I just want to express my annoyance with the SWG fanboys as a whole, and their perpetual pessimism towards this game. The fact of the matter is SWG was a good game, it was complex and quite frankly a work of art as far as games go; But all to often it is forgotten who killed SWG; and hint, hint it wasn't Sony it was the players.                                                                                                                                                                                                             SWG was great and I have never found a better community of players (which is what caused the game to stay a float for so long), but it seems since the combat update everyone has forgotten all of it's problems. It seems as if none of your recall the class emblances, the credit duping, and the broken promisses for a plot that moved forward with the times and the events associtated with said events. If the game was as godly as some people made it out to be, the forums wouldn't have been as filled with thousands of unfullfilled threats of people quiting and leaving as there were during pre-cu. During the first few weeks of launch there was more hate on those forums then during the CU or even NGE. The fans of galaxies were the ones who jaded the game, they were the ones who brought upon the CU and then the NGE and the're the ones trying to sabotage TOR before its even released.

However, I digress, This is not a flame post, this is a post Begging the community to not judge this game before its released. No, this isn't a sandbox world, No, its certainly not a SWG2, but what it is, is an mmorpg built to entertain the inner starwars fan in all of us, and if its treated the same way SWG was when it was released, with critcism from day one, not taking even 5 minutes to marvel at and praise the developers for what they've accomplished, they'll tune us out, just as the devs at SOE had with the swg playerbase.

My advice is to ignore it rather than feed flames.  Some people simply have observations/opinions, others codemn something they know next to nothing about.  Who cares?  Just do your thing - the game will come and speak for itself when the time is right.

Originally posted by nanoviper

I just want to express my annoyance with the SWG fanboys as a whole, and their perpetual pessimism towards this game. The fact of the matter is SWG was a good game, it was complex and quite frankly a work of art as far as games go; But all to often it is forgotten who killed SWG; and hint, hint it wasn't Sony it was the players.                                                                                                                                                                                                             SWG was great and I have never found a better community of players (which is what caused the game to stay a float for so long), but it seems since the combat update everyone has forgotten all of it's problems. It seems as if none of your recall the class emblances, the credit duping, and the broken promisses for a plot that moved forward with the times and the events associtated with said events. If the game was as godly as some people made it out to be, the forums wouldn't have been as filled with thousands of unfullfilled threats of people quiting and leaving as there were during pre-cu. During the first few weeks of launch there was more hate on those forums then during the CU or even NGE. The fans of galaxies were the ones who jaded the game, they were the ones who brought upon the CU and then the NGE and the're the ones trying to sabotage TOR before its even released.

However, I digress, This is not a flame post, this is a post Begging the community to not judge this game before its released. No, this isn't a sandbox world, No, its certainly not a SWG2, but what it is, is an mmorpg built to entertain the inner starwars fan in all of us, and if its treated the same way SWG was when it was released, with critcism from day one, not taking even 5 minutes to marvel at and praise the developers for what they've accomplished, they'll tune us out, just as the devs at SOE had with the swg playerbase.

You are overreacting hysterally to the legitimate expression of concerns and worries by a small sector of the potential subscriber base.

We - and I include myself among their number - very much enjoyed certain aspects of SWG, the closest game to which the unfolding Old Republic can be judged since they are both Stat Wars games. It is both natural  to discuss perceived differences between them, applauding what we see are strengths and decrying what we see as weaknesses. W have every right to do this on these forums.

Not the SWG fans.

Look at the game (even if it's still not done yet). It's trying to look like WoW. WoW is the only one that can look like that. If they try copy WoW, they fail.

And the weapons are way too big in this game! Clone Wars serie have better looking ones then this!

And if they have Jedi from start, then the game will be full of Jedis and people will get bored fast.

I hope they don't make it cartoonish like it is today. I hope they have more classes then SWG have today. I hope they have an open world. I hope there is a long hard quest or whatever to become a Jedi. I hope they have better looking weapons. I hope they have better looking characters. I hope they don't have so much people with tights. I hope they don't make it too much solo, it is a mmorpg right? And I hope they try come up with something new, not looking at WoW and think that if they do like WoW they will also get 11,5 million players!

I hope a lot! =D

And sorry if my english is not the best....

Originally posted by nanoviper

I just want to express my annoyance with the SWG fanboys as a whole, and their perpetual pessimism towards this game. The fact of the matter is SWG was a good game, it was complex and quite frankly a work of art as far as games go; But all to often it is forgotten who killed SWG; and hint, hint it wasn't Sony it was the players.                                                                                                                                                                                                             SWG was great and I have never found a better community of players (which is what caused the game to stay a float for so long), but it seems since the combat update everyone has forgotten all of it's problems. It seems as if none of your recall the class emblances, the credit duping, and the broken promisses for a plot that moved forward with the times and the events associtated with said events. If the game was as godly as some people made it out to be, the forums wouldn't have been as filled with thousands of unfullfilled threats of people quiting and leaving as there were during pre-cu. During the first few weeks of launch there was more hate on those forums then during the CU or even NGE. The fans of galaxies were the ones who jaded the game, they were the ones who brought upon the CU and then the NGE and the're the ones trying to sabotage TOR before its even released.

However, I digress, This is not a flame post, this is a post Begging the community to not judge this game before its released. No, this isn't a sandbox world, No, its certainly not a SWG2, but what it is, is an mmorpg built to entertain the inner starwars fan in all of us, and if its treated the same way SWG was when it was released, with critcism from day one, not taking even 5 minutes to marvel at and praise the developers for what they've accomplished, they'll tune us out, just as the devs at SOE had with the swg playerbase.

The only one the jaded SWG fans are killing the game for is themselves m8. Anyone with half a brain will look at the game and judge it for itself and not cry doom and havoc solely because it is not enough like the original SWG.

And a good number of those old SWG vets aren't that bad. Sure they dream of glory days and wish there were games like SWG coming out again, but they are willing to give SW TOR a shot as what it is. Of course, there is a big number of people who will denounce the game simple because it will have Jedi as a starter profession and they KNOW that Jedi can only ruin a game (they know this because it happened in thier game, so it will happen in any other as well, logical, isn't it?).

I'll stick with DeaconX on this one. Just let it be. The game will not be -destroyed- by jaded SWG fans. BioWare won't try to please a small, selective little customer base and change all their design around just to accomodate them (because that would be frighteningly like the NGE, don#t you think? :P). They will do their own thing and people will see it for what it is eventually.

Will it be good or bad? Who knows. But that's something to discuss when the game is out.

I think 2010. 2009 is not a good year. =/

So complete lies by Mr. Smedley himself and horrible game "fixes" weren't to blame at all?  Not a single bit?

Originally posted by nanoviper

I just want to express my annoyance with the SWG fanboys as a whole, and their perpetual pessimism towards this game. The fact of the matter is SWG was a good game, it was complex and quite frankly a work of art as far as games go; But all to often it is forgotten who killed SWG; and hint, hint it wasn't Sony it was the players.                                                                                                                                                                                                             SWG was great and I have never found a better community of players (which is what caused the game to stay a float for so long), but it seems since the combat update everyone has forgotten all of it's problems. It seems as if none of your recall the class emblances, the credit duping, and the broken promisses for a plot that moved forward with the times and the events associtated with said events. If the game was as godly as some people made it out to be, the forums wouldn't have been as filled with thousands of unfullfilled threats of people quiting and leaving as there were during pre-cu. During the first few weeks of launch there was more hate on those forums then during the CU or even NGE. The fans of galaxies were the ones who jaded the game, they were the ones who brought upon the CU and then the NGE and the're the ones trying to sabotage TOR before its even released.

However, I digress, This is not a flame post, this is a post Begging the community to not judge this game before its released. No, this isn't a sandbox world, No, its certainly not a SWG2, but what it is, is an mmorpg built to entertain the inner starwars fan in all of us, and if its treated the same way SWG was when it was released, with critcism from day one, not taking even 5 minutes to marvel at and praise the developers for what they've accomplished, they'll tune us out, just as the devs at SOE had with the swg playerbase.

Little maybe but not even close to what people are doing about Darkfall with the 24/7 spam about it for a few weeks now.

Unless you see evidence that Bioware is paying attention to the flamers I wouldn't worry.

 The only people that can destroy a game is the Devs and publishers themselves. 

It's well known that only a tiny fraction of the whole Gamer Population ever browses game forums like these.

Remember the amount of trolling in the WAR forums before it released? Yet they sold over 750k copies world wide.

Remember the amount of trolling in the AoC forums before it released? Yet they sold over 800k copies world wide.

So get over yourself!

What an ignorant post by the OP.  Why don't you go do some research about your beloved TOR (and no, I dont play galaxies) 

Why don't you compare the dev names on tor to the dev names that were on galaxies.  You might find something you didnt want to know.

I trust Bioware more then i do with sony with an MMO.

I think they pushed those back because of EAs losses in money like over 300 million dollars but tor is being published and funded by Lucas Arts so it might not be effected.  Also I think they pushed back dragon age to do a simultaneous release of PC and console versions.

Or they pushed those games back to release tor first so one game wont be over shadowed by the others glory.

Who cares? Once the game goes live if it’s good they’ll get on board or just stay miserable with no game to play. I’m over SWG, I’ve got my great memories of the fun times I had in that game, that’s all I need. Nothing will bring that back so I hope I can find the same fun I had in SWG in TOR. If not I’ll move on once again.

This game, unlike PRE-CU SWG, will focus heavily on Jedi, as seen on the last two videos (particularly the last one). They are holding on to the idea that SW games have to be "heroic and iconic". What rests to be seen is if they will accomplish this or, in their quest for heroism, they will make everyone a hero and thus no one a hero, creating a scene of "Jedi Clone Wars".

Additionaly, I am begginging to question if their professions will in fact include smugglers, commandos, bounty hunters and what not. By the looks of it we will have to choose from Jedi Guardian, Jedi Sentinel, Sith Marauder and so on and so forth.

Originally posted by Hozloff

This game, unlike PRE-CU SWG, will focus heavily on Jedi, as seen on the last two videos (particularly the last one). They are holding on to the idea that SW games have to be "heroic and iconic". What rests to be seen is if they will accomplish this or, in their quest for heroism, they will make everyone a hero and thus no one a hero, creating a scene of "Jedi Clone Wars".

Additionaly, I am begginging to question if their professions will in fact include smugglers, commandos, bounty hunters and what not. By the looks of it we will have to choose from Jedi Guardian, Jedi Sentinel, Sith Marauder and so on and so forth.

That's about every game ever made to this day, including SWG. Keep in mind the average gamer plays to take part in an adventure or story, not to just be some guy who runs macros all day to level their crafter, or buff people in a starport. The most heroic thing the average noob player could do in SWG at one time was go to a mission terminal, take a mission to save the speeder lanes from the likes of an angry lair of Womp rats. lol. The average vets could go out and swat down a Krayt, or a Gorax with his hammer or bare fists, once the beast died, you hit /loot, got some stuff you had to either sell, or use on your other character. wooptie doo. You did this kind of thing day in, day out, met some cool people while you did it, but there is no reason you can't meet cool people in any game. I admit they did a piss poor job on the actual combat system, but the content they have added to SWG since has actually brought some life to a dying game.

Even if pre-cu was still around it would be full of nothing but Jedi since 90% of the players on my server were on the way to unlocking. As far as classes go I think the screen shots hinted at what there may be. Like in the Avoidance screen shot. They of course have mainly focused on Jedi up to this point since during this era Jedi were a big focus. Look around their site; you see other hints at classes. I doubt you only can play as Jedi, though I imagine they will play a role in your individual story, as will other classes.

I dont deny that the whole Force Sensitive idea on SWG was badly implemented (partly because they did not stick to their guns).

But I knew many players (incl muself) who were happy being entertainers, doctors, tailors and what not who dedicated much of their time providing services without the use of macros or cheating in any other way.

OP...It is utter folly to call for a nonpartisan and sober dialogue concerning a Star Wars IP....the history and controversy surrounding this title is to great.

You would have better luck pissing in a fan and not getting wet.

Even if the majority of the MMORPG playerbase was optimistic and upbeat about the condition of the industry your request would still be laughable.

I am a SWG vet,and for the record I don't want to see Bioware develop SWG 2. I want Bioware to follow their vision(it is EA I'm wary about) and deliver an honestly presented and polished title. My curiosity is actually piqued in a positve way about the development of SW:TOR....and that is saying allot because I am one jaded and cynical SOB.

I am willing to give this title a chance for 2 reasons and 2 reasons only.

1.It is Star Wars...nuff said(No other IP has that kind of power over my sensibilities)

2.It is Bioware...good game development reputation.

I will not go in blind and overly stroked however about this game. It is skeptisism to the max for me.

OP if you are naive about this industry then you proceed at your own peril. 

Originally posted by Par`a`dox

Why don't you compare the dev names on tor to the dev names that were on galaxies.  You might find something you didnt want to know.

Yeah, that scares the piss out of me a hell of a lot more than a few irate, pre-CU fanboi twits trolling the mmorpg.com forums.

Originally posted by Hozloff

I dont deny that the whole Force Sensitive idea on SWG was badly implemented (partly because they did not stick to their guns).

But I knew many players (incl muself) who were happy being entertainers, doctors, tailors and what not who dedicated much of their time providing services without the use of macros or cheating in any other way.

Unfortunately the majority of players have short attention spans. I’ve actually heard “if it’s too hard, or takes to long, I don’t wanna do it, or I give up” This is just the way these players are. There seems to be a small group of players who like playing the “support” role in MMOs as well as heroic (us SWG vets).

At this point I wouldn’t worry too much, they did state that there would be something for everyone in their game, from the people who just like to hang solo, to the people who like teaming up and going for the heroic stuff, to the players who just like to be a part of what their guild does. Of course they need to get the “epic junkies” on board first, and stating this early that you can play a “support” role along with your heroic, will scare them off because the first thing they do is say “oh, it’s boring like SWG”. But look at this way; at least they haven’t said there won’t be crafting, dancing or things of that nature yet.

There seems to be this war going on between the vets over on their boards who want player housing, crafting, ect, and the “this is not SWG we want it like WoW folks” It’s BS, but I bet if Bioware can pull this off, we may end up agreeing that each others systems can work together, if it’s done right. I'll say this to any vet, just sign up for their monthly news letters, and hang tight.