I've been playing MMO's for years and have had numerous discussions from friends from other MMO's and we've all decided that the social element of gaming today is not what i was 10 years ago. I think the most extreme example of it  was when WAR was first released.  Nobody spoke, nobody grouped, yada yada. Eventually a small bit of conversation entered the fray.  I can say it started post WoW release thats for sure but from a chatty kathy perspected WOW has some busy general spam, mostly young kids. That type of chatter doesn't interest most mature gamers.  So we turn general off.

Wow presented the world with the first EASY MODE mmo. Never have to group if you choose not to. No benefit whatsoever to grouping.  I think when you look back , yes games had some grind factor but you needed people to achieve goals. This is not to say you couldn't solo because we could but it wasn't very efficient if you were looking for high yield expereince gains. DAOC as an example paid a bonus to group experiencing.

With no reason to group there is no reason to talk or start up new conversations/friendships. I think thats as much to blame as well as game formats being uninteresting and stale. We keep playing the same game over and over but it takes little to no effort these days. So i ask where is the future in MMO's.  It's the social element that keeps subs being paid up much more then game content so why do devs continually focus on easy non group orientated . I and many game friends have went back to play older MMO's and even those seem to be the dead social scene games just like today's games. I see the MMO industry today pretty much the same as the movie industry. They keep remaking old successful movies which generally suck in comparison to the originals without creating new imaginative concepts/storylines.

The next great MMO will put the social element ahead of storyline. I know for a fact that i probably played certain games for a year or two longer then i would have had it not had the social element. Your thoughts?

There are a few newer games that have released that do cater to grouping. Vanguard for instance. Sure you can solo but group play is where its at there. But overall I completely agree. Most games these days have little to no social value. Queing up for scenarios nonstop in WAR really made you no friends. The content in the game overall except for Public quests were almost all soloable. and Even the Public Quests people would randomly team up with you finish the Public Quest and then run off and alot of times wouldnt even say hello in the process. A few of the people would.

Its almost like the more the games become Quest Oriented the more people only care about completing their quests. Older games like EQ and DAoC where people would actually enjoy battling mobs in Camps or whatnot and enjoy each others companies built friendships. Most the newer games you dont have that.

Another Problem Post wow is PUGS... PUGS used to be acceptable and WOW pretty much ruined that. No one wants to PUG anymore except for maybe in Vanguard, where people actually know how to work as a team. When they made the games so soloable. People seemed to forget how to be group friendly.

Just like everything else that goes wrong with the world. Blame the worlds

#1 lying scumbag Smedley!

-Promoted soloing in MMO like WoW by letting any class solo to max lvl.

-Multiboxing that creeped into many MMO without enough willingness to stop it.

-A younger demographic of players who don't have the attention span to form bigger groups or raids.

Well MMOs are no longer limited to the nerdy niche that inhabited them earlier, now more regular gamers play them, most of which have no desire to play the game to make friends.

I don't think newer MMOs are easier though, since there was nothing really hard about the older ones they just forced you to group to do anything in a timely manner and even then took forever to go places and level.  But going back to the group heavy focus won't make the communities like ye olde MMOs because there is no going back.  Your best bet is to find a really niche game, like Ryzom, which is unknown and unappealing to a wider audience, if you like the game then you will probably like the community because it is comprised of people who think like you.

I don't think WoW has a bad community, it just has a particular style, particularly for those people that like Chuck Norris jokes and visit 4chan.  Exclusion makes the best communities, when people that all think similarly get together to do something they tend to enjoy themselves more. 

It does seem to be very much more difficult to socialize in games anymore and I think you've nailed some good reasons. Smacktalking juvenile pinheads with egos the size of planetary bodies and the general "in your face" attitude with so many people these days you don't dare even make an innocuous typo in chat anymore or risk having some sociopathic psycho busting your balls for twenty minutes over it. The general nature of chat anymore is a minefield and it almost requires an act of will to engage in chat on a general channel or to even make small-talk with someone I don't know because I'm so friggin tired of argumentative 8 year olds with attitudes stalking the chats looking for someone to jump on.

Many games are now condensing the available number of charcters you can enter into a single chat response for a couple reasons but I almost believe the main reason is to make it more difficult for ranters to go off in chat. Perhaps that's only wishful thinking on my part though. It's so bad in so many games now that many people just won't engage in conversations anymore. Chat can be extremely confusing and oftimes it's due to the fact that you cannot see facial expressions, hear the tone of voice or read body language, hence the introduction of typed emotes ( =), 8), >:-[ etc) and smilies to ease that issue but it rarely helps with the psychos.

I'll play some games (depending on the ferocity of the general community) for months without saying a word. Who wants to argue with someone over some of the stupidist shit you can imagine when all you're there for is some fun... but then some jokers think it's IS the fun. You'll even see some of this behavior in this thread before too long. It never fails. There is no longer (or very rarely) any respect for the opinions of others anymore and namecalling and insults have become the accepted method of arguing a point which is the mentality that mature players thought they left behind in early high school. Unfortunately the age requirements (ESRB Ratings) mean very little in reality so there ya go... adolescent behavior is free to follow you almost anywhere and a psycho is a psycho is a psycho and they buy/play games too. It's just less of a kick in the head to forego the socializing and avoid them entirely (if possible) and have as much fun as the game allows without having to see "1337" insullts to your mother after answering a question.

Originally posted by Kartuhn

It does seem to be very much more difficult to socialize in games anymore and I think you've nailed some good reasons. Smacktalking juvenile pinheads with egos the size of planetary bodies and the general "in your face" attitude with so many people these days you don't dare even make an innocuous typo in chat anymore or risk having some sociopathic psycho busting your balls for twenty minutes over it. The general nature of chat anymore is a minefield and it almost requires an act of will to engage in chat on a general channel or to even make small-talk with someone I don't know because I'm so friggin tired of argumentative 8 year olds with attitudes stalking the chats looking for someone to jump on.

Many games are now condensing the available number of charcters you can enter into a single chat response for a couple reasons but I almost believe the main reason is to make it more difficult for ranters to go off in chat. Perhaps that's only wishful thinking on my part though. It's so bad in so many games now that many people just won't engage in conversations anymore. Chat can be extremely confusing and oftimes it's due to the fact that you cannot see facial expressions, hear the tone of voice or read body language, hence the introduction of typed emotes ( =), 8), >:-[ etc) and smilies to ease that issue but it rarely helps with the psychos.

I'll play some games (depending on the ferocity of the general community) for months without saying a word. Who wants to argue with someone over some of the stupidist shit you can imagine when all you're there for is some fun... but then some jokers think it's IS the fun. You'll even see some of this behavior in this thread before too long. It never fails. There is no longer (or very rarely) any respect for the opinions of others anymore and namecalling and insults have become the accepted method of arguing a point which is the mentality that mature players thought they left behind in early high school. Unfortunately the age requirements (ESRB Ratings) mean very little in reality so there ya go... adolescent behavior is free to follow you almost anywhere and a psycho is a psycho is a psycho and they buy/play games too. It's just less of a kick in the head to forego the socializing and avoid them entirely (if possible) and have as much fun as the game allows without having to see "1337" insullts to your mother after answering a question.

somone actually nail the thing LOL I was going to rant it to high gear on these point.

EXACTLY what ruined it. Thanks for saving my fingers!

 I've thought about this myself actually.  I've been playing MMO's for a number of years, and the last year or two I've really had trouble getting into any that I tried.  Daoc was my first, and as of yet I still haven't found an MMO thats held my interest in any way compared to it.

And I think a large part for me atleast is the whole lack of any real social feel.  Too often I feel like I'm playing a single player game.  WAR is a perfect example.  I was so hoping for a Daoc 2, but was severely disappointed in how fast I lost interest in the game.  Now Im not going to go into whether this at all indicative of the state of the game, but I know that for the most part I just got bored playing by myself.  In Daoc it wasn't until the implementation of the Necromancer that you could really solo to end game by yourself.  And this is before the whole WoW Easy button quests, so really it just left finding a group and grinding.  And I know for my own part, most of the fun in the game is finding the right group of people to come play with every night, and adventure through the game together.  Nice graphics and end game content are all swell, but its not the idea of being the stat-maxed player that kept me coming back to play, it was just the fun with people around me. 

And as much as I hate to say this, I wouldnt mind seeing a return to more group oriented grind it out games.  Maybe its just nostalgia, but Im pretty sure unless you force people to start interacting together, the community factor of MMO's is gonna continue to feel kind of empty.

i blame questing for teh downfall of socialization. you have to be on the same quest as anyone else you might want to group with these days... it's no longer a matter of just going to some spot and grinding some mobs for hours with the same people and talking to lighten the grind.

Originally posted by dirtyklingon

i blame questing for teh downfall of socialization. you have to be on the same quest as anyone else you might want to group with these days... it's no longer a matter of just going to some spot and grinding some mobs for hours with the same people and talking to lighten the grind.

Interesting if you really like to grind and have very few quests Requiem may be your kind of game. I play it yet even though I bitch on the board here a little. Requiem is a grind past level 40 and it gets really grindy around level 65 since there are NO quests at all after 64. I found that a group did more killing and less talking than anything though. The group seldom broke rhythm and if you did afk maybe someone would mention next grind spot.

Only way I ever found to get a great social life in game was a good guild and good guilds are hard to find sometimes.

The only reason noone socializes in MMOs anymore is because you don't have to.  In older MMOs you HAD to party the majority of the time.  In DAoC you spent hours and hours in the frontiers in a group defending keeps and attacking your enemies.  In FFXI you almost always had to get into a group to do just about anything.  These two games had some of the best communites and social guilds ever.

In particular, in the two games above, if you pissed people off you were never going to get anywhere.  You relied on grouping, so you had to play nice and help each other.  In the newer generation of MMOs you never have to group at all except in the end game (just for raids).  This causes players to be rather abrasive and childish.  "If I never have to rely on anyone to get things done, why go through the pleasantries of being nice?"  You never really had a problem of 'ninja' looting, spawn camping, etc. in the older games because of this.

Forcing people to group and make friends is a good way to make players police themselves.  Atlantica Online is a good example.  Although you rarely ever have to group, you almost always want to since you get so many bonuses for grouping.  This also leads to friendships and about 99% of the population being helpful and nice.

Basically, if you force people to party to do things in groups, the nicer everyone will be.

I agree with the OP completely.  After the new wears off of an MMO the only thing that keeps me going is the community and the friends you meet.  It's hard to get into new friendships if no one talks.  I would like to see more people being social.

Originally posted by Gravarg

The only reason noone socializes in MMOs anymore is because you don't have to.  In older MMOs you HAD to party the majority of the time.  In DAoC you spent hours and hours in the frontiers in a group defending keeps and attacking your enemies.  In FFXI you almost always had to get into a group to do just about anything.  These two games had some of the best communites and social guilds ever.

 

In particular, in the two games above, if you pissed people off you were never going to get anywhere.  You relied on grouping, so you had to play nice and help each other.  In the newer generation of MMOs you never have to group at all except in the end game (just for raids).  This causes players to be rather abrasive and childish.  "If I never have to rely on anyone to get things done, why go through the pleasantries of being nice?"  You never really had a problem of 'ninja' looting, spawn camping, etc. in the older games because of this.

 

Forcing people to group and make friends is a good way to make players police themselves.  Atlantica Online is a good example.  Although you rarely ever have to group, you almost always want to since you get so many bonuses for grouping.  This also leads to friendships and about 99% of the population being helpful and nice.

 

Basically, if you force people to party to do things in groups, the nicer everyone will be.

I am not going to totally disagree here.  I played DAoC for almost 6 years. It was a great game and I do have my days when I miss the friends there in fact I resubbed a couple months ago and it has changed. In the early days of the game they had a lot of group centric stuff but solo was not unheard of either. I played a hunter and shadowblade and in the frontiers my missions were clearly not to be grouped. They also had another aspect that I think has changed. People were not as abrasive as today.  DAoC has changed  people are much more adapt to rip you for simple shit rather than to pass on it.  Todays Internet has change as compared to the past. The more anonymous the people feel they are the more of an asshat they tend to be.

Originally posted by dirtyklingon

i blame questing for teh downfall of socialization. you have to be on the same quest as anyone else you might want to group with these days... it's no longer a matter of just going to some spot and grinding some mobs for hours with the same people and talking to lighten the grind.

Agreed. Slower leveling, very few quests and harder soloing/less effecient soloing made the community stronger in the end.

Combat style has changed over time as well. In EQ1 it was easier to carry a conversation while in combat. Nowdays with all the ability and spell timers in different games you have to pay more attention to what you are doing. Chatting between all the button presses is more difficult.

Originally posted by Slaynn

I agree with the OP completely.  After the new wears off of an MMO the only thing that keeps me going is the community and the friends you meet.  It's hard to get into new friendships if no one talks.  I would like to see more people being social.

The friends I have made over the years in the games I've played have been the backbone of why I stuck around even after the gameplay went sour in some. Good friends in a game, just as in real life, make all the difference and I too wish there was more socializing in games. In my earlier post here (#6 of this thread) I've described why I don't hold much hope for it however. Even when I enter a game with a noteworthy community that has been raved about here at MMORPG.com and other sites, I am still reluctant to stick my toe in the water due to past experiences and it really puts the brakes on making friends.

Until there is a "Fry Offenders Computer" option in the UI of most games out there little will change because as someone said... "there is no need to go through the pleasantries of being nice anymore" because there are ZERO consequences for being a total asshat. Being nice isn't a requirement of gaming but neither is being a complete (expletive here) however being a complete (expletive here) has a profound negative impact on any games social climate and fewer people even care to attempt socializing as each year passes.

MMOs are now just a forum where the disenfranchised, angry, anti-social people raise hell with other players as offensively as possible because they are immune to recieving a well deserved punch in the mouth. And, having SAID that, I do believe I hear the irreverant typing of an oversized e-peen who will inevitably write, "I'd like to see you punch ME in the mouth!" knowing full well that it won't happen and no one will ever truly know if he's really 6'10", 245lbs of pure shredded muscle and eats live babies, diapers and all, for breakfast or if I'm truly capable of knocking the attitude right out of him. You see how infectious a bad attitude is? Even I am becomming angry and anti-social becuse of the attitudes and complete disrespect that infects so many game communities and I'm not at all happy with that  and since I can do nothing about it I avoid socializing in games because it just puts a target on your back if only for a moment at a time.

Whatever element of MMO games can be blamed for being the catalyst for this it is rooted in human nature and not at all any games fault.

Originally posted by Kartuhn

Originally posted by Slaynn

I agree with the OP completely.  After the new wears off of an MMO the only thing that keeps me going is the community and the friends you meet.  It's hard to get into new friendships if no one talks.  I would like to see more people being social.

 

The friends I have made over the years in the games I've played have been the backbone of why I stuck around even after the gameplay went sour in some. Good friends in a game, just as in real life, make all the difference and I too wish there was more socializing in games. In my earlier post here (#6 of this thread) I've described why I don't hold much hope for it however. Even when I enter a game with a noteworthy community that has been raved about here at MMORPG.com and other sites, I am still reluctant to stick my toe in the water due to past experiences and it really puts the brakes on making friends.

Until there is a "Fry Offenders Computer" option in the UI of most games out there little will change because as someone said... "there is no need to go through the pleasantries of being nice anymore" because there are ZERO consequences for being a total asshat. Being nice isn't a requirement of gaming but neither is being a complete (expletive here) however being a complete (expletive here) has a profound negative impact on any games social climate and fewer people even care to attempt socializing as each year passes.

MMOs are now just a forum where the disenfranchised, angry, anti-social people raise hell with other players as offensively as possible because they are immune to recieving a well deserved punch in the mouth. And, having SAID that, I do believe I hear the irreverant typing of an oversized e-peen who will inevitably write, "I'd like to see you punch ME in the mouth!" knowing full well that it won't happen and no one will ever truly know if he's really 6'10", 245lbs of pure shredded muscle and eats live babies, diapers and all, for breakfast or if I'm truly capable of knocking the attitude right out of him. You see how infectious a bad attitude is? Even I am becomming angry and anti-social becuse of the attitudes and complete disrespect that infects so many game communities and I'm not at all happy with that  and since I can do nothing about it I avoid socializing in games because it just puts a target on your back if only for a moment at a time.

Whatever element of MMO games can be blamed for being the catalyst for this it is rooted in human nature and not at all any games fault.

Well said.  In the past the community was tight knit and if someone was an asshole the players would blacklist that individual and dish out some 'street justice'.  Now when people are offensive it's normal.  Sometimes it's even applauded and encouraged.
 

On a side note I have been impressed by the Fallen Earth community so far.  It's the pre-release community and we all know things change after release but it is promising.

You know what just dawned on me may actually be the reason the games have taken a turn on the social aspect. Back in the early days of the game industry a GM was always on and chatting or watching for players that were offensive. They give a warning and the the boot to anyone that was not playing nice.

think about that a minute old timers.

What is missing in todays MMOs?

GMs

Originally posted by demc

You know what just dawned on me may actually be the reason the games have taken a turn on the social aspect. Back in the early days of the game industry a GM was always on and chatting or watching for players that were offensive. They give a warning and the the boot to anyone that was not playing nice.

 

think about that a minute old timers.

 

What is missing in todays MMOs?

 

GMs

Good point and perhaps dead on the money. The last game I played that actually had real GMs who actively enforced behavioral problems was Anarchy Online and as good as they were it was still up to the person or persons offended to make a complaint and copy/paste the chat log in private discussion with the GM. You're right about active GMs monitoring chat and I miss those days. I remember laughing when I would see someone go off in chat like they do these days because you KNEW it was all over for the bozo and the weeds were never allowed to grow and choke out the social landscape of the games.

Edit: One game currently using GMs is Perfect World International and they actively monitor World chat although the rules are very lax by comparrison to the "good old days". Still, they do a good job and the community is A+. Could be a sign that your thought is quite correct.

    I think you guys have hit on quite a few things that have contributed....One thing I know has really changed it is that there isnt much downtime in games anymore........When I started in EQ1 back in 2000 there was alot of downtime.......Now combine downtime with group play and you will have more chat.........Solo quests and no downtime have really hurt the genre no doubt, at least from a social perspective........