Originally posted by halfmoon

 

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Originally posted by lyankyj
 
Hey, that's my idea:P
Yes, I too think this would be the best solution for everyone, I'm gonna sugges this to certain ppl ,hopefully it'll get attention.

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was it? sorry i didn't see it but i've only skimmed lately. you can have full credit if someone comes asking who thought of it first. i will be quite content to just have the option. :)

Nah, you can have it, your english is better to further explain its purpose:P

I'm just glad others thought about that too and it seems there is quite a need for such options.

The problem with the toggle is that these silly weapons are SKINS, are they not? If you could toggle them off, the only way they might be able to code that is if they toggle all skins.

That is if the skin is actually on top of the original graphic if it replaces the graphic then they would have to make alternate appearances for these weapons. I don't see that ever happening.

Either way, they just need to create a separate item category for event-kind of things and set toggle only to that particular category.

*runs off crying to the immersion doctor*

lol it looks interesting

I don't like them, but I think the toggle is an even worse idea. Some people go to a lot of trouble to get their look 'just right'. It may not be the look you like, but it's thier character. Putting on blinders and ignoring or filtering the intentional design choices is tantamount to censorship; sure, you're only censoring yourself, but the fact remains. If you don't like the fish sword, don't get one; feel free to groan to yourself if someone happens to smack you with one. Filtering out blood, sex, and profanity is one thing; that's a moral judgment call. But 'I don't want to see carrot swords, because it's silly and it's screwing up my real fantasy'? Come on.

...I really don't think there's anything wrong with them.  In fact, I kind of like them! ^_^

They're funny and add a silly aspect to the game. 

I hate high fantasy. But this is taking it to a higher level of hate.

But it doesn't look like a serious game so, I guess whatever. I would probably have enjoyed it if I weren't so concerned about the immersion factor when I play.

Serious is a matter of perspective, I'm sure there'll be plenty of people serious about leveling up their points or defending their turf carrots in hand or not.

Originally posted by Deadman87

I hate high fantasy. But this is taking it to a higher level of hate.

Why most people use the term "High Fantasy" in the wrong way in these forums?

The main difference between High and Low Fantasy is the moral aspect, the bounds between good and evil,  not the amount of goofyness.

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Originally posted by Deadman87
I hate high fantasy. But this is taking it to a higher level of hate.
 
But it doesn't look like a serious game so, I guess whatever. I would probably have enjoyed it if I weren't so concerned about the immersion factor when I play.

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I understand this point well. I like a certain amount of "immersion:" in MMOs and like things to "make sense" and have a flow. But immersion is a total illusion anyways. You don't really think you are that person, or if your phone rings or you power disconnect, not very immersive. All MMOs are just glorified board games pretty much. The minute you turn your head away from your LCD screen or someone speaks to you, "immersion" is lost.

But this is a fantasy world where cartoons shoot fire and pull ice out of thin air, never eat or go to the bathroom and die then get up again in a few seconds unharmed. I certainly don't see why someone couldn't weild a giant fish or pair of carrots as deadly weapons in this environment given those parameters. I guess we would just have to figure out which size of vegetable is permissible to kill someone with, hehe.

Actually, since you CAN kill someone with a raw carrot in real life, the realism aspect of "No killing with vegetables" isn't totally true. I don't think there are any "serious" games based on your grading scale other than ones such as EVE or Battlefield, things were there are only humans in realistic settings. It's hard to go for "serious" when you are contemplating playing a humanoid female who has huge wings, will never age or die, and can fly anytime you wish while actually being a guy in real life.

The whole reality versus fantasy argument is silly.  The fact is you can make any sword look however you want (it may not be battle worthy but will still kill you).

With that being said here are some pictures of real swords:

Hope it works.

Venge Sunsoar

What wrong with adding fun items to the game, these will most likely be less powerful than the real gear. And I wouldnt mind taking a few screens with guildys wearing these.

Originally posted by popinjay

 

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Originally posted by Deadman87
I hate high fantasy. But this is taking it to a higher level of hate.
 
But it doesn't look like a serious game so, I guess whatever. I would probably have enjoyed it if I weren't so concerned about the immersion factor when I play.

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I understand this point well. I like a certain amount of "immersion:" in MMOs and like things to "make sense" and have a flow. But immersion is a total illusion anyways. You don't really think you are that person, or if your phone rings or you power disconnect, not very immersive. All MMOs are just glorified board games pretty much. The minute you turn your head away from your LCD screen or someone speaks to you, "immersion" is lost.

But this is a fantasy world where cartoons shoot fire and pull ice out of thin air, never eat or go to the bathroom and die then get up again in a few seconds unharmed. I certainly don't see why someone couldn't weild a giant fish or pair of carrots as deadly weapons in this environment given those parameters. I guess we would just have to figure out which size of vegetable is permissible to kill someone with, hehe.

 

Actually, since you CAN kill someone with a raw carrot in real life, the realism aspect of "No killing with vegetables" isn't totally true. I don't think there are any "serious" games based on your grading scale other than ones such as EVE or Battlefield, things were there are only humans in realistic settings. It's hard to go for "serious" when you are contemplating playing a humanoid female who has huge wings, will never age or die, and can fly anytime you wish while actually being a guy in real life.

 

 

 

I think you are trying to rationalize Deadman´s personal view of gaming immersion too much.

It is his opinion and what he is looking for in a MMO-RPG, I agree with him in certain degree.

See, as an example, I do prefer when MMOs have their on names and occasions for holidays than simple christmas or eastern bunnies, I do prefer and it is more immersive TO ME the Norrath´s Frostfell than the pure christmas of some korean games. (by Korean games Im not bashing Aion)

Sound silly? Maybe, but it is all related to immersion and how you feel when you play in this alternate universe.

Eve and Battlefiels are not "serious" for me especially Battlefield, but Silent Hill2 with its moral and psychological aspects is a pretty serious game for me.

Serious go far beyond the "realistic" skin in a game, a lot of "realistc" FPS games as BF are too shallow to be taken as a serious setting.

MMOs need some sense of humor as we usually play them for much more time, but sometimes somethings are too much and ruin the immersion of some players, how can we judge what everyone should enjoy as immersive in a game? An this has nothing to do with your game x real life comparison.

As you said, you like certain amount of immersion and sometimes even the most absurd setting need to be cohesive with its own laws to keep "beliveable" even in the most unbeliveable situation.

I cant judge these Aion weapons, would need to play more and know more about the game itself

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Originally posted by Umbral

I think you are trying to rationalize Deadman´s personal view of gaming immersion too much.
It is his opinion and what he is looking for in a MMO-RPG, I agree with him in certain degree.
See, as an example, I do prefer when MMOs have their on names and occasions for holidays than simple christmas or eastern bunnies, I do prefer and it is more immersive TO ME the Norrath´s Frostfell than the pure christmas of some korean games. (by Korean games Im not bashing Aion)
Sound silly? Maybe, but it is all related to immersion and how you feel when you play in this alternate universe.
Eve and Battlefiels are not "serious" for me especially Battlefield, but Silent Hill2 with its moral and psychological aspects is a pretty serious game for me.
Serious go far beyond the "realistic" skin in a game, a lot of "realistc" FPS games as BF are too shallow to be taken as a serious setting.
MMOs need some sense of humor as we usually play them for much more time, but sometimes somethings are too much and ruin the immersion of some players, how can we judge what everyone should enjoy as immersive in a game? An this has nothing to do with your game x real life comparison.
As you said, you like certain amount of immersion and sometimes even the most absurd setting need to be cohesive with its own laws to keep "beliveable" even in the most unbeliveable situation.
I cant judge these Aion weapons, would need to play more and know more about the game itself
...

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I figured since this was a MMO site, and we are talking about MMOs, that when he said "serious" he's referring to serious MMOs, not single player consoles or whatever other platforms. If that's the case, then we could use single player fantasy games that are just as serious. Of these MMOs, I take it he means a certain amount of believability. Again, ship based combat is pretty believable and the fact that if you get it blown up there, you lose quite a bit of goods and that is about as "serious" as you can get. I don't know anything more serious than that in a game world other than Permadeath.

I'm don't think he specifically said he's looking for a MMO-RPG as you believe, but if that's the case, any fantasy game isn't really made for then in an MMO. Unless he's like, a strict roleplayer in something like LOTRO or SWG (which to me is "high fantasy") but again, I'll leave that up to his to clarify. I only went off of the three lines he posted, not really trying to see into it, but just going off of what he wrote there.

Perhaps we both should leave it up to him to clarify which MMOs he thinks are "high fantasy", which MMOs are "serious" and which ones give him "immersion". Hopefully he'll repost.

Originally posted by popinjay

 

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Originally posted by Umbral

 

I think you are trying to rationalize Deadman´s personal view of gaming immersion too much.
It is his opinion and what he is looking for in a MMO-RPG, I agree with him in certain degree.
See, as an example, I do prefer when MMOs have their on names and occasions for holidays than simple christmas or eastern bunnies, I do prefer and it is more immersive TO ME the Norrath´s Frostfell than the pure christmas of some korean games. (by Korean games Im not bashing Aion)
Sound silly? Maybe, but it is all related to immersion and how you feel when you play in this alternate universe.
Eve and Battlefiels are not "serious" for me especially Battlefield, but Silent Hill2 with its moral and psychological aspects is a pretty serious game for me.
Serious go far beyond the "realistic" skin in a game, a lot of "realistc" FPS games as BF are too shallow to be taken as a serious setting.
MMOs need some sense of humor as we usually play them for much more time, but sometimes somethings are too much and ruin the immersion of some players, how can we judge what everyone should enjoy as immersive in a game? An this has nothing to do with your game x real life comparison.
As you said, you like certain amount of immersion and sometimes even the most absurd setting need to be cohesive with its own laws to keep "beliveable" even in the most unbeliveable situation.
I cant judge these Aion weapons, would need to play more and know more about the game itself
...

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I figured since this was a MMO site, and we are talking about MMOs, that when he said "serious" he's referring to serious MMOs, not single player consoles or whatever other platforms. If that's the case, then we could use single player fantasy games that are just as serious. Of these MMOs, I take it he means a certain amount of believability. Again, ship based combat is pretty believable and the fact that if you get it blown up there, you lose quite a bit of goods and that is about as "serious" as you can get. I don't know anything more serious than that in a game world other than Permadeath.

 

But you mentioned Battlefield, we all know BF is not a MMO.

The way BF uses the WWII is a bit shallow, we cant talk much about it, but a lot of games and people turn WWII historical facts in some High Fantasy fiction where WWII was a good vs evil War (it doesnt happen in BF)... well, far from the truth.

I disagree with the argument serious is equal to realistic, a fantastic allegory but with deep thoughts and reflexions could be much more serious than a realistic but shallow fiction.

I'm don't think he specifically said he's looking for a MMO-RPG as you believe, but if that's the case, any fantasy game isn't really made for then in an MMO. Unless he's like, a strict roleplayer in something like LOTRO or SWG (which to me is "high fantasy") but again, I'll leave that up to his to clarify. I only went off of the three lines he posted, not really trying to see into it, but just going off of what he wrote there.

 

Lord of the Rings and Star Wars are pure High Fantasy works.

Age of Conan is one of the few "sword and magic" game based totally in a Low Fantasy setting, even in Everquest setting, Warhammer original setting, moral aspects and the old Good vs Evil is not so clear as in Lord of The Rings,(but clear enough to make them H.F.) so Lotro is without a doubt the most High Fantasy of all MMos.

Mythical creatures, elven people, and fantastic landscapes are not what will define a game/fiction/lore as High or Low Fantasy... 

But I agree, we really dont know for sure what he ment...

Perhaps we both should leave it up to him to clarify which MMOs he thinks are "high fantasy", which MMOs are "serious" and which ones give him "immersion". Hopefully he'll repost.
 

Fair enough, I agree.

edit-I dont see LF better than HF or HF better than LF, both can be interesting and expressive...

I personally avoid using weapons that don't make sense to me - so no carrots or sharks. However, I wouldn't downrate a game for adding a sense of humor into equipment design.

I'll use Soul Calibur 4 as an example. I love the game, enjoy playing the new character Hilde, completed all the modes, accumulated enough points to unlock all the customizeable items. But I don't like using surf boards and ears of corn as weapons, so I avoid them. I'm not going to quit or tell others that Soul Calibur sucked because you can get hit with giant squids.

Then again, I would be very annoyed if the carrot or shark happens to be an ultimate weapon for my class. :(

You all are thinking about this all wrong. There is nothing wrong with the stuff especially the weapons BECAUSE, for example, you are not fighting with a giant carrot.. you're fighting with a sword that looks like a giant carrot... HUGE difference as far as I, and a lot of others, are concerned.

The clown hat, and cheft hat are probably event and crafting items that pretty much all MMOs have from WoW to GW to FFXI

Originally posted by curiindi

I wouldn't downrate a game for adding a sense of humor into equipment design.

I agree. But if the "humor-ish stuff" is overdone and constantly in the center of attention, then it gets old very quickly. And then annoying.

Assuming this is serious (didn't read the whole thread), then no, I don't like it.

Originally posted by Cynthe

Originally posted by halfmoon

 

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Originally posted by Cynthe
 
Say what? It's not your intellectual property but NCsoft's and they can do whatever they want with it. You can say you hate it or like it but that's as far as your input (or mine) goes.

 

 

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my turn for "say what?"
i'm at a total loss as to how you derived whatever you did from my saying i had an ideal concept of the game in my imagination.

 

i am saying that i would like to imagine that they are going to deliver the game as close to my ideals as possible. that may be a pipe dream or it may happen to a degree that surprises me. i'll find out on day of release.

 

My point is how can you have an ideal concept of the game when it is not YOUR concept to begin with?

Geez, get off the guys nutsack if you can't even comprehend a pretty simple statement.
 

All he said was he had an ideal concept in his mind. What the hell does the game not being his have to do with it?

Kind of like when I look at a cute chick and picture what she'd look like naked. Doesn't mean she will look like that, just means that, with the best case scenario in my mind, she will.