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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Do today's MMOs use reward systems to hide the fact that MMOs aren't fun?

9 posts found
  Z3R01

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/09/08
Posts: 2459

MMO gamer since 1997

 
OP  2/27/09 6:28:56 PM#1

Was on my hour lunch today talking to a buddy.  He's a rabid wow fanatic so were constantly bickering at each other with Eve vs WoW debates (it's all in fun).

Well today he was talking about Bgs and how when he gets home he needs to run bg's all night so he could get some type of ring reward or whatever.

I turn to him and ask him, If those Bgs didn't have a reward vendor attached to them would you still run them? He basically jumped from his seat "No Way man!!!! Why would I ever want to do a thing like that"

I asked him if he tought his battlegrounds were fun, in true rabid fan fashion he says "yeah they're the best ever, I love them" Yet this same guy wouldn't touch them if the reward vendor wasn't apart of the whole BG mechanic.

It makes me wonder, If todays mmo didn't offer that reward for everything you did would people consider them fun? would anyone bother? If mmos had dungeons without item drops would players still run them? Would players still run quests just for the fun of it if you got no Xp,items or currency?  would players utilize content just for the fun of doing them without rewards? Are mmos even fun?

Do todays MMOs use Rewards to hide the fact that MMOs aren't fun?

 

Edit: In before "But rewards are the fun!!!!!!"

Edit2: Before the wow fans die of a heart attack, im not just talking about wow, its just an example of today's mmos. no direct attack intended.

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  Capn23

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/03/08
Posts: 1577

"And that''s the way the cookie crumbles"

2/27/09 6:41:23 PM#2

Heh...it's not a matter of fun...it's a matter of motivation.

 

I'll use WAR as an example as it's what I'm currently playing.

 

I think we all can agree that big fights are pretty epic feeling and they don't get old all that fast.

 

Well the players have a chance to start epic wars with eachother and have a keep siege going all night long.

 

But instead...they avoid the fights. They'd rather RvE their way to the top and then grind and do whatever is necessary to get the best piece of armor in the game. They would rather skip all the content that is fun and go for the more 1337 armor.

 

They are playing it like a single player game that has a beginning and an end. The end is when they have their character in all the best armor.

 

So I'd say that yah...some of the stuff people just do as a grind, but we can't ignore that they also skip over the fun parts to get the shiney epic lootz. I think the problem is that people are so concerned about being the best that they forget what games are all about.

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  Tatum

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/07
Posts: 1154

2/27/09 6:44:29 PM#3

Yes.  But, I'd say that MMORPGs have always used rewards/progression/leveling to cover up the weak game play.  Can't really give the older MMOs a pass on this one, since they were very grindy as well. 

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13426

2/27/09 6:49:21 PM#4

A lot of games that aren't fun do try to use rewards to cover that up.  It is unfortunate that some people aren't sharp enough to see through that.

People ask whether doing this or that is “worth it”. There is a simple way to answer this: if you wouldn’t do it except for the drops or titles you get from it, then the answer is no. Playing a game that you fundamentally dislike for the sake of rewards that do not exist outside the game cannot be “worth it” in any sane sense.

  Josher

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 2836

2/27/09 8:00:58 PM#5

So MMOs used to be fun when there was no content and you had to kill 1000000 rats to level up?  And when you died, you lost everything, lost a level or lost EXP or they were FUN?  Oh please!!  Its hillarious when people say MMOs are a grind now.  NOW??  Were you paying attention back int eh late 90s and early 01, 02=)

 

MMOs always needed to motivate you to play.  The difference is, the motivation was far more tedious and pathetic back then.  Now its designed for people with social lives.  I know that burns some people up who's lives haven't changed since the olden days and expect people to still accept what we used to call a "game".

  Z3R01

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/09/08
Posts: 2459

MMO gamer since 1997

 
OP  2/27/09 8:21:33 PM#6
Originally posted by Josher

So MMOs used to be fun when there was no content and you had to kill 1000000 rats to level up?  And when you died, you lost everything, lost a level or lost EXP or they were FUN?  Oh please!!  Its hillarious when people say MMOs are a grind now.  NOW??  Were you paying attention back int eh late 90s and early 01, 02=)

 

MMOs always needed to motivate you to play.  The difference is, the motivation was far more tedious and pathetic back then.  Now its designed for people with social lives.  I know that burns some people up who's lives haven't changed since the olden days and expect people to still accept what we used to call a "game".

Was the Emo rage needed?

So you agree that Rewards hide the fact that mmos aren't fun, have sub par gameplay great.

Today's MMOs = any mmo thats out right now not just shit that came out after wow.

in my edit I even said my post wasn't only directed at Wow, not once did I say older MMOs didn't do the same thing.

Way to fly off the handle, take your meds please.

 

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  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13426

2/27/09 8:52:13 PM#7
Originally posted by Josher

So MMOs used to be fun when there was no content and you had to kill 1000000 rats to level up?  And when you died, you lost everything, lost a level or lost EXP or they were FUN?  Oh please!!  Its hillarious when people say MMOs are a grind now.  NOW??  Were you paying attention back int eh late 90s and early 01, 02=)

 

Yes, as a matter of fact, I was paying attention back then.  And you've highlighted the reasons why I wasn't playing those games.  Instead, I was playing Infantry and Europa Universalis II, neither of which are grinding games.  I didn't pick up MMORPGs until the grinding was lessened, and to this day, I won't touch most new releases because they're too grindy.

  nickelpat

Novice Member

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 662

"War isn''t about dieing for your country; It''s about making your enemy die for theirs." - G.Patton

2/27/09 9:08:16 PM#8

I must say, most do. Although I found few exceptions, mainly, Lord of The Rings Online. The rewards don't make a whole ton of difference, and you never see people grinding anything for gear and gear only. It's more a byproduct than anything. MPvP offers very little reward, and yet people do it a lot. Little minigames in it, like Freeze Tag, offer no reward except some great fun. So, since gear isn't a thing all the players are after, and they don't really... care... It's not used to cover up bad gameplay in my opinion.

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  Routver

Novice Member

Joined: 12/21/08
Posts: 378

2/27/09 9:12:11 PM#9

As I see it, instant gratification is a way of pleasing players fast, covering shallow mechanics (like WoW's PvP in your example where the guy didn't really enjoy battlegrounds but rather did them for shiny stuff), but work really fine to keep people entertained/busy. It's like a kid getting his new toy,  before obtaining it you can be sure he was dreaming about it, best toy ever, and yadda yadda. Days after? He'll barely play with it, and will be looking for a new toy to dribble about.

WoW did that with success because of expansions, even if the previously uber gear gets obsolete and this may irritate some players, they can still dream about the next tier crap or whatever it is, giving a "fresh" approach even if it means just another piece of equipment making your toon godlike. What is it called again? Carrot-on-a-stick I guess.