I've been downloading a bunch of old MMOs lately (mostly games 5+ years old)

Games like Shadowbane, AO, DAoC, Ragnarok, AC1 and Free shards of EQ,SWG,UO.

Seriously really good experiences the last month or so.

Hell even the game I play fulltime (Eve) is six years old and amazing.

Makes me sad that for me the new mmos just don't stack up.

Sure new mmos have better graphics and are usually easier to use with advance maps that push you to quests and the absence of a messed up death penalties.

I just can't help but feel that these games haven't evolved the genre at all. Go play shadowbane and tell me the genre has evolved the city building mechanic at all. Go play UO (FS) and tell me these new games give you more gameplay options. Go play DAoC and tell me these new MMOs even compete with the three way faction wars you can have.Go play AO and tell me the genre has evolved on their solo dungeon mechanic. Go play EQ,SWG or AC1 and tell me mmos have evolved on the world simulation aspect of those games.

I bet you can't.

How does a genre regress and still become more popular? what the hell is going on?

Shouldn't we want a more advance world simulation? more advance character progression? more advance features? more advance crafting? more advance city building?

Why are games with less features accepted by todays community? Graphics? less of a learning curve makes new games more enjoyable?

Because a game adds cartoon graphics, instanced dungeons and instanced pvp thats evolution of the genre? I seriously cannot see how anyone that played these old games can accept the current crop of MMOs.

I played UO/EQ and DAoC a very long time ago and not until recently have I realized how truely epic those games are compared to whats currently offered.

Maybe if players would go back and fill up DAoC, AC, AO and other older game servers these new devs will get the hint.

Anyway just a quick rant thanks for reading.

Edit: I am in no way promoting Free shard or illegal private server use, its only an example of how older games were actually better back then. and how far the genre has fallen imo.

I have to agree, even though I really dislike SoE I still find my <3 in games like EQ. The amount of content is just staggering. New MMO seem really small and confined to me.

I have to admit I do like WoW and Vanguard more than I used to because I realise that PVE games with good high-end content and robust classes are really rare now. As a PVE player I have few options, it's either Vanguard, EQ, WoW or FF.

EQ www.youtube.com/watch is an amazing display of content.

Not one game besides WoW can give me that amount of content and choices, simply because most games can't create that much content when they start with an MMO.

Adding content after release like Darkfall and AoC does annoys me greatly.

Originally posted by Waterlily

I have to agree, even though I really dislike SoE I still find my <3 in games like EQ. The amount of content is just staggering. New MMO seem really small and confined to me.

I have to admit I do like WoW and Vanguard more than I used to because I realise that PVE games with good high-end content and robust classes are really rare now. As a PVE player I have few options, it's either Vanguard, EQ, WoW or FF.

EQ www.youtube.com/watch is an amazing display of content.

Not one game besides WoW can give me that amount of content and choices, simply because most games can't create that much content when they start with an MMO.

Adding content after release like Darkfall and AoC does annoys me greatly.

Im a wow player but i would ask, are you alowed to say WoW is good on this site? Also about games adding content after release, most of that video was after release content. I think its about having just enough at release and stepping in more content at the right times. The fastest players should be waiting and the slowers players should be left behind  so that the middle group always has new content when they are ready for it. Anyway   Yes old games are awesome  and  if vanguard could have been in good shape when it released it WOULD be the new game to play if you wanted epic quests amazing classes and an immersive world.

Seems like MMOs have followed the same pattern as console games and single player games:

 - graphics have improved

 - polish has improved (drastically)

 - much more accessible

 - mainstream appeal is higher than ever

On the flip side we have:

- less depth/complexity

- less features

- less game play options

- less appeal for the "core" crowd.

I am playing Ultima Online right now and it still has things that other MMOs don;t have.

Every object you see you could pick up, and possibly use. I forgot how much fun skill-based games are. I am not a level, I have skills.

 Well said, 

Oh yeah, there is no question that today's mmorpgs can't compete with older games like DAOC and SWG (pre-NGE) even though they may look better.

Alot of the new games have implented cool new features (like in WAR and WoW) that are nice but as far as gameplay is concerned, they just don't come close. :P

I really think this is the only genre that's like this, what other genre can you go play an old game and say "man this game just gives you more stuff to do and is overall a more advanced game".

We can go turn on madden 03 for Genesis and compare it to 09 and say that.

You can't go play outrun and compare it to Grand turismo

You can grab ninja gaiden on NES and compare it to Devil may cray.

We can turn on Doom and say it has deeper gameplay then Call of duty 4

Even old Rts games like Wc1 cant stack up to todays awesome rts games.

I just don't understand why people accept a genre that hasen't evolved for the better.

Oh well. guess i'll have to keep playing my old school mmos, atleast other genres are moving forward imo.

I happen to like older games as well. In games such as FFXI and Everquest even Phantasy star online. When you did something you know it was a challenge and you deserved your reward. Now rewards are basically given away to anyone. The challenge that these games provided is all but gone to make them appeal to the masses.  FFXI is still my favorite mmorpg of all time. It is a challenge of a game, it takes months to get stuff done but getting something done in FFXI as simple as reaching the level cap with 1 class gives the same feeling of acomplishment that you would probably get getting 3 classes to 80 on WoW because of the challenges the experience and the struggles you had to face along your way to ur goal.

I play FFXI as my main game, Since 2004 I have been playing it. On and off since 2006. (About 4 months of the year the past 3 years). I have a level 75 DRG and a 75 White mage, Got Dragoon to 75 back when it was the most hated class in the game and you would be removed from parties because of your class. Right now after all that hard struggle and challenges that I faced in FFXI, I am most proud of my mmorpg acomplisments of FFXI even though its only 2 max level jobs. I happen to think that is worth a hundred times more than my 4 lvl 70s in WoW.

Alazar- Level 75 Dragoon Casual 5 year FFXI Veteran, and proud of it!

Back when Meridian 59 first came out, I was MUDing.  I checked out meridian 59, and I thought it was crap.  Went back to MUDing.

DAOC is still likely one of the best games Ive played. I wager it still holds its own against all the newest releases

Originally posted by Z3R01

I've been downloading a bunch of old MMOs lately (mostly games 5+ years old)

Games like Shadowbane, AO, DAoC, Ragnarok, AC1 and Free shards of EQ,SWG,UO.

Seriously really good experiences the last month or so.

Hell even the game I play fulltime (Eve) is six years old and amazing.

Makes me sad that for me the new mmos just don't stack up.

Sure new mmos have better graphics and are usually easier to use with advance maps that push you to quests and the absence of a mess up death penalty.

I just can't help but feel that these games haven't evolved the genre at all. Go play shadowbane and tell me the genre has evolved the city building mechanic at all. Go play UO (FS) and tell me these new games give you more gameplay options. Go play DAoC and tell me these new MMOs even compete with the three way faction wars you can have.Go play AO and tell me the genre has evolved on their solo dungeon mechanic. Go play EQ,SWG or AC1 and tell me mmos have evolved on the world simulation aspect of those games.

I bet you can't.

How does a genre regress and still become more popular? what the hell is going on?

Shouldn't we want a more advance world simulation? more advance character progression? more advance features? more advance crafting? more advance city building?

Why are games with less features accepted by todays community? Graphics? less of a learning curve makes new games more enjoyable?

Because a game adds cartoon graphics, instanced dungeons and instanced pvp thats evolution of the genre? I seriously cannot see how anyone that played these old games can accept the current crop of MMOs.

I played UO/EQ and DAoC a very long time ago and not until recently have I realized how truely epic those games are compared to whats currently offered.

Maybe if players would go back and fill up DAoC, AC, AO and other older game servers these new devs will get the hint.

Anyway just a quick rant thanks for reading.

 

 

 

Edit: I am in no way promoting Free shard or illegal private server use, its only an example of how older games were actually better back then. and how far the genre has fallen imo.

 

Now imagine those of us who actualy been there with those games at release and with some even in CB or OB and seeing where this genre is heading , which ....yeah yeah I said this many times and will continue doing so, this genre is more and more alike with just multiplayer games with quest and more people then your regular 16/16, 32/32 multiplayer game. Instead of the virtual worlds I invisioned this genre would evolve into.
 

The older games certainly required more time investment than newer ones, but I can't say I liked them, they had some neat features like the player cities in SWG, which weren't as interesting as they sounded, the core problem I had with all the older ones was combat and time investment, something that newer MMOs are trying to address, so I can't say the genre is getting worse.

This comes off sounding mean but it really is the truth, the majority of the population is fairly unintelligent. So when you take a genre that started off for the nerd and geeks, the only way that market is going to reach mass appeal is to be dumbed down. And since major companies are all about the money, they create games to cover the largest part of the market.

So what we end up with is much more simplistic less thought required games. I had played mmos from The Realm and forward, and up to a point I played almost every single one that was out (back when there wasn't a ton out). And I remember enjoying them all greatly up until WoW. I think the last one that I really had fun with was DaOC, and before that UO and AC were my favorites. As soon as WoW came out I picked it up, being a big fan of their rts games I wanted to try it. As soon as I started playing I remember thinking man this is really easy, and then noticing I was halfway through the levels in under a couple weeks (and that was before the walk through sites made it so much easier). I was baffled at how uninteresting this was and how little fun it had, when things are too easy they're just plain not fun.

But then as time kept going on the WoW sales kept shooting up, and it all made sense. They made a game for the mass market, for the people who would hate previous MMOs because they were too difficult and required thinking. Now I'm not hating on Blizzard, they had a true marketing insight back then. What I do hate is that in the quest for more money (spaceballs reference anyone?) the majority of new MMOs follow an ever simplifying formula, to where now on WAR all you have to do for PvE is click on guys that have a symbol over their head (that you found thanks to them showing up on the map) not read their dialog and head off to any red outlined area on your map. That is completly simple and not enjoyable.

And I disagree with the guy who said that new RTS games are great compared to old, new RTS games did the same thing, they're simple and the games last 10 minutes now so that the ADD crowd would find it more enjoyable. They are no longer the thinking man's strategy game. I've followed the series since the first C&C, and I must say the newest C&C are all about flashy graphics and light speed, and they are not fun or challenging. Give me the first C&C or starcraft any day over this new crap, and let's hope starcraft 2 doesn't disgrace the starcraft name.

All game genres follow this path, look at a lot of the newest FPS. Multiplayer is just an arcade shoot em up, die and respawn 3 seconds later. For me this is pretty lame, I prefer the strategy and teamwork of when you die you're out until the next round, so don't screw up.

What true gamers have left to rely on is the indie game makers, who are out mostly to make something they love and not to make the next block buster.

I agree 100% with the OP.

I'm back playing FFXI.

The game is even better than before and it's just so much better than the rubbish we've had to put up with lately. FFXI is not a true sand box game but there is just so much you can do to develop your character.So many different ways to enjoy the game.

It saddens me that MMOs are no longer about virtual worlds.

Old MMOs are awesome.

Daoc was a classic.  WAR is a failure.  I don't know how Mythic messed up so much.

I'd desperately like to play UO again, no mmo has come close to the variety of skills/builds that you could be in. Building your houses with your own npcs' that stand on the street selling your stuff, was amazing. Id go back if i could find a high populated server (maybe free shard :P ). Im a very social person and cant stand playing mmo's on my own. Anyone know of such a place?

Agree with OP.  I have stopped looking for the next great mmo and begun to look back at the truely great ones.  I certinaly will no longer be on any mmo preorder list.

Originally posted by Z3R01

I've been downloading a bunch of old MMOs lately (mostly games 5+ years old)

Games like Shadowbane, AO, DAoC, Ragnarok, AC1 and Free shards of EQ,SWG,UO.

Seriously really good experiences the last month or so.

Hell even the game I play fulltime (Eve) is six years old and amazing.

Makes me sad that for me the new mmos just don't stack up.

Sure new mmos have better graphics and are usually easier to use with advance maps that push you to quests and the absence of a mess up death penalty.

I just can't help but feel that these games haven't evolved the genre at all. Go play shadowbane and tell me the genre has evolved the city building mechanic at all. Go play UO (FS) and tell me these new games give you more gameplay options. Go play DAoC and tell me these new MMOs even compete with the three way faction wars you can have.Go play AO and tell me the genre has evolved on their solo dungeon mechanic. Go play EQ,SWG or AC1 and tell me mmos have evolved on the world simulation aspect of those games.

I bet you can't.

How does a genre regress and still become more popular? what the hell is going on?

Shouldn't we want a more advance world simulation? more advance character progression? more advance features? more advance crafting? more advance city building?

Why are games with less features accepted by todays community? Graphics? less of a learning curve makes new games more enjoyable?

Because a game adds cartoon graphics, instanced dungeons and instanced pvp thats evolution of the genre? I seriously cannot see how anyone that played these old games can accept the current crop of MMOs.

I played UO/EQ and DAoC a very long time ago and not until recently have I realized how truely epic those games are compared to whats currently offered.

Maybe if players would go back and fill up DAoC, AC, AO and other older game servers these new devs will get the hint.

Anyway just a quick rant thanks for reading.

 

 

 

Edit: I am in no way promoting Free shard or illegal private server use, its only an example of how older games were actually better back then. and how far the genre has fallen imo.

 

I totally agree with you. I was born 1995 April 19 on 6:06 PM and when I was little all we had was the classics. Even though your talking about 5 years old games, I think you can relate to older games that have pixel graphics. It reminds me of back in the day when I was with my father.

Originally posted by Z3R01

Go play EQ,SWG or AC1 and tell me mmos have evolved on the world simulation aspect of those games.

I bet you can't.

How does a genre regress and still become more popular? what the hell is going on?

Very simple. The genre evolves on the FUN factor. I started with UO .. HORRIBLE game .. lots of grinding (mining & skill grinding come to mind) and pkfest everywhere.

EQ is marginally better but bogged down by horrible campfest and if you don't have a 10 hr commitment, forget about getting anything good.

WOW looks like a GODSENT in terms of gameplay compared to these games. I played EQ for a long time and WOW is 100x more fun from the first level to the last. Quest breaks up the horrible mob killing level grind. Instances fixe the horrible campfest.

Now MMO are actually FUN games.