its quite funny to see people saying its a wow clone, or its gonna be just like wow. Or how its SWG-pre-cu.

WoW was about 1 thing. gear grinding. gear grinding and grinding more gear. PvP and raiding were mask for gear grinding. quest were mask for gear grinding. everything you did in that game was about gear grinding.

TOR already said there not gonna have raids like WoW. TOR has already stated that its entirely solo supportive, something WoW is not.

TOR, your character is the main hero in the story. in WoW, you aided the main hero in the story.

KOTOR 1 and 2, levels, skills and class's operated entirely different then in WoW's.

WoW, everything worth doing at cap level is instanced base. PvP, PvE. all instances. What did the Bioware Devs say? they wanna keep isntances's LIMITED?

there is just so much similiarty between the 2 games!!
 

Not

RPG = GRINDFEST

DUH

You people all act like its some GREAT revelation that WoW makes you "grind" for all your stuff.

So you want to just start out at max level and have all the best gear and walk around for 5 minutes before you quit?

Seriously most of you should go back and play some single player RPG's and then realize that an MMO is EXACTLY THE SAME JUST WITH MORE PEOPLE.

RPG's are BY THEIR VERY NATURE Grind games.

Now I agree about the instance thing, I don't always like the idea of having multiple versions of a dungeon but honestly it works out better when you think about it.

If you HATE instances go play FFXI for a while and camp the Vulkrum Emperor and you'll realize that grinding through a dungeon to get gear is WAY Better than camping against 20 other people for one monster that has a 6 hour respawn timer.

Oh and about how in WoW you "aide" the main characters and in TOR you''ll BE the main character.  There is no way that they will make what you do have world changing effects any more than the way WoW does, it simply DOES NOT WORK for online games.

You seem to be jumping the gun...nobody really knows how the finished product is going to turn out. But I think that if the end game is lacking the game will flop.  =p   I'm not a WoW groupie...but it does have tons of things to do once you hit level cap.

If I was going to make a new MMORPG I would put in solid endgame raiding first as well as other things to keep people interested in the game once they hit level cap. Most these new MMO's I get bored after I hit max level because there is little to do or it's broken/buggy. Like AOC and WAR.

Originally posted by Noktaris

You seem to be jumping the gun...nobody really knows how the finished product is going to turn out. But I think that if the end game is lacking the game will flop.  =p   I'm not a WoW groupie...but it does have tons of things to do once you hit level cap.

 

If I was going to make a new MMORPG I would put in solid endgame raiding first as well as other things to keep people interested in the game once they hit level cap. Most these new MMO's I get bored after I hit max level because there is little to do or it's broken/buggy. Like AOC and WAR.

i am the exact opposite, i prefer the journey and the story over endgame.

Originally posted by Jerid13

RPG = GRINDFEST

DUH

You people all act like its some GREAT revelation that WoW makes you "grind" for all your stuff.

So you want to just start out at max level and have all the best gear and walk around for 5 minutes before you quit?

Seriously most of you should go back and play some single player RPG's and then realize that an MMO is EXACTLY THE SAME JUST WITH MORE PEOPLE.

RPG's are BY THEIR VERY NATURE Grind games.

 

Now I agree about the instance thing, I don't always like the idea of having multiple versions of a dungeon but honestly it works out better when you think about it.

If you HATE instances go play FFXI for a while and camp the Vulkrum Emperor and you'll realize that grinding through a dungeon to get gear is WAY Better than camping against 20 other people for one monster that has a 6 hour respawn timer.

 

Oh and about how in WoW you "aide" the main characters and in TOR you''ll BE the main character.  There is no way that they will make what you do have world changing effects any more than the way WoW does, it simply DOES NOT WORK for online games.

I own the Valkurm Emperor and Leaping Lizzy! I loved them when they werent Rare EX items. Other than that, they were my main cash cow!!! Ahhh, the good ol days! It was also another way for me to... RMT t(^.^t) and all done with a PS2 no hacks!!!!!  Man, I miss that game sometimes... I STRESS SOMETIMES!

Originally posted by Proximo521

Originally posted by Jerid13

RPG = GRINDFEST

DUH

You people all act like its some GREAT revelation that WoW makes you "grind" for all your stuff.

So you want to just start out at max level and have all the best gear and walk around for 5 minutes before you quit?

Seriously most of you should go back and play some single player RPG's and then realize that an MMO is EXACTLY THE SAME JUST WITH MORE PEOPLE.

RPG's are BY THEIR VERY NATURE Grind games.

 

Now I agree about the instance thing, I don't always like the idea of having multiple versions of a dungeon but honestly it works out better when you think about it.

If you HATE instances go play FFXI for a while and camp the Vulkrum Emperor and you'll realize that grinding through a dungeon to get gear is WAY Better than camping against 20 other people for one monster that has a 6 hour respawn timer.

 

Oh and about how in WoW you "aide" the main characters and in TOR you''ll BE the main character.  There is no way that they will make what you do have world changing effects any more than the way WoW does, it simply DOES NOT WORK for online games.

 

I own the Valkurm Emperor and Leaping Lizzy! I loved them when they werent Rare EX items. Other than that, they were my main cash cow!!! Ahhh, the good ol days! It was also another way for me to... RMT t(^.^t) and all done with a PS2 no hacks!!!!!  Man, I miss that game sometimes... I STRESS SOMETIMES!

Believe me I have fond memories of camping NM's but honestly after a while you kinda realize that eventually everyone will have that item so why do they make it SO BLOODY hard to get?

After playing FFXI for 4 years I totally love instances over camping sorry to say.  >,<

Why does everyone have to be the hero?  What is wrong with being a part of something greater?

I think it'd go leaps and bounds for immersion if you weren't a hero in a world of thousands of other heros.  If the quests and whatnot just involved you being another soldier.

That said...TOR is probably just going to be another in a long line of Everquest clones.  I doubt anything major will be different.

Originally posted by miagisan

Originally posted by Noktaris

You seem to be jumping the gun...nobody really knows how the finished product is going to turn out. But I think that if the end game is lacking the game will flop.  =p   I'm not a WoW groupie...but it does have tons of things to do once you hit level cap.

 

If I was going to make a new MMORPG I would put in solid endgame raiding first as well as other things to keep people interested in the game once they hit level cap. Most these new MMO's I get bored after I hit max level because there is little to do or it's broken/buggy. Like AOC and WAR.

 

i am the exact opposite, i prefer the journey and the story over endgame.

I'm not saying the history,and leveling up process isn't important...It certainly is. But seriously nothing is worse then hitting max level and having nothing to do but start a new character and wait for more content to be put in the game.

Originally posted by Jerid13

You people all act like its some GREAT revelation that WoW makes you "grind" for all your stuff.

So you want to just start out at max level and have all the best gear and walk around for 5 minutes before you quit?

Yeah, pretty much.  Puzzle Pirates pretty much worked that way, and I played that for 7 months.  Guild Wars was reasonably close to that, where you could get a new character to max level with nearly perfect gear in perhaps 10 hours of gameplay, and I played that for 19 months.  Some games do put some genuinely interesting content in, rather than only lots of grinding.  You should try one sometime.

I agree the end game needs to be more than raiding. Devs should realize a large portion of their customers might actually have jobs so they don't have the time to rai d 4 and 5 nights a week. They can have raids if they want but they really should give people other events at endgame. Whether it be large scale pvp battles or long story driven quest lines.

Originally posted by Quizzical

Originally posted by Jerid13

You people all act like its some GREAT revelation that WoW makes you "grind" for all your stuff.

So you want to just start out at max level and have all the best gear and walk around for 5 minutes before you quit?

 

Yeah, pretty much.  Puzzle Pirates pretty much worked that way, and I played that for 7 months.  Guild Wars was reasonably close to that, where you could get a new character to max level with nearly perfect gear in perhaps 10 hours of gameplay, and I played that for 19 months.  Some games do put some genuinely interesting content in, rather than only lots of grinding.  You should try one sometime.

Well believe me I do find enjoyment besides just being a machochistic grinder.  Honestly a lot of the time the storyline does matter to me, but I really am an old school RPGer in the fact that I LOVE CHARACTER BUILDING!   I like starting the game as a piece of crap and winding up both building the character AND learning how to play him (the character) better.

I mean yeah sometimes its real dull to keep doing the same dungeons over and over again to try to get that one piece of gear, but refer to my comment about camping rare spawn monsters and you'll see that honestly its hard to prefer the other way.

Most people really just want to be able to jump into something and play it for an hour and get some sorta enjoyment / satisfaction out of what they just did, not all MMO's allow this, but thats why WOW is successful.

Well, from my point of view.

Originally posted by Jerid13

Originally posted by Proximo521

Originally posted by Jerid13

RPG = GRINDFEST

DUH

You people all act like its some GREAT revelation that WoW makes you "grind" for all your stuff.

So you want to just start out at max level and have all the best gear and walk around for 5 minutes before you quit?

Seriously most of you should go back and play some single player RPG's and then realize that an MMO is EXACTLY THE SAME JUST WITH MORE PEOPLE.

RPG's are BY THEIR VERY NATURE Grind games.

 

Now I agree about the instance thing, I don't always like the idea of having multiple versions of a dungeon but honestly it works out better when you think about it.

If you HATE instances go play FFXI for a while and camp the Vulkrum Emperor and you'll realize that grinding through a dungeon to get gear is WAY Better than camping against 20 other people for one monster that has a 6 hour respawn timer.

 

Oh and about how in WoW you "aide" the main characters and in TOR you''ll BE the main character.  There is no way that they will make what you do have world changing effects any more than the way WoW does, it simply DOES NOT WORK for online games.

 

I own the Valkurm Emperor and Leaping Lizzy! I loved them when they werent Rare EX items. Other than that, they were my main cash cow!!! Ahhh, the good ol days! It was also another way for me to... RMT t(^.^t) and all done with a PS2 no hacks!!!!!  Man, I miss that game sometimes... I STRESS SOMETIMES!

 

Believe me I have fond memories of camping NM's but honestly after a while you kinda realize that eventually everyone will have that item so why do they make it SO BLOODY hard to get?

After playing FFXI for 4 years I totally love instances over camping sorry to say.  >,<

I played for 4 years as well, and instanced areas are nice, but it really depends on what you are instancing. I truly think that instancing RVR would be the way to go.  But it wouldnt be too bad if you had to compete for some of your items. I personally got a kick out of whoopin the RMT.

Looks like the world and character design will make the game less laggy, which is really good

Originally posted by Jerid13

 There is no way that they will make what you do have world changing effects any more than the way WoW does, it simply DOES NOT WORK for online games.

Someone has never played EVE apparently, because what we do does in fact change the game universe quite a bit actually.  Ask the folks who destroyed BOB the other day how much influence just a few can have.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Jerid13

 There is no way that they will make what you do have world changing effects any more than the way WoW does, it simply DOES NOT WORK for online games.

 

Someone has never played EVE apparently, because what we do does in fact change the game universe quite a bit actually.  Ask the folks who destroyed BOB the other day how much influence just a few can have.

 

Not to derail but . . . what exactly happened to BOB?  They have been around for as long as I can remember.

Originally posted by Locklain

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Jerid13

 There is no way that they will make what you do have world changing effects any more than the way WoW does, it simply DOES NOT WORK for online games.

 

Someone has never played EVE apparently, because what we do does in fact change the game universe quite a bit actually.  Ask the folks who destroyed BOB the other day how much influence just a few can have.

 

Not to derail but . . . what exactly happened to BOB?  They have been around for as long as I can remember.

Goon made BoB go boom.....

Yup GooN basically pulled off Industrial Espionage! Heres the article.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/08/13/news_6104775.html

I edited it sorry.

Originally posted by miagisan

Goon made BoB go boom.....

Hah!  So I see.

Originally posted by Jerid13

RPG = GRINDFEST

DUH

You people all act like its some GREAT revelation that WoW makes you "grind" for all your stuff.

So you want to just start out at max level and have all the best gear and walk around for 5 minutes before you quit?

Seriously most of you should go back and play some single player RPG's and then realize that an MMO is EXACTLY THE SAME JUST WITH MORE PEOPLE.

RPG's are BY THEIR VERY NATURE Grind games.

 

Now I agree about the instance thing, I don't always like the idea of having multiple versions of a dungeon but honestly it works out better when you think about it.

If you HATE instances go play FFXI for a while and camp the Vulkrum Emperor and you'll realize that grinding through a dungeon to get gear is WAY Better than camping against 20 other people for one monster that has a 6 hour respawn timer. 

Oh and about how in WoW you "aide" the main characters and in TOR you''ll BE the main character.  There is no way that they will make what you do have world changing effects any more than the way WoW does, it simply DOES NOT WORK for online games.

A RPG game doesn't have to be about grinding stuff. Guildwars is very popular and have little grinding in it.

Just look on the pen and paper RPGs, some are grindy like D&D while other games like White wolfs storytelling games (World of darkness) is about the story and characters, not about gear and monster grinding.

Just because Wow is focused on grinding doesn't mean every RPG game must have it, what makes something a RPG is that it evolves a story and a character. In many games the items you get are important but in some they really doesn't matter.

Still, I think TOR will have at least some grinding and probably a lot more than GW but not as much as Wow.

Originally posted by TsukieU

Why does everyone have to be the hero?  What is wrong with being a part of something greater?

 

I think it'd go leaps and bounds for immersion if you weren't a hero in a world of thousands of other heros.  If the quests and whatnot just involved you being another soldier.

 

That said...TOR is probably just going to be another in a long line of Everquest clones.  I doubt anything major will be different.

Because we can't in real life. It is a cliche to say to be part of something greater. It just means that you are not special and get over it.

Games are fantasy and should let us do whatever we can't in RL.

If you want to play a waiter in a Tatoine restaurant waiting tables, be my guest. I want to be a jedi chopping down sith and crunching whatever foes the galaxy throws at me.