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2/24/09 8:20:39 PM#21
Originally posted by Hamrtime2
In accounting, a net loss does not necessarily (and usually does not) correspond to a loss of cash over the same period. Hence, Funcom's financial situation could be stronger than one might think simply by reading that one line from the press release. A depreciation expense (in accounting) is typically a cost that has already been incurred for an asset. Rules (and principles) of accrual-based accounting allow companies to allocate that cost over time. So next year, Funcom will probably report additional depreciation expenses related to AoC; those expenses will represent costs they've already incurred, not costs they incurred during the reporting period. This does not, of course, mean that circumstances are even close to rosy. It's just that it's easy for laymen to misunderstand the language used in financial press releases. |
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2/24/09 10:00:33 PM#22
Originally posted by heihojin
In accounting, a net loss does not necessarily (and usually does not) correspond to a loss of cash over the same period. Hence, Funcom's financial situation could be stronger than one might think simply by reading that one line from the press release. A depreciation expense (in accounting) is typically a cost that has already been incurred for an asset. Rules (and principles) of accrual-based accounting allow companies to allocate that cost over time. So next year, Funcom will probably report additional depreciation expenses related to AoC; those expenses will represent costs they've already incurred, not costs they incurred during the reporting period. This does not, of course, mean that circumstances are even close to rosy. It's just that it's easy for laymen to misunderstand the language used in financial press releases.
Accounting dictionary: Net loss - The bottom line of the income statement when revenues and gains are less than the aggregate amount of cost of goods sold, operating expenses, losses, and income taxes (if the company is a regular corporation). Of coruse there is an expensive that Funcom is taking, the operation of the game, new game develop, paying back any costs accured during development, etc. The fact is the net loss means that the company did not make enough revenue to cover these expenses. Also you quickly jump to acural-based accounting, how do you know if this is cash or accural or whatever is allowed in that country. It doesn't matter if the company is taking into account deprectiated expenses. The fact remains that if they took no the debt (i.e. the devlopment for the code, the code rights, royalties, etc) and cannot make enough money in teh fiscal year to cover that debt. In the end, when the market isn't buying your product and your losing more money than you can generate you are operationally bankrupt. Now can they turn this around, theroetcially yes, practically I highly doubt it without a huge overhaul.
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2/25/09 12:06:20 AM#23
What's this? Their dynamic, carpal tunnel inducing combat interface isn't enough to keep people playing their game? Big surprise there, heh. |
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2/25/09 1:56:42 AM#24
Originally posted by heihojin
In accounting, a net loss does not necessarily (and usually does not) correspond to a loss of cash over the same period. Hence, Funcom's financial situation could be stronger than one might think simply by reading that one line from the press release. A depreciation expense (in accounting) is typically a cost that has already been incurred for an asset. Rules (and principles) of accrual-based accounting allow companies to allocate that cost over time. So next year, Funcom will probably report additional depreciation expenses related to AoC; those expenses will represent costs they've already incurred, not costs they incurred during the reporting period. This does not, of course, mean that circumstances are even close to rosy. It's just that it's easy for laymen to misunderstand the language used in financial press releases.
If you just took a loss equal to your cash on hand, it's well beyond over and you've known for a long time coming. Can't say it's a surprise, but I do feel sorry for people who enjoyed the game and soon won't be able to play. Never played it myself. /rant |
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2/25/09 2:37:24 AM#25
Which is why I said:
Accrual-based accounting is so ubiquitous that one can reasonably assume that any corporation that is publicly reporting financial results is using some variation of accrual-based accounting. The precise standards vary from country to country, but the standards used are irrelevant in considering whether your assumption is reasonable. Funcom's report of depreciation expenses are indeed pertinent, and precisely the evidence one would need to assume that their net loss did not correspond to a similar loss of cash. In accrual-based accounting, a depreciation expense is an allocation of a cost already incurred; it is simply a way of matching the cost with the time during which the asset generates revenue. Now once again, I am not saying that Funcom's financial results are "good." I am simply saying that a reported net loss does not necessarily correspond to a similar loss of cash, and that a company's cash flows are often quite different from their reported earnings. |
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2/25/09 5:28:09 AM#26
I am starting to think AoC is going to bankrupt Funcom before its all over. |
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2/25/09 6:29:23 AM#27
i think everyone in here needs to get a perspective as to why the world is in the econmic state it is. Everyone was living beyond their means and it caught up to them. Everyone in america based their livelyhood on inflated home purchases spurned on by laxed finacial regulation and frankly pure ignorance. The rest of the world jumped on americas insatiable spending and bet their livelyhood on it. Now that we're tightening our belts the rest of the world has a reality check. Funcom suffered from the same american business idea that you can shovel any kinda crap at someone and they will buy it. it worls for a while but in the end everyone suffers. The mmo market will survive the econmic problems in the world. So will we as gamers. so say we all |
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2/25/09 9:12:32 AM#28
Originally posted by cylon8
Very nicely said in a nutshell. Funcom is not the only company suffering losses and it's not entirely due to AoC. NCsoft suffering losses, EA isn't too sure what to do with Mythic and so on.
(,,,)=^__^=(,,,)Game Latte Vidcast |
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2/25/09 10:04:42 AM#29
i thought their subs were around 120 to 140K below 100K is dissapointing |
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2/25/09 10:57:42 AM#30
Originally posted by Cynthe
Very nicely said in a nutshell. Funcom is not the only company suffering losses and it's not entirely due to AoC. NCsoft suffering losses, EA isn't too sure what to do with Mythic and so on.
The strong will survife - the weak will fall. Now... lets remind ourselfs. What company released a half finished game 8 months ago that was lacking alot of features and content.? And then "forgot" to tell the custimors about it - taking the game to 800 k copies sold with alot of unhappy custimors. Now... Is that a company that sounds like a strong one ? Or from the car industry perspective. Would that be one of the favorite company to survife considering it was selling cars that had no seats ? I wonder.... And to the financial expert with 3 posts that obviously has no connection to Funcom's PR squad.... Just zip it. Both AOC and AO have proven alot of what FUncom stands for. That includes total lack of respect from paying custimors to the extend of alot of unhappy ppl with how they have been treated. And yet the company uses the same methods to go about their buisness. Hopefully the gaming comunity has now made it perfectly clear that they expect abit more from ANY gaming company than to keep NDA on their product FOREVER ! We will see if the next MMO from Funcom is gonna lift NDA. Cause if not then its another sign that they havn't changed abit. |
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2/25/09 12:14:31 PM#31
Well .... i dropped from AoC after about 2 initial months. Not because of bugs, lag, ... but "we are doing great, game does not have any problems, most smooth start in game industry ..." and similar nonsenses. I hate disohonesty. And Funcom was dishonest to his players. Warhammer i.e. had also its share of problems .... but I always had impression they are honest toward me. Ok, it is true also, that Warhammer start was probably indeed one of the best starts in mmorpg world. But after few months of intense playing wotlk i needed short break .... and I have found that AoC has improved really a lot, nearly no lag, no memory leaks, .... Ok, gathering and crafting should be rewritten from scratch, can not be "fixed" in current state ... but otherwise i like a lot game, mechanics, realism. Despite I have not problems admitting I'm Wow lover and wow for me is the best game ever ... I also hope Aoc And War will not only survive, but evolve. They are for me second best thing to wow. |
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2/25/09 8:38:12 PM#32
I wonder what we will be saying about AOC one year from now? |
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2/26/09 3:05:29 AM#33
Originally posted by Death1942
I hope they don't, they get everything they deserve for overhyping an incomplete game. It had the potential to be a great game, but instead of putting money into the development, they put it into advertising. Sod failcom :) I hope other mmo companys see this and believe that they have to release a completed game to get anywhere these days and stop lying through their arse that it's done. |
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2/26/09 4:16:42 AM#34
Originally posted by Zutha
I hope they don't, they get everything they deserve for overhyping an incomplete game. It had the potential to be a great game, but instead of putting money into the development, they put it into advertising.
A lot of the hyping came from fanboys though. That's the problem I have with rabid fanboys for unreleased games. At last wait until it's relased and you've played it! |
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2/26/09 5:34:17 AM#35
In a way its really a pity. AoC had some really great elements, but in the long run there was too little of everything to keep me playing longer. Its just not really well planned and thought through to keep you entertained with new things. There was great landscapes and cool combat, and thats pretty much all. I still miss the action combat, really. But only humans, mediocre magic, relatively small world and after Tortage mostly boring quests. There is just too little game in the game.
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3/03/09 7:44:03 AM#36
I was very dissapointed with age of conan as it was more of the same old MMO patern. with unnecessarily high graphic requirements. I was looking for a game that was much more realistic and organic and not just the same old quest grinding or mob grinding to me AOC could have been auto generated it felt more like a stage or prefab arena combat more like a quest vending machine I didnt even need to subscribe beyond the 30 days to see the writing on this wall as an older player im looking for a game that uses a idealized reality but one that is much more organic and immersive some things I look for food and water being important, crossing a desert is trivial when there are no real water requirements also food is a powerful plot device you can even have trade and caravans I would have both clothing and armor be important you would want warm dry clothing in the icy north I would have drastic death exists but very difficult to actually "die" you would most likely die or be crippled for a short time warm and cold and weather penalties to endurance and morale climate and seasons localized resources where there is iron in the mountains clay in the river I like to see more "quests" being organic or embeded where the charactor can be hired as a worker or a noob can even go out and gather wood in the forest to sell to other players to use in their fireplaces I see new players coming into the game as a pesant having to scrounge and fight for food like an olivar twist and then join up with the city guard or the church or the mage guild as an apprentice and their powers and skills would be in line with their status. skills and powers would be more sandbox a fire ball spell would be constructed from different parts such as power and range and color so is it a big short range ball? or a smaller long range ball? same for sword attack combinations I would also have combat encounters being much more diverse and interactive such as stumbles and tumbles and knockdowns and trips and blindings I would have more interactive terrain doors that need bashing through I would try not to have cripple game like missing siege weapons or boats and ships I would create a "GM" type of avatar that can be used to create organic chaos such as drouts or storms or goblin raids that are not typical of the usual generic spawn generators I would endever to have crafts to be very important and valued to the game world gathering skills such as fishing and farming and ranching and processing such as smoking or drying or grinding and storage like pottery or basket weaving think about a cold hungry wet tired soldiers morale and endurance as compared to a warm, well feed, dry soldier thieves and criminals have allways been short changed... id actually have crimes and penalties and even jail and punishment as part of the game environment as a matter of fact, a thief might actually get his start by being thrown into the local jail! Id have several ways to deal with jail like you could do your time proforming some non afk type jobs such as breaking rocks or digging trenches but id also have ways like bribery or break out or sneek out ect. I would also have player reputation with village venders so the longer they know you the more it changes do they like you hate you fear you? I think players and NPC villages should have a synergistic relationship so as the player does work for the village the more prosperous the village gets (the blacksmith can now make basic iron swords instead of basic bronze swords because the player brought wood or metals) this creates an actual bond or relation ship where the player cares more about the town and its fate (id also have player housing instanced in different locations in cities villages worksites wilderness id even like to see guild villages these would be preset locations near expected building locations near water or resources or stratigic locations like passes. I would have merchants have a small stock of basic goods jerkey and water and have players create the rest,,, id have only local player venders or auction house I think a global auction is bad for gaming want a fancy sword? goto a major city, this allows for more market diversity and more "masters" and of course trade (iceburg lettus from the north,, pinapples from the south,, id expect certain recipies or concoctions would have better benefits using more distant or exotic ingredients,, food and drink would also have a social factor would you feed gruel to the queen? or quail eggs? id have forest fires volcanos earthquakes floods blizzards plagues as for PVP I would probably use regonized and concentual pvp though id also have non lethal bar fights available, my goal is fights would tend to be by some form of choice if a thief breaks into a house players and guards might try to pummel and aprehend him but it was his choice to risk breaking in! ive said alot in a concentrated post i hope you can make sense of it.
make a world, not a game, we dont want another game. |
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3/03/09 8:25:16 AM#37
I had another game idea where players have to evacuate their home planet and escape through a magic or technical portal to a distant and totally unknown world. before passing through the portal you get to choose from a limited selection of goods (figure they have to be specially designed to pass through the portal) a pack or shoulder pouch or tool belt,,,food pack water container ..shovel, ax, large knife,,, rope ect so it would take several people to actually have all the items,, and items would be as multi use as possible the ax could chop wood or as a weapon ect. all a new player knows is that where he lands is relativly safe and not too far from an outpost (I was actually considering a mind wipe here and they would land and find a picture monument pointing to the settlement.) players wouldnt know anything about their world even what way is north, the weather, whats good to eat, or bad, if there are any inteligent life/orcs even if there are any planets in this solar system or even a moon until they look up or what animal or plant life is hostile . id even like to figure a way for players to be able to name mobs objects and locations somehow,, maby a vote or sugest system id even go as far as does this new world work like our universe? if not why not? is it bright at night? why? big moon? glowing ether? can it ever get really dark as in torch lantern and candle dark? is the planet your on flat? square? and where are you on the planet (or is it an exotic ant farm?) it is up to the players to discover all of this or learn from veterans and learn to work and build in the new world i expect there will be several of these settlements scattered around,, wether they will be friends or enemies is up to them it is even possible for certain settlements to be destroyed or invaded or claimed but terrain or distance would make this difficult. physicly players would be similar in size and strength modified slightly by starting atributes and skills so a spear or a bullet would be lethal within their parameters I would also have some very origional and interesting animals that would have organic habits forage mating ect there would be several ways to hunt these creatures such as traping or stalking there would be lots of skills and researching learn how to construct bows or spears or steel swords or guns or siege weapons depending on the games theme. so players could choose to be a fur hunter or a smithy or a healer depending on which skills they work on. im allways a big fan of default + extra for extra effort,,, for instance a smith can easily make an iron sword of his skill level but it takes extra effort, time, and risk to create a higher quality item like a reinforced iron sword , id also have a certain amount of resource recovery as from failed attempts. I would hope if someone finds this Idea usefull would not just steal it without reasonable consideration but i would love to see some game that is fun and adventurous but not the same spawn generators and stupid AI and vending machine quest givers make a world, not a game, we dont want another game. |
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3/03/09 8:31:57 AM#38
Just an FYI:
This article is based on outdated data from Sept-Nov. 2008. They published the article on Feb 23rd because they just got the estimates in from DnB NOR during for that period. It does not reflect the 20% growth each month AoC has had over the past 3 months. Furthermore anyone who has dealt with DnB knows how horribly inaccurate most of their data is with simple business credit much less with estimating MMO subscribership. I can only imagine their process in determining it. I find that an article estimating the subscribers to be closer to 100k-120k done by lit on this very forums to be A LOT more accurate. As a matter of fact Lit hates Funcom and still gives them higher numbers then the horribly inaccurate DnB report which is based on the same data that he is evaluating.
Current numbers are around 180k-200k and growing.
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3/03/09 9:15:51 AM#39
I can ony say that my expirence with AOC was less than desired instead of being revolutionary and out of the box it was for the most part just another verson of existing MMO builds there was one point I was in a pyramid? and there were these statues that some of them shifted as you pass which lead you to believe in a possibility for a very creative and origional encounter but it was not to be,, they attacked and died in a very predictable and boring way. I rember going into a catacomb in the northern city whish was supose to be a difficult location but i found myself falling to sleep with boredom as the mobs had lots of hitpoints and damage but nothing else effectivy a big rat make a world, not a game, we dont want another game. |
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3/03/09 1:35:41 PM#40
I have just resubbed to AoC since i liked it, recently cancelled my wow account with a lvl 72 okey geared hunter as main and when't back to anarchy online :) Many here complain about funcom and how they have dealt with customers but lets face it Anarchy has been around for over 7 years and while it is not wow density on players it feels fairly busy. Finances are troubled in many areas, the car dealer saab might not even make it, volvo is not exactly in good shape, gm has some major problems, companys here in sweden have made a deal with the union to cut salaries to max 80% of the current instead of layoffs. 
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I get to quote myself from a previous prediction earlier this month "The real question will be their Q2 09' quarter to really see how the golden egg (AoC) is really doing. I predict that if the Q2 numbers are weak overall (for AoC), the stock will fall below $2 permanently which will utterly cripple their ability to gain future outside financing as they will have a year's worth of data showing their viability in the mmo market. AoC IP will be sold off to shore-up funding for their continuing adventures and Funcom will become a primariliy single-player RPG development (my long term prediction). They had great success with Dreamfall and they should stick with single-player RPG's." Lets see what happens with the company.
