<< On Topic: So there is a difference between repetitive mindless PvE vs repetitive mindless PvP? >>

Repetitive PvP requires far more effort and skill in my experience.  PvE, once you've figured out how to beat something, it's just a matter of having everything lined up.  PvE is not necessarily easy but fights become very predictable and there are no surprises (just goofs).  In PVP there can always be surprises - which isn't saying there always are, but I don't think I've ever played two WSG matches that were even particularly close to the same (and I've played hundreds if not thousands of WSG matches).  Just like in chess or poker or any other competitive contest with seemingly limited variables/scope/options, there's more to it than beating really bad AI (unless you like playing games like those vs computers set to level 1).

THIS JUST IN....

I'm going to buy the game, try it, if I don't like it, I won't continue. If I do, I will :)

Everyone else will do some variation of this (except the fanatics on either side). No matter how many/much fanboi/hater elitists yammer on about this game it all means nothing until the gamers get their little paws on box and play it on release.

It has been amusing watching the 2 sides war about this for the last few months. That would actually be a decent game....forum warz. FFA flaming, utilizing the PA Internet Dickwad theory engine.

Originally posted by javac

...just summing up a couple of reviews i just read that TOTALLY missed the point of what Darkfall is about.

 

Darkfall is a sandbox-style PVP MMO -- if you want to run quests and do solo PVE content, DON'T BOTHER PLAYING IT.

 

Has to be said.

Something you might want to add? Even in hardcore games like EVE there isn't always PVP going on.  Yes a world can actually be WAY too big to the point that the majority of zones are non PVP period. People like to have something to do when PVP isn't actually happening and the only game where PVP is  happening 24/7 are FPS games online.

Best sand boxes are ashen empiers, rpgwo online, wurm and ultima online. Don't think Darkfall has quite lived up to any of these yet. A good game no doubt but the ebst sand box rpg it isn't.

Originally posted by Ruyn

Darkfall has PVE quests...but you want to know the real quests?

 

It's knowing that a specific clan sent a scouting party near your city the night before.  Knowing an attack is imenent.  Your quest, should you choose to accept it, is to defend your city (one that took countless manhours to build up), attack their city, form an alliance, etc...That's the real quest.  That's the real drama.

Not none of this, kill 10 boars crap.  Think outside the box if you guys will and get in the sandbox.

It's kind of sad that so many people that play mmo's nowadays got their feet wet with WOW. They have been brainwashed to think, that is how all mmo's should work.

It's really a shame that alot of people just can't realize that DF is not a easy and defined game such as WOW and a host of other mmo's.

It's harsh and brutal and is meant to take alot of time and effort to raise your skills.

Don't get me wrong, i enjoyed WOW and took it for what it was. The thing about DF that has me so interested is that it reminds me alot of how SWG use to be.

Even though there were mission terminals, most skills were gained by killing oddball amimal lairs and such.

PVP was everywhere and it was pure fun and if you were a jedi the massive xp loss was harsh, the same way the full loot is in this game.

So, the main point i'm trying to get across is, if DF doesn't look like your cup of tea, then don't purchase it. Why come into this forum and bash a game that you don't like. Seems pointless to me.

Once more we see people comparing a game that isnt out to an established successful game. Hey i was really looking forward  to DF until I watched the recent you tube beta video.  I understand what DF is supposed to be, but until it actually is you dont have a leg to stand on when compareing to any other game out there. Let this game come out and prove itself and then come back and talk smack about WoW and those of us who enjoy playing it.

Originally posted by javac

Originally posted by fyerwall

But he has a PhD in something, surely he is smarter than us all

 

lol! jealousy is a curse.

And vanity is a sin

90% of DF fanbois couldn't hack it in EVE and wanted something easier. 

Macro skilling FTW.

BTW, I don't think the lack of quests have confused anyone, but the lack of mobs (or strategic placement if you will) has definitely thrown them for a loop.  Most MMO's are littered with mobs everywhere, and it appears that's not the model DF chose.

Originally posted by brostyn

If you think Unreal Tournament = sandbox, then Darkall is sandbox. Darkfall is Unreal Tournament that you can run around in. Nothing more. In EVE there are a million things to do besides PVP. Even in PvP there are tons of different options. These don't exist in Darkfall.

 

I think you don't understand what sandbox means.

I guess this is what most ppl are losing sight of imo...

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Originally posted by javac

...just summing up a couple of reviews i just read that TOTALLY missed the point of what Darkfall is about.

 

Darkfall is a sandbox-style PVP MMO -- if you want to run quests and do solo PVE content, DON'T BOTHER PLAYING IT.

 

Has to be said.

 

You know...this may have been avoided if Aventurine had actually promoted the game as JUST that. A game for PvPers and NOTHING MORE.

 

But no....according to Aventurine and the more extreme followers, the game is EVERYTHING. It#s PvE heaven because of dynamic mob-spawns, superior Mob AI and so on. It is crafter heaven, because of the infinately complex but easy crafting. It is RPers heaven because...well, I never understood that one, but yeah.

 

DF brought this on itself. Aventurine advertised the game as the be all and end all of games. Go to their official Homepage and you will still see they claim to be over the top in EVERY aspect of gameplay...not just PvP.

This is true. Personally, I compare DF with UO interms of style of play, how it's skill based, and you even loot the same way u did in UO, lol.. UO didn't really have a strong PvE centered content, it was mainly pvp, crafting, and a second job if you did things right, :P  It had PvE, but not as extreme as in games like EQ, WoW, LOTRO, etc.

Personally, I think DF will be very similar to UO BUT will also have better PvE content than UO did. *shrug*  It's still going to be a fun game to play for those that understand and appreciate what the game is.

Originally posted by javac

...just summing up a couple of reviews i just read that TOTALLY missed the point of what Darkfall is about.

 

Darkfall is a sandbox-style PVP MMO -- if you want to run quests and do solo PVE content, DON'T BOTHER PLAYING IT.

 

Has to be said.

/Signed

Quest are rare in Darkfall.

Originally posted by Polarization

I agree many people will be confused by the lack of quests especially after reading Darkfalls official list of features.

I don?t like PvP, why should I even consider trying out Darkfall?

If you give it a chance, you?ll discover that Darkfall is an extremely well rounded game. For example, there?s as much effort going into the quest engine and the crafting process, as there is going into the combat design.

Darkfall features the ultimate player based economy, more useful trade skills than any other released MMORPG to date, advanced NPC and monster AI, and a quest engine constantly creating new and challenging content.

Furthermore, the game world is huge; you could move to a remote area with your friends and try to create a safe haven for other like-minded players.

Of course like 90% of the features listed in the official FAQ and 90% of what the developers have been saying for the last decade its all total BS.

But now its not just a wish list of BS to get the supporters hyped up anymore, its now also false advertisement and a bait and switch scam.

 I was just looking through the features list.  It still matches up to what the devs have been saying.  Same game as far as I can tell.  I know individual housing is out at the moment; hopefully not permenantly.  What else in the FAQ is missing?

From what I can gather a lot of the content is generated by the players; some of it literally has to be built by them. 

Crafting, harvesting, building, player run economy, aren't we supposed to eventually be able to hire NPC to guard our towns, and to be merchants?  Aren't all these things PvE? 

PvE doesn't have to be a quest.  No one has to tell me to go kill the orcs holding up in the ruins not from from were my clan is trying to settle.  PvE doesn't have to be a string of quests, it doensn't have to be an NPC that telling me to explore a dungeon.

In WoW I can go to an NPC and get a quest to go kill stuff someplace because someone is in need of something.  I get a story, and I'm given my purpose.  I go and I kill and then I come back and that NPC gives me something for doing something for him.

In DF, it it works the way it's supposed to, I and a group of others can settle in an area.  In that area could be a group of somethings that already live there.  They are hostile, they don't like us there.  I will kill them and my reward should be that my clan are a little safer.  The story belonged to me; not a farmer who's child was abducted by trogs and needs you to kill 10 of them until you find a ribbon that belonged to her, only to run back to the farmer show him what you got and then be asked to go and kill the trogs leader to avenge the farmers daughter.

Some people like to have thousands of quests asking you to go do the same thing a thousand other people did before you.  Some people don't feel rewarded or accomplised if they aren't given direction. 
Challenging content can mean that at some point a dragon could deside to inhabit a part of the world.  A large group of monsters could take up residence, or start pillaging a city.  What do you consider challenging content?  I dought that anyone is expecting DF to have instanced dungeons or raids.  A new crafting recipe that's hard to obtain and requires rare mats would be challenging content.  Or are NPC's the only form of content in a game anymore?  If mobs aren't littered all over the place the moment I step out of a town is the game missing content?  Or is there no content if there aren't a thousand NPC's all asking me to kill some number of those thousands of mobs?  

WoW world PvP consisted of fighting anonther player, the mob he agroed, the one I agroed and then the one that just spawned in the middle of it all.  It's pretty annoying having to fend of mobs while I'm pvping.  Thank god I don't see mobs all over the place in the DF videos.  I prefer intelligent and strategically place mob spawns.  Mobs should have a dynamic in the world, they should serve a purpose other then providing quest givers with directions to give.  From what I understand, and what I hope that I'm seeing, is that DF mobs inhabit parts of the world; they aren't just put there so that 100 players have 10 of them to kill while they endlessly respawn for the next 100 players. 

The FAQ does say that there is wildlife, animals and even insects.  I'm hoping it's some of the things that are "turned off".  We'll see.

Some things I found on the features page:

Meet hundreds of unique monsters, and take them on in their lairs, strongholds and domains. Repetitive monster encounters are a thing of the past.

Is Darkfall a Player vs. Player (PvP) game?
Calling Darkfall a PvP game would be selling it short. Of course there?s going to be a lot of PvP combat and the combat gameplay will be as fast paced and fun as a first person shooter, but the focus of the game is kingdom building, clan warfare, and conquest. The battles will be epic and will require a lot more than just PvP skill to be won. Darkfall is as much a social, a real-time strategy, and a fantasy role playing game, as it is a PvP game.
 

My brother played UO a lot, had 2 accounts, loved to write scripts for macros and such. 
He would log in, be at his house, and sew.  For hours.  Or he would get on a boat and fish or something.  Maybe it was sit on his boat and sew, not really sure.

A guy I played WoW with, had a pig farm or something.
In fact, every person I know that has played UO did everything of thier own accord, and none of it ever involved being a quest an npc gave them.  

I guess what's good for the goose isn't so good for the gander, or something... 

I will probably love this game.  The number one thing I hated most about WoW was quest grind.  I couldn't get past level 30 (and I'm really surprised that I got to that level) because all I had to look forward to was more questing... and then more quests after I finished questing.  And then quests in instances.  Followed by quests.  And then another quest or two for desert.

Originally posted by brostyn

If you think Unreal Tournament = sandbox, then Darkall is sandbox. Darkfall is Unreal Tournament that you can run around in. Nothing more. In EVE there are a million things to do besides PVP. Even in PvP there are tons of different options. These don't exist in Darkfall.

 

I think you don't understand what sandbox means.

So your saying that Darkfalls mobs have as good an AI as the Bots in UT?

Just trying to clarify, because that would be a big plus.

Thanks

Originally posted by xiirot

I will probably love this game.  The number one thing I hated most about WoW was quest grind.  I couldn't get past level 30 (and I'm really surprised that I got to that level) because all I had to look forward to was more questing... and then more quests after I finished questing.  And then quests in instances.  Followed by quests.  And then another quest or two for desert.

I hear ya brotha! I've palyed EQ, Eq2, DAOC, WoW, Vanguard, etc and most of those games was a constant quest/mob grind throughout your career. Don't get me wrong, I do LOVE PvE content, but I also miss the style and exciting pvp gameplay mechanics from UO. If I want quests, quests, and more quests, followed by a nice heavy dosage of incredible dungeon crawling, I'll go back to LOTRO. For now, I'm ready to sink my teeth into DF. I'll enjoy the game because I understand the true concept behind the game. I know what I want to accomlish in the game,a dn what I plan on accomplishing you can't really do in any other MMO besides UO and Shadowbane.

I don't think darkfall would be getting so much flak is the gameplay didnt look so damn terrible.

Originally posted by miagisan

Originally posted by //\\//\\oo

Originally posted by javac

Originally posted by miagisan

90% of DF fanbois have an elitism and superiority complex issues.

90% of DF fans don't give a shit.

 

100% of DF fans are wondering why carebears are even interested in Darkfall anyway, there's plenty of games with mindless, repetitive PVE content for you to enjoy.

 

  Yeah, like using the same skill over and over again to level! 

 Those grinds are so stupid. Any game that makes you use the same skill for hours on end to progress is stupid. As long as it's skill based advancement you don't need different mobs to kill, just empty space to cast your magic missile at! 

The developers have left it up to your own imagination to create a target instead of just babying you with npc models from expensive artists.

 

hehehe i was waiting for someone to add that, hence why i said the op was being mocked. Darkfall is the biggest grind ever.....bigger than any "carebear" game.

 

Have fun with your PEW PEW laser towers........

Off-topic :

miagisan, it seems all you do is sit in the Darkfall forums and wait for someone to post something in there. And then from there proceed to read any brand new posts that are up and then post a response that is in some way bashing the game. What exactly are you trying to accomplish? Are you just trying to make sure no one buys the game? Do you have some secret grudge against Darfall/Aventurine? Or is it that you just simply dislike the game?

I just want to know what your motive is to keep posting in the Darkfall forums and keep posting the same stuff over and over again. It is quite obvious that you dislike/hate this game. And so why do you keep coming back here? Seriously.

Waiting for your response and hopefully you can answer the questions I asked. And I hope you dont decide to come back with saying im a 'fanboy'.

     The problem with most sandbox games I have played is that what is there to do really?? UO had a few things to do to keep you occupied a little while but overall got boring fast.......Ryzom had sandbox play but after a couple days you only find yourself digging and crafting........ The reason why most sandbox games dont do all that great is that players like to have goals and other things to achieve in the game....... Other than finding a guild a building a city what is there really to accomplish in Darkfall?? Yep you got it go kill noobs and other players and try to ruin their gameplay.........

Originally posted by //\\//\\oo

You're completely right: Damn those WoW fanbois for wanting actual content and a storyline in the game! 

The really good players don't need quests, because they can make them up for themselves and craft everything as their rewards. Come on people, let's get started on the quest lines! 

 

Story in an MMO is retarded.  Worst waste of resources EVER!!

Originally posted by Theocritus

     The problem with most sandbox games I have played is that what is there to do really?? UO had a few things to do to keep you occupied a little while but overall got boring fast.......Ryzom had sandbox play but after a couple days you only find yourself digging and crafting........ The reason why most sandbox games dont do all that great is that players like to have goals and other things to achieve in the game....... Other than finding a guild a building a city what is there really to accomplish in Darkfall?? Yep you got it go kill noobs and other players and try to ruin their gameplay.........

Other than getting purple items, what is the point of every other MMO?