thats how I felt about people who were playing Sword of the new world, Point click kill... and sit in 1 spot killing for 10 hours to get 0.01% of a level Ok maybe its more like 5% of a level, but still you see my point.

It was a pathetic Korean grinder the worse game I ever played. The reason I can stand WoW clones is because of  Sword of the new world, I experienced grinding hell, and once I did being back in WoW clone Garbage was suddenly not to bad. But for the most part, the biggest reason why I don't mind them is because I have recently become a very casual mmorpg player. I play the game read all the quests join Role playing guilds, and dont worry about end game gear or levels. Play a game like that and you can have fun Well... as long as you can let go of your online Ego/ pride and not mind being low or mid level for a long time with mediocre gear, but in Role playing communities that matters little.You would be surprised how much fun in a different element you are missing when you become one of those race to max level get the best gear players, there is so much more fun to be had in mmo's if you look at the other side of that.

Even on Free 2 play games, Currently playing Runes of Magic and Atlantica online, and I am having a blast doing it

Originally posted by LoNeOwNz

Agreed. No games currently give us the freedom to play as we like. All it is is questing, grinding pvp or raiding, and waiting for the next expansion.

Player run events are virtually non-existant and the community is a joke.

 

 

This coming from a WoW perspective.

Darkfall says to have the freedom you are craving.

Lineage 2 has been surviving (quite well) off nothing other than player run events for the past 5 years.

Originally posted by Centhan

Originally posted by MindTrigger

While I sympathize with you all completely, and I've been talking about this subject for ages, I have to say that threads like this make me happy.  The tide is turning on the MMO genre.  We've all done the theme park thing to death, and now more and more people want to go back to games that allow personal expression and freedom.

While I am an advocate of sandbox games were I can forge my own path through the game world, I'm not saying we need total sandbox gameplay to fix the genre.  A nice blend of theme park and sandbox play would be welcome.

 My feelings too.  I'm currently not subscribed to any MMO for the same reason.  I've just done the whole hand-holding, quest driven, number crunching, kill-loot-level thing until my head exploded.  Simply looking for some developer to make something...ANYTHING that feels different.

I keep coming to this site in the hopes that I see news which shows that some upcoming game is heading in that direction.

From being a huge Planetside fan, I felt that was the closest thing to what I was looking for.  It could have been expanded from something great, to something spectacular, but alas...

Currently playing Medieval2: Total War, Oblivion (although not so much because it's somewhat like the MMOs I've gotten away from), and Team Fortress 2 for my online fix.  Waiting for the release of Empire: Total War in a month.

You sound like me, minus wwiionline.  I played wwiionline for 7 years, 4 months on Planetside.  Can't wait for Empire: Total War or Diablo 3.

Total War MMORTS would be great.

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Only a simpleton would find the mindless, thoughtless drivel of hack n slash to be a fun activity, and actually fall for the illusion of power and achievement that current MMOs provide.

Conquering a fortress is an achievement. Taking control of an area is an achievement. Crafting an amazing gun is an achievement. How is Killing X until you have Y reputation an achievement that is fun in anyway? You didn't achieve something that others couldn't because you had more skill. You didn't achieve something others couldn't because you are better. You achieved something because you had more time to waste. Not fun imo.

LIke it or not, that is waht most people like. And what is wrong with some mindless fun? You don't play FPS? You don't watch big blockbuster movies?

Such elitist attitudes. Killing x enemies is fun if the combat mechanics is fun. If the graphics is cool and if the mob explodes with a satisfied "booomm......". Crafting a gun is not an achievement if all you do is grind your material. It is the same thing. Conquering a fortress ... i don't wat is the big deal ... it is done everyday in wintersgrasp in WOW. That is not more fun than say doing quests. (Though i do that too.)

We are talking about *games* here. They are supposed to be entertainment. When i want *real* achievement, i go write academic papers.

Originally posted by TdogSkal

Originally posted by LoNeOwNz

Agreed. No games currently give us the freedom to play as we like. All it is is questing, grinding pvp or raiding, and waiting for the next expansion.

Player run events are virtually non-existant and the community is a joke.

 

 

This coming from a WoW perspective.

 

Darkfall says to have the freedom you are craving.

Freedom with no content is BORING.

"How do you continue to play these MMO's?"

Interesting question, I would say that I'm still able to enjoy MMO's because I don't play them from a competitive frame of mind. I don't aim to "win" the MMO, I just aim to enjoy them.

I find that when you have a relaxed attitude, you enjoy the game a hell of a lot more.

Most people who play these games don't post here.  They're happily living out their mindless addiction.

        Hey OP how did you even survive a year in LoTRO?? I was bored to tears after a month........

Originally posted by Theocritus

        Hey OP how did you even survive a year in LoTRO?? I was bored to tears after a month........

I lasted about 2 months.

I lasted one month and came back a year or so later and lasted 1 week my second time through. I don't like the excuse "well you need to devote more time to enjoy the game" first impressions are everything and i feel that I should be able to hop on and have a blast experiencing something new every time. if a game is boring and has you doing the same shit right out the gate people are going to be less likely to keep playing your product. A game should give you purpose, meaning and really grab you by the balls while your playing. I want to say "wow that was fun and fucking cool" not "I need to do this and this and this"

Originally posted by Impact1986

I'm in the same boat bro. Seems like 90% of the content in these games is made to keep you PAYING not necessarily to entertain you. Huge constant time sinks are rampant "faction grinds for example". Then you got your tards "god knows there is plenty of them in the MMO community" that think, time sinks = hardcore and challenge. the fact is wasting and devoting tons of time into something doesn't make it challenging at all or even fun for that matter, in fact it makes is tedious, boring, tiresome and dull. 

You said it right. its the way most gaming companies take to make profit. they would never make an entertaining game at the expense of life span.

Originally posted by Theocritus

        Hey OP how did you even survive a year in LoTRO?? I was bored to tears after a month........

Good question.  I was in BETA and liked how polished the game was, but felt  something was lacking.  I actually purchased LOTRO but didnt play it for the first 3 months of its release.  I went back to Ultima Online during that time and had a decent experience with an old guild and friends.  Nonetheless, I had to leave UO because I just couldnt deal with all the new changes.  I ended up missing how the game was back in 1997-98 too much.

So, I went started LOTRO up basically because there was nothing else at the time.   I would have quit early on but joined a great guild and had some good times.  Mostly in ventrilo , to be honest.  I really wanted to continue playing an MMO after UO and SWG and this was my best option at the time.  

Warhammer Online really opened my eyes up because of the RVR and fast gameplay.  Also, didnt have that grind effect.  WAR isnt perfect but it was more entertaining than LOTRO.  That got me to finally cancel my LOTRO acct. 

Originally posted by Impact1986

I'm in the same boat bro. Seems like 90% of the content in these games is made to keep you PAYING not necessarily to entertain you. Huge constant time sinks are rampant "faction grinds for example". Then you got your tards "god knows there is plenty of them in the MMO community" that think, time sinks = hardcore and challenge. the fact is wasting and devoting tons of time into something doesn't make it challenging at all or even fun for that matter, in fact it makes is tedious, boring, tiresome and dull. 

right now I'm playing world of warcraft after being convinced by friends thats its the greatest mmorpg ever and tons of fun. I have been using refer a friend and I'm about to hit lvl 70 and guess what? I'm bored off my ass due the fact a lot of the content while creative isn't very compelling and is essentially the same through the entire game.

 

FFXI for something new and fresh or back to age of conan. im undecided on which at the momentany suggestions are appreciated.

This is an exceptional reply.  I myself fell into this trap in LOTRO.  I felt that all my grinding actually meant I was a great player or I had accomplished something great.   But, anyone with time could easily accomplish what I had. 

Here is something else to think about.  Say LOTRO your in a guild of 50 great players.  Do you really need anyone else on the server to play the game ?  All I had to do was run with my guild through all the content.  I didnt need to depend on anyone else on the server.  Hell, we could have had our own guild server and I wouldnt have noticed.   

Now in Warhammer, If you don't have others on the server, there won't be any one to fight in RVR or anyone to defend keeps against.  Its dependent on other people to play.   In a large battle, you can't defend a keep with 6 guild mates when its being attacked by 40 enemy players.   You will need random people to join your WB to help out.  Even if you had 50 great players, your still gonna need 50 people on the other side to fight.

Same with UO, there werent quests and raids.  The community made towns and players made up quests.To be a player killer, u needed people to kill.  To defend a player run town and people that would shop there, u needed player killers.  To fight against evil players, you needed Player Killers or a guild to war with.   Because there wasnt uber gear / loot drops, you needed crafters.   Your armor and weapons would decay, you needed a smith.  You would get looted, you needed crafters again.  

You needed a community.   For me, thats what an MMO is about.  Community dependence.  Not 100% developer dependent.  

Think about that one.

Originally posted by VishiAnand

Originally posted by Impact1986

I'm in the same boat bro. Seems like 90% of the content in these games is made to keep you PAYING not necessarily to entertain you. Huge constant time sinks are rampant "faction grinds for example". Then you got your tards "god knows there is plenty of them in the MMO community" that think, time sinks = hardcore and challenge. the fact is wasting and devoting tons of time into something doesn't make it challenging at all or even fun for that matter, in fact it makes is tedious, boring, tiresome and dull. 

You said it right. its the way most gaming companies take to make profit. they would never make an entertaining game at the expense of life span.

lol

How do I continue?  Not easily.

Since UO, only AC and Shadowbane have kept my attention for any significant period of time.  But I'm also open to other "genres" of MMOs, too.  LOTRO, recently, has been enjoyable to me because of its narrative structure and the sense of exploration I get from it.  I wish Turbine wasn't tied to the lore, though what they've done in presentation keeps me coming back.

I really want to play EVE, but my trial experience with it was very...intimidating.  I don't know anybody who plays so I'm left reading updates from time to time.  A real shame since I think it'd be a lot of fun in a corp.

It just kills me that the first MMO I played hasn't been matched, though. UO was a game in which I could just run around and have fun without caring about my level or any quests.  That would be such a relief now.

Originally posted by chrswlf

How do I continue?  Not easily.

Since UO, only AC and Shadowbane have kept my attention for any significant period of time.  But I'm also open to other "genres" of MMOs, too.  LOTRO, recently, has been enjoyable to me because of its narrative structure and the sense of exploration I get from it.  I wish Turbine wasn't tied to the lore, though what they've done in presentation keeps me coming back.

I really want to play EVE, but my trial experience with it was very...intimidating.  I don't know anybody who plays so I'm left reading updates from time to time.  A real shame since I think it'd be a lot of fun in a corp.

It just kills me that the first MMO I played hasn't been matched, though. UO was a game in which I could just run around and have fun without caring about my level or any quests.  That would be such a relief now.

Yea, people say you can't match your first MMO experience.  Since mine was UO,  its even harder. 

Most of the things you guys are asking for you can find in EvE.  Hell, it practically IS one big player run event.  I tried WoW and LOTRO and quit out of boredom after a couple months in each.  I've been subbed to EvE with a couple accounts for the better part of 4 years now.. and I still frequently find it as fascinating as I did in my first months.  I consider it money well spent, and I'll be staying with EvE for many more years I imagine.

After 4 years with multiple characters there are still parts of the game that I know almost nothing about... always a new frontier.

Originally posted by GungaDin

 MMO's I enjoyed, UO and early SWG.   Tried WOW for 2 weeks and couldnt stand it.  Then I joined LOTRO, because UO had changed, SWG went down the shitter and there was nothing else that  I was interested in.  

Played LOTRO for a year, grinding, questing, exploring..........over and over.

How do you guys keep playing games like this?  How can you stand it?  The only MMO i'm playing now is WAR because I can just log in and start playing right away.  Do a scenario, some PVP or a PQ with a group.  Quests ?  Havent done any in 2 months.  I'll never go back to that kind of gameplay.  

Now I know everyone has their opinion and likes a certain gameplay, but how do you play WOW type clone for so long?  Do you just like the torture ?  

You like playing with your friends , ok I understand.  You want to play with others somehow and feel part of a community.   This type of gameplay just seems so boring to me now.   I don't know, guess i'm just and angry UO veteran looking for an MMO with more freedom and where the community itself created content.  Making up player run event, setting up a player run town and waring other guilds whenever u wanted.  

Sorry for my rant, Warhammer is great but I think we can do better still.  I just feel we have taken a step back from what UO offered us in terms of an online world.

The reason i play and love these games is because i have real life friends to play with. There is a big difference in buying a mmorpg as a single individual sharing your gaming experience with random people online, be it a guild you joined or online friendships. To having 2 or 3 real life friends you meet with in real life. That increases the game experiences 200%. Even crappy VG was awesome despite all it's flaws because of this. The perks are obvious

You have more loyalty.

No loot whoring.

You never have to look for a group. You and your rl friends are the group.

Planning your tradeskills amongst each other and you will never need anything from anybody.

You don't have to worry about paying for tradeskill materials.

You can spend endless hours discussing the game when you meet in rl about ingame experiences.

You just can't beat the team play experiences AND the game experiences you get from it.

If you start playing a game alone and start looking for friends in the game to do stuff with i can completely understand why people find these types of games off putting. It becomes even more difficult to get into if you are an introverted person that prefers to solo most of the time.