Originally posted by Hotjazz

Originally posted by warty

 IF the game is ready, over a year ago tasos said that the ai was hella tough. in fact it was SO GOOD it was testing the game for them! How tested can it be if its so good that right at the end of development they SIGNIFICANTLY improved it?

Why wont any trol.err fan of the game respond to this? DARKFALL FANS I AM LOOKING AT YOU

 

Erm...Tasos lied and you belived him?

 

The AI can be a pain, and I don`t really like that part. If I could chose I would like to fight a bugged mob that was standing still and didn`t do any damage. Those were my favourit mobs when I played WOW, because it was easy to gain weaponskill from them.

 

You have to remember most of us don`t really like the PvE part that much, and the only reason we fight them is for skillgain and money.  We like to fight opponents with a brain. 

Lum recently commented on the whole "make AI smart" bit and he makes a good point about it. His statements, I think have solid ground.

Snippet (thanks Lum):

It would be ridiculously easy to make mobs smarter. “Hey, I need to always kill the guy healing people. No, really. Screw you, taunt skill. I’M KILLING THIS GUY. Oh, I’m getting some friends to help. In fact we’re going to loop around from behind to take them by surprise. AND WE’RE NOT STOPPING TILL WE WIN.” It would be the equivalent of That Dungeon Master Guy you all hate who takes great, sadistic, and Aspergian glee in making sure “his” players always die horribly.

This is not an experience people will pay for. Game design, in many ways, is convincing players that they won a struggle against imposing odds. It does not mean actually creating imposing odds.

Also, I have seen metrics prove conclusively, time and time and time and time again, that in a game that *does* have monsters with decent AI and that use strategies that require some thought to defeat, that players will avoid them in droves and seek out the ones with the most brain damaged AI possible.

Players dislike challenge. They SAY they like challenge. They lie.
 

Anyway. I do not believe, not one little bit, that these guys at aventurine were testing thier own game with an in-house AI. They may have done some research into scripted encounters between mobs with pre programmed opposing polarity but thats about it. Probably not much more than any other dev team. Making AI fight each other makes for a nice little teaser trailer (which they havent come up with one yet) and pre alpha combat stabilities, but yeah. whoopde-doo.

Tasos is a big fat liar. Plain and simple.

I sincerely hope DF turns out to be a good game. There is still some market for sandbox gameplay. But I swear to God this Tasos character looks like a gawddamm fraud. Has anyone seen the back of mister flamingoblahblah's neck yet? There might be a zipper there. Look close. A John Smedley can take on many different forms.

The fanboys will preorder it.

The haters will bash it till the end of times.

The game will speak for itself once / if it comes out.

Woooot I'm smart

Originally posted by alakram

The fanboys will preorder it.

The haters will bash it till the end of times.

The game will speak for itself once / if it comes out.

Woooot I'm smart

Has it not spoken for itself already?

Its lengthy time in development. The obvious untruths communicated by its spokesperson over the years. The lack of, or the uncertainty of a reputable publisher. Little information on pay structure or billing. System reqs? Regional release dates? A complete website? Bueller...... Bueller..... Bueller......

Im not hating here. Really. Im doing my damndest not to.

First: Darkfall is a MMO for sandbox PvP fans. If you dont like either of that, you will hate it.

Secondly: DF is ready for launch. Dont listen to the trolls and haters. They want people to believe its another WAR or somthing. Its not an emty world and the AI is nothing as we have seen before.

Last: Its no secret that Aventurine is a small developer. Even WoW was broken it release (we played beta in the american servers). So dont expect a small indie developer to launch a perfect MMO...the first months. If you belive that, maybe you should stop caring about MMOs completely.

Beta leaks can be good to read you know.

Originally posted by Hotjazz 

We like to fight opponents with a brain. 

Well, then at least we know Tasos is safe from you.

Originally posted by Zorvan

Originally posted by Hotjazz 

We like to fight opponents with a brain. 

 

Well, then at least we know Tasos is safe from you.

That's a lie, he has a Pentium 2 1.3 GHZ with 128 MBs of RAM in his head. So please stop the the Tasos hate, OK?

BTW: DF is still Vapourware until it releases, which is sometime after Satan purchases a snow plough!

Originally posted by Precursor

Originally posted by Hotjazz

Originally posted by warty

 IF the game is ready, over a year ago tasos said that the ai was hella tough. in fact it was SO GOOD it was testing the game for them! How tested can it be if its so good that right at the end of development they SIGNIFICANTLY improved it?

Why wont any trol.err fan of the game respond to this? DARKFALL FANS I AM LOOKING AT YOU

 

Erm...Tasos lied and you belived him?

 

The AI can be a pain, and I don`t really like that part. If I could chose I would like to fight a bugged mob that was standing still and didn`t do any damage. Those were my favourit mobs when I played WOW, because it was easy to gain weaponskill from them.

 

You have to remember most of us don`t really like the PvE part that much, and the only reason we fight them is for skillgain and money.  We like to fight opponents with a brain. 

Lum recently commented on the whole "make AI smart" bit and he makes a good point about it. His statements, I think have solid ground.

Snippet (thanks Lum):

It would be ridiculously easy to make mobs smarter. “Hey, I need to always kill the guy healing people. No, really. Screw you, taunt skill. I’M KILLING THIS GUY. Oh, I’m getting some friends to help. In fact we’re going to loop around from behind to take them by surprise. AND WE’RE NOT STOPPING TILL WE WIN.” It would be the equivalent of That Dungeon Master Guy you all hate who takes great, sadistic, and Aspergian glee in making sure “his” players always die horribly.

This is not an experience people will pay for. Game design, in many ways, is convincing players that they won a struggle against imposing odds. It does not mean actually creating imposing odds.

Also, I have seen metrics prove conclusively, time and time and time and time again, that in a game that *does* have monsters with decent AI and that use strategies that require some thought to defeat, that players will avoid them in droves and seek out the ones with the most brain damaged AI possible.

Players dislike challenge. They SAY they like challenge. They lie.
 

Anyway. I do not believe, not one little bit, that these guys at aventurine were testing thier own game with an in-house AI. They may have done some research into scripted encounters between mobs with pre programmed opposing polarity but thats about it. Probably not much more than any other dev team. Making AI fight each other makes for a nice little teaser trailer (which they havent come up with one yet) and pre alpha combat stabilities, but yeah. whoopde-doo.

Tasos is a big fat liar. Plain and simple.

I sincerely hope DF turns out to be a good game. There is still some market for sandbox gameplay. But I swear to God this Tasos character looks like a gawddamm fraud. Has anyone seen the back of mister flamingoblahblah's neck yet? There might be a zipper there. Look close. A John Smedley can take on many different forms.

Don't think anything more can be said. No matter how much you say "We want smart AI and tough mobs" the community a a majority will ALWAYS NO MATTER WHAT find some exploit some loophole some wierd little obscure strategy to somehow go against game mechanics and exploit themselves into gaining quick exp. It's happened in every game i've ever played. FPS's MMO's Ation games with online scoreboards. There are videos and guides EVERYWHERE teaching people these exploits and peopel flock to them.

I mean in Left 4 dead a game where there no point in the game besides having fun people still cheat, The use the fact that explosions destroy some enviromental scenery to destroy the competition. What the "Zombie team" Does is. At the beggining of a specific map instead of fighting the "Human Team" they instead rush to the end and begin meleeing this Light bar thing. This thing movies VERY slowly when melleed almost not at all and usually only moves when blown up which is just a graphic feature which is supposed to look good or as a "Special" weapon for the tank. But they keep melleeing it over and over for 15-20 min or longer untill they can somehow manage to get it right in front of the only exit so that the "Humans" can't finish and have to exit the game unless they manage to think to save a grenade and HOPEFULLY it blows the thing away and not farther down the hole.

I've seen things like this in almost every game i've played online. My friend is one of these people who seeks these things out to do and he's also a person who is doing backflips for Darkfall. I'm not saying darkfall will be a bad game because of this but the fact that this is an Indie company AND the level of freedom allowed with the game that there WILL be exploits and most people will know or hear about them somehow. Certain areas will be avoided cause it's too hard or too easy certain areas will be flocked to for Quick skill ups.  unfortunatly it's the nature of the beast and no level of AI can compete.

Originally posted by Precursor

Originally posted by alakram

The fanboys will preorder it.

The haters will bash it till the end of times.

The game will speak for itself once / if it comes out.

Woooot I'm smart

Has it not spoken for itself already?

Its lengthy time in development. The obvious untruths communicated by its spokesperson over the years. The lack of, or the uncertainty of a reputable publisher. Little information on pay structure or billing. System reqs? Regional release dates? A complete website? Bueller...... Bueller..... Bueller......

Im not hating here. Really. Im doing my damndest not to.

Guess you won't be playing then what a shame...

 I found something funny. I asked one of my old wow buddies who just got into the beta what he thought of the game. He said everyone on there was claiming it was UO 2.0. I then questioned him as he has never played UO, and asked him some questions in regards to gameplay. He had no real answers except it's the best game and that it's ultima online reborn.

This game will flop... NDA still up with 2 weeks to go? So basically they are going to expect people to preorder the game while the NDA is still up? He also had no answer for this beside "I will preorder no matter what!". Quite sad how this game has turned to cult status and people cannot rationally argue why they do or don't like this game. As in see the facts. He also denied the facts that tasos said the game was more ready than any other game like 6 months ago even though the dev article is right on the forums.

Don't think anything more can be said. No matter how much you say "We want smart AI and tough mobs" the community a a majority will ALWAYS NO MATTER WHAT find some exploit some loophole some wierd little obscure strategy to somehow go against game mechanics and exploit themselves into gaining quick exp. It's happened in every game i've ever played. FPS's MMO's Ation games with online scoreboards. There are videos and guides EVERYWHERE teaching people these exploits and peopel flock to them.

I mean in Left 4 dead a game where there no point in the game besides having fun people still cheat, The use the fact that explosions destroy some enviromental scenery to destroy the competition. What the "Zombie team" Does is. At the beggining of a specific map instead of fighting the "Human Team" they instead rush to the end and begin meleeing this Light bar thing. This thing movies VERY slowly when melleed almost not at all and usually only moves when blown up which is just a graphic feature which is supposed to look good or as a "Special" weapon for the tank. But they keep melleeing it over and over for 15-20 min or longer untill they can somehow manage to get it right in front of the only exit so that the "Humans" can't finish and have to exit the game unless they manage to think to save a grenade and HOPEFULLY it blows the thing away and not farther down the hole.

I've seen things like this in almost every game i've played online. My friend is one of these people who seeks these things out to do and he's also a person who is doing backflips for Darkfall. I'm not saying darkfall will be a bad game because of this but the fact that this is an Indie company AND the level of freedom allowed with the game that there WILL be exploits and most people will know or hear about them somehow. Certain areas will be avoided cause it's too hard or too easy certain areas will be flocked to for Quick skill ups.  unfortunatly it's the nature of the beast and no level of AI can compete.

Exactly. My friend who's in the beta was already setting up macros to get his skills up while he does other things. Once the game comes out expect to see 80% of people /afk in towns macroing skills and bugging out gameplay to get "max level" or whatever you want to call it. Why not just start everyone off with full skills and let them pvp. Since most people will only play this game for 1 month anyways, might as well.

/waiting for fanbois to come.

Bah, I thought this was about todays developments.  At least use up to date information that better supports your post.   I'd still be surprised to see a 25th release however.

Originally posted by loxleynew

 I found something funny. I asked one of my old wow buddies who just got into the beta what he thought of the game. He said everyone on there was claiming it was UO 2.0. I then questioned him as he has never played UO, and asked him some questions in regards to gameplay. He had no real answers except it's the best game and that it's ultima online reborn.

 

This game will flop... NDA still up with 2 weeks to go? So basically they are going to expect people to preorder the game while the NDA is still up? He also had no answer for this beside "I will preorder no matter what!". Quite sad how this game has turned to cult status and people cannot rationally argue why they do or don't like this game. As in see the facts. He also denied the facts that tasos said the game was more ready than any other game like 6 months ago even though the dev article is right on the forums.

 

Well, you do realize that if your friend is in the DF beta, he's not allowed to share any of that info with you (and it appears he didn't) so I'm not seeing much of an issue with your story.

I agree though, NDA still up at this point is BS IMO, but hey, its their game, they can run it the way they want.

Originally posted by loxleynew

He said everyone on there was claiming it was UO 2.0. I then questioned him as he has never played UO, and asked him some questions in regards to gameplay. He had no real answers except it's the best game and that it's ultima online reborn.

 

This seems to be a common situation actually.

Quite a number of people claim to be ex-UO veterans, and that Darkfall is UO reborn with a shiny new wrapper, etc..

However, when you question 90% of these individuals about anything UO related, it becomes blatently obvious that they have never even played UO.

Blind fanboyism is all too commonplace these days. Sheeple people, ready to follow the rest of the masses.

This seems to be a common situation actually.

Quite a number of people claim to be ex-UO veterans, and that Darkfall is UO reborn with a shiny new wrapper, etc..

However, when you question 90% of these individuals about anything UO related, it becomes blatently obvious that they have never even played UO.

Blind fanboyism is all too commonplace these days. Sheeple people, ready to follow the rest of the masses.

Yea it's sad lol. I actually tried to get him to play UO with me again on one of those private servers like a year ago and he only lasted 2 days. The only similarities I see with DF and UO is full loot and maybe the macro system.

Just because a game has full loot doesn't mean it's ultima online 2!

Originally posted by Evasia

Game is perfect and for hardcore we will have a great launch and lots fun:)

Keep telling yourself that.  3 weeks after launch (whenever that might be) and you're standing alone with not another player in sight...check back with us.

Originally posted by UserNoName

Originally posted by CaesarsGhost

not so "feature complete" and/or "ready to release today"!

 

Wern't you one of the developers working on The Chronicle?

Bit of an ironic quote coming from you.

No, he was the Community Manager that was forced to say what Tim Petty & Eric Webster ( The "Producers" - using he term extremly loosely here- )  lied about lest they fired him.

...Much like the rest of us actually.

Originally posted by TheHoweller

Originally posted by Evasia

Game is perfect and for hardcore we will have a great launch and lots fun:)

 

Haha!

Do you even grasp what is going on, Evasia?  Really, do you understand anything you read?  I read this information two weeks ago on a betaleak site.  Unless ALL of the beta leaks I've seen were from three weeks ago, wildlife and all mobs have not been enabled.

Have you watched any of the videos?  Aren't you saying to yourself, "God...There's absolutely nothing in this game, sure the grass looks alright, but there's NOTHING AROUND"

Actually, I think you are saying the above, but it looks something more like this..."Tasos, if you're listening up there, can you please send me a sign that what you say is true?"  Then you probably read this shit, and say to yourself, "Thank you God Tasos, thank you for the gift that is Darkfall in its feature-completeness"

 

I wouldn't be so upset by the OP's posted information, if Aventurine weren't basking in the information that's included, which is so obviously not on the beta server.  Whatever though, looks as if Evasia, downtoearth, and egg will eat this up like it's gospel. Even though it's two-weeks old.

Have fun on the 25th, you three...Because it'll only be you guys still playing a week later.

Look you fool, Evasia probably knows a little more than the average bear, or should I say, carebear.

You on the other hand, don't know didly squat but have to rely on other misinformed people's propaganda.

Originally posted by gnlLucid

Originally posted by UserNoName

Originally posted by CaesarsGhost

not so "feature complete" and/or "ready to release today"!

 

Wern't you one of the developers working on The Chronicle?

Bit of an ironic quote coming from you.

 

No, he was the Community Manager that was forced to say what Tim Petty & Eric Webster ( The "Producers" - using he term extremly loosely here- )  lied about lest they fired him.

...Much like the rest of us actually.

So then pray tell, what makes him any different then Tasos?
 

Don't you think he's in similar boat? Just curious.

People forced to say what others want them to, dunno about you but no amount of money could convince me to do something like that -shrugs-

Originally posted by UserNoName

Originally posted by gnlLucid

Originally posted by UserNoName

Originally posted by CaesarsGhost

not so "feature complete" and/or "ready to release today"!

 

Wern't you one of the developers working on The Chronicle?

Bit of an ironic quote coming from you.

 

No, he was the Community Manager that was forced to say what Tim Petty & Eric Webster ( The "Producers" - using he term extremly loosely here- )  lied about lest they fired him.

...Much like the rest of us actually.

So then pray tell, what makes him any different then Tasos?
 

Don't you think he's in similar boat? Just curious.

People forced to say what others want them to, dunno about you but no amount of money could convince me to do something like that -shrugs-

Tasos is a self proclaimed developer as well as partner ( business speaking, co-founder ) of said game.
CG was a hired employee that was expendable at any time, that was eventually fire for telling the truth.

To answer your last question, what is it you do for a living?

Originally posted by gnlLucid

Tasos is a self proclaimed developer as well as partner ( business speaking, co-founder ) of said game.
CG was a hired employee that was expendable at any time, that was eventually fire for telling the truth.

To answer your last question, what is it you do for a living?

 Like I said, I was just curious what the difference was, thanks for the enlightenment. Still an ironic quote coming from CG since he DID lie, even if he turned about his evil ways eventually.

As for my career... I'm a Stone Mason, the only people I ever have to talk to on a daily basis is a couple labourers or other stone masons. I stand by my statement, you could pay me millions and I still wouldn't take a job where I had to lie. Just the kind of person I am.