3rd person is the only way to go or it will fail and a lot of your arguments are void, like I have said immersion is supossed make you feel like your the character thats what true immersion is, allowing people to look at their character from a 3rd person view takes away from that immersion it is no longer a character its another 3d model on a screen.

You bash me "inflating" my opinion over others on this forum when, in fact, you are doing EXACTLY the same thing you're accusing me of Mr.Hypocrit. If my opinion is not worthful to anyone then neither is yours, so why do you keep posting in this thread? Also, I know the definition of "immersion", which is why I continue to say YOUR version of immersion is much different than many other people's. How you enjoy it is not like everyone elses. What I was "trying" to point out in my OP was that the fact remains, MMO'RPG's SHOULD have no delimitations upon the player as to how they wish to play within reason. Restricting your point of view to a SINGLE view is not "within reason". I'm sorry you don't feel the same way, but don't start tacking values like "allowing people to look at their character from a 3rd person view takes away from that immersion it is no longer a character its another 3d model on a screen" when they are COMPLETELY untrue and wholey YOUR opinion.

Originally posted by gimmeapenny

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by mutombo55

I'd have to say, in the heat of battle, 1st person is far more immersive. In Age of Chiv mod, theres nothing quite like cracking skulls with a crushing overhead hammer strike. From a "role playing" perspective, 3rd is probably better. From a character progression standpoint, 3rd is probablty better too because you can see the phat loots, new moves and shinies your toon gets. My next point is so important, I'm gunna use a new paragraph and colours!

 

The absolute most important thing for MortalOnline: They have to make compelling melee combat. If its just a Counterstrike circle strafing knifefight with healing pots, then this game will fail. 1st or 3rd person, IMO it really doesnt matter. Just get the melee combat right dammit!

 

 (quick edit. I mentioned Age of Chiv mod. But I expect MO combat to be better than this, more depth ramble rant etc.....)

Once again, for YOU it immerses you in the game or combat, where as for OTHERS it does the opposite. There are players whom can't stomach 3rd person, and there are those whom can't stomach first person. The PROBLEM that MO's devs are forcing on their players is to ONLY play in first person. Many of my friends whom I've played pvp oriented MMO's for years will not play MO unless they can enjoy their experience in third person and NOT be forced into FPV only.

 

I guess I am completely missing the term immersion? Doesn't immersion put you IN the virtual world, in your character's shoes? At what point do I get to swing a magical floating camera around myself in person or am I just doing something wrong?

Immersion changes from person to person, for some it's the feeling of impact within an imaginary world, for others it's the feeling of "belonging" within said imaginary world. How that "impact" or "belonging" is obtained is purely by preference and NOT a set value that people can copy & paste like "some people" in this thread seem to think.

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

People don't like being unable to see their characters, it ruins immersion along with the overall feel of the game.

Immersion changes from person to person, for some it's the feeling of impact within an imaginary world, for others it's the feeling of "belonging" within said imaginary world. How that "impact" or "belonging" is obtained is purely by preference and NOT a set value that people can copy & paste like "some people" in this thread seem to think.

1) Game will fail because First Person kills Immersion

2) Immersion changes dependant on the person

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by mutombo55

I'd have to say, in the heat of battle, 1st person is far more immersive. In Age of Chiv mod, theres nothing quite like cracking skulls with a crushing overhead hammer strike. From a "role playing" perspective, 3rd is probably better. From a character progression standpoint, 3rd is probablty better too because you can see the phat loots, new moves and shinies your toon gets. My next point is so important, I'm gunna use a new paragraph and colours!

 

The absolute most important thing for MortalOnline: They have to make compelling melee combat. If its just a Counterstrike circle strafing knifefight with healing pots, then this game will fail. 1st or 3rd person, IMO it really doesnt matter. Just get the melee combat right dammit!

 

 (quick edit. I mentioned Age of Chiv mod. But I expect MO combat to be better than this, more depth ramble rant etc.....)

Once again, for YOU it immerses you in the game or combat, where as for OTHERS it does the opposite. There are players whom can't stomach 3rd person, and there are those whom can't stomach first person. The PROBLEM that MO's devs are forcing on their players is to ONLY play in first person. Many of my friends whom I've played pvp oriented MMO's for years will not play MO unless they can enjoy their experience in third person and NOT be forced into FPV only.

The problem I see here is that YOU are crying over a design decision made for a game NO ONE is forcing YOU to play, so why are you whining?

first off what kills when I hear ppl whine about fpv, if you ask a majority of the ppl over 30 years of age, we don't give a sh-t what our toon looks like, why does everyone care so much about the thing that means the least in any mmo, jesus give it a rest, should be looking at gameplay, originality, graphics should pull up 3rd, lag stuff like that, give the how cool is my armor crap a rest. In todays world of give me now, even if you get that cool new piece of armor like a sugar cube it only excites you for about 20 mins then you get all depressed again and need to take a pill.

Why 1st person view is better in some games:

Full control in combat = need for 1st person view. Try and pop an arrow in someones back in 3rd person without auto aiming. You can't.

Realism: in 3rd person you can spot someone sneaking up to you from behind without you hearing him. Most races we know, in and out of game, don't have eyes in the back of their heads.

Immersion: Having a smaller field of view and the natural perspective of 1st person view, brings more excitement and realism to combat situation; it is not easy mode anymore to assess a situation from the maximum zoomed, rts perspective which most mmorpgs allow. You are actually 'in there' and have to look around occasionaly to see what the hell is going on.

TPV have ruin FPV in all other MMO games. Having TPV makes FPV into a disadvantage. Its about time there comes a FPV only MMO.  

MO is about a free world with no restriction. TPV isnt realistic and dont create a sens that you are the player. The MMO market is full with TPV games, so go play them instead.

I don't understand why people are arguing first person view as the most immersive. I remember reading someone's post where they said they prefer third person, and so do I. I remember the only time I felt "immersed" in a world was on a roleplaying server on Neverwinter Nights, and that's third person. I don't need to see just as I do offline to be immersed in a world. Being immersed is a matter of opinion. Look at the folks who are totally in love with EVE (Gosh, I wish I could be one of them). They only see their ship, and that's third person. Yet they're quite deep into it. So first person view may be more immersive to some of you, but third person is for some others.

I'd love to try the game if the combat is fun, but only with a third person view. I have my shooters for first person games, and that satisfies me enough for first person.

It could probably not give an advantage to third person players if there were no free camera, that you have to turn around to look around. I wouldn't see a problem with that. I just like to see the character pull off slick maneuvers, and not just his hands.

Third person view is really the most immersive, it can never be otherwise. Every game is limiting your view distance and peripheral vision, and in 1st person view it becomes even smaller. With peripheral vision radius lowered, you should at least be able to see what's going on behind your back and not turn around every 2 seconds like an idiot

If you are used to it from the shooters, it's fine, you always have the option to turn it on in EVERY game. But to restrict players... pfffft... it only gives away the developers' helplessness and inability to make a decent game.

Well, I wouldn't say it'll be a bad game, per se. But I'm sure I will not enjoy it, even if I do decide to try it (I probably won't, because it doesn't allow third person). I generally give all MMORPGs a fair shot. Even bought Warhammer knowing I'd hate it, tried it, hated it. Even renewed my subscription in February to try since I'm sure it had some fix ups since launch, and still hated it.

But without third person view, I just won't enjoy any RPG. There's nothing fun to me about seeing the 1-2 swing animation.

I still wonder why all TPV lovers argue why TPV games have bring better immersion, when they didn't even touch FPV games (not FPS games). Seems they are talking about other type of "immersion" than FPV games players.

Anyway, FPV won't be changed to TPV due to couple well known facts.

Really, if theres a choice between first person and third person view, almost no one would use first person view, simply because it would put you at a disadvantage. If you can't see behind you but others can, you really are at a disadvantage.

Also i think it will be weird trying to hit the 10 different hitboxes in TPV.

Tried playing any of those third person view games in first person? And actually done well in pvp? I doubt that you have.

And if you don't like what the game has to offer, theres an easy solution to that, simply don't play it :)

The OP has a good argument here, some people like 1st person, some people like 3rd person, but what you have to think about is that a 3rd person view might not work at all with the game mechanics that the developers have in mind. Except if you want them to change everything and make a game that is 3rd person view friednly. Which I doubt.

I disagree with the op on this one.

There is a reason why the game is only in fpv. The element of suprize. your not going to see a WoW rogue class that suddenly vanishes into thin air to ambush. Here they want to limit what you can see around you which does make the game more immersive.

Ill explain. When i tried morrowind when it came out yeah i saw my char in the char creation screen then i was tossed into the game in 1st person view.  As i was walking around . suddenly i get hit by an arrow and i quicly turn around looking where the shot came from. I was surpized. Now i switched to 3rd person view and now i can see much more on what around me. NEVER again i felt the same  think i felt at 1st when i was in first person. It killed the element of suprize. I could pan the camara in ways were i could catch a glimse of what may attack me.

When i played Oblivion i decided to play it fully in FPV It was an awsome experience.

The main reason why some people will be turned off by First person view and prefer 3rd person is to manipulate the camara, never to be supriszed..

FPV all the time will make this game stand out. You see someone and your behind him lurking in the shadows knowing he cannot see you. You dont have to worry about getting close and bam he saw you becase he was in 3rd person and watched you approach from behind.

I would love to pluck an arrow and watch him go in wtf mode looking around where the attacker could be. Games in 3rd person view do not allow that. Heck infact WOW is a prime example why both views should never be together. Try pvping in wow in 1st person view against people who use the regular 3rd person view. Anyone can be a rogue vs you since you cannot see other than whats in front of you. You will have a serious disadvantage. This is one of the main reasons why you cannot have both and props to the company for sticking with 1 view only.

Originally posted by MangoXII

I don't understand why people are arguing first person view as the most immersive.......... Being immersed is a matter of opinion.

With melee combat I prefer to have the possibility to move my camera just behind the toon. In a computer game you have a far narrower viewing angle in first person then in real life. In most fps games it doesnt matter that much, because your opponents either come with a lot of noise from a distance (PVE) or stay at a distance because its mainly ranged fighting (PvP).

In a game where melee combat is important, you lack the possibility to sense movement in the corner of your eye, or a quick glance around, so a camera just behind your toon works way better to be aware of your immediate surroundings. First person view would be NOT immersive for me. Its as if you are looking through cupped hands all the time.

Originally posted by someforumguy

With melee combat I prefer to have the possibility to move my camera just behind the toon. In a computer game you have a far narrower viewing angle in first person then in real life. In most fps games it doesnt matter that much, because your opponents either come with a lot of noise from a distance (PVE) or stay at a distance because its mainly ranged fighting (PvP).

In a game where melee combat is important, you lack the possibility to sense movement in the corner of your eye, or a quick glance around, so a camera just behind your toon works way better to be aware of your immediate surroundings. First person view would be NOT immersive for me. Its as if you are looking through cupped hands all the time.

 

You have a good point here.