I know this is a very general question but I am curious if there are any stats on what it typically costs per sub to maintain it? What is the "mark up" so to speak? Where is the break even point for op ex compared to over all sub levels? I know there are variences between games based on specific engine and server upkeep requirements, as well as bug fixes and game improvements.

I would think that basic maintainance of Servers and Services is not that high. I wonder what the margin is on a $14 US monthly sub.

How do the FTP game do with item malls, etc? I have read this actually produces good profits if not higher profits then a subscription but have never seen any statistics.

Anyone have any idea or can you point to a good source of information? Bein a fan of the industry I am very curious as to how MMO companies balance this stuff.

The cost per subscription probably varies greatly from one game to another.  Note that the company has to bring in far more revenue per subscription than the direct costs of a subscription to cover the costs of game development. 

I too have pondered this question. I'm sure most MMOs could get by fine with a lesser fee. UO was $10 a month when it first came out in '97. Aren't bandwidth and server costs lower nowadays? So I'm thinking MMOs could do fine at $10 per month, but then I'm neglecting inflation here.

Originally posted by dougmysticey

I know this is a very general question but I am curious if there are any stats on what it typically costs per sub to maintain it? What is the "mark up" so to speak? Where is the break even point for op ex compared to over all sub levels? I know there are variences between games based on specific engine and server upkeep requirements, as well as bug fixes and game improvements.

I would think that basic maintainance of Servers and Services is not that high. I wonder what the margin is on a $14 US monthly sub.

How do the FTP game do with item malls, etc? I have read this actually produces good profits if not higher profits then a subscription but have never seen any statistics.

Anyone have any idea or can you point to a good source of information? Bein a fan of the industry I am very curious as to how MMO companies balance this stuff.

I don't know the exact answer, but I think there is a break even point. In other words you must get at least X subs to break even, because there are fixed costs involved in just setting up a server. Basically, if you set up a server and only get one sub for 14 bucks, you're going to lose a lot of money.

Also, I've looked at servers, and it ain't cheap. You'll need dedicated hosting, and lots of bandwidth. Plus, you can't just turn it on and forget it, you'll need to pay people to take care of any glitches. I"m sure you've played a game and tried to log on only to find out he servers are down.

 @leinad312:

Bandwidth prices have gone down since UO first opened, but games now use a LOT more bandwidth in some cases than the original UO.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by dougmysticey

I know this is a very general question but I am curious if there are any stats on what it typically costs per sub to maintain it? What is the "mark up" so to speak? Where is the break even point for op ex compared to over all sub levels? I know there are variences between games based on specific engine and server upkeep requirements, as well as bug fixes and game improvements.

I would think that basic maintainance of Servers and Services is not that high. I wonder what the margin is on a $14 US monthly sub.

How do the FTP game do with item malls, etc? I have read this actually produces good profits if not higher profits then a subscription but have never seen any statistics.

Anyone have any idea or can you point to a good source of information? Bein a fan of the industry I am very curious as to how MMO companies balance this stuff.

 

I don't know the exact answer, but I think there is a break even point. In other words you must get at least X subs to break even, because there are fixed costs involved in just setting up a server. Basically, if you set up a server and only get one sub for 14 bucks, you're going to lose a lot of money.

Also, I've looked at servers, and it ain't cheap. You'll need dedicated hosting, and lots of bandwidth. Plus, you can't just turn it on and forget it, you'll need to pay people to take care of any glitches. I"m sure you've played a game and tried to log on only to find out he servers are down.

 @leinad312:

Bandwidth prices have gone down since UO first opened, but games now use a LOT more bandwidth in some cases than the original UO.

Do you think that most companies use a Server farm or Co-lo so that have redundant support? It is also cheaper to "lease" server space then to buy servers I would think. If I were to breakdown the Op ex costs post launch I imagine they are:
 

Servers or Server lease with redundant back up

Bandwidth

Direct expense from empolyee costs attributed from maintainance staff and customer service/ tech support staff.

Marketing budget

R&D % applied (improvement process and future products in the franchise like expansions)

infrastructure (office space, phones, leadership, etc)

I really wish there was a study on this. I would love to see how this looks. I could probably look over the financials of a publically traded game co but that would not show the direct costs and contribution margins of an MMO game itself as well as what the delta is between break even and profitability.

More than you have or will ever have in your pathetic life  , thats all you need to know.

My guess, about 2 million a month

Originally posted by Turnell

My guess, about 2 million a month

I"ve seen other estimates, adn this sounds about right.

Here's what the servers for Darkfall look like. This sort of high tech set up is not cheap:

$5k per server running 500 users or so

$1k per month to host , maintain, 24/7 live support of server by 3rd party (per server)

$3k per month for 100MBIT on tier 2 Internet Backbone. That should run 500 users

Some more money per month for operating costs, billing, etc. and to run your website supporting your product. Probably another $2k

So to run a MMO supporting 500 players you would, rough estimate, spend about:

6k upfront costs

5k a month in recurring costs for 500 users. Better charge them $10 minimum :)

This is actually a good question, if anyone who works for an mmorpg company can give us some estimate or numbers to figure it out It would be nice, however if server costs are so high how do games like Monster Hunter keep servers up for free for years at a time without a subscription fee?

We can't forget network infrastructure though. You aren't using consumer brands anymore and they will be using a switch if they have more than one server depending on the size they may need several switches usually high quality ones at that if its a large company. Its not unusual for a company even a fairly small one to spend over 10k on a switch as well as a backup. They also pay for ips they generally have a class A ip address for the big ones. If its a private address then they need to have a NAT to allow internet access.

It requires a lot of money to setup your own network smaller mmo's generally lease their servers from another company however they usually don't have full and complete control with them and it makes them harder to update and do maintenance. Often times when you lease equipment if a problem goes wrong they can take awhile to find it. It depends if they use a troubleshooting method such as starting from the bottom of the OSI model and working their way up.

There is a lot to consider.

I think your term "run" rewuires more specification. Do you include your staffing costs? promotion? workers insurance? etc etc

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Turnell

My guess, about 2 million a month

 

I"ve seen other estimates, adn this sounds about right.

 

Here's what the servers for Darkfall look like. This sort of high tech set up is not cheap:

This is the result when a hillbilly is trying to set up his multiple rigs.

Why are you asking us?

E-mail a dev.

Originally posted by Frotus

$5k per server running 500 users or so

$1k per month to host , maintain, 24/7 live support of server by 3rd party (per server)

$3k per month for 100MBIT on tier 2 Internet Backbone. That should run 500 users

Some more money per month for operating costs, billing, etc. and to run your website supporting your product. Probably another $2k

So to run a MMO supporting 500 players you would, rough estimate, spend about:

6k upfront costs

5k a month in recurring costs for 500 users. Better charge them $10 minimum :)

No it does NOT.

If you are buying server hardware and bandwidth for JUST the 500 concurrent users, you could probably run the server on next to nothing.  Hell, most websites need more bandwidth than a game with 500 users....and I am promising you it does not cost anywhere close to even a thousand to host THAT.

I don't claim to know much about any of this, but I DO know business.  If its costing 5K for 500 users, then subs would be running us about 30$ a month.  Obviously, it takes far less than that....else we'd not EVER have free to play games.  A hefty part of the sub money goes into paying off debt and clearing payroll....just like any other business.  You can also bet a fat portion is set aside as clean profit, part to fatten the corporate wallet and part to fund future projects.  I can almost guarantee that when a company sits down to project its spending....server cost probably barely even makes a quarter or what income they bring in.

Very interesting topic.  When I get some more time later I may do a little research to see if I can dig anything up.

That pic made me lol btw. 

Originally posted by Gishgeron

Originally posted by Frotus

$5k per server running 500 users or so

$1k per month to host , maintain, 24/7 live support of server by 3rd party (per server)

$3k per month for 100MBIT on tier 2 Internet Backbone. That should run 500 users

Some more money per month for operating costs, billing, etc. and to run your website supporting your product. Probably another $2k

So to run a MMO supporting 500 players you would, rough estimate, spend about:

6k upfront costs

5k a month in recurring costs for 500 users. Better charge them $10 minimum :)

 

No it does NOT.

If you are buying server hardware and bandwidth for JUST the 500 concurrent users, you could probably run the server on next to nothing.  Hell, most websites need more bandwidth than a game with 500 users....and I am promising you it does not cost anywhere close to even a thousand to host THAT.

I don't claim to know much about any of this, but I DO know business.  If its costing 5K for 500 users, then subs would be running us about 30$ a month.  Obviously, it takes far less than that....else we'd not EVER have free to play games.  A hefty part of the sub money goes into paying off debt and clearing payroll....just like any other business.  You can also bet a fat portion is set aside as clean profit, part to fatten the corporate wallet and part to fund future projects.  I can almost guarantee that when a company sits down to project its spending....server cost probably barely even makes a quarter or what income they bring in.

You need to do some more research. Website hosts will not let you run games on their servers. Hosts that will let you run games on the servers charge more than website hosts.

So just comparing bandwidth doesn't work.

Game server hosts

Free to Play games are not "free". They make money in item malls.The reason the prices seem outrageous in item malls is that the profit from the items has to pay for the bandwidth for all the people that try the game, but don't make it to the item mall.

It does not matter how much the hardware costs per month...

_________________________

Yes that's right the cost of maintaining/renting hardware is insignifigant to the cost of a full team behind an MMO.

I found this link to help continue the discussion. Has a good list of game server hosting companies.

http://mmorpgmaker.vault.ign.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1573

Does not appear to be that costly. It depends on how many concurrent users in an MMO the server can handle.

im sure most MMOs could make a fine amount of cash having subscribers pay only $10, however they do their research and know they can get people to pay at least $15.  Its all about demand, and theres plenty of it.  they know what theyre doing.

it would cost a model t car, a couple jars of beer, and a toddler

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=38473390