it sounds interesting and even though i think lord of the rings is a a great game i personally wont be returning after they continued to charge my paypal account even though i cancelled with them . shame really i was about to invest in a lifetime sub but it annoyed me so much i would never play another game by codemasters/turbine .

Originally posted by qombi

I remember the first time I tried WoW ....

This is a great post , it has all the woorking of a left over vanguard die hard written all over it.

THe one major proplem with Vangaurd players is, the game must have everything in it it, it must take 5 years to craft 1 ingot, it must cater to 12 people.

The sad reality is that , a game is not supposed to be everything, it is a gateway , a door to an adventure where people can contribute and create there own fun with friends they meet in passing bys. Games like LotrO leave something open for th player to enjoy, and great games do that. Bad games either completely take over a players life, or leaves no room for a real community spirit.

If your like qombi, then you most likely need to revisit why you play mmorpg's. If you really want something challenging, get a crossword puzzle .

I think that Quest tracker is a very good thing. I have often been away a time and when returning I didnt know heads or tails where to go.

I would have to say that some of the directions for quests in the Moria release were not particularly helpful.  I can give 4 types of quest directions where this may occur:

1. The directions were in relation to locations you had not yet discovered.  For example it is east of location A and south of location B, but you had not discovered either of those locations and the locations are not shown on your map until you have discovered them
2. The directions send you to a remote locality on a different map from your current one. If you have not even discovered the area on the different map, the directions may not be helpful
3. There is no direct route to where you need to go.  The destination may be NE of you, but you have have to go on a long roundabout route to get there.  Different possible locations that are all NE of you may even require different roundabout routes.  Descriptions of distances in game worlds are very subjective.
4. Because Moria  is underground, the destination could be above or below you on a different level.  Even classes that could track target mobs are challenged.
    

Sometimes the directions involved a combination of the above.

Moria is an underground area, and travel between different map areas often involved long detours due to chasms, blocked passages, broken bridges or  tunnels and corridors that followed indirect routes. 

Given the challenges, on the whole, Turbine did a good job in the quest directions.  However, a map would have made some of the quests clearer.  You could consider it comparable to a treasure map.  It is true that a picture (or map) can save a thousand words of description.

In real life most of us use maps to find new places.  We may even show people where something is on the map when giving directions, particularly where the area is totally unfamiliar.  Modern electronic maps usually show destinations with some type of marker.

Another alternative would have been if the ingame maps included more detail so that the travel directions were more meaningful.

I can understand why Turbine are making the changes. I just hope that their implementation will be the best solution.

Originally posted by solareus

Originally posted by qombi

I remember the first time I tried WoW ....

 

This is a great post , it has all the woorking of a left over vanguard die hard written all over it.

THe one major proplem with Vangaurd players is, the game must have everything in it it, it must take 5 years to craft 1 ingot, it must cater to 12 people.

The sad reality is that , a game is not supposed to be everything, it is a gateway , a door to an adventure where people can contribute and create there own fun with friends they meet in passing bys. Games like LotrO leave something open for th player to enjoy, and great games do that. Bad games either completely take over a players life, or leaves no room for a real community spirit.

If your like qombi, then you most likely need to revisit why you play mmorpg's. If you really want something challenging, get a crossword puzzle .

Hey now don't put words in my mouth! Why should a crossword puzzle be challenging and not an online game? You put words in my mouth. I never mentioned Vanguard and I did say I did enjoy original WoW which was not time consuming. I have a family, job, home etc and played WoW. The original dungeons and raids had some challenge and did not take up all my life.

You need to quit trying to spread propaganda about how much time some of these games take. I raided in the original game on the weekends, our guild did most all end game dungeons. We scheduled to meet up on a day and played 4-5 hrs one day a week. It was a casual guild, all had real life responsibilities. Games can be time convenient and still pose a challenge.

I don't get where you think you can decide that MMORPGs are not meant to provide challenging game play. And don't come telling me I need to revisit why I play games. Half of the stuff you typed you made up on the spot. If you feel WoW was difficult or too time consuming. Remember I played WoW in the past maybe a 2 -3 hrs 3- 4 days a week and maybe 4-5 hours on a Saturday.

Just because you want instant gratification doesn't mean you can make false claims about the time it takes to play or how challenging these games are suppose to be.

Always wondered how long Turbine would hold out before adding in super noob mode - and here it is...

I don't even play LOTRO anymore but when I did it was already FAR too easy to find any location. All this will do is bring in a further level of ignorance to players who won't even bother reading the quest any more but rather FOLLOW DA PRETTY ARROW!

Seems this retardo mode is infecting many games these days (Oblivion and Fallout 3) and its just not a good thing at all. 

'Bring the stupid gamer up to the level of the great game, don't bring the great game down to the level of the stupid gamer' ©

Originally posted by donaldduck

Always wondered how long Turbine would hold out before adding in super noob mode - and here it is...

I don't even play LOTRO anymore but when I did it was already FAR too easy to find any location. All this will do is bring in a further level of ignorance to players who won't even bother reading the quest any more but rather FOLLOW DA PRETTY ARROW!

Seems this retardo mode is infecting many games these days (Oblivion and Fallout 3) and its just not a good thing at all. 

'Bring the stupid gamer up to the level of the great game, don't bring the great game down to the level of the stupid gamer' ©

Well not for nothing but, most people are stupid and all the businesses want their money. What did you think would happen?

But really, it's not even a matter of "stupid" or "1337" dorks [who only know what they're doing due to experience]. It's about lessening the time-sink. That is something all mmos should look into. 

Originally posted by Sanguinia

Originally posted by donaldduck

Always wondered how long Turbine would hold out before adding in super noob mode - and here it is...

I don't even play LOTRO anymore but when I did it was already FAR too easy to find any location. All this will do is bring in a further level of ignorance to players who won't even bother reading the quest any more but rather FOLLOW DA PRETTY ARROW!

Seems this retardo mode is infecting many games these days (Oblivion and Fallout 3) and its just not a good thing at all. 

'Bring the stupid gamer up to the level of the great game, don't bring the great game down to the level of the stupid gamer' ©

 

Well not for nothing but, most people are stupid and all the businesses want their money. What did you think would happen?

But really, it's not even a matter of "stupid" or "1337" dorks [who only know what they're doing due to experience]. It's about lessening the time-sink. That is something all mmos should look into. 

All games are is time sinks. They are there to waste leisurely time. What though is important you have fun doing it and that is why they call it a game. I don't find fun without any challenge. I don't necessarily like timesinks but I do like consequences for failure in my games. All games have consequences for failure, board games, card games, chest, and in the past PC games.

It is no longer a game if there isn't any consequence for not winning. If you really honestly want to remove all timesinks and any consequences for actions you would be better off not playing a game. That removes all time sinks right there.

I think everyone is missing the hidden agenda here.  A lot of people that play the game (as I do) have hit lvl 60 with at least on toon.  Now what.  You maxed out your armor, grinded the quests, grinded the traits, grinded the factions.  I think that for the main part Turbine is doing the XP reduction, Quest helper, and self rez for those that need something else to do, which is lvl up another toon. Secondly they are doing this to help new players to the game that knows someone who plays to advance quicker to catch up to do the fun stuff.

Just about every MMO does this. This is not a new idea.  WoW continues to quicken the pace of the Lower lvls so they can get up with everyone else and still experience the game.  Even EQ did the same thing with Planes of Power making it easier to traverse the world instead of running through countless zones which in some cases where a 20-30 minute run just to get to where your friends were to start fighting.

As this game progresses the Lower lvl stuff will be easier and probably see another XP reduction to lvl in the future.  People want to see the world, but if it takes you forever to lvl up to get there it is daunting.  I don't consider it dumbing it down. I see it as getting through the fluff to get to the more challenging parts of the game.

I love this game and I do have my issues with it, but it is definatly the best game out there atm.  I love challenges as much as the next person, but if you make it too challenging for the experienced MMO crowd (which I have to say makes ever MMO there after easier to do experience playing MMOs) you will lose more of the newer MMO players that the games need to continually get to pay for future expansions, updates, etc.....

I know people love to complain.  It is human nature.  I still believe EQ to be one of the hardest MMOs I have ever played making WoW, SWG, Ryzom, EQ2, LotRO, CoH, TR, Horizons, etc.... way easier in comparison, but no less fun.  The graphics are top notch, the story line is solid, new content constantly added, it keeps the game going.  Without changes like these, regardless if you like them or not, are a necessary evil to the addition to the player base.  WoW understood this and it is the MMO of choice for the majority of MMO players.  I still like WoW and play it from time to time, but I like the graphcis and story line better in LotRO.

I will continue to play LotRO till the servers shut down (no I don't have the Lifetime Membership) because I like the world or LotR, and I don't hesitate to say that no other company could have done better with the game in todays market.  It is a fine balance between noobs, casual players and grinders.  the elite and raid gamers are just going to have to wait and wait for the perfect game which will never come because they all have different views on what makes a MMO's raid and endgame content great.

I welcome the new changes, regardless if I like them or not, and hope it pulls more people into the game for the continuation of the game.  In the end money is what makes or breaks a MMO and money = player subscriptions.

Originally posted by jlayer2000

 

Just about every MMO does this. This is not a new idea. 

And I leave the game every time, that isn't a new result either. : D

qombi,  you will be always be playing new mmos then, because every mmo that will ever come out will always make the beginning content easier in the game.  It is a formula that works and has been proven to work.  I don't know what to tell you other than you will always move to the next MMO coming out and never play a game continuously unless there is another aspect of the game you like.  I am not saying it is a bad thing, like myself, for example, I have play just about ever mmo out there (excluding most free ones) and ran into the same issues, but found other things in LotRO i liked. 

Plus this is mainly for beginning lvls, so what is the difference other than more higher lvls? Most people that are lvl 60 cannot play their toons to the fullest (or just flat out don't know how to play them). I am just curious how this changes anything for you at the higher lvls? just a question.

Originally posted by todeswulf

Yes that is bad news for Joe basement dweller that needs to feel special in the virtual world because they fail at life but that is what...maybe 50% of the gaming population these days?

fixed

Originally posted by qombi

I remember the first time I tried WoW after playing EQ for years. I remember thinking how a MMO couldn't get any easier, that they finally made a game for everyone to enjoy. Anyone could level to the end, there was small group dungeons for people with little time, and raids for people to enjoy on the weekend. I thought this is nice for a slower relaxed easy pace. And then I was dumbstruck to find people refering to WoW as a hard game, an elitest game, a game where only where hardcore goes.

Then WoW became trivial easy in the next two expansions. Too trivial for me to enjoy, I left. I couldn't believe it, MMOs got to the point where they have no challenge and excitement. I would rather watch a TV show rather than log in. Then came LOTRO .. I was dumbfounded once again the bar was again dropped. How much farther can you go before people quit of boredom? Then came Mines of Moria .. a game not only where the game is super easy but there is NO content for large groups.

The largest group is a meer what is it 12, to kill one little boss? The rest was little small group stuff and people still are calling that raiding? To me there isn't any raids in LOTRO, it is very easy to do everything in that game without trying, it takes no time to do it all as well. I think I want more from my online experience. I don't want a solo game that ends in a 3 -6 months? I would rather just buy a offline game to do that. 

Not saying that this is bad for everyone. I am saying I didn't really think it would get to this point where single player rpgs take more time then some MMOs and are more difficult. If you felt anything about lotro was difficult at any time point, I must ask what games did you grow up playing?

It must be a new generation. I did notice all console games are not worth playing, The trend to make things so stupidly easy and trivial started about 6-8 years ago. Not sure when. I remember playing nintendo games where if you died 3 times at any point in the entire game .. you started over ...and you died by being touched by anything. 

If any of you guys want a trip down classic hard nintendo lane, just pick up the game Amazon and play it. I swear I couldn't get past the 3rd level on that blasted game. hehe

Originally posted by daeandor

Originally posted by qombi

I remember the first time I tried WoW after playing EQ for years. I remember thinking how a MMO couldn't get any easier, that they finally made a game for everyone to enjoy. Anyone could level to the end, there was small group dungeons for people with little time, and raids for people to enjoy on the weekend. I thought this is nice for a slower relaxed easy pace. And then I was dumbstruck to find people refering to WoW as a hard game, an elitest game, a game where only where hardcore goes.

Then WoW became trivial easy in the next two expansions. Too trivial for me to enjoy, I left. I couldn't believe it, MMOs got to the point where they have no challenge and excitement. I would rather watch a TV show rather than log in. Then came LOTRO .. I was dumbfounded once again the bar was again dropped. How much farther can you go before people quit of boredom? Then came Mines of Moria .. a game not only where the game is super easy but there is NO content for large groups.

The largest group is a meer what is it 12, to kill one little boss? The rest was little small group stuff and people still are calling that raiding? To me there isn't any raids in LOTRO, it is very easy to do everything in that game without trying, it takes no time to do it all as well. I think I want more from my online experience. I don't want a solo game that ends in a 3 -6 months? I would rather just buy a offline game to do that. 

Not saying that this is bad for everyone. I am saying I didn't really think it would get to this point where single player rpgs take more time then some MMOs and are more difficult. If you felt anything about lotro was difficult at any time point, I must ask what games did you grow up playing?

It must be a new generation. I did notice all console games are not worth playing, The trend to make things so stupidly easy and trivial started about 6-8 years ago. Not sure when. I remember playing nintendo games where if you died 3 times at any point in the entire game .. you started over ...and you died by being touched by anything. 

If any of you guys want a trip down classic hard nintendo lane, just pick up the game Amazon and play it. I swear I couldn't get past the 3rd level on that blasted game. hehe

 

It IS a generational thing mostly. Anyone over 30 can remember the pre internet/cell phone days. We are accustomed to having to work for things.

You can't blame kids for this. WE are the ones that created this for them.  We deserve the blame for pulp like WOW, Fall Out Boy and wearing your sisters jeans. It's ugly and insipid and your first reaction is to run and listen to your ELO records but now the damn kids have even co-opted those too. Vinyl is coming back!

Did you guys know that kids are wearing Members Only jackets? They took the worst of what we wore in the 80s and brought it back.

Other than that, I like the Lorien content a lot from what I've seen. But bah humbug to quest trackers!

I

Blame them for their music and fashion though. Holy crap.

I've got to admit here though, I still like LOTRO.  I'm mildly frustrated, but do find a lot of the content very cool.  Heck, I love just looking at what they put in the game vs what was in the books vs what was in the movies.  That makes the game fun to me.

I'm still disappointed in the hunter nerfs though...

Wow, i can tell alot of the posters here only read the patch notes, and have not tried the test server changes, becouse really, most of the opinions here are simply wrong and un informed.

It doesn't give you the exact spot, but puts an arrow guiding you to the general area. Just like when you enter a town, once you get to the general area, the arrow disappears. It points off the edge of the map until you get in the area then, when in that area, the location title, below the mini-map for the area, will strobe. It works this way for locate item quests as well as kill x of y type quests. Your main map can also be highlighted to select the general area for quests on your tracker, and there are icons on the main map showing where to turn in each quest when it is complete. Region quests point to the nearest part of that region until you get there. (Killing 10 boars is an example of a region quest.)

Below is an image of the map in the starter instance. You can see on it a blue icon with an X, and a pair of pale white circular highlights. The blue icon is used for single stationary targets (people, items, etc.), while the highlighted fields are used for targets that roam. Hovering your cursor over the quest name highlights its icon further, by turning the blue icon green, or brightening the white fields. Hovering over map areas displays the coordinates on the map that your cursor is pointing to (which display in the lower left corner).

Also, please note the checkbox for turning the system OFF. By unchecking it, the highlights and icons vanish, the box with quest names (which is movable like a window) as well. The map reverts back to the standard, aside from the running Coordinates display in the lower left.

On your radar, you can have a quest pointer active to point toward your goal. These usually activate automatically based on the most recent addition, though I think I've seen them switch automatically based on proximity to a goal. Regardless, if you're in or near an area for a quest, the location name with highlight in yellow, and hovering your cursor over it gives a readout of what quests you're near. You can also manually choose which quest pointer is active by the same method you remove listings from it: the ring on the side.

Overhead map won't show areas you haven't been to yet -- such as lonelands, where you haven't been to an area. The indicator on your min-map will point to the area but you won't get any markers or the like on the big map.

It will "automatically" flip to different quests. It works with only the quests you have up in your tracker (the 5 quests there) and will "psychically" flip to the closest quest to where you're at
 

Originally posted by jlayer2000

qombi,  you will be always be playing new mmos then, because every mmo that will ever come out will always make the beginning content easier in the game.  It is a formula that works and has been proven to work.  I don't know what to tell you other than you will always move to the next MMO coming out and never play a game continuously unless there is another aspect of the game you like.  I am not saying it is a bad thing, like myself, for example, I have play just about ever mmo out there (excluding most free ones) and ran into the same issues, but found other things in LotRO i liked. 

Plus this is mainly for beginning lvls, so what is the difference other than more higher lvls? Most people that are lvl 60 cannot play their toons to the fullest (or just flat out don't know how to play them). I am just curious how this changes anything for you at the higher lvls? just a question.

I play the game as a whole. I may be weird in the way I feel but if I don't like something that done to the game I don't enjoy playing it any longer. That includes out of place lore, game change mechanics etc. When I play a MMORPG it is a online world to me. If the world changes into something I don't agree with or don't enjoy, then I don't want to be a part of it.

Most of the time it will affect me though. In LOTRO for instances they changed classes and the way the game plays pretty drastically. It now feel more about how much dps everyone can do to win enounters. Also the last dungeons in lotro to me feel too easy now and there is only very small content, nothing for 10 - 25 people to enjoy except for a 20 minute one boss fight that honestly feels trivially easy.

I feel these games change for the worse and never for the better. They change the vision of classes, group dynamics, make things easier and easier, faster, more convenient. This doesn't only pertain to the beginning of the game, this is all the way through it. In WoW I enjoyed the original game but with the expansions camed drastic changes to the classes, group dynamics, stats, and the difficulty of encounters in a group or raid. The current version of WoW is horrible. There is no more challenge, CC is barely used, most everything is a big DPS fest ... where is the strategy?

Everquest the same thing happened. Lore got retarded in Luclin, made factions trivial with the introduction of the Pok, etc etc etc. The easiest way to explain it is, the original game of these current games isn't the same one in the end. That is how much these games change. Usaully the only thing that resembles the original game is the name and maybe some graphics. I personally think all MMOs should leave one original server intact for people who like the original game design and for history sake. The old classic single player games of the past can still be enjoyed with the original vision intact, they are the great games they were when they first became the hit. If they did have expansion packs, the original can be played without them.

Anyhow to tired to type coherently, I will leave it at that and hope that helps you understand.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Also, please note the checkbox for turning the system OFF. By unchecking it, the highlights and icons vanish, the box with quest names (which is movable like a window) as well. The map reverts back to the standard, aside from the running Coordinates display in the lower left.

I remember a time when people used things like game genie to make games easier. Now days you have to turn off the "game genie" features instead.

Hello. I'm new to both LOTRO and MMORPG.COM .

I thought finding stuff in LOTRO was unnecessarily hard and I'm glad those DevGuys found out how to smooth the ride to end game. I love that we get higher EXP and there are more quests that are easier to do alongside with the self-ress .

On my server, low-level content is more or less dead outside of the Prancing Pony weirdos  doing nerd-gasms  and I would never want to fall in with that crowd.

So I say thumbs up Devvies!!

HUGS!

@ qombi.

I also remember those days, I also played Everquest 1 & 2. The problem is that they never bonded me to the level that you talk about. I found Everquest 1 ridiculously difficult (Trains incoming!!!!!!!!!), I must admit those were fun days, running like hell, but the game was not fun it was (fun) work!

By definition people define fun in different ways, and for you I think something that is challenging is fun. For me something that is challenging is fun as well but I don't have the time to dedicate to a game at the more difficult level. I am currently playing Lotro and though it is easier I still die frequently and don't even compete in the 12 or 24 man instances because I don't have time.

I have a dedicated MMO friend who feels the same way as you do, we spoke about it over the weekend. He feels Lotro is too easy and he want more difficulty but yet when I asked him about the Balroc raid they failed multiple times, So there are still things he can strive towards.

I feel they must build a handicap system into your choice list so that you can change your degree of difficulty, I think they started doing it in Mines of Moria where some of the instances have difficulty settings to make it more of a challenge. Just imagine how much smaller Golf’s player base would be if it wasn’t for the handicap system (Yes cheaters/losers do use it to their exploit).

I for one love Lotro, some elements are easier but I still find it challenging enough and epic enough to be fun, I am glad about the coming changes, it might mean that I can spend some time with all the dedicated level 60 players for once, until the next level increase and then they all will just run ahead of me again.

I think we all must see the game in the context of the other players, some have lots of time others don't, Turbine is trying to cater for both camps and from the look of things the next book might add some things for the more dedicated players as well.

Yours Sincerely
Nictron