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Originally posted by BelphegorMad
Haha, such a wasted time "reaserching" which has been "researched" before.
OP is clearly forgetting one simple fact, there are already thousands of players in the beta, with hunders being added each they and it seems almost all of them are damn happy with the way game is coming so far :)

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Really??

I provided links as proof as such statements I stated in my OP.

Now, it is YOUR turn.

About the THOUSANDS of players in the beta NOW. Where is your proof of that?

About "hundreds of new players added to the beta each day" - Again, where is such proof?

And almost ALL of them happy about the game?? That is COMPLETELY OPPOSITE of the few beta leaks I have read myself. So again, I wonder where your proof of almost all beta testers being "damn happy with the way the game is coming"... I suppose that you also have no links to that.

You can't post links to beta leaks here on these boards, but I'd love to see the links of the thousands of players in the Darkfall beta now and hundreds more being added each day. And if this is just from what Tasos has said somewhere in the Darkfall forums or something... Uhhh, I think I already provided plenty of proof as to not ever trust anything that guy says. So I'd ask for some other sorta proof of this, not some link to even more obvious lies from Tasos himself. Providing such a link would only confirm to me that it is complete BS. ;-)

- Zaxx

Originally posted by zaxtor99

 

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Originally posted by TheHavok
People take games WAY too seriously.  Ah well, this seems to happen whenever a very hyped up game is about to release. 
 
 

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I getcha. But let's pretend for a moment that it isn't a game shall we?

Let's pretend that instead of a game, it's a brand new "Kraftsman" Super-Flex wrench that you go to the retail store to buy to go home and fix your car.

On that package at the store, the package advertises the wrench as "guaranteed never to break, and made with 100% stainless steel, guaranteed forever" and so on. The price seems high, but $50 is still much more affordable then the mechanic repairing your car, so you make the purchase with high expectations based on all of the implied quality and marksmanship and all on the package.

You get home, $50 + tax less in your wallet, and find that the wrench first of all won't even fit the standard sized bolt you need it to. Afterall, the package said it fits that size standard bolts that you bought it for.

After going back to the store, and spending much of your free time having to get a store manager and an override of the register and a big hassle, you finally make it back home with the "replacement model" that is up to date and should work.

It fits the bolt now, but as you put all your strength into the wrench to bust the bolt free inside your engine, the wrench itself breaks instead and you bust your knuckles on your engine block as pain shoots through your arm and blood squirts everywhere.

Obviously the false advertisements on the package of "break resistant" was bogus, amd now you have just a broken wrench (and forearm) and are out fifty bucks.

This probably just pisses most consumers off totally and they will go back and demand a full refund immediately and might even want to take further action!

So, you say that people take video games all too seriously.

If you ask me, I don't think we take them seriously enough. We hold most other products and companies at MUCH higher standards then we do the video game industry. We'll damn sure take that wrench back, but if we spend $50 on a game that turns out to be a pile of crap with tons of false advertising, most of us just put it aside and hope we make a better choice next time, almost like each game is a "wild gamble".

Most of us take back a pair of jeans if they don't fit right or tear in the inseam when we get them home. Most of us take back a coffee pot that don't work when we get it home, or takes too long, or makes too much noise or smoke. Most of us will take radio back to the shop if it has static in the background. On and On.. but video games, for some reason these game companies are not held to the same standards.

We not only allow them to BS us with broken or empty promises and sell us a broken game, but we even promote it and tell them in polls like the polls on these very DF forums that "no matter what, I'll buy your game anyhow, even if it is a pile of crap!" Look at one of the threads where almost 25% of the people basically say they'll buy it no matter what!

Call me "Serious Sam" if you like.

Or maybe just call me an honest consumer who has had the shades pulled over my eyes one too many times.

I've been down this block a time or two before, and this time I've decided to actually look where I am stepping before trusting that red-haired sales kid that the "ice will hold me up, just go ahead and step on it". ;-)

...Just something to think about, huh?

- Zaxx

You are making ridiculous analogies on a game that is still in beta.  Also, I have one simple solution for you zaxx if you actually believe in everything you preach: Dont buy the game.  Dont buy the game.  Simple. 

But, If you do intend to buy the game because you show interest in it, THEN make your statements and reviews.

I've bashed warhammer before, but I actually BOUGHT and played the game for a few months.

I know how it feels to have shoddy service.  I know how it feels to be disappointed with a mmorpg, let alone a product I bought.  BUT, I actually tried that product.  I actually experienced the service first hand.

ALSO, I have no idea why people keep on bringing up that they feel like they are being cheated out of their money.  The game hasn't even been released yet lol.  The only people who are spending money so far is the company behind darkfall.

very well written, im very skeptical of this games future. Especially after the nuclear bomb to my opinion of the mmo genre that Age of Conan laid on me

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Originally posted by TheHavok
Also, I have one simple solution for you zaxx if you actually believe in everything you preach: Dont buy the game.  Dont buy the game.  Simple. 
But, If you do intend to buy the game because you show interest in it, THEN make your statements and reviews. 

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Well, I am obviously interested on the outcome of Darkfall, or I wouldn't be here.

Look, I don't have anything against the developers themselves that are programming Darkfall. I also love the IDEA of what Darkfall is about and what they are trying to accomplish. Do I think they will succeed. NO. I have more then serious doubts there. I hope otherwise. I actually hope that I am completely wrong about Darkfall and it proves me wrong and it IS one of the smoothest and best mmo games ever. I would LOVE to be wrong and have a great PvP/full loot mmo to play that actually requires skill and is challenging, something no mmo has done well since playing on the PVP servers of Dark Age of Camelot in my opinion.

Now, what I DO have problems with is the honesty coming from the associate producer of Aventurine in Tasos Flambouras. This guy is obviously so full of shit, and quite frankly his total lack of backbone and integrity pisses me off. While I would love for Darkfall to succeed simply to give gamers a great, hardcore PvP mmo option to play, I would HATE for a complete joke like this Tasos is to be rewarded in any way for his behavior and leadership all these years.

In the end, do I actually think Darkfall will succeed putting my hate for Tasos behind me? Absolutely NOT. I haven't seen much that would make me think otherwise. I'll admit that I was pretty enlightened about the Darkfall gameplay videos released last September or whenever it was, but after watching those videos for a few days a few times, I started getting the feeling that they were completely scripted BS and not at all an honest representation of what Darkfall actually will be after it launches.

Do I hope Darkfall succeeds? Yes. Do I hope that Tasos trips and falls in a big 1000 foot deep pit with all the rotten BS he has spewed out the past five years? Absolutely.

Will I buy Darkfall Online? Probably. More to comfirm for myself exactly what this game actually is then anything else. I certainly don't expect much, and fully expect to be wasting my money. But if I do, I will certainly be posting what I feel is a honest review of my experience on these forums as well.

Like I say, I hope I am wrong about Darkfall. For real. However, after all my years experience with mmo games since about the mid 1990s, I don't think I am wrong. I think Darkfall will fail miserably and go down in the same column as Mourning and Dark and Light went down.

- Zaxx

Well since I always look both side of the way I like this kind of thread just as much as I like positive ones. As it stand now, because of all the rucus this game is causing, I want to play it...  I hate to do it since I am from Canada and there won't be an official released here and I told myself i won't play this game until it release here, but I want to play against or with Profred on the same server now.  Kinda look fun imo.

If it release.. I am skeptic of everything.

Originally posted by zaxtor99

 

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Originally posted by Hodo
I wouldnt say its the most widely accused MMO of Vaporware in history....  I think Star Trek Online still holds that title.   Going on 10+ years in development and 3 different developers.

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LOL. What??? Star Trek Online you say?

I think many, many times the people that have ever even heard of Star Trek Online know about Darkfall Online.

But yes, STO if it has been in development for 10+ years certainly fits the definition I gave for "vaporware" in my OP.

- Zaxx

Never said that DF isnt turning into VPW.   But I think STO holds the title for it.
 

Just an fyi.. my sources say calling it an alpha state game is kind.. and unfair to real alpha state games..

Mobs only spawning in one nebie are in the entire world as a for instance as to how bad it is..

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Originally posted by BelphegorMad
Haha, such a wasted time "researching" something which has been "researched" before.
OP is clearly forgetting one simple fact, there are already thousands of players in the beta, with hundreds being added each they and it seems almost all of them are damn happy with the way game is coming so far :)

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Where is your proof of thousands in the beta and hundreds being added all the time? Are you so far up Tasos rear that you believe everything he tells you. We are on the same path that lead to another delay last month and I can guarantee it will delay this month also. But you keep your fanboism high and keep praising Tasos's and company.

Originally posted by zaxtor99

 

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Originally posted by jimsmith08
He also mentioned gamers needing a 6600GT or equivalent to run it. No doubt those with top end PCs ,eg,owners of 8600GS with 1gig ram will be getting well over 200fps.

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ROTF, wonder what I would get with my Intel E8400 Dual Core CPU, 9800XT Video Card, and 4 GB of RAM? Hell, I'll probably be able to see that 200 vs 200 battles at about 300 fps and run by myself through the forest at 1000 fps or so! - and remember, that's BEFORE they improve it with optimizations! {chuckles}

- Zaxx

If yours will do that, then my

ATI-4850 512mb

Q6600 OC'd 3.0

6gigs 800mhz

Asus P5ND sli ready

Maybe I will crash their servers lmao. Hell, my comp is probably so much overkill that my performance will actually forcefully decrease itself to meet the demand of DF. Sometimes from what tasos says, I start thinking something terrible may happen if I login to DF. Is their such thing as overly compatable? Hell I would probably get 80+ Fps just on integrated graphics with my mobo.

"One of the most controversial games in history and it's no"

LMAO yet you only read about it here.

Originally posted by khartman2005

 

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Originally posted by BelphegorMad
Haha, such a wasted time "researching" something which has been "researched" before.
OP is clearly forgetting one simple fact, there are already thousands of players in the beta, with hundreds being added each they and it seems almost all of them are damn happy with the way game is coming so far :)

---

 

Where is your proof of thousands in the beta and hundreds being added all the time? Are you so far up Tasos rear that you believe everything he tells you. We are on the same path that lead to another delay last month and I can guarantee it will delay this month also. But you keep your fanboism high and keep praising Tasos's and company.

Leakx nub

Originally posted by egotrip

Originally posted by ProfRed

Originally posted by Desmora

Originally posted by ProfRed

My question is, if a player is in beta, and really enjoys the game along with many many other beta testers then what does all this mean?  That Darkfall has had a rough time?  Aventurine has struggled, and still do?  Sure.  That doesn't mean the game isn't fun, and it doesn't warrant all of the hate or trolling. 

 

My question is, if a player is in beta, and really enjoys the game along with many other beta testers then why do you care what some troll says about the game? 

 

Well I think it's mostly because of my fondness of these forums from a while back, and I don't want a random person to come here and get turned off from the game because of a bunch of trolls.  Lately though it is starting to wear off.  You will probably see me dissapear again haha.

Sure then direct them to the official boards so that he/she can get turned off from the game by the fanboys

The sad thing is, there's a lot of truth in that.

I mean, if you look at it from the perspective of someone new to the game visiting the forums and seeing the way many fans of the game carry on, it wouldn't be anything but understandable, to me, that a number of them are turned away.

In the context of a hardcore PvP MMO, that's part of why I find it curious when people blame the "trolls" and "haters" for a game's failure. They're not the ones (presumably) playing the game. They exist, in large part, only on the forums. It's the people I'm going to be sharing my time with in game that I'm concerned about. And when you see the way some of the fans behave, honestly, it turns me off.

Some will say "well the trolls turn people away from the game". I would say, give people more credit than that. Most people, I believe, can and do think for themselves. They recognize "trolls" for what they are and don't take everything they read to heart. They might take it into consideration as part of a larger picture, formed from other information - like videos, interviews, screenshots, etc... The same kind of stuff most people go by. Speaking for myself, "haters" and "fanboys" are the absolute *last* people I look to for insight into a game. I actually place those who are skeptical, or otherwise critical fans much higher on the list.

This is why I've said a few times in the past that this game's community is beginning to look just like Shadowbane Part 2. I'm not trying to be "clever" or "facetious" in saying that. I mean it. Some people are just *way* over the line when it comes to this game. And it's not only toward "haters" aka skeptics. I've seen people who are actually positive about the game overall, but have some concerns about it get slammed by fanboys who didn't take the time to read what they were saying in context... They just saw "criticism" and immediately pummeled the poster.

It's all a bit too familiar to what I saw in the Shadowbane forums for a long time. People who follow these games seem to think that discussion forums for the game are FFA Hardcore PvP as well.

Just one example...

Not too long ago, someone posted on the Shadowbane forums... They explained that they were new to the game and really liked what they saw, but found a few aspects of it frustrating. In short, they were looking for some feedback/help/advice on some things that were troubling them. They got, in return, several responses from people pummeling them into the ground for daring to criticize the game. One person told them to go back to their hand-holding in EQ because they were obviously too stupid to play a game like SB.

I mean seriously. A new player simply looking for some help, and that's the kind of responses they get.

And I am seeing elements of that creeping into DF as well. If it's not reined in, and people don't stop lashing out so easily, it's going to have a negative effect on the game over time... and no, it's not going to be "only  carebears" having a problem with it. Many people enjoy PvP. Not many enjoy dealing with hyper-aggressive, e-tuff idiots who think it makes them cool to bash people - for no good reason at all - on the internet.

Anyway... sorry to go OT a bit, but that comment rang particularly true to me.

Originally posted by WSIMike

...

Not many enjoy dealing with hyper-aggressive, e-tuff idiots who think it makes them cool to bash people - for no good reason at all - on the internet.

This is 90% of Darkfall followers. They will enjoy fighting each other.

Originally posted by girlgeek

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

"My hope is that this collection of facts and statements with the provided sources and links to them will aid in discussions and concerns about the upcoming launch of Darkfall Online. Obviously, I simply do not have the time to go back over all the years and find every statement made by Tasos Flambouras or Aventurine that could be taken as deceitful, vague, or misleading. If you want to add to what I have given here, please feel free to add as the way I see it, the more information - the better... especially when we are talking about a game with as long a history, and as much skepticism as Darkfall certainly has."

^OP

 

Look, are you in the Beta yes or no? In fact dont even answer that, cause its a NDA violation. Lets get hypothetical though...lets assume you are in beta. If you were, you would know exactly whats in the game, which features are in it, and all the stuff these kids crying over with "vaporware" signs and pitchforks.

If you are not in beta, then you are just making way too many assumptions and getting way too worked up over it. ITS A GAME FOR FKSAKE. Wait till the NDA lifts, you can get all the first hand info you want. Wait till the game launches, then test it for yourself, or wait for the reviews. Look, this is no different than any other game out there. You might call them lies because they do not show you everything you want to see, but thats just illogical.

World of Warcraft was the same way. All Bliz gave were some concept art drawings and thats it... then once the Open Beta hit everyone knew about it. In fact, WoW still doesnt have player housing like they said, areas in the game are still not implimented, features from beta still never put back in. Oh well.

The point is, the OP is making a big scene over nothing. I personally do not think hes in beta, or else he wouldnt be using up way too much of his imagination with what will be in the game or not. Like any video game, if you are not sure, then dont buy it right away. Wait and see. Its that simple. You can say "lie this"  and "lies there", but without actual evidence or first hand knowlege, you might as well be the liar. No one is lying really. Adventurine is trying to put in as many "working" features as they can into the game, then they will launch it. Every MMORPG has done the SAME THING.

DF's approach is a bit different than the rest, but they are an indy development company. Their marketing approach can be whatever the hell they want it to be.

 

Blizzard said WoW would have player housing?  When was this?  I was in the beta and I don't recall that ever being said.

One of EQ2's "selling points" was their player housing, as I recall.  Not that this has anything to do with Darkfall, because we all know that everything that Tasos has stated will be in game, will of course, at some point  be in game.  But I'm just curious as to the statement that Blizzard said they'd have player housing, because I don't recall that.

But I have to disagree with you on "every MMORPG has done the SAME THING."  Every MMORPG has not had 8 years of promises that consistently got delayed, pushed back, or all together ignored that they even MADE a comment about "beta is ready to begin" years before....etc.....I'm not gonna get in to the history of Darkfall.....you can READ it in the OP's post, but NO....that is NOT the history of EVERY MMORPG, not even close.   Name ONE, just ONE, MMO that can compete with that long string of BS from the developer strung on through years and years with no fruit to be shown for it.  Go ahead....name one (besides Dark and Light).  More on point....name one SUCCESSFUL MMO that did that, or has that history.

 

In regards to WoW, If you notice in Stormwind for example, they have portals still blocked off. One of them was intended to lead to the player housing zone. Player housing was a topic that was mentioned quite at one point. There should also be one blocked off for destro players as well in their city.

You say DF has had 8 years of promises that constantly got delayed, pushed back..ect? and you dissagree that every mmorpg has done something similar to one extent or another? Wow. If you follow closely many of the mmorpgs out there, they make claims and they try to meet them. Who cares if it took DF 8 years. Its not your normal company behind it. Does it bother you its taking them so long? They can do whatever they want, its their game. Every game out there tells about all its projected features....doesnt mean they can fit them all in to the production cycle. Game Development is a tough business, and Adventurine is one hell of a small company, in GREECE. Its not your typical western company with a big publisher behind it. This is an indy game in a sense.

Why should the developers show you the fruits of their labor until they are ready, or until their publisher is ready? You call it BS, but is it really BS? Just because they didnt show it to you, doesnt make it BS, it just means you are impatient and quick to judge. If you want an example of a company who made big claims, and showed you them, but never delivered...well You have Funcom with Age of Conan. The game shipped with most of its big features missing. NPC armies who build cities and attack your own? hah.

the Dark Fall crew has been showing people tid bits though, there were numerous videos, some just a camera showing a dev playing the alpha, others were pictures. Dont blame me if you didnt want to accept those.

Essentially what you are saying is that DF promised you personally all these great features and that they are some how a liar because they did not show them all to you right away. That because it took this small dev team 8 years on a project started way back, that some how they are pathetic and not worth trusting. Are you in the beta? Some of us in the community are. They cant tell you whats being done due to the NDA, but you cant logically pass judgement on a title just because they are not catering to you when its still being tested.

Between you and I, I dont think it will be ready by the end of Febuary. I know they are trying to meet that date, but the dev team is too small to do that much. Again, just about every mmorpg to date has explained what they intend to be in the game, they try to meet it, sometimes they do not. The game either gets pushed back until its ready, or its released incomplete. Vanguard for example, hell even AoC. Publishers force dates, give deadlines, and essentially market the project. Remember Adventurine didnt have a publisher, this is KEY. The one they did get was for their region only.

You know all it takes is just a little accurate perspective.

Originally posted by Kyleran

At first I thought from the title it was going to be a typical troll thread.

I was quite surprised at the length of detail that OP went to research and compile this information into one place.

Now while most of this has been reported/discussed numerous times before, I doubt there's been many posts that pulled together so much regarding DF and Aventurine.

And while it is impressive, I have to agree, why did you do this? Really slow day at work?

Or are the good games taken?

He is known for this he sometimes do it as kind of fan and sometimes make a long topic how he kind of hate it and affraid for ac.

I don't think Darkfall is a controversial game. GTA, with the ability to hire a hooker, then run her over and get your money back, now that was a controversial game.

A flame war over a game between fanbois and trolls? Just another day on forums about MMORPGs. Now if you can hire a hooker in Darkfall, then shoot her with arrows till she's dead, loot her body  and take your money back, then we have some controversy.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

I don't think Darkfall is a controversial game. GTA, with the ability to hire a hooker, then run her over and get your money back, now that was a controversial game.

A flame war over a game between fanbois and trolls? Just another day on forums about MMORPGs. Now if you can hire a hooker in Darkfall, then shoot her with arrows till she's dead, loot her body  and take your money back, then we have some controversy.

Prostitution in Darkfall??

Yeah why not! It's a "free" world after all !!!

You should post it in the "Games suggestion" section of the forum though.

The only question now raised is : are the prostitutes gonna be NPC's or players??

Originally posted by Jacobeli

very well written, im very skeptical of this games future. Especially after the nuclear bomb to my opinion of the mmo genre that Age of Conan laid on me

Originally posted by Paragus1

Originally posted by Ultor83

 Why do you care so much?

 

I was wondering the same thing after reading his post history.

 Meaning what? So he's not a glowing fanbois and he posts facts you can't argue with so attack his motives?

 Sorry if I'm misunderstanding you but thats all that i got from your post.

Originally posted by winter

Originally posted by Paragus1

Originally posted by Ultor83

 Why do you care so much?

 

I was wondering the same thing after reading his post history.

 

 Meaning what? So he's not a glowing fanbois and he posts facts you can't argue with so attack his motives?

 Sorry if I'm misunderstanding you but thats all that i got from your post.

Your damn right I do.  He is one of the most prolific trollers on this board.   When someone spends as many hours a day as he does on a forum to trash a game he is not interested in and has no intention of buying, you bet your ass I will question his motives.  The man obviously has some sort of personal agenda / vendetta towards the game and it hasn't released yet.    I would recommend some therapy and a new hobby.