You know what I think should happen? I think that Aventurine, or maybe just Tasos, should apologize to all their fans for creating an empty shell of what could have been an amazing game.

Originally posted by Roin

Little pre-mature

Sorry Signus no apology for you.  When shit hit the fan you and your little buddy Isane were no where to be found.  More then happy to apologize to AV for rattling their cage.   Whether good or bad they made it to the gate, or at least will on 25th.  Seggalion (sp?) ,Aragon, Downtoearth as well for rattling their cages as well. They at least had enough guts to stick around when it wasn't looking so good.  Hell even Darthraiden and Strongaxe crazy ass stuck around.  Much respect to them as well.

Signus and Isane you two can take a long walk off a short peer.  To everyone else mentioned above.  You have my respect for sticking around, and yes I do apolgize for harassing you sometimes.  Whether AV got DF to wear they promised, isn't my concern right now.  Much respect to them as well for sticking to their guns for most part.  (Pre-order thing, but I can let that slide)  Congrats AV, hopefully all will go well on 25th, though I am waiting for NA release.  Sorry just not going to risk playing something that handles like a FPS with a server based over-sea's.

Holy crap this is pure awesomness. I love me downtoearth debates 

I agree with everything you just said and I too applaud those who stuck around and took the beating.

Originally posted by heartless

You know what I think should happen? I think that Aventurine, or maybe just Tasos, should apologize to all their fans for creating an empty shell of what could have been an amazing game.

"Empty shell of what could have been a great game"

That's most  MMOs out today. It's the new MMO standard. BTW, how many apologies do you want?  Blizzard can apologize next and then  NCSoft and then Cryptic and so on...

EA and SOE don't need to apologize. They just need to be beaten to a bloody pulp. That's thanks enough.

EDIT: Typo

Originally posted by SignusM

  Oh its so cute when you guys pick little things apart and just plain old make things up to make yourself feel better about how well Darkfall is doing.

For years and years and years I've listened to this website bash on Darkfall. "The game doesn't exist" "I looked it up on google earth, the office address is fake!" "That video was made with Gmod!" "You people are all getting duped! I'm just trying to save you!"

Then August rolls around, we get a nice 17 minute video "It was all scripted and fake, none of that stuff is really in the game" "This is so bogus, Age of Conan had nice movies too".

Then beta rolls around "I don't know anyone in beta, it must be fake" "Game doesn't exist, they just made this announcement to string people along, those monsters." "How come there are no leaks? If the game was real, people would be leaking."

Then the leaks started popping up "Ok well... ok the game is real but... its going to suck! Yeah yeah that's the argument I'm going with now! This game is going to tank harder than any game in the history of forever!" "Yeah, you guys are losers for following this game, look at those Doom graphics lolz" "Psh, this game is going to suck so bad, no one is going to touch it." "There's no way this game is launching with all the stuff they've promised."

Now here we are, present day. What do we have? We have so many people trying to buy the game that its CRASHING THE WEB SERVER. Aventurine has announced they're getting 20x the number of connections per second than they estimated and they're trying to deal with it now but upping their systems AGAIN.
Overwhelming majority of reviews say the game is great, could use a tiny bit of tweaking and balancing, but all the systems are there. Aiming arrows and spells, advanced AI, sieging, ship combat, twitch melee system, all the features they promised (with the exception of roaming mobs) are there, and people are scrambling to buy the game.

And here you sit, many of you former vapor trolls, trying to find anything and everything you can to bring the game down, just so you don't feel like a total moron. What happened to rooting for the underdog? 30 people in Greece delivered game with more depth, soul, and uniqeuness than any release in the past 4 years (except for EVE).
Let's look at Vanguard, a game which I loved. At launch, 8/10 quests were bugged, servers were plagued with horrible lag, client crashed and blue screened almost every hour, almost every major system from quest encounters to ships were broken, grouping bugs, bugs EVERYWHERE.
Age of Conan, launched with maybe 1/20 of its major features intact and lacked any content past level 20. The performance was fairly bad, and each zone got instanced if more than 50 people entered it. You couldn't even go back to noob zones if you were a high enogh levels. Dev response "Why would you want to?"
Now we have Darkfall, virtually every complaint that got brought up in beta was addressed within 2 days. What they're working on now, is a better rogue flagging system and a bit of the skill progression so that things are more worth it earlier on. They've already overhauled magic twice and done a fantastic job. World was too empty? Virtually every camp has been turned on now, people were whining cause they had them turned off to test the AI nodes, now I haven't seen an empty one in 2 weeks.
The game could use a little touch ups, but its rock stable, and all the features are there. But some people just loooove to make mountains out of mole hills.

 

 

The game is real, so you lost that battle, no matter how many times you tried to ressurrect it. I think my favorite moment was when you guys said "The DDOS was faked to give them more time!" The reason I was laughing my ass off during that is because the day of the DDOS I got my beta invite. 

A scam is software that is not real.

Vaporware is software that has an unusual development cycle, and has not released.

Darkfall is vaporware until it releases, because of it's unusual development cycle.

It's going to release I am sure, and then it will be Redemptive Software.

Not much more to it than that.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

A scam is software that is not real.

Vaporware is software that has an unusual development cycle, and has not released.

Darkfall is vaporware until it releases, because of it's unusual development cycle.

It's going to release I am sure, and then it will be Redemptive Software.

Not much more to it than that.

U keep pushing that old tune. But the fact remains its simply not true:

From Computer Desktop Encyclopedia:

Vaporware

Software that is not yet in production, but the announced delivery date has long since passed.

Not yet in PRODUCTION...

Marketing Dictionary:

vaporware

Software that has been promised by a software designer but never delivered.

NEVER delivered...

Wikipedia:

Vaporware is a somewhat derogatory term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge

FAILS to emerge...

 In development does not equal Vaporware.

Get over it.

-Darkstar

Originally posted by cfurlin

Originally posted by heartless

You know what I think should happen? I think that Aventurine, or maybe just Tasos, should apologize to all their fans for creating an empty shell of what could have been an amazing game.

"Empty shell of what could have been a great game"

That's most  MMOs out today. It's the new MMO standard. BTW, how many apologies do you want?  Blizzard can apologize next and then  NCSoft and then Cryptic and so on...

EA and SOE don't need to apologize. They just need to be beaten to a bloody pulp. That's thanks enough.

EDIT: Typo

Unlike Aventurine though, the companies you have mentioned did not run around claiming their games to be "feature complete" and "more ready now than most MMOs are 3 months after their launch date" for a few years. Only for us to find out that the only reason it's "feature complete" is because a lot of the features were cut and most of the ones implemented were done so half-assed. As for the readiness, it sort of is, provided that the server made for 10,000 people will only have about 3,000 on. Oh and provided that those players don't pre-order, since that aspect doesn't seem to work right.

I see what you're saying though.

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by cfurlin

Originally posted by heartless

You know what I think should happen? I think that Aventurine, or maybe just Tasos, should apologize to all their fans for creating an empty shell of what could have been an amazing game.

"Empty shell of what could have been a great game"

That's most  MMOs out today. It's the new MMO standard. BTW, how many apologies do you want?  Blizzard can apologize next and then  NCSoft and then Cryptic and so on...

EA and SOE don't need to apologize. They just need to be beaten to a bloody pulp. That's thanks enough.

EDIT: Typo

 

Unlike Aventurine though, the companies you have mentioned did not run around claiming their games to be "feature complete" and "more ready now than most MMOs are 3 months after their launch date" for a few years. Only for us to find out that the only reason it's "feature complete" is because a lot of the features were cut and most of the ones implemented were done so half-assed. As for the readiness, it sort of is, provided that the server made for 10,000 people will only have about 3,000 on. Oh and provided that those players don't pre-order, since that aspect doesn't seem to work right.

I see what you're saying though.

Uh, it is feature complete. And I've had no lag, crash, or bug issues in my month of being in beta. 

People keep running around saying that the game cut sooo many features. I play along and ask people WHAT features were cut, and they either list features that were NEVER going to be in the game, or features that were announced to be out back in 2005. Mostly the former. But hey, trolls like to make things up. 

Originally posted by SignusM

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by cfurlin

Originally posted by heartless

You know what I think should happen? I think that Aventurine, or maybe just Tasos, should apologize to all their fans for creating an empty shell of what could have been an amazing game.

"Empty shell of what could have been a great game"

That's most  MMOs out today. It's the new MMO standard. BTW, how many apologies do you want?  Blizzard can apologize next and then  NCSoft and then Cryptic and so on...

EA and SOE don't need to apologize. They just need to be beaten to a bloody pulp. That's thanks enough.

EDIT: Typo

 

Unlike Aventurine though, the companies you have mentioned did not run around claiming their games to be "feature complete" and "more ready now than most MMOs are 3 months after their launch date" for a few years. Only for us to find out that the only reason it's "feature complete" is because a lot of the features were cut and most of the ones implemented were done so half-assed. As for the readiness, it sort of is, provided that the server made for 10,000 people will only have about 3,000 on. Oh and provided that those players don't pre-order, since that aspect doesn't seem to work right.

I see what you're saying though.

Uh, it is feature complete. And I've had no lag, crash, or bug issues in my month of being in beta. 

 

People keep running around saying that the game cut sooo many features. I play along and ask people WHAT features were cut, and they either list features that were NEVER going to be in the game, or features that were announced to be out back in 2005. Mostly the former. But hey, trolls like to make things up. 

I don't consider running around naked, aimlessly PKing people as feature complete. As for the whole "feature complete" thing, the features that are implemented are done poorly and the stuff that was cut is what attracted a lot of players to the game in the first place. Besides that, a lot of those features are still listed on the official website.

Bout honestly, what is there to do for a person in DF? You can kill mobs. You can kill players. You can loot players. You can grind for resources and build items. You can join a clan and build a city and a boat. Then you can siege other clan cities. That's Age of Conan minus the full loot, the boats and the nice graphics. UO was released with more things to do 11 years ago.

However, if that's enough for you to maintain interest in the game, god bless. Who am I to tell you what game to play? On the other hand, you and the rest of Tasos fanclub should probably take a step back and look at the game objectively. Compare the existing product to what it could have been and learn to respect other people's opinions.

As far as stability goes, we will see on the 25th. The server was not stress tested at all. They had about 3,000 testers on a server that's suppose to house 10,000 simultaneous users. That's a potential problem right there.

Oh and I guess on this forum Troll = someone who looks at the game objectively and doesn't blindly think that it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by SignusM

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by cfurlin

Originally posted by heartless

You know what I think should happen? I think that Aventurine, or maybe just Tasos, should apologize to all their fans for creating an empty shell of what could have been an amazing game.

"Empty shell of what could have been a great game"

That's most  MMOs out today. It's the new MMO standard. BTW, how many apologies do you want?  Blizzard can apologize next and then  NCSoft and then Cryptic and so on...

EA and SOE don't need to apologize. They just need to be beaten to a bloody pulp. That's thanks enough.

EDIT: Typo

 

Unlike Aventurine though, the companies you have mentioned did not run around claiming their games to be "feature complete" and "more ready now than most MMOs are 3 months after their launch date" for a few years. Only for us to find out that the only reason it's "feature complete" is because a lot of the features were cut and most of the ones implemented were done so half-assed. As for the readiness, it sort of is, provided that the server made for 10,000 people will only have about 3,000 on. Oh and provided that those players don't pre-order, since that aspect doesn't seem to work right.

I see what you're saying though.

Uh, it is feature complete. And I've had no lag, crash, or bug issues in my month of being in beta. 

 

People keep running around saying that the game cut sooo many features. I play along and ask people WHAT features were cut, and they either list features that were NEVER going to be in the game, or features that were announced to be out back in 2005. Mostly the former. But hey, trolls like to make things up. 

I don't consider running around naked, aimlessly PKing people as feature complete. As for the whole "feature complete" thing, the features that are implemented are done poorly and the stuff that was cut is what attracted a lot of players to the game in the first place. Besides that, a lot of those features are still listed on the official website.

Bout honestly, what is there to do for a person in DF? You can kill mobs. You can kill players. You can loot players. You can grind for resources and build items. You can join a clan and build a city and a boat. Then you can siege other clan cities. That's Age of Conan minus the full loot, the boats and the nice graphics. UO was released with more things to do 11 years ago.

However, if that's enough for you to maintain interest in the game, god bless. Who am I to tell you what game to play? On the other hand, you and the rest of Tasos fanclub should probably take a step back and look at the game objectively. Compare the existing product to what it could have been and learn to respect other people's opinions.

As far as stability goes, we will see on the 25th. The server was not stress tested at all. They had about 3,000 testers on a server that's suppose to house 10,000 simultaneous users. That's a potential problem right there.

Oh and I guess on this forum Troll = someone who looks at the game objectively and doesn't blindly think that it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

I see you offered no supporting details or evidence for your complaints. At least all of what you said wasn't filled with COMPLETE idiocy and blind hate. You sound like someone that could potentially be saved. 

These "cut features" that many people looking forward to the game are missing out on? 

Please, list said features, and I will either admit that they are indeed cut, or tell you how you're wrong. 

As for the features that ARE in the game, the only real complaint people had were about the melee system and the rogue system, both of which were addressed in the patch yesterday. 

Originally posted by SignusM 

I see you offered no supporting details or evidence for your complaints. At least all of what you said wasn't filled with COMPLETE idiocy and blind hate. You sound like someone that could potentially be saved. 

These "cut features" that many people looking forward to the game are missing out on? 

Please, list said features, and I will either admit that they are indeed cut, or tell you how you're wrong. 

As for the features that ARE in the game, the only real complaint people had were about the melee system and the rogue system, both of which were addressed in the patch yesterday. 

I don't need to be "saved". Darkfall isn't a religion, although maybe for some it is.

Instead of me posting a long list of problems with this game, I will copy and paste a post made by a beta tester on Forumfall, since you're part of the staff on that site, you might've read it already. It would be nice to get a reply to it, as I've posted it before and I only got one reply by downtoearth claiming that I have no idea or some crap.

Here it is:

1) Magic - There will be people who say its worthwhile but honestly its mostly crap until ALOT later on, and really pure mage builds are not currently viable. The magic schools as well are not diverse they usually contain the same sorts of spells just with different names and flavours.

2) Crafting - Utterly sucky, its not at all worthwhile as a career. In eve a player could be a pure crafter and never fight such is the system, in DF crafting is something most people will learn to some degree to make cheap decent armour and weapons but not many will bother getting to high levels as its really not worth while at the moment.
It takes to long to grind mats and gold needed compared to grinding mobs which drop similar level items, and to add insult to injury there is no in game economy or market system to sell stuff, its literally as crude as standing in town spamming "WTS XXXX" in chat all day long.

3) Economy - A continuation of the above, I understand that perhaps the devs though players would use their own time and means to sell goods but the reality will be shit. It will be 10000 odd noob players spamming chat selling crap left right and centre, some form on in game localised market system needs to be implemented very quickly if the game is to endure for any period of time.

4) Mobs - If anyone (like me) got really excited when they read about how the AI is really clever, how its like a quake bot, how the mobs will loot players and band together in dynamic spawns and fight each other. Then prepare to be REALLY dissapointed.
By intelligent they mean, a mob will reach X hits and run around like a demented 100m sprinter, thats it, they will not stalk you or use tactics like even the most basic AI in some other games, they are often downright bizarre and will while systematically beating your ass suddenly sprint away and break agro for no good reason, equally every mob i met (and it was alot) can be outwitted by sprinting in a straight line for about 8 seconds.
The mobs are the single most dissapointing aspect of the whole game for me.

They are exactly like games like Anarchy Online, retarded AI static spawns which can be farmed by any half wit and rely purely on having ridiculous amounts of hits to survive.
Many mobs are bugged and easy to trick into cheap deaths (acid/water) and many were already identified as easy to farm and were camped 24/7.

Also there is a huge lack of wildlife (animal mobs) I saw not one in my 3 weeks of beta, and i never saw one dynamic (wandering) spawn though a few were reported (nut never confirmed)
And they dont loot players, which i thought was a key feature, but doesnt happen ever.

5) Map - While the game world is really well designed and at times beautiful, it is IMO way to small, contrary to the 8hrs across you can run on foot from one side of the main continent to the other in around 2hrs.
If you factor in the islands it takes a bit longer as swimming is slower, but travel is nowhere near as slow as it should be, and thats mainly down to sprinting, which bring me to my main 3 gripes.

6) Sprinting - Absolutely the most annoying and irritating game ruining feature of DF in my opinion. Combat is not exactly deep but it could be ok if it werent for the fact that every fight (even with the AI) descends into farce within seconds due to sprinting.
Sprinting is used all the time in combat and it makes every fight resemble a scene from Benny Hill, factor in lag and ping and sometimes fights are just downright painful, and no it wasnt cause i sucked at pvp, in fact i won more fights than i lost but thats besides the point, even when i won i felt no sense of achievment, no sense that id beaten someone with superior skill.
I had won cause i had managed to time my swings in a slightly more lucky fashion as we lagged and sprinted around in random directions attempting to hit each other.
Sprinting turns all combat into bizarre jousting competitions and is frankly bloody awful
Sprinting also totally devalues exploration and makes mobs a joke.

I read about people wanting to do exploration in big groups to avoid danger, well dont bother just stock up some cooked fish for stamina and you can run away from any mob you meet making all exploration just a matter of time rather than skill.
I could write about sprinting all day but i wont. Numerous 'fixes' have already been suggested and i can only hope the devs use them

7) Stamina - a bizarre system which often decides who wins a fight rather than health. Again this issue is linked to sprinting and whole threads have been devoted to it, it needs fixing imo

8) Combat - Due to a combination of the two above and lack of weapon diversity and balance combat is often one sided and bland, its frenetic and fun at times but really shallow and NOTHING Like Mount & blade or similar games.
More like CS on crack.

9) Racial balance - Is currently non existant for numerous reasons not least of all being stat inbalance and size making orks and mahirim totally pointless in melee.
Alfar are so small maharim have to fight looking at the floor to hit them, factor in players sprinting around like idiots and you can imagine what im getting at.
Alfar females are the powergamers choice for pvp

10) Rogue alignment system - needs to be totally scrapped, achieves nothing except allowing griefing. Would be better off with no system at all.

11) Solo play - Is basically boring and pointless after about 3 sessions of play

12) Builds - No one is different, everyone is just a variation on the same hybrid melee/archer/mage build, nothing else is currently viable.

Originally posted by Darkstar111

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

A scam is software that is not real.

Vaporware is software that has an unusual development cycle, and has not released.

Darkfall is vaporware until it releases, because of it's unusual development cycle.

It's going to release I am sure, and then it will be Redemptive Software.

Not much more to it than that.

 

U keep pushing that old tune. But the fact remains its simply not true:

 

From Computer Desktop Encyclopedia:

Vaporware

Software that is not yet in production, but the announced delivery date has long since passed.

 

Not yet in PRODUCTION...

 

Marketing Dictionary:

vaporware

Software that has been promised by a software designer but never delivered.

 

NEVER delivered...

 

Wikipedia:

Vaporware is a somewhat derogatory term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge

FAILS to emerge...

 

 In development does not equal Vaporware.

Get over it.

 

-Darkstar

 

 

 

Don't confuse IN PRODUCTION with IN DEVELOMENT. 

DF is IN DEVELOPMENT. Until the final release version is sent out for installation testing and prepared for placement on the intended media (CD, DVD, server for DL) is it not IN PRODUCTION. I've worked in the software industry for 24 years and I've seen projects go all the way through beta > release candidate and still get pulled at the last minute. Until customers are able to aquire a FINAL RELEASED version of the game, it can still beome vaporware.

The bottom line is that DF has had the potiental to become vaporware for years and still does, until we see what happens on the 25th. No apologies from anyone are required at this point.

It's great that Darkfall is coming.  And while I've never been one to say it wouldn't ever release, it's not great that we've been hearing about it for 7 years.  As far as I'm concerned, if I'm hearing hype about something now that may be out in 5+ years then it's as good as vapor to me. 

Originally posted by SignusM

I'm glad more unique MMOs are being made, the more the merrier. But I am a realist, I don't see Mortal Online coming out any time soon. You may be laughing your ass off because I supported Darkfall for so long, but everything Darkfall was doing was feasible, and anyone that did a bit of research could have told you it was coming out.

 

Mortal Online on the other hand, has one pre rendered gameplay movie that they claim is in game footage, with Crysis like graphics. They boast 12 hitboxes, large scale PvP encounters in an MMO evironment, with TWITCH combat. They are also trying this on the Unreal 3 engine. Can you say, lag?

They've already pushed back their estimated release date from Spring to summer, and the latest interview with them said they are just NOW said "We're testing arrow flights to see if they work across distance, it might be that lag will make it impossible to do". Yeah that sounds like a game releasing in a few months. Also, they have recently released alpha screenshots that look nothing like their pre rendered "in game footage". Go figure. Oh yeah, and they sell shirts and mugs.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think the game is vaporware, and I love that more unique MMOs are being made, but I don't see this one coming for a while, or if it does come soon, it smells kind of like Age of Conan. 

Call my a hypocrite if you want, I'm a realist. 

once again SignusM, you prove your ignorance about Mortal Online. what is this now, the fourth time i had to correct you about that game?

1) Mortal online never had a Spring release date. you are DEAD wrong. summer 2009 has been their release since the game was announced.

2) 10 hitboxes. not 12.

3) footage is not pre-rendered. it's scripted and rendered in real-time.

4) they don't sell mugs. only shirts.

5) the sceenshots look nothing like the trailer? are you kidding me? maybe the lighting's a little different...but that's it.

6) you are a hypocrite. you hate darkfall trolls than turn around and troll MO fans with incorrect information.

7) you probably won't even reply to this. just like the last time. enjoy your delusions anyway. ;)

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Zinzan

It may not be Vapourware, but it might still wind up as Shareware, Freeware or Abandonware

 

I guess you Vaporware trolls still have that to hope for.  I wouldn't have to much Blind Faith in that as you did in the Vaporware thing though. Didn't pan out well for you guys and didn't do anything for your campaigns credability.

So how much exactly did your sense of humour bypass cost?

Some people take things way too seriously

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Zinzan

It may not be Vapourware, but it might still wind up as Shareware, Freeware or Abandonware

 

I guess you Vaporware trolls still have that to hope for.  I wouldn't have to much Blind Faith in that as you did in the Vaporware thing though. Didn't pan out well for you guys and didn't do anything for your campaigns credability.

I love the ironic way you used the term 'Blind Faith'...

...what do you mean you don't know what irony means? 

 Sure... 

When it releases in my country.

Of course now its not vapor, it will either go the same way as the rest of the unfinished niche games, go free to play, or just disappear after 3 months of failed service.

I bet they are about to announce a further delay. Anyone else wants to bet?

Originally posted by huxflux2004

I bet they are about to announce a further delay. Anyone else wants to bet?

Not likely, but they should. The game isn t ready no matter how much the fanbois want it to be.

Originally posted by Leucent

Originally posted by huxflux2004

I bet they are about to announce a further delay. Anyone else wants to bet?

 

Not likely, but they should. The game isn t ready no matter how much the fanbois want it to be.

The game is ready  for release. It is stable and offers everything i have been waited for. This is an MMO and will further receive patches and updates and is not some singleplayer game box copy that will be sold and stop receiving developer  support ..the developer will constantly work on it ..

If you don't like it, don't play it , don't buy it..But i will buy it and i want it to release Feb 25 so i can start the real DF experience.. i don't mind if you part of the launch or not..

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by Leucent

Originally posted by huxflux2004

I bet they are about to announce a further delay. Anyone else wants to bet?

 

Not likely, but they should. The game isn t ready no matter how much the fanbois want it to be.

 

The game is ready  for release. It is stable and offers everything i have been waited for. This is an MMO and will further receive patches and updates and is not some singleplayer game box copy that will be sold and stop receiving developer  support ..the developer will constantly work on it ..

If you don't like it, don't play it , don't buy it..But i will buy it and i want it to release Feb 25 so i can start the real DF experience.. 

 

I m glad it offers everything you have been waiting for. I ll also say yes it s stable, not tested with 10 000 co current people of course. That will be a sight, but the game isn t ready at all. I saw it and I m convinced it isn t. You can think otherwise, thats fine. Opinions are allowed, but for a game claiming so much and isn t there, this is why I m saying it.