Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by raedon023

God dammit... stop clumping all of us up as some occult.  I'm a vet and i'm not complaining one bit about SWTOR.   It's going to replace my current mmo.

 

QFE and Truth. Not all of us are sour pusses who want every game to be Pre-CU SWG because they feel their virtual world was  raped and plundered. (That is how so many of them come off as) There were things I liked about it and things I didn't like about it. But I judge every game on it's own merit, not some hard core philosophical vision of how I think ALL MMO games should be.

I don't know that I would call myself a sour puss as I don't feel sour or mad in the direction Bioware is taking. The crafting is what I loved about early SWG and that I could make a character and create a business. I played so many SW related games (computer and table top) that Jedi no longer interest me. TOR is going to be a Jedi focused minimal craft depth game, based on what people like Vogel and Walton have said so far. That's cool. It's not for me. Good thing is there are a few other games on the horizon that look interesting to me.

How that makes me into "killing TOR" beats me. I'm disappointed in their overall direction, enough not to play, but I don't see how voicing that opinion in "killing TOR". Only Bioware can do that.

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by raedon023

God dammit... stop clumping all of us up as some occult.  I'm a vet and i'm not complaining one bit about SWTOR.   It's going to replace my current mmo.

 

QFE and Truth. Not all of us are sour pusses who want every game to be Pre-CU SWG because they feel their virtual world was  raped and plundered. (That is how so many of them come off as) There were things I liked about it and things I didn't like about it. But I judge every game on it's own merit, not some hard core philosophical vision of how I think ALL MMO games should be.

Agreed and agreed. While I am definetly a sourpuss towards SOE and the current version of SWG, I'm in no way hoping TOR is a failure. I won't be bitching because it may or may not be a sandbox. While I do have a bit of trpidation towards the idea of a Jedi centered game, it's admittedly due to the fact that it was done so poorly in SWG. I'm fully open to it being a Jedi centered game as long as it works. Therefore, I'll probably be giving it a go.

The main issue with another SW MMO coming down the pipe, is the fact that SWG had so much potential that many of us are suffering from 'SWGus interuptus' and would love to finish the ride, so to speak, but cannot. And a new SW MMO looks like potential relief. So naturally, there's gonna be high expectations.

Originally posted by nanoviper

I just want to express my annoyance with the SWG fanboys as a whole, and their perpetual pessimism towards this game. The fact of the matter is SWG was a good game, it was complex and quite frankly a work of art as far as games go; But all to often it is forgotten who killed SWG; and hint, hint it wasn't Sony it was the players.                                                                                                                                                                                                            

I challenge you to prove how the five people still playing SWG can derail a tentpole project like TOR .  Hasn't happened, isn't happening, won't happen.  Let the SWG players simmer and fry in the crap that is SOE while the rest of us get a true Star Wars experience from Bioware.  Just ignore them.

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by raedon023

God dammit... stop clumping all of us up as some occult.  I'm a vet and i'm not complaining one bit about SWTOR.   It's going to replace my current mmo.

 

QFE and Truth. Not all of us are sour pusses who want every game to be Pre-CU SWG because they feel their virtual world was  raped and plundered. (That is how so many of them come off as) There were things I liked about it and things I didn't like about it. But I judge every game on it's own merit, not some hard core philosophical vision of how I think ALL MMO games should be.

 

1.)I don't know that I would call myself a sour puss as I don't feel sour or mad in the direction Bioware is taking. The crafting is what I loved about early SWG and that I could make a character and create a business. I played so many SW related games (computer and table top) that Jedi no longer interest me. TOR is going to be a Jedi focused minimal craft depth game, based on what people like Vogel and Walton have said so far. That's cool. It's not for me. Good thing is there are a few other games on the horizon that look interesting to me.

2.)How that makes me into "killing TOR" beats me. I'm disappointed in their overall direction, enough not to play, but I don't see how voicing that opinion in "killing TOR". Only Bioware can do that.

1.) I agree, the crafting and the community was a great part of that game. Far as it being jedi centric, it does make more sennse to have them as a vital component in this game because of the time frame the game is set in. But, I understand your point: Not everyone gets off on being a jedi and hopefully you have more options than that in game. If you read the Dark Bane novels, there WERE jedi and sith controlled armies but also smugglers, Teras Kasis,Bounty Hunters etc. I believe it was mentioned you could be other classes, but I haven't kept up on the Faqs recently.

2.) Pretty much in a nutshell what I said earlier. The consumers buy the game, they don't create the engine, they don't fix the bugs, etc.etc.That all falls on the developers. If a game fails then it's the developers fault for not making a game that had any mass appeal. SWG failed for too many reasons to count, but my biggest issues were the numerous bugs,lag,rubberbanding and broken professions. That's just inexcusable.

What I hate is people often dismiss things like crafting and say it only makes up a tiny percentage of the game. However it isn't about that like Creature Handler in SWG it wasn't about how many people played it but it's another thing to do and it's something that provides a little bit of something for everyone no matter how small. I never crafted in SWG much but I still love dthe system because it added to the atmosphere of the game. I loved traveling to peoples vendors and seeing how the decorated their malls and homes. I loved making friends with crafters and helping them make a pool table using colour crystals as balls lol. These are things that are lost when you ignore the crafting side of a game.

Regardless whether TOR ends up being a good game or not, we can 100% expect:

A certain subset of players to hate on it because it is not SWG (IE sandbox, etc).

A certain subset of players to hate on it because it does not involve the original trilogy.

A certain subset of players to hate on it because it emphasises a Jedi-rich timeline.

A certain subset of players to hate on it because they disagree with the fundamental art direction.

So already there are four groups of players identified, and probably more to come, that will hate TOR and will troll it endlessly. So just expect it, and ignore it, because it won't go away.

I disagree with the OP.  Maybe many of the SWG fans want to turn this into SWG2 (and to be honest I wouldn't have minded if that were the case), from what little we've seen this isn't going to be anything like SWG.

Originally posted by MasterCrysis

then dude, what are ya doing here? seriously. quit posting and don't buy the freakin thing. why do you even care about it?

 

as for everyone else. your an utter idiot if you think Bioware is gonna listen to any fanbois of anything, swg, wow, whatever in making there game.

bioware is only listening to 2 other people. LA representative in there studio, the EA representative in there studio, and themselves. thats it.

if bioware wants to make an swg2, so be it, im sure it'll be great. if they wanna make a star wars wow clone, so be it, i don't be playing but im sure others will.

 

people here asking for things, and telling them to shut up cause you don't want it, then don't come here, don't read it. cause no one wants to hear yout stupid wants and don't wants if you don't wanna listen to others. regardless, bioware isn't listening to any of you nor myself from the get go and likely never will.

LOL.   What do you think the LA and the EA reps are saying? 

They are saying:  "You are going to make this game just like WoW with Star Wars trimmings.  We are going to out WoW, WoW.  We are going to get rich stealing half of WoW's player base away." 

This, no doubt, sounds nearly identical to what the WAR and AoC developers were hearing while they made their game(s).

Recipe for FAIL.  The game isn't even in beta yet and it's already FAIL.

Originally posted by boxfetish

Originally posted by MasterCrysis

then dude, what are ya doing here? seriously. quit posting and don't buy the freakin thing. why do you even care about it?

 

as for everyone else. your an utter idiot if you think Bioware is gonna listen to any fanbois of anything, swg, wow, whatever in making there game.

bioware is only listening to 2 other people. LA representative in there studio, the EA representative in there studio, and themselves. thats it.

if bioware wants to make an swg2, so be it, im sure it'll be great. if they wanna make a star wars wow clone, so be it, i don't be playing but im sure others will.

 

people here asking for things, and telling them to shut up cause you don't want it, then don't come here, don't read it. cause no one wants to hear yout stupid wants and don't wants if you don't wanna listen to others. regardless, bioware isn't listening to any of you nor myself from the get go and likely never will.

 

LOL.   What do you think the LA and the EA reps are saying? 

 

They are saying:  "You are going to make this game just like WoW with Star Wars trimmings.  We are going to out WoW, WoW.  We are going to get rich stealing half of WoW's player base away." 

 

This, no doubt, sounds nearly identical to what the WAR and AoC developers were hearing while they made their game(s).

 

Recipe for FAIL.  The game isn't even in beta yet and it's already FAIL.

WoWs quests affect the outcome of your character or has player housing and I'm sure there will be more features then WoW has to offer. I'm sure this game will not follow AoC or War or WoW for that matter. While you follow the "LAWL WOW AGAIN DURRR" code without any insight into the game. I start to question your train of thought.  What exactly sound identical? are you a LA or EA rep? Are you retarded? one of the three questions are yes. Hint, it is not the first two. You honestly think another company is going to try and mimic WoW after every other failed train wreck the the past. The problem with WAR was not that it was a WoW clone, it was the Itemization being retarded, the boring ass RvR grinding and the PvE is bland.  AoC was/is plagued by no endgame and steep system requirements. While you can play WoW on just about every damn thing.

The only Recipe for FAil, is your logic. Thanks for posting. Keep looking stupid.

Originally posted by Katrar

Regardless whether TOR ends up being a good game or not, we can 100% expect:

A certain subset of players to hate on it because it is not SWG (IE sandbox, etc).

A certain subset of players to hate on it because it does not involve the original trilogy.

A certain subset of players to hate on it because it emphasises a Jedi-rich timeline.

A certain subset of players to hate on it because they disagree with the fundamental art direction.

So already there are four groups of players identified, and probably more to come, that will hate TOR and will troll it endlessly. So just expect it, and ignore it, because it won't go away.

You forgot one:

A certain subset of players to hate on it because Bioware changes something after launch and the players cry "They NGE'd us!" running off into the nether regions of the internet to create "I hate Bioware" websites and troll Biowares and MMORPG.com's boards for years afterward decrying the change that "ruined" their game.

If anything, the ex-SWG players are being laughed/shouted down.  I doubt Bioware cares what people living 5 years in the past think.

Originally posted by Bafucin

Not the SWG fans.

Look at the game (even if it's still not done yet). It's trying to look like WoW. WoW is the only one that can look like that. If they try copy WoW, they fail.

And the weapons are way too big in this game! Clone Wars serie have better looking ones then this!

And if they have Jedi from start, then the game will be full of Jedis and people will get bored fast.

I hope they don't make it cartoonish like it is today. I hope they have more classes then SWG have today. I hope they have an open world. I hope there is a long hard quest or whatever to become a Jedi. I hope they have better looking weapons. I hope they have better looking characters. I hope they don't have so much people with tights. I hope they don't make it too much solo, it is a mmorpg right? And I hope they try come up with something new, not looking at WoW and think that if they do like WoW they will also get 11,5 million players!

I hope a lot! =D

And sorry if my english is not the best....

First, get off the "its trying too hard to be WoW train. Apparently every game that comes out is copying WoW in some way or another. If you speak of the games graphical direction, its called stylized realism. Its not the Warcraft "cartoon" feel everyone seems to talk about. And don't forget, those graphics were based off of Warcraft III and prior games, its was all about their IP for blizz.  And as for your Jedi comment, refer to your timeline and see that in this timeframe there would be plenty of jedi and sith alike, hell the jedi were considered the protectorate of the galaxy, almost like an inter galaxy policia. One more thing, as for your 11.5 million player comment, thats a total anamolly. Games don't need NEARLY that much to be succesful, WoW just did all the right things at the right time.

Fail post is fail.

I admit I was one who was hoping for a better version of SWG when I first heard about TOR.  However, I understand now why that could never happen.  Furthermore, I trust Bioware and feel that if they are to do a SW MMORPG that they will do it right.  I like player housing, sandbox, skill-based games, but that doesn't mean that as a SW fan I won't like TOR.  In fact, I bet I really enjoy it.  It sounds like a very interesting game that SW fans will love.  Hopefully it is good enough to rope in those who do not consider themselves SW fans.  I will give anything SW a try though.

SWG had it's time, but it has came and gone due to mishandling of updates.  Perhaps TOR will be the fresh new popular SW MMORPG that we are all hoping for, but let's let SWG just rest.

riginally posted by Bafucin

Not the SWG fans.

Look at the game (even if it's still not done yet). It's trying to look like WoW. WoW is the only one that can look like that. If they try copy WoW, they fail.

And the weapons are way too big in this game! Clone Wars serie have better looking ones then this!

And if they have Jedi from start, then the game will be full of Jedis and people will get bored fast.

I hope they don't make it cartoonish like it is today. I hope they have more classes then SWG have today. I hope they have an open world. I hope there is a long hard quest or whatever to become a Jedi. I hope they have better looking weapons. I hope they have better looking characters. I hope they don't have so much people with tights. I hope they don't make it too much solo, it is a mmorpg right? And I hope they try come up with something new, not looking at WoW and think that if they do like WoW they will also get 11,5 million players!

I hope a lot! =D

And sorry if my english is not the best....

I like the art direction. It is a lot similar to KOTOR and quite frankly I rather have pleasant to look at graphics than poorly performing attempts on realism.

I seem to disagree with most of your "hopes". Played SWG in the closed beta and never subscribed to it after. It never felt like Star Wars universe to me albeit it tried it best to look like one. Bioware did a lot better job with KOTOR, which is still one of the best, if not the best, Star Wars game ever made.

 I would just ignore it. I am a ex SWG vet and I do not want SWG II.  If I like the game when it releases I will play it. If I don't I will keep playing Eve Online and LOTRO.  Simple- I don't expect TOR to have any SWG features. It is not SOE :)  If you don't get caught up in the hype and the marketing machine you will enjoy it regardless of what people think. And most of all always find out for your self because you may love the game. 

Ofcourse SWG fans would put hate on this game.. the marketing of this game is like LA/Bio sticking their middle finger up at SWG fans. Words like Iconic and Heroic are words swg fans hold with a lot of hatred due to this design goal ruining their game.

Also most SWG fans are hardcore mmoers who understand how an mmo works and those of us who do, know it's almost virtually impossible to have what we call a true MMO experience while going by these design goals. While I havn't actively moaned about the game yet, it's obvious by the game design that it's designed for the mass.. still it will be interesting to see if it can stand up to WoW.

I don't really see the SWG fans killing the game. They are offering opinions based on their experience. I am a SWG vet and I know that SWTOR isn't going to be SWG2. The problem is that they cannot copy WoW.

The WoW model is dead. WoW will be the last major MMO of that design. Why? People have been there and done that. If Bioware is setting their game up anything like WoW it won't do well in the mainstream. It will have the SW fans but it won't gain a huge playerbase. The whole PvE raid endgame with little else besides some instanced PvP is done. It gets boring fast and with each clone it gets exponentially worse. When it gets boring you stop playing. How many of you that played didn't find themselves running inbetween the bank and the AH for an hour doing absolutely nothing?

That brings us to the present. What will new MMO's need to keep people entertained and playing. Well Bioware is gambling on story. The problem with story is that every story has an end. How BIoware handles the end of the story is important. Another way to handle this dilemma is going beyond PvE/PvP which means crafting, housing, customization, player made/driven content, and non combat careers. By adding those things you add playtime to the game. Ask SWG players how long they spent decorating their houses.

So to say the SWG fans are killing TOR is wrong. They are mearly trying to get Bioware to create a game that will allow them a lot of playtime and have a varity of things to do besides the same beat PvE that is in every mmo. If you don't want a game with lots to do then you're crazy.

If you think the WoW model will continue to reign supreme you are naive. Just as WoW took a lot of MMO concepts and wrapped them all up; Bioware needs to do the same and take it one step forward. Otherwise the industry is going to stagnate. Look at console games. They keep evolving and when they don't the games die.

I think SWTOR will be a very fun and indepth game. My only fear is that it will have a finite lifespan with nothing to do after the story draws to an end.

No crafting = no interest for me. 

That was one thing the original SWG did very well and still surpasses anything out there now.  You want a house...you built it.  Want to have your romantic getaway watching two suns set?  You built it where you wanted it.  Clothes...what do you want and in what color? How about a pet to fight alongside you?  No problem.  Then they messed with the system.

There is no game out there that could have matched the original crafting system for complexity.

Originally posted by JediMaya

No crafting = no interest for me. 

 

That was one thing the original SWG did very well and still surpasses anything out there now.  You want a house...you built it.  Want to have your romantic getaway watching two suns set?  You built it where you wanted it.  Clothes...what do you want and in what color? How about a pet to fight alongside you?  No problem.  Then they messed with the system.

 

There is no game out there that could have matched the original crafting system for complexity.

please point out where TOR will have no crafting..as stated by a dev.....

oh wait...you wont find one

I think this game should be judged on it's own merits.

Strange, the SWG vets seemed to have worn out their welcome. Yes, we were victims of LA/SOE retooling their game, but the consensus seems to be that we should just "get over it" by now. I guess that depends on how much emotion you had invested in the game, or even the financial aspects for those that had multiple accounts and characters...all of it changed to something we no longer recognized or enjoyed. It stung...how long should it sting? How long should someone voice their pain? Maybe you'd have to come up with an analogy that would, or has stung you. Ever felt cheated by a company, and had no real recourse? If that company told you "we know it sucks, but we're doing what's best for us", how long would it take before you stopped complaining whenever that company was the topic of conversation?

The problem Bioware's Star Wars MMO is having, is it's still a Star Wars MMO...crazy huh? However, you have to understand that it's a partnership with LA, and it's been said that LA wanted the NGE, and wanted Jedi to be the focus of SWG. With that in mind, it begs the question: Why couldn't they have left us our OT sandbox, especially if this game was being planned? It makes the disaster SWG suffered unecessary because this game is looking more and more like a much better version of the NGE...yet there's still nowhere for the Star Wars "sandbox" fans to go. So what do they have to look forward to? Our game was NGE'd, and although this game might be much better, it's still not what sandbox fans desire.

I remember all the nerfs SWG had long before the CU and NGE were even a thought in a dev's head. I remember those players affected by the nerfs posting their "I QUIT" threads, and all of the "don't let the door hit ya...blah blah" responses. Many must've thought it was funny, or their job, to make those kinds of statements, only to make those same "I QUIT" posts when the nerf bat eventually reached their profession. I tried to warn them, just because it's a profession you don't care about, or thought was overpowered, we should still support those who played those nerfed professions...why? because it will eventually happen to us. We should have concentrated on asking for things for our own professions, instead of complaining about other professions, but it's hard for this type of competitive community to learn that lesson.

What it comes down to is this: If you are excited about what Bioware is doing, that's great for you, and you should feel free to say so, but try to be more understanding to those--even 3 years after--who had their game taken from them, and still have no high quality Star Wars sandbox to look forward to. You don't have to respond to negative posts with more negativity. Believe it or not, SWG vets aren't the enemy of Bioware, or their fellow MMO gamers.