Originally posted by Lobotomist

Instanced PVP destroyed multimillion title that was simply destined to overthrow WOW : Warhammer Online

Going same route will make a bad joke out of JGE.

 

NetDevil allready made a game that tanked after mere year...you thought they would smarten up....

Perhaps they did learn... Open PvP is NOT what the majority of players want.  Warhammer was never destined to be a WoW killer. At this point in time, thats just not possible. The only threat WoW has is Blizzard at this point.

Warhammer has many problems. I'd not count instanced PvP as one of them.

Originally posted by Wraithone

Perhaps they did learn... Open PvP is NOT what the majority of players want.  Warhammer was never destined to be a WoW killer. At this point in time, thats just not possible. The only threat WoW has is Blizzard at this point.

Warhammer has many problems. I'd not count instanced PvP as one of them.

Yea, WAR was never going dethrone WoW, and the Mythic knew it.
The biggest problem was with WAR is that it's PvE was boring and took a back seat to Scenarios.
Scenarios ended up being the best way to Level and Gear up, making the Open World feel empty.
This made oRvR a Joke.

Oh, and there is no such thing as a "WoW killer", but it with be dethrone in time...
Just Like WoW didn't kill EQ, it just replaced it as king of the hill.

I think WAR's tier 1 scenarios were excellent. Gates of Ekrund and Nordenwatch were a lot better than the WoW battlegrounds, IMO. The quality of the scenarios decrease significantly as you progress through the tiers, however. Already at tier 2 I feel the scenarios are noticably worse/untested than WoW's BGs. Reikland Factory was awesome, though.

Reikland Factory wasn't in the game when I played.
I only played for 2 months, when the game 1st launch.
Nordenwatch and Gates of Ekrund from Tier 1 were fun.
I really enjoyed Mourkain Temple in tier 2.
In Tier 3 the only scenario people really played was Tor Arnoc.
Getting punted into the lava on Tor Arnoc got old fast.
I never made it to tier 4.

Originally posted by Rydeson

This game will NEVER survive if you allow griefing and ganking in open world.. Plain and simple.. Incase some of you are illiterate, there are multiple ships available for play, many are unable to defend themselves from so called PvP pirates..   THIS is not a space pirate game, and if the devs fail to assure the protection of non PvPer's.. this game will die in 6 months and all you PvPer's will be flying around LOOKING for only 50 people left in the game.. LOL

Actually, back in the aerly beta stages it was open PvP. meaning I could fly into your main home sector and gun you down. When they decided to make it a safe zone is when ALOT of people quit. You make it sound like any game with open PvP would be a warzone but it isn't.

When a well known pirate squad or player would enter a sector the defense channels setup by the players lit up. Many times large groups would form instantly and begin the hunt. Some of the best battles I remember happened while chasing a pirate squad back into their home sector. Just hearing a certain squad on the loose got everyone involved in the fun. Great times.

I still remember a squad ran by a guy named Druss. Just the sighting of one of his squad members would get the chat channels flowing with adrenaline and excitement. Multi faction groups would form and hours of fun would ensue. Hell, even well known miners/haulers would join in on the chase.

In other words, in a game like this the community is capable of controlling griefers and it adds a certain amount of fun on it's own. Safe zones with limited PvP zones tend to scale back the player driven policing and community involvement.

Originally posted by Viktaal

Originally posted by Rydeson

This game will NEVER survive if you allow griefing and ganking in open world.. Plain and simple.. Incase some of you are illiterate, there are multiple ships available for play, many are unable to defend themselves from so called PvP pirates..   THIS is not a space pirate game, and if the devs fail to assure the protection of non PvPer's.. this game will die in 6 months and all you PvPer's will be flying around LOOKING for only 50 people left in the game.. LOL

 

Actually, back in the aerly beta stages it was open PvP. meaning I could fly into your main home sector and gun you down. When they decided to make it a safe zone is when ALOT of people quit.  So would it be safe to say that beta testing the mechanics of the game didn't concern you , you only played to PvP??  You make it sound like any game with open PvP would be a warzone but it isn't.Sounds to be it was.. (read below)

 

When a well known pirate squad or player would enter a sector the defense channels setup by the players lit up. Many times large groups would form instantly and begin the hunt. Some of the best battles I remember happened while chasing a pirate squad back into their home sector. Just hearing a certain squad on the loose got everyone involved in the fun. Great times.

I still remember a squad ran by a guy named Druss. Just the sighting of one of his squad members would get the chat channels flowing with adrenaline and excitement. Multi faction groups would form and hours of fun would ensue. Hell, even well known miners/haulers would join in on the chase. YOU just said above that it wasn't a warzone, but you just now admited that, "many tmes large groups would form instantly and begine the hunt." and "Multi facation groups would form and HOURS of fun ensued"..    So I have to ask Mr Contradiction,, Was it a warzone or wasn't it?   

 

In other words, in a game like this the community is capable of controlling griefers and it adds a certain amount of fun on it's own. Safe zones with limited PvP zones tend to scale back the player driven policing and community involvement. OH.. I've played in PvP games before and I have yet to run into any that controlls grievers..  In fact once grieving goes unchecked you'll find groups of them seeking out targets at will..  But, if you think space RvR (PvP) is the sure ticket to success, why don't you play EvE and stick with that game instead trying to change what the Devs are doing with JE?

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Originally posted by Viktaal

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Originally posted by Rydeson

This game will NEVER survive if you allow griefing and ganking in open world.. Plain and simple.. Incase some of you are illiterate, there are multiple ships available for play, many are unable to defend themselves from so called PvP pirates..   THIS is not a space pirate game, and if the devs fail to assure the protection of non PvPer's.. this game will die in 6 months and all you PvPer's will be flying around LOOKING for only 50 people left in the game.. LOL

---

 
Actually, back in the aerly beta stages it was open PvP. meaning I could fly into your main home sector and gun you down. When they decided to make it a safe zone is when ALOT of people quit. You make it sound like any game with open PvP would be a warzone but it isn't.
 
When a well known pirate squad or player would enter a sector the defense channels setup by the players lit up. Many times large groups would form instantly and begin the hunt. Some of the best battles I remember happened while chasing a pirate squad back into their home sector. Just hearing a certain squad on the loose got everyone involved in the fun. Great times.
I still remember a squad ran by a guy named Druss. Just the sighting of one of his squad members would get the chat channels flowing with adrenaline and excitement. Multi faction groups would form and hours of fun would ensue. Hell, even well known miners/haulers would join in on the chase.
 
In other words, in a game like this the community is capable of controlling griefers and it adds a certain amount of fun on it's own. Safe zones with limited PvP zones tend to scale back the player driven policing and community involvement.

---

Having been in the testing of JGC since the early days of only 4 sectors and knowing the group of developers fairly well.  Any of you who think you know HOW the game needs to be developed need to chill and wait until you try it before whining about it one way or the other.

The game will have safe zones and will have open PvP areas.  There will be benefits and limitations in both sectors that will make a player who bounces back and forth between the areas as viable a part of the community as those who stay inside the PvP area and those outside the PvP area.

The game is designed to be expandable as well.  If it turns out there is more space needed in either PvP or the safe areas, they can be added on the fly as well as sectors can be expanded with content.  The one thing that caused me to leave the JGC game after the release was the petty whining squabbles that happened between the squads that most veterans call "Player Driven Content" or "Policing".  It was petty, whiny, awfull, and for the most part very childish.  1 day you log on and you are out their championing the small uy, the next day the trolls on the boards were stating how you had been killing the defensless children of some other group. 

No one is sure about the factions being restricted (as are most MMO) from having multi-squad factions.  Will have to wait and see how that plays out.  Until then, this game has great potential.  It is very different from any MMO currently released tho it does have some flavor of various games out there.  Which one doesn't?? 

I know I cannot convince the people against PvP that PvP is fun in the JG universe nor can I convince the PvP only crowd that safe areas are needed for a mixed populace.  Even the wild west had areas that were calm cool and under control.

Originally posted by NovaKayne

Having been in the testing of JGC since the early days of only 4 sectors and knowing the group of developers fairly well.  Any of you who think you know HOW the game needs to be developed need to chill and wait until you try it before whining about it one way or the other.

 

The game will have safe zones and will have open PvP areas.  There will be benefits and limitations in both sectors that will make a player who bounces back and forth between the areas as viable a part of the community as those who stay inside the PvP area and those outside the PvP area.

 

The game is designed to be expandable as well.  If it turns out there is more space needed in either PvP or the safe areas, they can be added on the fly as well as sectors can be expanded with content.  The one thing that caused me to leave the JGC game after the release was the petty whining squabbles that happened between the squads that most veterans call "Player Driven Content" or "Policing".  It was petty, whiny, awfull, and for the most part very childish.  1 day you log on and you are out their championing the small uy, the next day the trolls on the boards were stating how you had been killing the defensless children of some other group. 

 

No one is sure about the factions being restricted (as are most MMO) from having multi-squad factions.  Will have to wait and see how that plays out.  Until then, this game has great potential.  It is very different from any MMO currently released tho it does have some flavor of various games out there.  Which one doesn't?? 

 

I know I cannot convince the people against PvP that PvP is fun in the JG universe nor can I convince the PvP only crowd that safe areas are needed for a mixed populace.  Even the wild west had areas that were calm cool and under control.

Good points, we will have to wait and see what happens. Eve is a good example of a mixed game. As much as it annoys CCP, around 70% of their player base seldom if ever leaves high sec.  So eventually, they started to create more PvE content,

As for the "wild west" much of it wasn't that wild at all. Its rather bad for ones health to start fights when most of the people around you are armed, and experienced in the use of their arms. The major towns and cities tended to be "wilder" because of ...You guessed it, gun control. Other wise known as victim disarmament.  Gun laws only disarm the law abiding citizens. The very LAST people one should want to disarm. Unless one has another agenda in mind.

I always hold my judgement until I actually try the game. The only thing I hope for is that there isn't too much instanced combat and they level it more open based PvP and have some safe areas of course but leave the game open for us to fight it out :)

Originally posted by Agricola1

Originally posted by Rydeson

This game will NEVER survive if you allow griefing and ganking in open world.. Plain and simple.. Incase some of you are illiterate, there are multiple ships available for play, many are unable to defend themselves from so called PvP pirates..   THIS is not a space pirate game, and if the devs fail to assure the protection of non PvPer's.. this game will die in 6 months and all you PvPer's will be flying around LOOKING for only 50 people left in the game.. LOL

 

This is also an MMORPG not a single player, you want to mine or haul valubales then hire protection or join a guild. It seems that since WoW more and more people are playing MMORPGs that expect a single player friendly experience, unfortunately they get it more often than not. Leaving an MMO that is just a load of wank!

See EvE Online, most sucessful space mmo with still growing community and POSSIBILTY TO BE GRIEFED EVEN IN SAFE SPACE

Originally posted by wilq

Originally posted by Agricola1

Originally posted by Rydeson

This game will NEVER survive if you allow griefing and ganking in open world.. Plain and simple.. Incase some of you are illiterate, there are multiple ships available for play, many are unable to defend themselves from so called PvP pirates..   THIS is not a space pirate game, and if the devs fail to assure the protection of non PvPer's.. this game will die in 6 months and all you PvPer's will be flying around LOOKING for only 50 people left in the game.. LOL

 

This is also an MMORPG not a single player, you want to mine or haul valubales then hire protection or join a guild. It seems that since WoW more and more people are playing MMORPGs that expect a single player friendly experience, unfortunately they get it more often than not. Leaving an MMO that is just a load of wank!

 

See EvE Online, most sucessful space mmo with still growing community and POSSIBILTY TO BE GRIEFED EVEN IN SAFE SPACE

Certainly. Its possible to get ganked in highsec, but if one uses common sense its VERY rare. Concord has been beefed up to the point that NO ONE escapes such attacks. But make no mistake, Concord isn't there for protection. They are much more about retribution.  But thats entirely different from the wide open gankfest that a *small number* of people want to see implimented.

Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by wilq

Originally posted by Agricola1

Originally posted by Rydeson

This game will NEVER survive if you allow griefing and ganking in open world.. Plain and simple.. Incase some of you are illiterate, there are multiple ships available for play, many are unable to defend themselves from so called PvP pirates..   THIS is not a space pirate game, and if the devs fail to assure the protection of non PvPer's.. this game will die in 6 months and all you PvPer's will be flying around LOOKING for only 50 people left in the game.. LOL

 

This is also an MMORPG not a single player, you want to mine or haul valubales then hire protection or join a guild. It seems that since WoW more and more people are playing MMORPGs that expect a single player friendly experience, unfortunately they get it more often than not. Leaving an MMO that is just a load of wank!

 

See EvE Online, most sucessful space mmo with still growing community and POSSIBILTY TO BE GRIEFED EVEN IN SAFE SPACE

 

Certainly. Its possible to get ganked in highsec, but if one uses common sense its VERY rare. Concord has been beefed up to the point that NO ONE escapes such attacks. But make no mistake, Concord isn't there for protection. They are much more about retribution.  But thats entirely different from the wide open gankfest that a *small number* of people want to see implimented.

I really enjoyed Ultima Online when it first came out.  Obviously was full pvp outside of guard zones.  Had full looting upon death.

I've never really been a fan of open pvp since.  Perhaps its a change in the type of player or just the size of the market now.  EvE pretty much stands out...  You can make a pretty long list of open pvp games that have failed.. or games that had to shut down, merge or run open pvp servers with almost no population.  While on the long term successful side you have... EvE.

That really wouldn't inspire me as a developer.

Beyond that... EvE exists... you can log into EvE and play EvE right now.  Why would anyone want another EvE when they already have one?  For the simple reason of having a "different" game... I guess is my stance on this one.

And you're right the issue is a small percentage of the 10 percent crowd.. that wants the ability to gank who they want.. when they want.  Good example is if you were around Pirates of the Burning Sea when it launched and read the Ofurms and say the crap going on in game.  Its the same people or clones of them.

This isn't about my "guild" or "org" against yours... Its I want to be able to kill miners that can't fight back again (hey it sounds just like UO...) 

I agree with the phrase "small number" because most actual PvPr's actually want to fight people who want to fight back... aka.. a challenge.

Dont get me wrong, but when i hear about "instances" in Space setled mmo, that game is right out my intrest

Originally posted by wilq

Dont get me wrong, but when i hear about "instances" in Space setled mmo, that game is right out my intrest

I don't mind instancing as long as it never hampers the PvP component of the game. AoC and L2 did a great job on PvP I thought in the fact they left the game open. I could probably see no combat in certain areas against your own faction but against another faction you should be able to attack them in all areas but in front of a station.

Originally posted by solnicaris

Originally posted by wilq

Dont get me wrong, but when i hear about "instances" in Space setled mmo, that game is right out my intrest

 

I don't mind instancing as long as it never hampers the PvP component of the game. AoC and L2 did a great job on PvP I thought in the fact they left the game open. I could probably see no combat in certain areas against your own faction but against another faction you should be able to attack them in all areas but in front of a station.

No. That should be reserved for PvP servers only. Other wise it turns in to the usual gankfest that we've seen in countless games. Those who claim otherwise, either have little experience, or enjoy ganking themselves.  There is a much larger market for PvE with limited PvP than the other way around.

Originally posted by Wraithone

There is a much larger market for PvE with limited PvP than the other way around.

While this is true, I see nothing wrong with always on pvp in a faction based game, if done right... but that's the catch, doing it right.

Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by solnicaris

Originally posted by wilq

Dont get me wrong, but when i hear about "instances" in Space setled mmo, that game is right out my intrest

 

I don't mind instancing as long as it never hampers the PvP component of the game. AoC and L2 did a great job on PvP I thought in the fact they left the game open. I could probably see no combat in certain areas against your own faction but against another faction you should be able to attack them in all areas but in front of a station.

 

No. That should be reserved for PvP servers only. Other wise it turns in to the usual gankfest that we've seen in countless games. Those who claim otherwise, either have little experience, or enjoy ganking themselves.  There is a much larger market for PvE with limited PvP than the other way around.

I don't see the problem with being able to attack an enemy faction anywhere or at anytime. If space is divided into territories with each faction owning a part of space with a large neutral area, why not?

One thing that annoyed me about EVE was that factions (Amarr,Caldari,Gallente,Minmatar) meant absoloutely squat! It never made sense that I could fly into my mortal enemies space that we were at war with and trade in at his space hubs and so forth.

If people have a problem with being gunned down by their mortal enemy on sight well they should have different server types in my opinion, gay and non-gay server types! But will Netdevil do this? I doubt it, they've sold out and put in BGs already and will soon be making ships in the shape of my little ponies and carebears with the carebear mining laser stare!

It's a pity as this was showing some promise.

Originally posted by Agricola1

If people have a problem with being gunned down by their mortal enemy on sight well they should have different server types in my opinion, gay and non-gay server types! But will Netdevil do this? I doubt it, they've sold out and put in BGs already and will soon be making ships in the shape of my little ponies and carebears with the carebear mining laser stare!

It's a pity as this was showing some promise.

It looking like different server type are out, so you are right to doubt it. tho you could of done without calling them gay and non-gay, It's childish. BGs are fine as long as they don't end being the only thing people do (WAR, I'm looking at you). BGs should be for a break from other things in the game, or if you just looking for a quick space battle. Basically a mini game with-in the game.

Originally posted by lornphoenix

Originally posted by Agricola1

If people have a problem with being gunned down by their mortal enemy on sight well they should have different server types in my opinion, gay and non-gay server types! But will Netdevil do this? I doubt it, they've sold out and put in BGs already and will soon be making ships in the shape of my little ponies and carebears with the carebear mining laser stare!

It's a pity as this was showing some promise.

It looking like different server type are out, so you are right to doubt it. tho you could of done without calling them gay and non-gay, It's childish. BGs are fine as long as they don't end being the only thing people do (WAR, I'm looking at you). BGs should be for a break from other things in the game, or if you just looking for a quick space battle. Basically a mini game with-in the game.

In my opinion whenever you have a faction based game it should stay true to the style. The opposing factions are your enemy/allies and you should be able to attack on site. If people don't want to engage in that than don't go to confrontational areas. But I would expect that if my clan flew into enemy territory on a raid that I would be attacked. That is the fun part to go and go after your enemy. Now ND could make it interesting in game by announcing some temporary alliances where it is 2 vs 1 and things like that. If I remember the video on the BS's they are for training and ranking and things like that. It has no impact whatsoever on the universe and your faction. So let people play in them and leave faction battles the way they should be.