Originally posted by Pheace

Originally posted by Ionselon

Originally posted by Pheace

Originally posted by Ionselon

Originally posted by maxnrosy

Originally posted by neller2000

Originally posted by Ionselon

neller is a known WAR hater, so I wouldn't put much stock in anything he says about it.

As for the realistic look, that's not the game that I'm playing.  It has a definite fantasy feel to it.  The weapons bear little resembalance to weapons used in any real war.  And when was the last time you saw an infantryman (SM) running around in a dress?  Nope, definitely fantasy.

Ion

 

I think you missed my point entirely. This isn't about whether or not I hate WAR in particular, it's about the trend in general with new MMORPG's taking the "realistic graphics" approach. War is on the mild side, granted, but still too much in my opinion.

When I say realistic, I mean in the general looks of a character in WAR or LoTR for instance compared to a character of say WoW or TOR. The first two I get somewhat the feeling I'm playing a second rate cartoons company's newest addition and in the last two I'm playing Disney's new blockbuster.

If you HAVE to go with the realistic look, then jeesh make it actually look more normal in regards to animations and general feel than the cartoony ones out there.

bah neller your wasting your breath. we all know ion is the rabid fanboi. shhh here he comes after licking jacobs behind.

LOL
 

Max, I don't understand why you and neller even bother coming to threads about WAR.  You both don't like the game, so why keep posting in threads about WAR?

While not a fanboi, I do enjoy playing WAR.  As I have said in other posts, the Fun Factor > Frustration Factor.

Ion

 

Maybe you should use some real arguments then, not dumb ones like "ow my character is in a dress -> Fantasy"

 

I didn't say that SM's wearing a dress made the graphics look like a fantasy setting.  What I was saying is that a warrior wearing a dress isn't realistic, and therefore the graphics in WAR can't be considered to be realistic.

 

Which makes it completely besides the point then since what does dress style have to do with graphic realism in the sense that's talked about here?

/sigh

Never mind

I think the game graphics are very very good.

IMO Graphics is not whats wrong with WAR

I was expecting a clunky low poly option. I am disappointed in this poll.

I think the graphics are deliberately stylized.

It's not at all meant to be realistic, it's a slightly watered down take on the art style of games workshop.

The colour palette's a little brighter than the GW artists tend to use and the graphics are slightly cartoonier.

But realistic - not at all.

Originally posted by neller2000

There's a Shit option missing too. Sorry, but I generally hate this new "realistic" look many MMORPG's seem to be doing. AoC, LoTR, VG, WAR

You are wrong

Warhammer has stylized art style.

Lotro has some pseudo realistic enviroments but stylized characters.

Age of Conan has realistic art style.

From the landscapes to all characters Warhammer is stlized, from colors to proportions...

This is not a matter of opinion, there is no realism in Warhammer from an artistic point of view...just remember Im not talking about realism as the artistic movement, but as concept and style.

Originally posted by Umbral

Originally posted by neller2000

There's a Shit option missing too. Sorry, but I generally hate this new "realistic" look many MMORPG's seem to be doing. AoC, LoTR, VG, WAR

 

You are wrong

Warhammer has stylized art style.

Lotro has some pseudo realistic enviroments but stylized characters.

Age of Conan has realistic art style.

From the landscapes to all characters Warhammer is stlized, from colors to proportions...

This is not a matter of opinion, there is no realism in Warhammer from an artistic point of view...just remember Im not talking about realism as the artistic movement, but as concept and style.

SO I wonder what a real Ork or Goblin looks like?

Ridiculous poll, didnt even voted. Its based of the tabletop game, check it out. Besides, you shouldnt even post WoW has an option since blizzard is the first to admit they took some style ideas from the warhammer tabletop game back in the days they started the whole warcraft IP like 15 years ago.

Originally posted by Pheace

 

What ridiculous comments. in EQ2 the characters use magic too, realistic? I guess not, definitely fantasy.

Everquest 2 is not realistic in artstyle aswell.(not because of "magic" or fantasy)

Human proportions, bodies, even doors size are all stylized, Everquest 2 has volumetric textures and characters but the style is not realistic, just stylized as Warhammer, but in a different perspective.

I will not compare Von Stuck with the Pre Raphaelite or Caravaggio with Schiele here, but talking about games, compare Warhammer and Everquest 2 (even Lotro) characters with Fallout3 characters, AoC characters or even Mafia characters, you will realize, Warhammer and Eq2 are stylized, not realistic, it doesnt matter wich one is more "darker" or more colored.

Originally posted by dougmysticey

Originally posted by Umbral

Originally posted by neller2000

There's a Shit option missing too. Sorry, but I generally hate this new "realistic" look many MMORPG's seem to be doing. AoC, LoTR, VG, WAR

 

You are wrong

Warhammer has stylized art style.

Lotro has some pseudo realistic enviroments but stylized characters.

Age of Conan has realistic art style.

From the landscapes to all characters Warhammer is stlized, from colors to proportions...

This is not a matter of opinion, there is no realism in Warhammer from an artistic point of view...just remember Im not talking about realism as the artistic movement, but as concept and style.

 

SO I wonder what a real Ork or Goblin looks like?

Your comment make no sense at all.

You can portrait a fantasy landscape or a fantasy creature with realism.

As I said, not realist as the art movement, but as a style, you can find romantic paintings with fantasy creatures but in a realistic style.

Orcs and Goblins in Lotr movies - realistic

Goblins in Oblivion - realistic (but a bit stylized).

Goblins in Warhammer  (online and tabletop)- stylized, caricature like... in some Warhammer books there are realistic illustrations but the game followed the table top concept of caricatures and non realistic but darker style.

It is not that hard to realize, just imagine a creature that fits your reality even if it is a fantasy creature, again, dont confuse Fantasy with Realistic style, realistic artsyle is NOT equal to realism as an overall concept and setting.

You can for sure express a fantasy setting with realism in style, proportions, light etc

...

Examples.

Pan (or any other satyr) is not a real creature, right? But you can portrait him with realism or in a stylized way.

Originally posted by argos5

 

...the art in the codex/armybooks are fairly realistic despite the exaggerated proportions.

Exaggerated proportions is an aspect of caricature and stylized art, if a iilustration, portrait or representation has exaggerated proportions it is NOT realistic.

It doesnt matter if it is dark and detailed, proportion is the first aspec that separate what is realistic from what is stylized in artstyle.

The problem with the new MMORPG's is the graphics of the games are trying for a more realistic approach as opposed to a cartoony approach. The cartoony approach is more pleasing to the eye in the long run.

Take a character in WoW for instance. When you run with most of them, it feels like that's actually the way they're supposed to be moving. Trolls look good, orcs look good in a funny way. Gnomes perfect as well. Humans however are absolutely horrible. A human male running in WoW looks like a stiff stickman who just crapped his pants.

When you move to LoTR you get some pretty graphics in the background, nothing amazing but also not too hard on the hardware. A female elf for instance looks somewhat real, until you move her. Her steps are way big for the landscape, it feels like she's gliding across and in general it doesn't look like the way you'd expect an elf to move. I kinda expected gracious but got annoying.

WAR is a middle thing between LoTR and WoW, however still more the realistic approach. The more realistic developers try and make the games, the worse the experience gets. In the case of MMORPG's anyway. The goblins look kinda nice when they run but in general the animations of the NPC's and characters is horrible. It's one of the first things that start to annoy me about a game. If the rest is good, I'll deal with it though.

You need "None Of The Above". The game looks like the tabletop miniature game.

Neller2000.

Both WoW and Warhammer are equaly unrealistic but with different perspectives.

Lotro has realistic landscapes but stylized characters, what in an artistic point of view is somehow a mistake, this is why in the eyes of a lot of players, characters in Lotro just dont match the landscapes.

You are mixing animation and artsyle, a human in WoW is not more realistic (or less cartoony) because it is human, animations in WoW , War and Lotro are equaly simple, sometimes better in one, sometimes better in the other, but animation in these games are programed by ring, none of them has realistic animations, Age of Conan and Everquest 2 both have motion capture (realistic animations).

WoW is more collored than Warhammer, but both are stylized ( the term cartoony is misinterpreted as a lot of people try to use this term here not to show caricature like graphics but colored/childish graphics).

Sorry Neller, in all artistic concepts and arguments, Warhammer is not realistic and doesnt even try to be realistic, it is more darker and has a different caricature approche than WoW, you may not like it, but your impressions and definitions are a bit messed up.

Your critcism isnt accurate this time, as Warhammer developers didnt try to be "more" realistic in the style of the game, it still based on illustration, caricature and stylized visuals, from colors to characters, from landscapes to the sky... you dont like it? It is ok, you think it wont appeal to non warhammer fans or non rpg/fantasy like the more bright, colored and pop style of WoW? It is ok, I agree with that, most people just doesnt like darker expressions in fantasy.

You are trying to define what you like and what you dont like in games using terms that goes beyond your opinions.

In the end, you just cant take your taste and use as universal truth, developers should try to look ORIGINAL, from realism to stylized looks, it would be horrible if all MMOs had WoW/RoM visuals, we need uniqueness... and just to remember, different artstyles are definitions that goes beyond simple opinions.

edit: as a lot of people already said here, Warhammer online looks like the table top game, your argument about "devs are trying to be more realistc" is not only wrong in an artstyle term, but also proved wrong when you realize the inspiration was a table top game and not real/lifelike characters and landscapes.

Originally posted by robby5403

What do you people think the graphics are absed on? I personally don't see much from Wow, it isn't that comic. Its more like Guild Wars or a bit Lotro.

You forgot the most obvious choice. Warhammer tabletop miniatures (these excist a couple of decades already). My Black Orc looked like the orc miniatures from the tabletop game.

Originally posted by neller2000

The problem with the new MMORPG's is the graphics of the games are trying for a more realistic approach as opposed to a cartoony approach. The cartoony approach is more pleasing to the eye in the long run.

Take a character in WoW for instance. When you run with most of them, it feels like that's actually the way they're supposed to be moving. Trolls look good, orcs look good in a funny way. Gnomes perfect as well. Humans however are absolutely horrible. A human male running in WoW looks like a stiff stickman who just crapped his pants.

When you move to LoTR you get some pretty graphics in the background, nothing amazing but also not too hard on the hardware. A female elf for instance looks somewhat real, until you move her. Her steps are way big for the landscape, it feels like she's gliding across and in general it doesn't look like the way you'd expect an elf to move. I kinda expected gracious but got annoying.

WAR is a middle thing between LoTR and WoW, however still more the realistic approach. The more realistic developers try and make the games, the worse the experience gets. In the case of MMORPG's anyway. The goblins look kinda nice when they run but in general the animations of the NPC's and characters is horrible. It's one of the first things that start to annoy me about a game. If the rest is good, I'll deal with it though.

Instead of trying to analyse WAR's artstyle using your own assumptions about the gameartist's intentions, try to read other comments. And learn that WAR's art is based on the tabletop miniature games. If anything, critizise the Games Workshop artists that originally designed the miniatures some decades ago.

The sentence that I underlined just shows your preference btw. I chose SWG's more realistic looking characters any time above WoW's characters. It is just a personal preference, because I do recognise the nice look of WoW in general, it is just not my cup of tea.

WAR's cartoony characters are the only exception that i make, because their look has a nostalgic feeling for me. Usually stupidly oversized (even more then usual) blades and hammers annoy me. Thats why I cant relate to WoW's artstyle. Another reason is that WoW's evil factions look too friendly like in a Walt Disney movie.

Same with LOTRO, too flowerpowerly for me. I prefer the presentation of good and evil races from the movies.

Originally posted by someforumguy

Originally posted by neller2000

The problem with the new MMORPG's is the graphics of the games are trying for a more realistic approach as opposed to a cartoony approach. The cartoony approach is more pleasing to the eye in the long run.

Take a character in WoW for instance. When you run with most of them, it feels like that's actually the way they're supposed to be moving. Trolls look good, orcs look good in a funny way. Gnomes perfect as well. Humans however are absolutely horrible. A human male running in WoW looks like a stiff stickman who just crapped his pants.

When you move to LoTR you get some pretty graphics in the background, nothing amazing but also not too hard on the hardware. A female elf for instance looks somewhat real, until you move her. Her steps are way big for the landscape, it feels like she's gliding across and in general it doesn't look like the way you'd expect an elf to move. I kinda expected gracious but got annoying.

WAR is a middle thing between LoTR and WoW, however still more the realistic approach. The more realistic developers try and make the games, the worse the experience gets. In the case of MMORPG's anyway. The goblins look kinda nice when they run but in general the animations of the NPC's and characters is horrible. It's one of the first things that start to annoy me about a game. If the rest is good, I'll deal with it though.

Instead of trying to analyse WAR's artstyle using your own assumptions about the gameartist's intentions, try to read other comments. And learn that WAR's art is based on the tabletop miniature games. If anything, critizise the Games Workshop artists that originally designed the miniatures some decades ago.

The sentence that I underlined just shows your preference btw. I chose SWG's more realistic looking characters any time above WoW's characters. It is just a personal preference, because I do recognise the nice look of WoW in general, it is just not my cup of tea.

WAR's cartoony characters are the only exception that i make, because their look has a nostalgic feeling for me. Usually stupidly oversized (even more then usual) blades and hammers annoy me. Thats why I cant relate to WoW's artstyle. Another reason is that WoW's evil factions look too friendly like in a Walt Disney movie.

Same with LOTRO, too flowerpowerly for me. I prefer the presentation of good and evil races from the movies.

Again, the style has nothing to do with what I'm saying. Mythic could just as well had used the cartoony graphics of WoW and preserve every inch of the lore and style. I'm talking about when they DO take the realistic route, most including WAR fail horribly.

I'm talking about movement in proportion to the landscape. And many other things as well. All it really requires is for someone to take a step or two with whichever character in whichever MMORPG to notice it.

WoW got the sizes and animations right, except for the humans. WAR got the goblins right. The elves, not so much. It doesn't feel right when you look at it. Take Lord of the Rings, the movies. Transfer that to a general idea of how certain races should move and act. It doesn't matter what the lore is, where does it state an elf in WAR has to move like he has a stick up his butt?

Originally posted by neller2000

Originally posted by someforumguy

Originally posted by neller2000

The problem with the new MMORPG's is the graphics of the games are trying for a more realistic approach as opposed to a cartoony approach. The cartoony approach is more pleasing to the eye in the long run.

Take a character in WoW for instance. When you run with most of them, it feels like that's actually the way they're supposed to be moving. Trolls look good, orcs look good in a funny way. Gnomes perfect as well. Humans however are absolutely horrible. A human male running in WoW looks like a stiff stickman who just crapped his pants.

When you move to LoTR you get some pretty graphics in the background, nothing amazing but also not too hard on the hardware. A female elf for instance looks somewhat real, until you move her. Her steps are way big for the landscape, it feels like she's gliding across and in general it doesn't look like the way you'd expect an elf to move. I kinda expected gracious but got annoying.

WAR is a middle thing between LoTR and WoW, however still more the realistic approach. The more realistic developers try and make the games, the worse the experience gets. In the case of MMORPG's anyway. The goblins look kinda nice when they run but in general the animations of the NPC's and characters is horrible. It's one of the first things that start to annoy me about a game. If the rest is good, I'll deal with it though.

Instead of trying to analyse WAR's artstyle using your own assumptions about the gameartist's intentions, try to read other comments. And learn that WAR's art is based on the tabletop miniature games. If anything, critizise the Games Workshop artists that originally designed the miniatures some decades ago.

The sentence that I underlined just shows your preference btw. I chose SWG's more realistic looking characters any time above WoW's characters. It is just a personal preference, because I do recognise the nice look of WoW in general, it is just not my cup of tea.

WAR's cartoony characters are the only exception that i make, because their look has a nostalgic feeling for me. Usually stupidly oversized (even more then usual) blades and hammers annoy me. Thats why I cant relate to WoW's artstyle. Another reason is that WoW's evil factions look too friendly like in a Walt Disney movie.

Same with LOTRO, too flowerpowerly for me. I prefer the presentation of good and evil races from the movies.

 

Again, the style has nothing to do with what I'm saying. Mythic could just as well had used the cartoony graphics of WoW and preserve every inch of the lore and style. I'm talking about when they DO take the realistic route, most including WAR fail horribly.

I'm talking about movement in proportion to the landscape. And many other things as well. All it really requires is for someone to take a step or two with whichever character in whichever MMORPG to notice it.

WoW got the sizes and animations right, except for the humans. WAR got the goblins right. The elves, not so much. It doesn't feel right when you look at it. Take Lord of the Rings, the movies. Transfer that to a general idea of how certain races should move and act. It doesn't matter what the lore is, where does it state an elf in WAR has to move like he has a stick up his butt?

There is truth to this, but the only weird movements I've seena re from Elves and Dwarves...but Dwarves usually DO walk sort of strange considering they are built differently compared to a human or elf.

Orcs and Goblins came out pretty good as well.

Originally posted by neller2000

 

Again, the style has nothing to do with what I'm saying. ... I'm talking about when they DO take the realistic route, most including WAR fail horribly.

No there is NO realistic route, this is what you just cant understand, or you just dont know the difference from stylized to realistic "route" and yes, style has everything to do with it.

I'm talking about movement in proportion to the landscape. And many other things as well. All it really requires is for someone to take a step or two with whichever character in whichever MMORPG to notice it.

The proportion (not only proportion, but light, color and concept) of landscapes in Warhammer is NOT realistic, character movement would be "human" like if they had use motion capture, even Warhammer animations are stylized.

WoW got the sizes and animations right, except for the humans. WAR got the goblins right. The elves, not so much. It doesn't feel right when you look at it. Take Lord of the Rings, the movies. Transfer that to a general idea of how certain races should move and act. It doesn't matter what the lore is, where does it state an elf in WAR has to move like he has a stick up his butt?

WoW got the sized of animations right for your taste, the only MMOs with human like animations (that you can compare to movies) are AoC and EQ2 when we talk about WoW, War, Lotro and Vanguard all have stylized ring animations.(even with motion capture, AoC and EQ2 still have more or less stylized animation)

Ok, you like WoW animations but you dont like War animations, it is ok, but the terms you are using, your arguments about style, realism, movie like animation are WRONG, it is ok to express your opinion about what you like and what you dislike, but if you want to use terms related to artstyle/animation/technical aspects, you need to acquire more information.

Forgetting about what you like, what I like or what anybody here like or dislike, movements, characters, landscapes in Warhammer are NOT realistic in any sense.

Just a side note, you already expressed here how you enjoy Disney "blockbusters", right? But at the same time you are saying you dont like what you call "realism"... well, you do know that animators used Rotoscoping, right? You do know this detail make your argument against "realistic rute" in animation totally ironic, right?

 

I couldn't vote in the poll as the options were too limited.

Personally I really like the graphics, although though the elf character models could do with a bit of improvement. Whilst a few of the zones do look a bit bland, many are almost breathtaking.

I think on the whole the design captures the essence of the Warhammer Universe very well.

What is the point of this poll, i am lost?