Originally posted by spades07

 

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Originally posted by Nightbringe1

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Originally posted by spades07

 

 

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Originally posted by Volkmar
 
BTW, the average GAMER age is 30 years old. This is for all video games across the whole world as released by a very reputable statistic report compiled annually on video games and video gamers.

 

 

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Average age 30? Do you believe that? I don't. You got a heavy number of gamers from 18-30, and how dense is the population of gamers over 30? I think it will be more weighted to average under 30.

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Something you fail to realize. The generation in the process of turning 40 is the generation responsible for the popularity of vidio games. They never stopped playing just because they passed some magic age marker.
That same generation is far more likely to have the disposable income to purchase games than a teenager.

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I call bull to be honest. Yes there are 30 somethings/40 somethings with games consoles, but the core is under that. You mention teenagers having not much money- but that's where 30/40 something parents will be buying them especially around christmas. (which is general peak game selling time) No, sorry I don't believe the average age is 30.

And you're basing that on what exactly?

Speaking as a 31 year old gamer:

My girlfriend is a 28 year old gamer.
My brother is a 34 year old gamer.
My sister in law is a 37 year old gamer.
My best friend is a 38 year old gamer.
My boss is a 42 year old gamer.
My father is a 56 year old gamer.

Nightbringe1 is bang on; video games became popular ~20 years ago and have never become unpopular. The people who started playing them back them are still playing then today. You don't hit 30 and suddenly decide that you'd rather be watching TV instead of playing computer games; to even suggest such a ridiculous thing is rank ignorance.

And remember, it's an average age .. there are still people playing games who are well into their 80s. I sure as hell hope I'm still able to play games when I hit retirement age.

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Nightbringe1 is bang on; video games became popular ~20 years ago and have never become unpopular. The people who started playing them back them are still playing then today. You don't hit 30 and suddenly decide that you'd rather be watching TV instead of playing computer games; to even suggest such a ridiculous thing is rank ignorance.

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And what do I base it on- as I say the peak game selling time is at christmas- ask yourself why? Also, maybe when I next go into a gaming shop am I going to expect 1 out of 2 visitors there to be over 30? It strangely isn't the case- oh unless you're going to say they all buy them online..

Why did Blizzard make WoW a cartoon world?

Becouse evrything blizzard does is based of the warhammer series of tabletop games, and even in WC-RTS the creatures and graphics were based of the style of the warhammer minitures.

Originally posted by spades07

 

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Nightbringe1 is bang on; video games became popular ~20 years ago and have never become unpopular. The people who started playing them back them are still playing then today. You don't hit 30 and suddenly decide that you'd rather be watching TV instead of playing computer games; to even suggest such a ridiculous thing is rank ignorance.

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Not really, some people do grow out of gaming.

 

And what do I base it on- as I say the peak game selling time is at christmas- ask yourself why? Also, maybe when I next go into a gaming shop am I going to expect 1 out of 2 visitors there to be over 30? It strangely isn't the case- oh unless you're going to say they all buy them online..

I'm sure some do, just as I'm sure that some (older) non-gamers become gamers.

And yes, as it happens .. I buy all my games online; they're generally cheaper and I'm never in such a rush for a game that I don't mind waiting a couple of days for it when I've paid 10-20% less.

I don't feel it necessary to prolong this wee debate (since it's OT in this thread) but suffice to say, I put more store in officially compiled, properly researched statistics than I do in one person's subjective opinion based on little more than anecdotal evidence.

Originally posted by Teganx

Originally posted by Inzra

I thought there were more grownups than kids playing mmo's actually, but I dunno.

Well it's too late to change anything now, just think it's a shame the world didn't get to see a realistic Azeroth, it could have been very good art and captivating.

I'm just saying, since the reason i try to get away from WoW is the graphics. The gameplay is ok I guess, but it could have been better too.

Well, just my thoughts.

 

have you not read any of the posts above you? the art direction they used is the same as every other warcraft game. and i dont find it childish, i find it charming, which fits the world perfectly.

 

 

Why do you think I didn't read them? I still think WoW looks like the most childish mmo I ever played.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

OP:

1. For Lore look at www.wowwiki.com  70.000 pages of info and mostly filled  with lore descriptions of the Warcraft universe. Coming from the games, the dozens of books, comics and RPG.

Did you know for instance that Goldshire has a population of 7.000 (RPG game info).

2. Perhaps I am the only one in this thread to realise it (and that should be sad), but this style of visuals and realism is the ONLY one working decently in MMORPG's these days. Our servers, our client machines and our internet lines just can't cope with so called "realistic high settings" we see in games like CoD or other "pre loaded" games.

To have realistic "fights" would mean FAR more data to be transferred from and to the client graphics cards and the above limit on hardware is not up to it in an mmorpg, where millions of data have to be transferred NOT only through the clients PC's (HardDisk--> video memory), but also from server to client.

Remember all interaction data come also from the server connection, like "blocking" or lines of sight, battle resolution, stats from all avatars, of course graphics are more a client related issue, but you have to count everything in.

Just the simple add on of achievements made for a very heavy extra "burdon" on the number of data being transferred and being accounted for.

So, that's the very simple reason even newer not even published MMORPG's choose for the simpler data solutions (like KOTOR). AoC is a very good example that let everyone show why they could NOT include 100vs100 fights with 2008/2009 technology.

So it is simple: Blizzard worked within the limitations of present technology (and btw Hard Disks STILL spin around at 7200 rpm on the average client machine just like they did back in 2004 and yes we still don't have 16 GByte of interal RAM).

Blizzard "checks " every month your machine's data btw. The famous "collecting system info" and they can pretty good see where the average park is at the moment. The result is that most of us had to downgrade a few graphics settings to get good frame rates again (mostly shadow off) in WotLK.

"Realistic" graphics is just asking for more trouble and a more faster aging process of the game's visuals.

Is it that hard to decrese the size of elves ears...?

Do you really think I meant that Goldshire should have some 7000 NPC's...?

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Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

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Originally posted by spades07

 

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Nightbringe1 is bang on; video games became popular ~20 years ago and have never become unpopular. The people who started playing them back them are still playing then today. You don't hit 30 and suddenly decide that you'd rather be watching TV instead of playing computer games; to even suggest such a ridiculous thing is rank ignorance.

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Not really, some people do grow out of gaming.
 
And what do I base it on- as I say the peak game selling time is at christmas- ask yourself why? Also, maybe when I next go into a gaming shop am I going to expect 1 out of 2 visitors there to be over 30? It strangely isn't the case- oh unless you're going to say they all buy them online..

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I'm sure some do, just as I'm sure that some (older) non-gamers become gamers.
And yes, as it happens .. I buy all my games online; they're generally cheaper and I'm never in such a rush for a game that I don't mind waiting a couple of days for it when I've paid 10-20% less.
I don't feel it necessary to prolong this wee debate (since it's OT in this thread) but suffice to say, I put more store in officially compiled, properly researched statistics than I do in one person's subjective opinion based on little more than anecdotal evidence.

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Opinions are generally subjective and I did put in something that wasn't anecdotal, I noted you avoided. I also like you take how much faith in the 'officially compiled, properly researched stats', when you know little of what it was based on. But whatever. After an interesting inquiry I have found out that more 30-somethings are into gaming more than I thought, but I'd still argue the average age was under 30. (though browser-based games that are higher popular at workplaces amongst over50s during people's lunch hour really should not count)

Why? because that was how the old Warcrat universe looked in Warcraft I, II, and III. And considering the game had such a huge following, a lot of people would have been angry had they changed the look of the game. WOW's graphics were not designed to be the best or be perfect, they were designed to be a continuation of the classic RTS Warcraft games of the past.

Originally posted by Kurush

Originally posted by Inzra

I'm considering returning to WoW - in lack of something better. Unfortunately I couldn't find my WoW disc's, they are at a different location, and since I've started to try out RP'ing and is planning to roll on an RP realm this time, I decided to read some WoW lore and history of Warcraft.

And I'm surprised that it's pretty good actually, I found it interesting to read and related to places I've played ingame earlier.

www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/story/   I never even bothered reading it before since I felt no need for it on general servers.

I just wonder, why the heck did they make this story and universe into a silly cartoon world, what comes to mind is the elves with their extreme ears especially, the stories give a much better impression of them. I rember playing WoW the elves where a hated breed, perhaps because of some of the players... but they also look silly.

Not to menton the dancing that is taken from very RL stuff, makes the whole thing look childish compard to the story.

Yea I'm the kind of player that do care about the visuals, otherwise I wouldn't notice the cartoony style that much. But if the game had the more realistic feel like the cinematic trailers give (not as detailed ofc) maybe people wouldn't grow so tired of the visuals.

Just think it's to bad

 

"But if the game had the more realistic feel like the cinematic trailers give (not as detailed ofc) maybe people wouldn't grow so tired of the visuals."

What people, huh?  Yeah, WoW's graphics have really held it back.  If only they had gone for realism, then maybe it would have been successful!  What a dismal failure it has been because people grew tired of the visuals.  Oh wait, your personal opinion isn't necessarily universal.  If you're going to try to represent the opinion of the WoW playerbase, there are actual complaints that many people have at present.

1.  Hardcore raiders feel WotLK content so far is too easy.

2.  Arena players hate being forced to BG.

3.  Other PvP'ers hate being forced to arena.

I could really go on for pages on things that WoW players actually dislike.  Believe me, the entire WoW forums are filled with 90% bitching in the PvP, class role, and class forums.  Nobody cares about what you're talking about, though.  If they did, they wouldn't play.  People don't last long in games whose art style they hate.  That's the one universal law of MMORPG's.  If you fuck up the art, good luck retaining players.

The graphics aren't one of the things that WoW players think about a lot, even though there are flaws.  Guess what?  Everybody knows the graphics aren't technically impressive.  Do you think I didn't notice the pentagonal wheels on a wagon when I first logged in as a human?  Do you think I didn't notice how the trees in some of the pre-BC areas are little more than an angled cube with translucent "leaf" textures on each side?  I did.  Everybody did.  Everybody has seen these things.  The point is that the art is stylized, and on the whole, people will accept decent art and crappy technical quality over the converse.

Sure, I'd love it if they improved the technical quality while retaining the art quality.  Everybody would.  Then again, there are a whole lot of WoW players whose computers couldn't handle that.  That was a strategic move on Blizzard's part.

Look at a game like EQ2.  That's a fair comparison, since they both released at the same time.  In my opinion, most of the models for EQ2 look like plastic.  The only good ones are the races added by the expansions.  The new races do look good, but since EQ2 went for realism, I can't help but notice when things are not realistic.  They just seem flawed.  When I look at the fae characters in EQ2, the faces are detailed and far more realistic than those of WoW, but I couldn't help but notice that the forehead didn't naturally transition into the nose.  Rather than a smooth curve, the top part of the nose is a little too broad.  That one little flaw stands out on each face I see of that race.  On a realism scale, WoW's characters are far more grotesque, but that's ok because they're stylized.  They're not supposed to be real, so I don't notice it.

Adding insult to injury was that EQ2 had massively higher (extremely high for its time of release) system requirements.

And WoW did do some things right on the visual end.  Compared to other games of the era, WoW's animations were superb.  EQ2's combat animations are frankly terrible.

There are plenty of people fed up with WoW graphics, but alot endure them in lack of something else, like me.

But if the graphics were more realistic it might have been easier for us to stay.

Originally posted by Spiritof55

Originally posted by Inzra

I'm considering returning to WoW - in lack of something better. Unfortunately I couldn't find my WoW disc's, they are at a different location, and since I've started to try out RP'ing and is planning to roll on an RP realm this time, I decided to read some WoW lore and history of Warcraft.

And I'm surprised that it's pretty good actually, I found it interesting to read and related to places I've played ingame earlier.

www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/story/   I never even bothered reading it before since I felt no need for it on general servers.

I just wonder, why the heck did they make this story and universe into a silly cartoon world, what comes to mind is the elves with their extreme ears especially, the stories give a much better impression of them. I rember playing WoW the elves where a hated breed, perhaps because of some of the players... but they also look silly.

Not to menton the dancing that is taken from very RL stuff, makes the whole thing look childish compard to the story.

Yea I'm the kind of player that do care about the visuals, otherwise I wouldn't notice the cartoony style that much. But if the game had the more realistic feel like the cinematic trailers give (not as detailed ofc) maybe people wouldn't grow so tired of the visuals.

Just think it's to bad

 

Wow is based on the warcraft series of games.  How did you expect it to look? 

What is too bad is how you can't appreciate a game unless its shiny.  Then again that is the majority of the console crowd.  They're all about the shiny, pvp and voice chat.  Lets dumb it all down because games aren't fun unless they drop my frame rate due to overblown graphics and lets me gank lowbies while bragging about it in voice chat.  Typing must be a handicap for alot of you.

I have no love for eye candy whores

So I can't appreciate a game I don't think is shiny? Why do you think I left AoC and went back to WoW? Gameplay issue.

But the graphics in AoC was one of the important reasons I chose to play it, but not the only one.

Try not to judge people you clearly don't know...

Originally posted by Inzra

I just wonder, why the heck did they make this story and universe into a silly cartoon world,

They were going for mainstream appeal.  Super Mario Bros, Disney animated movies and Pixar were what they used as a template.  I would also bet Disneyland and Disneyworld, Six Flags, etc were studied as well. 

Plus you don't need near as many polygons to render cartoon style graphics.

I

The reason why it looks cartoony is because it is made to resemble the Warcraft RTS games. The buildings and characters are exactly the same but in a larger scale.

My guess for this decision would be to create a low requirement engine that would be playable by the vast majority of computers out there. The more people able to play, the more customers they are going to get. Just look at how many kids the game has. I seriously doubt all of them have top notch rigs. Most of them sit at hand-me-down pc's.

I personally prefer my game with a better looking artstyle but if you are to make a successful mmorpg that brings in millions of subscribers, you also have to make something most people can run. Not cater to the 5% of  8 Core Quad Sli PC's out there.

Originally posted by Zayne3145

Originally posted by altairzq

Originally posted by Zayne3145

Whether it is 'cartoony' or not is purely subjective. As Blizzard have stated before, they tend to use a stylised art style as it ages better. Personally I love their style, but that's just personal taste. I don't really like realistic-looking MMO's because they tend to be dull and uninspired, and I'm not that keen on anime - but I can't quite put my finger on why. If you're one of those people to whom WoW graphics really grate, then I would probably advise you don't play it. To those that love WoW, the stylised, high-fantasy setting is all part of the appeal. If you're missing that attraction then it's not for you.

 

stylize
One entry found.

Main Entry:
styl·ize Listen to the pronunciation of stylize
Pronunciation:
\?st?(-?)-?l?z\
Function:
transitive verb
Inflected Form(s):
styl·ized; styl·iz·ing
Date:
1898

: to conform to a conventional style ; specifically : to represent or design according to a style or stylistic pattern rather than according to nature or tradition
— styl·i·za·tion Listen to the pronunciation of stylization \?st?-l?-?z?-sh?n\ noun

cartoony
One entry found.

Main Entry:
car·toon Listen to the pronunciation of cartoon
Pronunciation:
\kär-?tün\
Function:
noun
Usage:
often attributive
Etymology:
Italian cartone pasteboard, cartoon, augmentative of carta leaf of paper — more at card
Date:
1671

1: a preparatory design, drawing, or painting (as for a fresco)2 a: a drawing intended as satire, caricature, or humor <a political cartoon> b: comic strip3: animated cartoon4: a ludicrously simplistic, unrealistic, or one-dimensional portrayal or version <the film's villain is an entertaining cartoon>
 

It's stylized in a cartoony style. What you say makes no sense.

 

I didn't state that I thought WoW was cartoony. I said that people might perceive it to be so. I think it is stylised and NOT cartoony, but that is just my personal opinion. Even if I had called it 'cartoony and stylised' this would still be a perfectly acceptable description and  not the contradiction you might think it is. Art is not so easily defined by a set of rules or criteria.

What I tried to point is that  "stylized" means "conformed to a certain style". So per se doesn't mean anything, you have to say which style. And in this case, it is a cartoony style.

Originally posted by Inzra

I'm considering returning to WoW - in lack of something better. Unfortunately I couldn't find my WoW disc's, they are at a different location, and since I've started to try out RP'ing and is planning to roll on an RP realm this time, I decided to read some WoW lore and history of Warcraft.

And I'm surprised that it's pretty good actually, I found it interesting to read and related to places I've played ingame earlier.

www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/story/   I never even bothered reading it before since I felt no need for it on general servers.

I just wonder, why the heck did they make this story and universe into a silly cartoon world, what comes to mind is the elves with their extreme ears especially, the stories give a much better impression of them. I rember playing WoW the elves where a hated breed, perhaps because of some of the players... but they also look silly.

Not to menton the dancing that is taken from very RL stuff, makes the whole thing look childish compard to the story.

Yea I'm the kind of player that do care about the visuals, otherwise I wouldn't notice the cartoony style that much. But if the game had the more realistic feel like the cinematic trailers give (not as detailed ofc) maybe people wouldn't grow so tired of the visuals.

Just think it's to bad

They made World of Warcraft look like the world of Warcaft. It's that simple. Look at the Warcraft games. =)

 The only thing childish here is not liking cartoons because of certain age.

I'm pretty confident that Blizzard could pull off a much more detailed world (even surpassing AoC) holding the same open world principles of today. The main limitation is the player demographic and their computers, not the ability of the company to produce an open world with beautiful vistas. For example, LOTRO is two notches ahead of WoW in terms of world beauty and landscapes is concerned (maily due to directX 10 implementation). But since MS Windows Vista are not widespread and Blizzard wants their game accessible to pretty much anyone operating some form of PC these days, the graphics requirements are kept artificially low.

I'm hoping that Aion will become a serious contender. It seems that Blizzard needs the competition to produce more content (no competition from AoC, same old graphics)(minor competition from LOTRO, same recoloured clothes)(minor competition from WAR, Wintergrasp created for WoW).

Overall the graphics (for me) are bearable, barely. I kind of wish they were upgraded to WAR standards though, in terms of polygon count. The phasing technology is great, especially combined with good storytelling. They have also added some more environmental details compared to the the previous expansion. The world is definitely interesting when you explore it via ground mount. It's just a bit sad that it becomes a blur once you start zooming around with the very fast flying mounts.

Sorry it took so long, but I had read that report much time ago, some corrections are in order.

First of all here is the link, the report is one commisioned by ISFE to Nielsen, a comprehensive study of video games and gamers across EUROPE, so sorry when I said it was worldwide.

http://www.isfe-eu.org/index.php?oidit=T001:662b16536388a7260921599321365911

The document is freely downloadable either entirely or just the key facts.

Still, You can imagine the US situation would be quite similar if not exactly identical.

Another thing to consider is that the minimum age of gamer considered is 16, anyone younger than that is out of the scope, so you may consider that will alter the statistics.

Still, in the 16+ category we see that the AVERAGE gamer age in the UK is 38 years old, in Finland it is 32 and in Spain is 28. Those three nations were taken as a sample of whole Europe, UK representing the country with the most video gamers, Finland representing a middle point and Spain representing the mediterranean, more traditionalist (in entertainment) countries so with a bit less videogamers.

Another interesting statistic is the prevalence of parents playing with  children with videogames, there are a LOT of those, much more than I thought possible (even knowing that if I would have a kid, I would play with him/her as much as made possible by work and other duties, I'm 31, my wife is 33).

You got the document, read away if interested, it is quite extensive research and quite up-to.date as it was done in 2008 with 2007 data.

it fits perfectly into the warcraft art style of the previous 3 (plus expansions) games.

as for the RL and game influences in the world, its all to keep people playing and help them understand things by using well known images/names to portrey lore (or information).  It works...

i personally like the art style blizzard goes with, yes i'm a fan of all their games.  But i do think it would be awesome if they released a more visually realistic version of the game for those with powerful comps, kinda like what eve did and i think a couple other mmo's did.

of course its a money thing in the end and i wonder how many would be willing to pay more for them to make it happen heh.

(in before blizzard is greedy and should just give us what we want for free)

Fair or not.. still looks ugly..

I wish they had better graphics... even though gameplay>graphics

/Ely