MMORPG.com managing editor Jon Wood recently got the chance to check out the new Mission Architect system for NCsoft's City of Heroes. Today, he shares his opinion of the system.

As I mentioned in the "Mission Architect System Overview" article, I recently had the chance to get my hands on City of Heroes' foray into the world of user generated content, the soon-to-be-released Architect System that allows players to create missions. As a result of getting to spend a day with the new system, I thought I'd share my opinions of it and offer you folks a review:

First, I simply can not say enough good things about the idea of MMOs integrating user-generated content into their games. In a world where the popularity of services like YouTube, Facebook and Myspace (services based almost entirely on user generated content), is hitting an all-time high and changing the way that we communicate and socialize, it was only a matter of time before MMOs found a way to put that user desire to build and contribute to good use.

Read the Mission Architect Review

This could very well get me back into CoH/CoV at least until Champions comes out.

I LOVE this idea and if it is done well could change the whole gaming world, the biggest problem game developers have is getting enough content. If they let their own fans creat much of that content that frees up resources to be used on improving the base game.

Sure 95% of the content will be garbage, but with the voting system and the devs pick systems they should be able to filter out most of the junk.

Even if it doesnt work, I am very glad to see a company trying this.

"First, I simply can not say enough good things about the idea of MMOs integrating user-generated content into their games. In a world where the popularity of services like YouTube, Facebook and Myspace (services based almost entirely on user generated content), is hitting an all-time high and changing the way that we communicate and socialize, it was only a matter of time before MMOs found a way to put that user desire to build and contribute to good use."

Ryzom Ring

I guess the Writer wasn't aware of the Ring.

I don't see where he said CoX was the first or the only.  Just that he couldn't say enough good things about MMO's doing that.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

 

"First, I simply can not say enough good things about the idea of MMOs integrating user-generated content into their games. In a world where the popularity of services like YouTube, Facebook and Myspace (services based almost entirely on user generated content), is hitting an all-time high and changing the way that we communicate and socialize, it was only a matter of time before MMOs found a way to put that user desire to build and contribute to good use."

Ryzom Ring

 

I guess the Writer wasn't aware of the Ring.

Yep, I'm aware of Ryzom Ring. The problem is, shortly after that, the game went under (yes, I am also aware of the game's resurgance).

I didn't say CoH was by any means the first to do it.

That's understandable, i just like pointing out where innovations usually come from, Indi, niche based games. Reading your article... CoX seems to have someone that looked very closely at the Ryzom ring.

Would have been nice for you to give a shout out to the Ryzom people.
 

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

 

That's understandable, i just like pointing out where innovations usually come from, Indi, niche based games. Reading your article... CoX seems to have someone that looked very closely at the Ryzom ring.

Would have been nice for you to give a shout out to the Ryzom people.
 

 

This wasn't a review of Ryzom Ring. I saw no reason to bring it up.

By the way, what makes you so sure that the developers were heavily influenced by RR? In fact, there are some striking differences beween the two.

Ryzom ring, for example, made use of pathing and specific creature placement. Architect doesn't. RR didn't allow the level of specific mob customization as Architect. Ring, as I recall, was also an outside program and didn't run inside the game proper (though I could be wrong about that).

So, if by there is something that allows plaeyrs to make quests... yes, they're similar in concept.

I'm not taking anything away from Ryzom Ring, or Ryzom in general, but what I'm saying is that I don't think that one is derivative of the other.

This http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/36/view/reviews/load/46/from/%2Ffeatures.cfm%2Fview%2Freviews/Ryzom-Ring-Review.html is a Ryzom Ring Review.

Well, of course each game is different, and required different implementations, but the structure is the ring. Not having used the CoX version, i do think that the ring (based on your review) is a more robust system, with more features and options.

As far as NPC's:

I'm not trying to detract from each version eather, but your article does, to me atleast read as if this is the first time somthing like this has been done. I just wanted to point out, that ryzom has had such a system for quite a while now.

I just think that Ryzom (and other non AAA games) always get overlooked around here. There are two hugely innovative systems in Ryzom, that are beginning to influence other, more mainstream, MMO's

I did not mean you had to review Ryzom, but a mention that this sort of system has been seen before would have been good.

Damn it yet another review that has piqued my interest in another MMO that I used to play.

I resubscribed on the strength of this going  live in the last big update and was bitterly disappointed that it didn't make it, yet I also understood that they needed more time to get it right, still didn't stop me from cancelling though until it made it into another update.

I am looking forward to creating some content that will hopefully be enjoyed by many ppl.

 PS can we try to keep it on topic now, I believe a shout did go out to Ryzom now, lets get back to what the review was about and not the issue of what other game came up with the idea first, lets just be happy that it has been picked up and used within another MMO so that more players can use such a wonderful tool.

PPS not wanting to ofc take anything away from Ryzom

The one thing that seems to be missing and what CoX really needs is the ability to make mission maps. The thing that made me drop CoX was that every mission feels the same.

Sure the maps are random. But there are a limited number of room types and they have strict rules for how rooms connect (I.E. a Hall segment tends to connect 2 big rooms, never to another hall segment). And inside the rooms mobs are always placed the same way. No matter who you are fighting.

I had really hoped this would allow us to construct the maps and place the mobs. I can see how that could be abused but it also would make much better missions. IMHO.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Well, of course each game is different, and required different implementations, but the structure is the ring. Not having used the CoX version, i do think that the ring (based on your review) is a more robust system, with more features and options.

 

As far as NPC's:

 

I'm not trying to detract from each version eather, but your article does, to me atleast read as if this is the first time somthing like this has been done. I just wanted to point out, that ryzom has had such a system for quite a while now.

 

I just think that Ryzom (and other non AAA games) always get overlooked around here. There are two hugely innovative systems in Ryzom, that are beginning to influence other, more mainstream, MMO's

I did not mean you had to review Ryzom, but a mention that this sort of system has been seen before would have been good.

I'm not taking anything away fro Ryzom. I'm telling you that nowhere in my article does it make the claim that City of Heroes was the first to do this. I'm sorry if you took it that way, but it simply doesn't say that.

As far as Ryzom goes, we have covered Ryzom. There are no less than three reviews of the game on the site, including one on Ryzom Ring. I also remember writing about Ryzom Ring when I had a hands-on back when that product was news. It had its day in the sun, and now it's Architect's turn.

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Well, of course each game is different, and required different implementations, but the structure is the ring. Not having used the CoX version, i do think that the ring (based on your review) is a more robust system, with more features and options.

 

As far as NPC's:

 

I'm not trying to detract from each version eather, but your article does, to me atleast read as if this is the first time somthing like this has been done. I just wanted to point out, that ryzom has had such a system for quite a while now.

 

I just think that Ryzom (and other non AAA games) always get overlooked around here. There are two hugely innovative systems in Ryzom, that are beginning to influence other, more mainstream, MMO's

I did not mean you had to review Ryzom, but a mention that this sort of system has been seen before would have been good.

I'm not taking anything away fro Ryzom. I'm telling you that nowhere in my article does it make the claim that City of Heroes was the first to do this. I'm sorry if you took it that way, but it simply doesn't say that.

As far as Ryzom goes, we have covered Ryzom. There are no less than three reviews of the game on the site, including one on Ryzom Ring. I also remember writing about Ryzom Ring when I had a hands-on back when that product was news. It had its day in the sun, and now it's Architect's turn.

It was right here:

"It would be difficult to argue that this feature isn't an innovative and interesting addition to the five year old game. Overall, I found it to be easy to use, well thought out, and well implemented, pretty much all that you can ask from a major system like this. I have honestly thought for a long time that user created content is the future of MMOs. Where two of the biggest complaints that I hear about MMOs are the fact that there isn't enough content and that people don't feel that their characters contribute enough to a living world, I can't think of a better way to address both concerns than allowing characters to generate their own quests.

Mission Architect is a bold step toward future implementation of features like this in other MMOs, and while there are still some elements missing (full implementation into the game world, fully customizable maps and placeable objects and mobs, and the like), I think that the end product, even with those issues, stays true to the overall spirit of the game."
 

Ryzom even has some of the features you say are missing. Again, i'm not fighting you on this..... both systems are a good thing. But technically, Ryzom was that bold step, even in the face of shutting down.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

It was right here:

"It would be difficult to argue that this feature isn't an innovative and interesting addition to the five year old game. Overall, I found it to be easy to use, well thought out, and well implemented, pretty much all that you can ask from a major system like this. I have honestly thought for a long time that user created content is the future of MMOs. Where two of the biggest complaints that I hear about MMOs are the fact that there isn't enough content and that people don't feel that their characters contribute enough to a living world, I can't think of a better way to address both concerns than allowing characters to generate their own quests.

Mission Architect is a bold step toward future implementation of features like this in other MMOs, and while there are still some elements missing (full implementation into the game world, fully customizable maps and placeable objects and mobs, and the like), I think that the end product, even with those issues, stays true to the overall spirit of the game."
 

Ryzom even has some of the features you say are missing. Again, i'm not fighting you on this..... both systems are a good thing. But technically, Ryzom was that bold step, even in the face of shutting down.

Look, I'm done arguing with you. Read whatever it is you want into the wording.

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

It was right here:

"It would be difficult to argue that this feature isn't an innovative and interesting addition to the five year old game. Overall, I found it to be easy to use, well thought out, and well implemented, pretty much all that you can ask from a major system like this. I have honestly thought for a long time that user created content is the future of MMOs. Where two of the biggest complaints that I hear about MMOs are the fact that there isn't enough content and that people don't feel that their characters contribute enough to a living world, I can't think of a better way to address both concerns than allowing characters to generate their own quests.

Mission Architect is a bold step toward future implementation of features like this in other MMOs, and while there are still some elements missing (full implementation into the game world, fully customizable maps and placeable objects and mobs, and the like), I think that the end product, even with those issues, stays true to the overall spirit of the game."
 

Ryzom even has some of the features you say are missing. Again, i'm not fighting you on this..... both systems are a good thing. But technically, Ryzom was that bold step, even in the face of shutting down.

Look, I'm done arguing with you. Read whatever it is you want into the wording.

Whos arguing? Dude, i think you have been on thies forums to long. The wording was kinda clear though.

EDIT: Now cross linked articles are citing you as a source for saying that this is the first time its happened in MMO's.

It might have been good practice to name, and contrast, existing systems for MMOs using player generated content with CoH's architect.  Ryzom's the original and comparing feature sets might have given us all a good idea for how each, respectively, worked and what improvements could be made in future systems.

I'm fairly partial to SWG's Storyteller system myself if mainly as a consumer.   We've gone on adventures spanning worlds, involving specially crafted locales and "voice over" narratives with actual juke-box provided soundtracks playing.   ST also lets a designer make a master copy of a template and sell one-shot copies of a layout or entire adventure to other players.  Event coordinators use the heck out of SWG's Storyteller too.

Check this out.  Our guys went on a hunt to capture a Krayt Dragon to be sacrificed in a Trandoshan ritual.  The first link shows the adventurers getting into the action at a player city and then trekking through the Wastelands where we encounter a player-run ambush by Tuskens and a big climactic battle with the Krayt itself.

http://guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=70851&ForumID=327664&TabID=613052&Replies=5&TopicID=7868193

And the next day the ceremony goes down at the player city.  Check out all the player Storyteller placed decorations.  Fireworks.  Duelling beasts. 

http://guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=70851&ForumID=327664&TabID=613052&Replies=3&TopicID=7871107

Pretty neat stuff, no?  The grey-haired Mandash person is me.

Next I've got some questions about Architect but I'll stick 'em in a seperate post.

One of the big problems with SWG's Storyteller is the lack of ability to "puppeteer" NPCs and get them to do emotes and dialogue you want.  What kind of narrative control does a mission creator have over what goes on in architect?  Can NPCs speak?  Can you put together conversation trees with various outcomes?   Can an Architect 'embody' an NPC and play him like a character inside the confines of an adventure or do these things just run themselves automatically?

What kind of things can you stick in an adventure other than presumably hostile NPCs?  Can there be friendlies?  Neutrals?  Events (like explosions or electrical surges)?  Can you craft your own soundtrack that will play?

I don't know about the rest of the people here, but I could care less who implimented this idea first.

I am sure many game developers have thought about putting tools in their users hands to allow them to create content. Heck FPS games have been doing it for years.

Maybe we should give credit for this idea to ID for the level editor in Doom. After all that allowed players to make content and publish it.

Who cares? Me I just am glad to see it added to CoX.

I too agree that it is nice to see some type of user content creation being fed to an MMO.  As for where it originated, I could care less.  I care that it is in a game that I have interest in. 

I will now wait for it to go live and then resub to see how much I like it.  Yes the lack of some map editing and npc placement is a lil' down side, but I want to see how it all comes together as a finished product before I am too harsh on that aspect.

Cheers to NCsoft.

I am with Slackerboy on this one. The review isn't about the history of how a system came into existence or which was best or whatever. I really don't care Ryzom is the first but I am interested in this Architect system and objective info. on other systems that are similar and that is why I clicked the link to read and discuss this system. Not to listen to people who feel hurt cause their game was not recognized as the first one ever to use such a system.
 

The idea of adding music to a level you make would be awesome and a good way to build atmosphere and I believe you can use your own dialog trees in npc speech but I could be wrong.

I might have missed this but did they have a release date for this update?

The only release date I heard was "soon".

However as this is still in internal beta, not even on the test server. I would bet a month or more before we see it on live servers.

I say let them take the time they need, get it right then release. I really hate bugs. (Makes one wonder why I do so many betas)

This is something that I  really want to use.  They probable will time it to come out just before Champions does.  =)

Its not like other MMOs are going to look at CoH and design their own system to model this one....

One of the most innovative things ever created in MMOs was the Entertainer Profession in Star Wars Galaxies, has it ever been gleamed into another MMO? Nope.

MMOs are too busy trying to model themselves after World of Warcraft, they don't look at OTHER MMOs.....

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

EDIT: Now cross linked articles are citing you as a source for saying that this is the first time its happened in MMO's.

 

Then they are citing me wrong. Where is this happening?

User generated content is definitely the future of MMO's been said for years following Ryzom's excellent application of the Ryzom Ring

Imagine the drop in developer costs, when players ARE your development team

My god may the revolution begin already PLS!!! And stop churning out this silver spoon fed WoWesque CRAP!

And to be honest a small mention of the idea first being PIONEERED and INNOVATIVE in Ryzom would have pushed the article much further in the educated and informed direction

The article does read like CoH was the first MMO to devise this

Don't shoot me though I don't play Ryzom just it does this User Generated Content idea ALOT better than CoH has

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Originally posted by Slackerboy
The one thing that seems to be missing and what CoX really needs is the ability to make mission maps. The thing that made me drop CoX was that every mission feels the same.
Sure the maps are random. But there are a limited number of room types and they have strict rules for how rooms connect (I.E. a Hall segment tends to connect 2 big rooms, never to another hall segment). And inside the rooms mobs are always placed the same way. No matter who you are fighting.
 
I had really hoped this would allow us to construct the maps and place the mobs. I can see how that could be abused but it also would make much better missions. IMHO.

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Seconded. I have yet to get a look at it, but as an avid writer I am drooling with anticipation. I have already scheduled the summer off classes. :P