The problem I have with EVE Online is whenever I've tried ti get into it I just find the game to be like riding a bicycle up a hill where you have to go through this long grind before you can go down the hill and have fun. The thing is new players want to have fun right away and don't want to have to spend a few months getting their character sorted out until they can realistically be efficient in anything. Take crafting for example I found whenever I tried that out it cost far too much to produce items than what other people are making on the market in bulk and to get to their stage it would take years like. Or mining where sure you can make money at all stages but really it takes months to train to get any good at it.

The thing is everyone talks about finding a Corp is what makes or breaks the game but what I found is finding a good corp in the game is really hard. I spent ages going from corp to corp and each one had hardly any people online doing anything and all anyone would ever do is sign on and change skills and sign off. The problem is the game makes it so hard to find a good corp and theres no good tools to help and everyone seems really rude in the game anyways. All the corps with people online doing anything are all in 0.0 and to get to them you have to spend hours jumping only to constntly get ganked by gate campers.

Thats the problem I have with PVP is this whole loading between zones all the time really gives you the disavantage. I don't see why it would be so hard for the client to have the next jump gate areas pre loaded up so it is a seamless transition between the two. It would be really nice to have like a nicer jump animation and it to blend you into the next envrionment nicely, rather than just seeing loading and being blown up before it has even finished.

Theres my other problem... PVP because as a noob it is VERY hard to get into and it isn't just me but I have 3 real life mates who all started playing mmorpgs beause of World of Warcraft. Before that they were all like "screw paying a monthly fee" and then it's weird because as soon as Blizzard charged a monthly fee it was straigh on the World of Warcraft Band Wagon cause they all happen to love Blizzard. So with each one it was always the same story and including me that we'd log in and wonder what the hell you're meant to do. Quit half way through the tutorial because it was boring as hell and just go out and mine or do agent missions. The problem is that both of these are really repetitive and very very boring. All you do while mining is sit there and transfer ore into the can and then you bring it back to the station if a Ore theif hasn't gotten to your can first. Agent missions are just jump to this random location and kill these npc's and come back and they run in a cycle so you're doing the same ones over and over again.

So getting started to get money to have a better combat ship in PVP is VERY VERY boring! So by this time one of my friends quit and said the game sucks and went back to WoW and complaining how easy that game has gotten since TBC. The other two are still sticking it out in hope that the game becomes fun. So then we eventually have enough money for better frigates because skills are training.

Heres another thing that pissing me off is because everyone says train Learning Skills first atleats to level 3..... why? I don't see the point in learning skills because all they do is make veterans train skills even faster leaving new players even further behind. Also they make the start of a new players experience in the game really unfun because they are told to train these boring skills first and as a new player you really want to be training skills that are getting you somewhere in what you want to do.

Anyways all that happens in our frigates is as soon as we jump into 0.4 you get gate camped and ganked straight away and you're back to square one. This seems like an endless cycle until you have better skills like for a Drake or something. Even then all that seems to happen is you jump into 0.4 and the gate camper brings his 100 ALT accounts and you have no chance. What I don't get is everyone seems to have ALT accounts and seems to buy isk and buy other peoples accounts and CCP allow this? Like all PVP seems to me is about how many accounts you own and how much real life money you have.

So at this point and I swear to God we all happened to buy ISK like everyone else to get better stuff because mining and agent missions are so boring and we all can't find good corps. So we buy better ships with the money but all that happens is you jump into 0.4 and you get ganked by that one gate camping loser and his alts that always seems to be there. It's like how are new players meant to have a chance?

So by this point another mate left and decided mmorpgs suck. Now I'm really trying to make an effort and get into the game so try out the new Factional Warfare but that was no good. The factional warfare channel is full of retards flaming eachother and all that seemed to happen was everyone would gate camp and wait for eachother...... wheres the fun in gate camping? What is it about this stupid game and all the PVP being around gates?

I really tried to like this game and my friends gave it a try too but it was the same result for all of us and we all have similar experiences and we all resorted to buying ISK like everyone else because Agent Missions are boring and so is mining. CCP need to remove that tedious stuff and put in some nice quests and that or just some fun way to make money because the only way is to perform tedious tasks over and over again.

Another thing they need to do is make a better job of introducing noobs to the game and to PVP. I would love some sort of battlegrounds where you don't lose your stuff and you can learn PVP in there to prepare you for the real game or something. Going into the game as it is, really it starts off about trial and error and thats not fun and as a new player you are no match for the veteran gate campers. I want some sort of smooth transition between systems because right now the whole loading into a zone puts you at a massive disavantage and isn't any fun.


I just find EVE Online like many so hard and boring to get into.

I love the look of the PVP tournament and yet why can't we have Arenas like that in the game? I could have done 2 vs 2 with my friend in a PVP arena and had alot of fun. We Have fighting sports in real life and people don't say "sports fighting sucks and it should all be open world" lol so I don't see why you couldn't have sports PVP in EVE with ranks n shit.

so, how did you and your friends like faction warfare?

Did you just ask for 2v2 arena in Eve? seriously are you trying to troll?

Lets say your not a worthless troll, Lets say you really tried to like Eve but couldn't.

Let me help you out a bit since im bored and work doesnt start for another hour.

You say missions and mining are boring so its too painful to grind Isk when just starting out.

Well you can do missions in a fleet (group), you can have a mining Op with your friends. Both missions and mining are alot of fun if not done solo and alone. Later on Low and Null sec mining is a bit more complex and level 4-5 missions are more complex and usually need to be done with a fleet.

You can group up and Rat or bait players into pvp in high sec.

You say that every time you hit a .4 system you get blown up and have to start over?

Have you looked at some guides out of game to help you with low sec navigation?

Have you tried to use the star map to navigate systems? you can see pilot activity in every system and amount of pilots blown up in the last hour, Since you and your friends play you can set up a scout to check an area first (newbs can do this in a shuttle).

You also say it's hard to find a good corp in Eve, well... sometimes this is true. When joining the recruitment channel be more specific about what you are looking for. if you want a large social guild ask. Have you tried to join Eve university? those guys hold all kinds of group activities and even take trial accounts.

I guess if you played WoW the idea of 2v2 or arena combat is something that you could want (if that wasnt a troll comment), To be honest you can run things like Frig wars with friends and corpmates. You set all that stuff up on your own, why would CCP have to set up a arena feature for you?

Get a couple friends, fly to a planet and ask if anyone wants to 3v3 with you guys.

Anyway hope this helps.

The learning skill is grossly overpowered and need to die. It is unfun, and BORING. There's nothing worst than having a hundred people tell you in rookie chat to max your learning which can take up to a week, when as a new player you should be training more exciting skills to get you into the game.

As for general improvements to the game, I have no idea where to start. The game is so utterly brutal on noobs like myself that it remind me of the History Channel show on the Spartans and how they throw unworthy babies off a cliff. But even that is too carebare compared to EvE.

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Originally posted by Kexin
The learning skill is grossly overpowered and need to die. It is unfun, and BORING. There's nothing worst than having a hundred people tell you in rookie chat to max your learning which can take up to a week, when as a new player you should be training more exciting skills to get you into the game.
As for general improvements to the game, I have no idea where to start. The game is so utterly brutal on noobs like myself that it remind me of the History Channel show on the Spartans and how they throw unworthy babies off a cliff. But even that is too carebare compared to EvE.

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go and play wow

Originally posted by Kexin

The learning skill is grossly overpowered and need to die. It is unfun, and BORING. There's nothing worst than having a hundred people tell you in rookie chat to max your learning which can take up to a week, when as a new player you should be training more exciting skills to get you into the game.

As for general improvements to the game, I have no idea where to start. The game is so utterly brutal on noobs like myself that it remind me of the History Channel show on the Spartans and how they throw unworthy babies off a cliff. But even that is too carebare compared to EvE.

LOL! all those pilots that are telling you to train learning to IV and advance learning skills to III are expecting you to play for the long haul.

If you're on a trial account and just want to try the game I suggest you train the base learning skill to 3 for a bit of a boost (this takes a day at the most) during this time you should be running tutorials, missions/mining and asking questions or reading guides players have linked you in rookie chat.

Once you get urself into a decent Frig and train skills to use a Web/scram and MWd (or ab if you want) you can try to bait players or link up with some players and pvp a bit.

I personally ran the Eve trial like 3 times befor ei got hooked on the game, the damn game was even harder to get into back then. I understand this game is newb unfriendly and some players like to prey on new players lack of experience. Hang in there.

CCP have actually said that they are working on some sort of arena feature where you can put in restrictions on ships and mods etc.

The main reason being to make it much easier to organize things like the alliance tournament but it would be open for anyone to use.

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Originally posted by Kexin
The learning skill is grossly overpowered and need to die. It is unfun, and BORING. There's nothing worst than having a hundred people tell you in rookie chat to max your learning which can take up to a week, when as a new player you should be training more exciting skills to get you into the game.
//edited quoting failure

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/signed

CCP knows that learnings are horrible, and i actually expect them to kill them completely at some point.
They're nothing but an idiotic timesink, sadly..

To actually answer the question in the topic:

No, they don't design for noobs. Noobs get killed in Eve, humihilated, buy isk to compete, get killed again, post on the forums and emo rage quit.

Newbies, on the other hand...
The way the skill system works favours not only specialization, but makes vertical skill progression very fast. After reaching a certain point, only horizontal skill progression exists, and this is where some of the more recent additions come in, like the Electronic Attack Frigates. Also, the combat system makes a simple, inexpensive frigate an important asset even for fleets of experienced, old players. There's a reason why some large alliances push their new players into those frigates and train them that way. Goonswarm, as an example, uses hordes of extremely inexpensive frigates in fleet fights. Their newbies get to learn how a fleet operates, learn how to play, and have an important role.
At the same time, they can get killed multiple times in a fight, run back, grab a new ship for free, and return..

Originally posted by cosy

 

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Originally posted by Kexin
The learning skill is grossly overpowered and need to die. It is unfun, and BORING. There's nothing worst than having a hundred people tell you in rookie chat to max your learning which can take up to a week, when as a new player you should be training more exciting skills to get you into the game.
As for general improvements to the game, I have no idea where to start. The game is so utterly brutal on noobs like myself that it remind me of the History Channel show on the Spartans and how they throw unworthy babies off a cliff. But even that is too carebare compared to EvE.

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go and play wow

It's people like Cosy that cause EVE the bad repuation. So ignore him.

I have been playing EVE Online for about 2 years and had great fun during that time.

But you know how it goes, getting girlfriend and girlfriends don't like Uber Geek games like EVE Online.... so I end up playing games like LOTRO and AoC again. 

EVE Online is a very New Player unfriendly game (hate the word noob). They tried to enhance it during the years, but still failed somewhat in that terrain.

There plenty of excellent guides on the internet, but these are so well written that they turn out to be complete books that overwhelm you as well.

BUT! There is light in the end of the tunnel!

CCP seems to be working on a brand new Tutorial and New Player Experience with the upcoming expansion that is about to release in March. That is also going to enhance the PVE experience finally!

And I cannot wait to try it out and see what they come up with!

...and then maybe... when Ambulation releases.... I might even get my girlfriend into the game. 

theres a lot of complaining here. eve is a sandbox, you make your own goals, it will not hold your hand and point you towards the next dungeon.

that said, i admire you for your willingness to pvp early on, well done, thats the right attitude to have. but dont wait to get a drake before you start, because the drake will die too, just be a more expensive loss. you say that you skipped the tutorial, that was a mistake, i suggest you read that and some of the piracy guides on the offical forums and wikipedia, hopefully you'll start to enjoy yourself more with a few kills under your belt.

oh, and i agree, learning skills were a mistake. new players should start with the basic ones maxed at least.

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Originally posted by Guillight

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Originally posted by cosy

 

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Originally posted by Kexin
The learning skill is grossly overpowered and need to die. It is unfun, and BORING. There's nothing worst than having a hundred people tell you in rookie chat to max your learning which can take up to a week, when as a new player you should be training more exciting skills to get you into the game.
As for general improvements to the game, I have no idea where to start. The game is so utterly brutal on noobs like myself that it remind me of the History Channel show on the Spartans and how they throw unworthy babies off a cliff. But even that is too carebare compared to EvE.

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go and play wow

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It's people like Cosy that cause EVE the bad repuation.

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Ps: this thread is not why your gf dont play eve is about content for n00bs

Grow the heck up, cosy.

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Originally posted by batolemaeus
Grow the heck up, cosy.

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ppl who dont understand some game mechanic and ask: how is this working? what make that? how you use this? etc etc that ppl deserve attention and explication

Originally posted by hyzzaza

If only eve was interesting or original in any way... if only. I mean dont get me wrong i love spending hours on end doing fuck all and flying round in my spaceship doing stuff but i mean srsly, why would you play this for any other reason than severe boredom. Its kinda bad. 

I've played every freaking P2p mmo you can think of and after two years Eve still holds me.

IN the two years that i've played the game the only time I could honestly say I was bored was when I was trying to play Eve on an old laptop(during a business trip) that couldn't run the game with more then 5 ships on the screen.

I can't say that for any other game.

While you consider eve boring I consider it the best damn MMO ive ever played. This coming from a guy that played UO, EQ, SWG,DAoC and WoW all before each game started to suck due to shitty dev decisions.

I find it amazing that people find this game boring..... actually now that i think about it, maybe its possible if you never ventured lower then .5 space or uninstalled once you found out it was a click to move game.

Originally posted by metalhead980

Originally posted by hyzzaza

If only eve was interesting or original in any way... if only. I mean dont get me wrong i love spending hours on end doing fuck all and flying round in my spaceship doing stuff but i mean srsly, why would you play this for any other reason than severe boredom. Its kinda bad. 

 

I've played every freaking P2p mmo you can think of and after two years Eve still holds me.

IN the two years that i've played the game the only time I could honestly say I was bored was when I was trying to play Eve on an old laptop(during a business trip) that couldn't run the game with more then 5 ships on the screen.

I can't say that for any other game.

While you consider eve boring I consider it the best damn MMO ive ever played. This coming from a guy that played UO, EQ, SWG,DAoC and WoW all before each game started to suck due to shitty dev decisions.

I find it amazing that people find this game boring..... actually now that i think about it, maybe its possible if you never ventured lower then .5 space or uninstalled once you found out it was a click to move game.

and here he made a post earlier stating he never played a mmorpg before lol.....

and i agree with metal, this is the only game which gives me the total freedom, intricacies, and complexities a sim / mmorpg could give.

Ive been playing for a few weeks.  EVE is hard, can be cruel, and requires a lot to learn to really get going.

I love it. 

As a side note, the most helpful person I have delt with in this game so far has been Cosy, from helpful links and an infusion of starter cash (which honestly has really helped as a catalyst to stay afloat so far).

When EVE was released it was alot harder on the newbie, but I never experienced that time myself.

However, since I started following has been added/improved which benefits newbies :

- Better tutorial

- Jump to 0

- 800k SP's ( instead of 60k )

- More and better missions and mission system

- Easier to get jumpclone

- Factional warfare ( easier and cheaper pvp )

- Improvements in the interface

- Dont need basic learning skills at 5 for advanced learning skills, only need lvl 4

- You can buy GTC with RL money, convert them to plexes and sell for ISK, for 30€ you can get around 600mill isk I believe, so you can buy some implants to catch up with the vets and have alot of money left for experimentation with ships and fittings. And once you start making some nice money yourself, you can buy GTC's for ISK, so it comes full circle.

- And prolly alot more that I am forgetting now

And they keep adding and improving :

- the tutorial will be improved once more with the next expansion

- More interesting missions will be added, wormholes will also open from higsec space and the new regions cant be claimed by 0.0 corps/alliances

- Walking in stations may not be specifically for newbies, but will be interesting for newbies and a safer way to experience the game.

- And prolly alot more that I am forgetting now

The only thing CCP should avoid is dumbing down the game.

The thing is they start new players off with more than back in the day but don't forget that veterans had far less and people were on more of an even playing field. Noone had 100 Skillpoints and 8 ALT accounts camping a gate and most people back then would have had one account and grouping with people and as they became more ahrdcore about the game, then purchased more accounts. There are more established pirates in the game these days and there are far more people online at any one time now which makes te galaxy more dangerous. There are far more ships to counter these days too when back in the day there was only really one and that was the Caldari Raven that everyone used. So really Noobs have a much harder time of it and as there are more gold farmers and more people all the safe belts are dry.

I say give another use to Learning skills or take them out of the game completly and give people the option to put them skillpoints in something else.

I say cap the total skill points you can have like SWG and make it so you have to keep dropping skills and training new ones to do other things in the game because being able to keep becoming more efficient at everything is not good.

I say ease new players into the game better than they are doing by giving better and more fun tutorials and by giving a more clear route to factional warfare and by having arenas for them where they can't be podded like the Tournament.

These things have no effect on the capital ships online end game and why wouldn't people want arena fights with ranks? It is fun and helps new people get used to the PVP in the game with fair rules instead of being raped by 1 gate camper and his 8 ALTS.



All I hear from new players is how they quit cause the game is boring or too hard and so it'll never grow truely until EVE makes it fun to get into.

Originally posted by John.A.Zoid

The thing is they start new players off with more than back in the day but don't forget that veterans had far less and people were on more of an even playing field. Noone had 100 Skillpoints and 8 ALT accounts camping a gate and most people back then would have had one account and grouping with people and as they became more ahrdcore about the game, then purchased more accounts. There are more established pirates in the game these days and there are far more people online at any one time now which makes te galaxy more dangerous. There are far more ships to counter these days too when back in the day there was only really one and that was the Caldari Raven that everyone used. So really Noobs have a much harder time of it and as there are more gold farmers and more people all the safe belts are dry.

I say give another use to Learning skills or take them out of the game completly and give people the option to put them skillpoints in something else.

I say cap the total skill points you can have like SWG and make it so you have to keep dropping skills and training new ones to do other things in the game because being able to keep becoming more efficient at everything is not good.

I say ease new players into the game better than they are doing by giving better and more fun tutorials and by giving a more clear route to factional warfare and by having arenas for them where they can't be podded like the Tournament.

These things have no effect on the capital ships online end game and why wouldn't people want arena fights with ranks? It is fun and helps new people get used to the PVP in the game with fair rules instead of being raped by 1 gate camper and his 8 ALTS.



All I hear from new players is how they quit cause the game is boring or too hard and so it'll never grow truely until EVE makes it fun to get into.

and yet they keep growing in subs and concurrent users? How many other games can say with honesty they keep growing every year? EVE doesn't hide their population numbers, and there are sites out there which do nothing but monitor them.  So it seems to me, alot more people are enjoying an EVE-type game than ever before.

Originally posted by miagisan

Originally posted by John.A.Zoid

The thing is they start new players off with more than back in the day but don't forget that veterans had far less and people were on more of an even playing field. Noone had 100 Skillpoints and 8 ALT accounts camping a gate and most people back then would have had one account and grouping with people and as they became more ahrdcore about the game, then purchased more accounts. There are more established pirates in the game these days and there are far more people online at any one time now which makes te galaxy more dangerous. There are far more ships to counter these days too when back in the day there was only really one and that was the Caldari Raven that everyone used. So really Noobs have a much harder time of it and as there are more gold farmers and more people all the safe belts are dry.

I say give another use to Learning skills or take them out of the game completly and give people the option to put them skillpoints in something else.

I say cap the total skill points you can have like SWG and make it so you have to keep dropping skills and training new ones to do other things in the game because being able to keep becoming more efficient at everything is not good.

I say ease new players into the game better than they are doing by giving better and more fun tutorials and by giving a more clear route to factional warfare and by having arenas for them where they can't be podded like the Tournament.

These things have no effect on the capital ships online end game and why wouldn't people want arena fights with ranks? It is fun and helps new people get used to the PVP in the game with fair rules instead of being raped by 1 gate camper and his 8 ALTS.



All I hear from new players is how they quit cause the game is boring or too hard and so it'll never grow truely until EVE makes it fun to get into.

and yet they keep growing in subs and concurrent users? How many other games can say with honesty they keep growing every year? EVE doesn't hide their population numbers, and there are sites out there which do nothing but monitor them.  So it seems to me, alot more people are enjoying an EVE-type game than ever before.

You have to think though that alot of them are going to be ALTS and I see one guy with like 8 accounts gate camping and since allowing 4 clients running at the same time there must be alot of hardcore people running multiple settings. Sure EVE has grown and there are more people than before but that is just down to the marketing CCP has been doing in recent years and nicer looking graphics. Also before WoW not many people were willing to spend a monthly fee but Blizzard opened up the floor gates so 2 years after WoW people are getting bored of that game and trying other mmorpgs.

This is a grace period that CCP have to take advantage of and I bet way more people have tried the game and hated it than current subs which to grab new people you have to make it fun and exciting and easy for them to get into the game. Punishing at the first step puts 90% of people off.