First of all, I'm going to say that I've been skeptical about Darkfall for a long time.  I still am.  I think the game looks merely passable.  Character models and textures are OK.  I'd say about 7/10 in that regard.  World design is a bit uninspired from the videos I've seen, but it also looks OK.  I'd give it a 6 or 7.  Then again, every MMORPG has 60-90% bland areas punctuated by 10-40% awesome areas.  So if Darkfall has some really great areas tucked away somewhere, I'd raise it to maybe 8 or 9.

The main thing that I find off-putting is the combat animations.  Even in their own videos, they look rather bland.  I guess it will ultimately come down to how it looks with advanced characters in action, though, since the use of more advanced skills will be what adds some variety to how combat looks, supposedly.

What I haven't seen still worries me.  The proof is in the pudding with a game like this.  I'm talking about network and server performance.  _If_ that holds up, and I think that's a very big if for a game that has never been stress-tested with a lot of players, and you have decent performance in large battles with many players on the server at once, then I will say that yes, there is actually a workable game in Darkfall.

There are a lot of other promised features that I haven't seen, and I'm sure some of them will not make it to launch, but if the game merely runs passably, there will be an actual game there.  However, even in the best case scenario, the game will probably need a lot of work.

So what's the ray of hope, even if it's not everything it's cracked up to be?

Well, I'm going to tell you about another game, a game which is still around today.  This game is now very polished.  It's so polished that most new players believe it was always like that.  In fact, if you compared it to Darkfall today, most players of that game would laugh in your face.  The only major issue are the crashes which often occur in largescale PvP.

But this game launched with a whole lot of other problems.  A lot of social features were missing.  It was very buggy, and there were serious exploits which allowed greatly hastened advancement.  In fact, a lot of the early players advanced far ahead of what is even possible for a new player because of these exploits, as the developer never reversed what was gained in the early days.

Because of all these problems, the game had a very small playerbase for a while.  Just a few thousand players.  But the developers stuck it out along with the few fans.  They were committed.  That game is now prospering today.

So it's possible that Darkfall will survive and prosper if it's problematic or even outright crappy at launch.  However, on a cautionary note, there are far more games that were problematic at launch but never really got any better, and ultimately failed.

Umm what game is that ?

Originally posted by lpetnies99

Umm what game is that ?

Aye, the suspense is killing me :P

You cant just start by saying "Ill tell you about another game and then not name it!

But overall I do agree somewhat. A game can get better with age if the devs keep up the work.

Originally posted by lpetnies99

Umm what game is that ?

I don't really feel like saying it.  There are a number of players who joined the game two or three years into its life.  In fact, that's about 90% of the players of that game.  They (wrongly) believe they're authorities on what the game is, was, and will be for all time.  They don't realize that the launch wasn't as silky smooth as they think it was.

Originally posted by Kurush

Originally posted by lpetnies99

Umm what game is that ?

 

I don't really feel like saying it.  There are a number of players who joined the game two or three years into its life.  In fact, that's about 90% of the players of that game.  They (wrongly) believe they're authorities on what the game is, was, and will be for all time.  They don't realize that the launch wasn't as silky smooth as they think it was.

Oh thats just evil!

You just want to torture us now, dont you

I'd venture to guess Vanguard.

Originally posted by Revel

I'd venture to guess Vanguard.

I think hes probably talking about WoW with the launch having the loot bug and server stress.

I'd say he's talking about EvE.

Originally posted by Mykell

I'd say he's talking about EvE.

True, you might be right there.

So it's basically 8 years of developement + what... 3 years of debugging? Ok... Thank you but..  could we have a normal game please?

Originally posted by altairzq

So it's basically 8 years of developement + what... 3 years of debugging? Ok... Thank you but..  could we have a normal game please?

With the exception of WoW and LotrO thats pretty much the normal of the industry....

Originally posted by Revel

I'd venture to guess Vanguard.

It's Eve.

Anyways, the server stability issue is one that can totaly break the game, if the servers go down a lot and lagg in a PvP game that is the end. And no stress test is worrying, they must get that right to survive.

Most of the things can be fixed later but a game that constantly crashes and laggs you to death + full loot PvP can not succed, let's hope they got this right.

Originally posted by Hauken

Originally posted by altairzq

So it's basically 8 years of developement + what... 3 years of debugging? Ok... Thank you but..  could we have a normal game please?

 

With the exception of WoW and LotrO thats pretty much the normal of the industry....

You saying that with a straight face?

Originally posted by altairzq

So it's basically 8 years of developement + what... 3 years of debugging? Ok... Thank you but..  could we have a normal game please?

I'm sorry, I was not aware there was a specific time limit in which a developer has to release their own game. Where does it say that if a game is not released within X years it is suddenly not normal and not to be supported?

Facts: Valves Team Fortress 2 was in development since 1998. Prey was in development for over 10 years...since 1995, released in 2006. Too Human was in development since 1999, thanks to contract difficulties with companies like Nintendo it was delayed even more...they are now converting the title to use the unreal 3 engine, more time required.  Stalker shadows of chernobyl took 7 years to make, and even that was released in a buggy state... could have used more time. That was a great game btw. Even WoW was said to have been in development prior to 2001, which was when they announced the project.

If many of those mmorpg's who relied on expansions to add features waited until they can sell it all at once rather than in expansion form, you would see 8-10 year development cycles as well.

Its all about having the correct perspective. Its their game, they can take as long as they want with it. Its a lot like cooking an expensive meal, the preperation might take you longer than expected... if it does do you stop half way and left it go to waste? do you eat a half finished or partially cooked meal because its going to take a few more hours to finish? or do you just keep at it until its ready to eat to perfection. If you spend money on something, you dont just stop half way and toss it out because its taking longer than you would like... then you just lose out on your investment. Thats stupid.

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

Originally posted by altairzq

So it's basically 8 years of developement + what... 3 years of debugging? Ok... Thank you but..  could we have a normal game please?

 

I'm sorry, I was not aware there was a specific time limit in which a developer has to release their own game. Where does it say that if a game is not released within X years it is suddenly not normal and not to be supported?

Facts: Valves Team Fortress 2 was in development since 1998. Prey was in development for over 10 years...since 1995, released in 2006. Too Human was in development since 1999, thanks to contract difficulties with companies like Nintendo it was delayed even more...they are now converting the title to use the unreal 3 engine, more time required.  Stalker shadows of chernobyl took 7 years to make, and even that was released in a buggy state... could have used more time. That was a great game btw. Even WoW was said to have been in development prior to 2001, which was when they announced the project.

If many of those mmorpg's who relied on expansions to add features waited until they can sell it all at once rather than in expansion form, you would see 8-10 year development cycles as well.

Its all about having the correct perspective. Its their game, they can take as long as they want with it. Its a lot like cooking an expensive meal, the preperation might take you longer than expected... if it does do you stop half way and left it go to waste? do you eat a half finished or partially cooked meal because its going to take a few more hours to finish? or do you just keep at it until its ready to eat to perfection. If you spend money on something, you dont just stop half way and toss it out because its taking longer than you would like... then you just lose out on your investment. Thats stupid.

I asked politely. I said please. If all the devolopement periods have to be like Darkfall and Team Fortress 2 and Duke Nukem 3D... well ok.

What is stupid is waiting hours for a crappy hamburger.

He's talking about Meridian59

From my personal experiences it does seem the more delays and the more times a release date is changed the worse it is at release. At least that was the case with Dark and Light, Vanguard and Ages of Conan to name 3 that I can think of.

Not really following this game myself but I am curious to see how it will turn out if it is ever released.

You know what?

I know about a game that launched in sometime in the past, or it can be in development still. But this game has a big player base,or a small one,but its the best game ever... or dont. But it has the best class balance in the mmo industry, or maybe its skill based. Its and open world,ormaybe a zone based one, its a mix of fantasy and sci-fi or a post apocaliptic one.

Anyway, I'll never tell you about the game.

Come on,what game is it?

Originally posted by altairzq

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

Originally posted by altairzq

So it's basically 8 years of developement + what... 3 years of debugging? Ok... Thank you but..  could we have a normal game please?

 

I'm sorry, I was not aware there was a specific time limit in which a developer has to release their own game. Where does it say that if a game is not released within X years it is suddenly not normal and not to be supported?

Facts: Valves Team Fortress 2 was in development since 1998. Prey was in development for over 10 years...since 1995, released in 2006. Too Human was in development since 1999, thanks to contract difficulties with companies like Nintendo it was delayed even more...they are now converting the title to use the unreal 3 engine, more time required.  Stalker shadows of chernobyl took 7 years to make, and even that was released in a buggy state... could have used more time. That was a great game btw. Even WoW was said to have been in development prior to 2001, which was when they announced the project.

If many of those mmorpg's who relied on expansions to add features waited until they can sell it all at once rather than in expansion form, you would see 8-10 year development cycles as well.

Its all about having the correct perspective. Its their game, they can take as long as they want with it. Its a lot like cooking an expensive meal, the preperation might take you longer than expected... if it does do you stop half way and left it go to waste? do you eat a half finished or partially cooked meal because its going to take a few more hours to finish? or do you just keep at it until its ready to eat to perfection. If you spend money on something, you dont just stop half way and toss it out because its taking longer than you would like... then you just lose out on your investment. Thats stupid.

I asked politely. I said please. If all the devolopement periods have to be like Darkfall and Team Fortress 2 and Duke Nukem 3D... well ok.

What is stupid is waiting hours for a crappy hamburger.

The difference being, you havent payed for it yet, nor do you have to. You are not sitting down wasting time for it, you have a life outside of video games. Do something else if you have to. Essentially, Aventurine owes you nothing, you have payed them nothing, nor have they asked you to pay anything. Its their project, you have no ownership of it what so ever. If it takes them 1 year or 5, its theirs to do with as they wish. In that time I, and yes you too, have other things to be doing. You assume its going to be crappy, and you feel entitled to it. I cant understand that logic.

The game should be released when its ready, simple as that, and you should support that habbit, which the game industry tends to lack. Game development time is rising as years go on, its not a matter of a time limit, rather if the funds are available to continue working on the project till its ready to go gold.

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

Originally posted by altairzq

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

Originally posted by altairzq

So it's basically 8 years of developement + what... 3 years of debugging? Ok... Thank you but..  could we have a normal game please?

 

I'm sorry, I was not aware there was a specific time limit in which a developer has to release their own game. Where does it say that if a game is not released within X years it is suddenly not normal and not to be supported?

Facts: Valves Team Fortress 2 was in development since 1998. Prey was in development for over 10 years...since 1995, released in 2006. Too Human was in development since 1999, thanks to contract difficulties with companies like Nintendo it was delayed even more...they are now converting the title to use the unreal 3 engine, more time required.  Stalker shadows of chernobyl took 7 years to make, and even that was released in a buggy state... could have used more time. That was a great game btw. Even WoW was said to have been in development prior to 2001, which was when they announced the project.

If many of those mmorpg's who relied on expansions to add features waited until they can sell it all at once rather than in expansion form, you would see 8-10 year development cycles as well.

Its all about having the correct perspective. Its their game, they can take as long as they want with it. Its a lot like cooking an expensive meal, the preperation might take you longer than expected... if it does do you stop half way and left it go to waste? do you eat a half finished or partially cooked meal because its going to take a few more hours to finish? or do you just keep at it until its ready to eat to perfection. If you spend money on something, you dont just stop half way and toss it out because its taking longer than you would like... then you just lose out on your investment. Thats stupid.

I asked politely. I said please. If all the devolopement periods have to be like Darkfall and Team Fortress 2 and Duke Nukem 3D... well ok.

What is stupid is waiting hours for a crappy hamburger.

 

The difference being, you havent payed for it yet, nor do you have to. You are not sitting down wasting time for it, you have a life outside of video games. Do something else if you have to. Essentially, Aventurine owes you nothing, you have payed them nothing, nor have they asked you to pay anything. Its their project, you have no ownership of it what so ever. If it takes them 1 year or 5, its theirs to do with as they wish. In that time I, and yes you too, have other things to be doing. You assume its going to be crappy, and you feel entitled to it. I cant understand that logic.

The game should be released when its ready, simple as that, and you should support that habbit, which the game industry tends to lack. Game development time is rising as years go on, its not a matter of a time limit, rather if the funds are available to continue working on the project till its ready to go gold.

Yes it is their right, I agree.

Should I support the habbit of releasing when the game is ready.. yes I guess, but really.. if you need 8 years to make something that looks like we are seeing in the leaked videos... no I don't think I should support that.