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News & Features Discussion  » Warhammer Online : Age of Reckoning: More Layoffs, Response and Analysis

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122 posts found
  faefrost

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/01/06
Posts: 199

2/06/09 2:05:08 AM#61

I am sure this is not all related directly to WAR's performance, lack thereof, or failure to meet the expectations of EA execs (not MJ, the actual EA suits. There was an obvious disconnect between EA and Mythic about the games expected performance. Mythic seemed to realize it was a niche product, while EA very clearly expected something in WoW's league.)

Lets not forget EA is getting battered on several fronts right now. The ecoomy is souring, limiting the purchase of overpriced console games. They do not have alot of the huge cash cow console games outside of EA sports. Several of those huge non EA non sports franchise games are now owned and operated by their largest competitor, Activision Blizzard.

And they are facing either a major settlement or a probable court decision regarding their largest and most profitable franchise, Maden. Some rather damning smoking gun documents have surfaced indicating some collusion between the NFL Players Association (the players union) and EA regarding screwing retired NFL players out of payments and royalties for their likenesses and records. While EA is not yet a direct defendant in the lawsuit, the new documents will probably send a sh@tstorm their way. Enough to trigger a hugely expensive settlement.

Given that and given EA's tendancy to cut and gut underperforming online games (they have closed more MMO's and online games then any other company), It is likley that Mythic will see some heavy handed cuts. Personally I give MJ to April. After that if Mythic survives as a studio it will be with any independence gutted.

  upupeng

Novice Member

Joined: 2/04/09
Posts: 73

With great power there must
come great responsibility.

2/06/09 2:21:01 AM#62

aha...lol...

  ThomasN7

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 6672

"Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.” - Mordin Solus

2/06/09 2:34:23 AM#63

I just can't think that any good can come from layoffs 4 months after launch. Obviously the game is not that successful and Mythic needs to chnge their approach on how they do things or it is going to be a long uneventful year for them. You also have to factor in that there will be newer mmos soon. If people honestly think gamers will stick around with a game and a company that is having major issues while better games are on the way they are sorely mistaken. Gamers will always flock to the next best thing because they want their moneys worth.

  local93bc

Novice Member

Joined: 12/22/06
Posts: 365

2/06/09 3:17:00 AM#64

Hello!

I would be laying off Play tester's too.

Did you see the Horrible Class balancing?

If they tested this game and did not see any problem then they sure had no reason

To be employed in the first place! 

Duh!

 

Anyone thats payed to sit on his ass and test a game, should at least be good at it!

 

 

 

  daltanious

Elite Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1944

2/06/09 4:41:12 AM#65

I hope War will continue to exist and evolve. On my list it is far behind Wow on second place, but ALL others are even farther on third, fourth, .... It has its share of problems, but overall i like it.

  User Deleted
2/06/09 5:17:03 AM#66

Mythic have yet to release a trial. They have yet to release mass cross-product marketing. They have yet to release in Korea (which WILL see a population increase). In short, this 300,000+ sub number isn't counting Russia and/or Korea.

WAR launched to 750,000 box sales and dropped down to 300,000+ subscribers, which represents roughly a 55% retention percentage. World of Warcraft has a 40% retention percentage on average. AOC sold 1.6 million copies and dropped down to just under 300,000+ subscribers... All in all, Warhammer hasn't got a poor retention ratio.

One of the major problems with WAR was that lack of mainstream marketing. Mythic and EA relied heavily on product relation to sell the game. What I mean by that is they relied heavily on the relation between the MMO and the other Warhammer products popularity to get subscribers. That was a really bad tactic. They felt that because (a) it was so similar to WoW and (b) it was already a successful franchise in other respects, the product would sell itself. Sales were not poor, but they could have been better. EA have stated that they are going to pile money into studios and Mythic will be one of those studios. If EA are wise, some of that money will go into mainstream advertising and product placement on par with World of Warcraft. If EA can put a good marketing campaign in place and Mythic can fix the end game problems, there is no reason what-so-ever why Warhammer Online wouldn't grow. In fact, I'm going to assume that by December next year, Warhammer Online will be north of 500,000 subs... maybe even 1,000,000 if they pull their fingers out.

All this doom and gloom is getting boring, not just at WAR but right across the board.

I just thought I'd also point out that class balance is off so badly because the 4 new classes they've "added" recently were suppose to be there from teh start. Mythic chose to leave them out as they weren't ready yet. Now that they are going back in, we may well see improvements.

  User Deleted
2/06/09 7:33:38 AM#67
Originally posted by Infalible

Mythic have yet to release a trial. They have yet to release mass cross-product marketing. They have yet to release in Korea (which WILL see a population increase). In short, this 300,000+ sub number isn't counting Russia and/or Korea.

WAR launched to 750,000 box sales and dropped down to 300,000+ subscribers, which represents roughly a 55% retention percentage. World of Warcraft has a 40% retention percentage on average. AOC sold 1.6 million copies and dropped down to just under 300,000+ subscribers... All in all, Warhammer hasn't got a poor retention ratio

 

Wow..... just wow

Almost everything you just said is wrong

300k out of 750k in 3 month is a 55% retention rate? Its 41.5% and I didn't need a calculator, 70% monthly retention or so. World of Warcraft has never given any numbers that would make anyone able to know their retention rate, why are you inventing them? The closest I saw was Mark Jacob saying that the industry is guessing WoW has over 75% monthly retention rates.

AoC sold 1.6 million copies? What the hell, where do you get your numbers? They sold half of that, 800k, 4 months after launch.

Russia? Unknown factor, we don't know how much they will account for

Asia? Useless, for every 1 million asian player you only get the profit of 100k american/euro players (guesstimate) because of their payment model. I don't know if this applies to Korea as well though. You also have to comply with the insane chinese laws, recode some of your game etc.

  dterry

Novice Member

Joined: 1/03/07
Posts: 457

"Inanimate objects must pay for their insolence"

2/06/09 8:52:58 AM#68

I quit WAR a couple of months ago and am now back down to just playing EVE. I generally like my SCI-FI with a dose of fantasy on the side so I am left for the first time in years without a fantasy game to play.

Am I the only one who thinks this is a really poor use of the Warhammer IP? I mean... since when did all these various races becomes such good friends that they could draw up two sides?

What happened to Lizardmen and Skaven and Tomb Kings and... ?

This should have been a free-for-all RvR game with each race struggling for domination.

And now with all these layoffs at EA/Mythic I wonder if this will be one of those MMO's that just continues along year after year with few changes and fewer players until it becomes a cheap or F2P game used to get users into the latest EA/Mythic. game like SOE does with their neglected games.

Feel bad for these people, rough time to try to find work...

dave1972 Xfire Miniprofile
  User Deleted
2/06/09 11:04:29 AM#69

If I wanted to use the word monthly, I would have used the word monthly. There is a reason I did not. Also, forgive me for not being a wiz at maths. I admit my percentages were off. Sadly, your information about AoC and WoW is incorrect as far as I have seen. I saw Mark Jacobs make the comment about WoWs retention ratio now, but I read a study into projected sales of WoW in the west and overall retention ratio that suggests the actualy figure per total copies sold is something in the region of 40%-50%. As far as AoC is concerned, they sold over 700,000 copies in 4 weeks, so why you believe they'd sold 800,000 in 4 months is beyond me.

Apologies for the mistakes however.

  Hrica

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/31/05
Posts: 1141

"Yesterday is history, Tomorrow a mystery, and today is a gift"

2/06/09 11:16:27 AM#70

The new Live Event start today, supposed to be VERY good, we will see..

  Grunch

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/05
Posts: 520

2/06/09 2:26:20 PM#71

Whats strange is WAR is a lot more fun then most mmos out right now especially WOW. I think a lot of people get turned off by WAR after they get their butts handed to them in pvp. They start crying about balance and bugs and lack of "war" but when I play there is ALWAYS something going on. The only downfall I see to it is by having only 2 realms there is a higher chance of one team being overpopulated.

"I'm sorry but your mmo has been diagnosed with EA and only has X number of days to live."

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16846

2/06/09 3:36:46 PM#72

Bad news

If things continue like this we will just see the Sims, Fifa and Guitarr hero games from EA

I knew it was crap that they bought Mythic and Bioware.

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16846

2/06/09 3:47:58 PM#73
Originally posted by Grunch

Whats strange is WAR is a lot more fun then most mmos out right now especially WOW. I think a lot of people get turned off by WAR after they get their butts handed to them in pvp. They start crying about balance and bugs and lack of "war" but when I play there is ALWAYS something going on. The only downfall I see to it is by having only 2 realms there is a higher chance of one team being overpopulated.

 

No, I don't think people quit because they suck in PvP. Well some maybe but just a few.

The reason I don't play it is that I don't like what they did to my favorite pen and paper RPG game, they cut out all the dark horror of it, took away the backstabbing and corruption of the empire...

I would love to be able to walk Middenheims streets, to take a boat up the river Reik, to spend an evning in Brettonia with duels and drinking but this game just don't give me the same rush as the pen and paper game. I guess it is not bad for what it is but it could have been so much more.

But I think the main reason many quited was that it is still to close to Wow, and they already have a high level char or more there.

Mythic should have kept the original system of Warhammer and not made it level based. Being close to Wow isn't good, Wow already have it's fans and WAR would have been better if it was closer to the fantastic RPG and tabletop games.

  User Deleted
2/06/09 3:58:37 PM#74
Originally posted by Infalible

If I wanted to use the word monthly, I would have used the word monthly. There is a reason I did not. Also, forgive me for not being a wiz at maths. I admit my percentages were off. Sadly, your information about AoC and WoW is incorrect as far as I have seen. I saw Mark Jacobs make the comment about WoWs retention ratio now, but I read a study into projected sales of WoW in the west and overall retention ratio that suggests the actualy figure per total copies sold is something in the region of 40%-50%. As far as AoC is concerned, they sold over 700,000 copies in 4 weeks, so why you believe they'd sold 800,000 in 4 months is beyond me.

Apologies for the mistakes however.

 

I'm guessing that the WoW retention ratio you mention is more complex than this. It might be the retention after 2-3 months or it would be the actual number of people playing now out of all the boxes sold. 4.5 million players (America/Europe) out of 9-10 million total box sale not including expansions alone. That would be possible although there's never been any official information on this. Mark Jacobs said that their retention rate after the initial free month was 72%+ and that DAoC was 72%. Why would you think that WoW has any less than that when its the most successful MMO there is?

Your right that AoC sold 700k in 3 weeks... no, I had to look it up because I forgot

www.joystiq.com/2008/06/30/age-of-conan-reaches-700-000-players/

Roughly 5 weeks

The 800k comes from their quarterly report from Q2 or 3, I'm not sure which

  popinjay

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/07
Posts: 6638

Aaron Rodgers>Brett Favre

2/06/09 4:40:52 PM#75


Originally posted by Grunch
Whats strange is WAR is a lot more fun *( FOR ME) then most mmos out right now especially WOW. I think a lot of people get turned off by WAR after they get their butts handed to them in pvp. They start crying about balance and bugs and lack of "war" but when I play there is ALWAYS something going on. The only downfall I see to it is by having only 2 realms there is a higher chance of one team being overpopulated.

*Fixed... because apparently over 500k people and dropping, who tried it don't think Warhammer is worth paying for right now.


Doubt all those people got "pwned" and left.

  syntax.error

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/27/04
Posts: 2983

C64 Cracked Warez Intros FTW

2/06/09 6:23:30 PM#76

Ahh the infamous waves of Doomsayers and I told you so. WAR will end soon by 2012 I tell you if it doesnt make it thru 2009.

I love the locals on this forum and their predictions of WAR and what the future holds for Mythic as they post their thoughts.

Honestly, 300k subscribers sounds pretty damn good to me and with the opening of WAR into Mother Russia, yeah this game sure sounds like it wont make it to 2010.

And I love the other posters that stated they want WAR to survive, but now they have their doubts.. I never saw so many hypocrits on this website and double talk.

  warmaster670

Novice Member

Joined: 1/04/08
Posts: 1441

2/06/09 6:29:02 PM#77
Originally posted by Loke666

Bad news

If things continue like this we will just see the Sims, Fifa and Guitarr hero games from EA

I knew it was crap that they bought Mythic and Bioware.

I cant belive how stupid people are when it comes to What EA actually makes.

 

everyone seems to assume if they dont like a game/series then it must be made by EA.

 

Hint, Guitar Hero has NOTHING to do with EA.

Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.

  popinjay

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/07
Posts: 6638

Aaron Rodgers>Brett Favre

2/06/09 6:56:47 PM#78


Originally posted by HiGHPLaiNS
Ahh the infamous waves of Doomsayers and I told you so. WAR will end soon by 2012 I tell you if it doesnt make it thru 2009.
I love the locals on this forum and their predictions of WAR and what the future holds for Mythic as they post their thoughts.
Honestly, 300k subscribers sounds pretty damn good to me and with the opening of WAR into Mother Russia, yeah this game sure sounds like it wont make it to 2010.
And I love the other posters that stated they want WAR to survive, but now they have their doubts.. I never saw so many hypocrits on this website and double talk.

I wouldn't count on Russia being the saviour of anything. In this economy a place like Russia would be not be likely to be gaming. Their economy is pretty shabby and historically they haven't had tons of people propping up many MMOs.


I don't think WAR will die in 2009 personally. It will go on to live a long life as a niche game, which isn't a bad fate for most games. Nothing wrong with niche/small market.


300k isn't so hot when the game isn't paid for yet and daily costs rising throughout Mythic and EA, and with all the forces against it (economy, new MMO releases in 2009). January in the U.S. had 598,000 job losses. When people actually spend their money from now on, they will be choosy. Days of playing games that are just "ok" are gone.


But, go Steelers!

  syntax.error

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/27/04
Posts: 2983

C64 Cracked Warez Intros FTW

2/06/09 7:27:12 PM#79
Originally posted by popinjay

 


Originally posted by HiGHPLaiNS
Ahh the infamous waves of Doomsayers and I told you so. WAR will end soon by 2012 I tell you if it doesnt make it thru 2009.
I love the locals on this forum and their predictions of WAR and what the future holds for Mythic as they post their thoughts.
Honestly, 300k subscribers sounds pretty damn good to me and with the opening of WAR into Mother Russia, yeah this game sure sounds like it wont make it to 2010.
And I love the other posters that stated they want WAR to survive, but now they have their doubts.. I never saw so many hypocrits on this website and double talk.

 

 

I wouldn't count on Russia being the saviour of anything. In this economy a place like Russia would be not be likely to be gaming. Their economy is pretty shabby and historically they haven't had tons of people propping up many MMOs.


I don't think WAR will die in 2009 personally. It will go on to live a long life as a niche game, which isn't a bad fate for most games. Nothing wrong with niche/small market.


300k isn't so hot when the game isn't paid for yet and daily costs rising throughout Mythic and EA, and with all the forces against it (economy, new MMO releases in 2009). January in the U.S. had 598,000 job losses. When people actually spend their money from now on, they will be choosy. Days of playing games that are just "ok" are gone.


But, go Steelers!

 

 


 

I didnt state that Russia was going to save WAR, just saying that it cant be all that bad since the game is expanding to Russia.

The game came out about 6 months ago so its still a baby compared to most mmo's out there. It was also released during the time of a recession as well. As when it comes to the money that WAR owes for its developement, only time will tell us the fate of WAR, but (imo) I dont think this game will fold up unless EA wants it to..

Your right, I believe it will have a niche fanbase that will keep it going, but I dont see anytime soon of a major MMO that will not be a niche game.. Ever mmo we got here is a niche game it just so happens that WoW is the only mmo to be the phenom here for regular mainstream folks.

Your right again popinjay ---- GO SIX-BURGH!

  Raztor

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Joined: 12/19/06
Posts: 683

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2/06/09 7:38:09 PM#80

 Most people are missing he point here. They LOST 450k subs in 3 months, that's over 100k a month. The 300k figure was in December. Do you people think the they magically stop bleeding subs since then? They will be around the 200-250k mark now, maybe lower if the rate at which subs are decreasing didn't change. Heck just look at xfire for the last 3 weeks, if that's not enough look at sales figures from the major retailors or the actions being taken by Mythic now. They are panicking and they know they are in trouble. All remember what MR MJ said before the game released, "if we aren't adding new servers 4 months in then we are in trouble". Major mistakes have been made and in most companies that would mean the head of the company going bye bye. 

 

I would be highly surprised if this game is still up by the end of the year.

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