The game of all games.

The mmo that is supposed to be the savior to all the mmo players who have no game to call their own anymore after their old virtual worlds have been deserted in favor of more polished, slicker, and much more streamlined mmorpgs.

The mmo that is easily one of the most aggressively argued games around the internet in recent years. Fans who cling to the visions and game mechanics promised to them in the feature list on the Darkfall website. Skeptics who only grow more doubtful of what the game actually is with each passing month and year. All the onlookers who curiously check up on the game to see where it is atm who maybe haven't yet decided what to think about this overall very mysterious game, even with the many years of history that it has.

Darkfall Online. Developed by Aventurine Entertainment now and promoted by the company's associate producer, Tasos Flambouras.

Even with over SEVEN years of history, more then 600 screenshots, 9 official game videos, and approximately 280 pages of developer articles, journals, and Q&A transcripts, Darkfall Online is still one of the more mysterious mmo games ever produced with fans and skeptics alike arguing mostly about the nature of the state and history of the games development and the subsequent chances of a successful launch when it does indeed launch to the public.
(reference: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darkfall)

Darkfall has probably been accused of being "vaporware" more then any other mmorpg ever announced and produced and this simply comes from the very long development time of the game, all of the retracted beta announcement statements over the years, and different from typical approach that the company has taken with their own community and the complete lack of advertising.
(reference: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darkfall)

Forum users continually argue about the exact length of time that Darkfall has been officially in development as skeptics typically try and point out how long they have been hearing about this game and it's "save the PvP/full loot mmo community" nature of promised game play mechanics.  To answer this question, we again can simply go to the respectable Wikipedia website which gives us facts.  On August 29, 2001, Razorwax officially announced Darkfall Online on its website, and Razorwax initially consisted of five members (none of whom was the heralded Tasos Flambouras).  While this date was the official announcement of the game, it can be certainly be argued that the game was being developed and/or planned out as early as 1999.  In October of 2002, the Razorwax team was integrated into Adventurine SA, a newly formed company based in Athens, Greece.  From there, they CONTINUED the development of Darkfall Online and Razorwax officially  moved from Norway to join the newly merged Aventurine company in Athens Greece in December of 2002. 
(reference: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darkfall)

From the facts, regardless of how many times the whole game engine or development might have been scraped to start over - It is obvious that the mmo game of Darkfall online has been in development since atleast the official announcement date by Razorwax back in August of 2001.  That gives us a minimum of 7.5 years now, and it certainly could be argued that it might have been in developement even before that announcement in 2001 on the official Razorwax website as most commercial games are not announced on an official website the very first day they are planned out or developed.  Personally I would say that eight years is a pretty safe estimate of development time.  Some people have stated that the actual time is ten years or longer and I lean away from that figure as that would simply be taking too much into assumption I would think.

So for roughly 8 years this game has been being developed.  That figure alone can certainly put the Darkfall game in a very safe spot of being called "vaporware".  By the very definition of vaporware, one would be correct in stating that Darkfall is an example of vaporware.  The confusion comes in the idea that many have as to the definition of the term vaporware.  Many think that labeling a game vaporware means simply that it does not actually exist or that it will never officially launch. However if we go back to our trusted Wikipedia website again, we can actually get a definition for the term "vaporware"

Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product. The term implies unwarranted optimism, an as yet unannounced abandonment of a project, or sometimes even deception; that is, it may imply that the announcer knows that product development is in too early a stage to support responsible statements about its completion date, feature set, or even feasibility. However, most vaporware would not be considered a hoax since the makers have a genuine intention to create their product, even if it ultimately never materializes. Products with unspecified release dates or long development times that outwardly demonstrate regular, verifiable progress in production are not normally labeled vaporware.
 (reference: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware)

I, myself am very skeptical of this whole Darkfall Online game and always have been even when I first heard about it sometime back in 2002.  I checked in on it from time to time and have only in the last year or two become more heavily interested in its existence.  This is due to the sheer nature of the game, the length of time at which this game has been around, and the dramatically increased hype and demand for this game by the public.

I have seen many times, fans (or shall I say people excited about the launch of this game) not accepting skeptical players doubtful statements about the history of this game.  They want links to untruths or to misleading statements in the history of this games development.  However, when and if such links are provided, these same people who demanded to be given such information usually seem to just blow it off without actually reading it and state something in the manner of "well that's old info, what I am interested in is what have they done recently and what is gonna happen in the near future". 

Nobody officially knows what will come of Darkfall Online.  Nobody knows how long the game will survive after it launches or even when it might actually launch for that matter.  Nobody knows in what state the game will be in when if does in fact launch to the public.  So what we DO know is the history of the games development.  We know of many previous statements given to us about the beta and or release time frame of the game and when those dates or times didn't actually materialize a beta or launch of the game.  From that, we can either choose to proceed with caution about whatever Tasos Flambouras tells us or we can choose to mainly disregard all of Tasos Flambouras's and this games history and jump in blissfully expecting all to be as he has told us and to see a great product when it finally releases.

I would caution the blissful expectations of this game and jumping in blind however.  If this game were a swimming pool and those of you who anticipate good things jump in blind without taking this games history into serious consideration.. you just might be jumping into a big swimming pool with absolutely no water and a concrete floor.
To back up my caution, I have provided those of you who care about what we do actually know about this game, some links and information given to us by Mr Tasos Flambouras, associate produced for Aventurine SA.

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Quotes from Tasos Flambouras about Darkfall Online:

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Sept 30, 2003:  Tasos: "What you can look forward to in the immediate future as we move forward with our closed beta, is the beta registration process for individual players and for guilds to open up..."
(reference: forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php)

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April 6, 2004:  Tasos: "Darkfall is currently in the final stages of internal beta testing. This means that the game is being tested in-house in preparation for public playtesting. A beta registration form will become available on this website soon."
(reference: forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php)

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July 9, 2004:  Tasos Flambouras:
I know that I said “a brief development report” but it has been a while, so it came out a bit longer than expected. There will be more soon-ish.
Darkfall is still in internal beta. Delays and development taking longer than anticipated is the norm in the gaming industry as we all know, even in companies and projects with virtually unlimited resources. In our case the time related problems were tied more with the development of the advanced technology and the tools behind the game and not so much with the game itself. While delays are the norm, we're not at all casual about them. They drive us crazy too, and we're doing everything in our power to minimize them. There actually is a bright side to this: the development process isn't linear, so the extra time helps us make a better game.
Darkfall is a well funded, fully staffed and supported project. Production has been stepped up since the last development report and right now we're going stronger than ever. Any speculation to the contrary is completely false. Not only are we fully committed to producing and supporting Darkfall, but we're fully committed to doing it without cutting any corners.
We understand and we even share the community's impatience to a certain degree. We understand that you want to know specifics about the beta testing and the game launch. All we can say responsibly is that we can see light at the end of the tunnel and we'll let you know as soon as we know for sure. The fact that our planning has been off before makes us more cautious about getting into specifics. The beta forms have been ready for months and our tester evaluation is an ongoing process.
(reference: forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php)

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Nov 11, 2005:  Tasos: "We're preparing for beta testing as we speak; you can apply on this page of our website. It's a huge job, and we want it done right."
(reference: rpgvault.ign.com/articles/671/671666p1.html)

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Nov 28, 2005: Tasos: "It's getting close to the point where people will get the chance to playtest the game. If they aren't looking at Darkfall now, they'll probably wish they had been. :)"
(reference: rpgvault.ign.com/articles/671/671666p3.html)

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Oct 11, 2006:  Tasos: "As you may have guessed, there are no offsite updates this week and this isn't due to lack of topics or desire, but purely because of increased workload.  We're in the middle of an effort of maintaining beta preparations while continuing to develop the game. In regards to that, I understand that the main information you need is a date, and we're getting closer to locking a schedule in.
Clan beta registrations will resume next week. We have been sporadically reviewing new apps but have fallen behind on the demand. We ask for a little patience on this since we're shorthanded on the task."
(reference: forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php)

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Jan 18, 2008: Tasos: " Previous estimates on beta were honest educated estimates.... The only thing certain is that we expect everything to come together one way or another within a few months so that our launch can be within the year."
(reference: www.warcry.com/articles/view/devjournals/darkfalljournals/2813-Darkfall-Dev-Journal-22-Community-Q-A.2)

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Apr 11, 2008:  Tasos: "Darkfall is feature complete and we're doing beta testing using professional testers as we've said before."

Apr 11, 2008:  Tasos: "So why don't we announce a date already? It's because there's no way we'll miss a release date and we're not going to just set a date as a goal, and either postpone or be forced to release something unfinished. "

Apr 11, 2008: Tasos: "We welcome the "too good to be true" or the "Darkfall promises everything" ranting about Darkfall because we're in a position to know that we'll offer more than we promise. 
(reference for all 3 statements above: www.warcry.com/articles/view/devjournals/darkfalljournals/3570-Darkfall-Dev-Journal-25-Philosophy)

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 Dec 4, 2008: Tasos: "Darkfall could launch today. It's more ready for launch than most, if not all of the MMORPG titles at the same stage that I've personally sampled and it has been for quite some time. Everything has been tested internally"
(reference: www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/4/feature/2494/from/%2Ffeatures.cfm%2Fview%2Flatest/Interview-with-Tasos-Flambouras.html)

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On 05 December 2008, Tasos Flambouras announced that Darkfall would be released for the European market on 22 January 2009 . The American release is said to proceed shortly after.[19] Players from other parts of the world may participate in the European launch event since tests have shown the game will be playable from outside Europe.[citation needed]. However, Tasos Flambouras announced on 16 January 2009 that the European release date had been delayed to 25 February 2009.
(Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darkfall)

------------------------------------------------

Some more interesting statements made by Tasos Flambouras:

CONCERNING:

BUDGET FOR DARKFALL (As of Sept of 2008): Approx. "10 million Euros" (Approx 13 million USD)

DARKFALLS GRAPHICS ENGINE: Made from scratch, no official name except a name used as an "inside joke" by Aventurine.  Can detect collision detection and allow the user to use a 1st or 3rd person perspective based on what the use prefers.

SIZE OF THE WORLD IN DARKFALL: "You'll need many hours to travel from one end to the other."

ESTIMATED SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS: "We’ve recently simulated large battles and it seems that a single-core processor will be sufficient. 200 vs 200 battles produce between 30 to 60 FPS. When running alone in the wilderness, FPS can shoot to as high as 170-200. This will be further improved once optimizations has been done. Our main concern is to be able to run large battles smoothly."

HOW MANY CAN EACH SERVER HOLD? "10.000 concurrent users. The farms will be set abroad, with the potential of expanding if player numbers rise."
PC VERSION IS OBVIOUS, BUT ANY OTHER PLATFORMS PLANNED? "If all goes well, we plan on creating an Xbox 360 version in the future."

(Source: darkfall-online.dk/archives/29)

-----------

My hope is that this collection of facts and statements with the provided sources and links to them will aid in discussions and concerns about the upcoming launch of Darkfall Online.  Obviously, I simply do not have the time to go back over all the years and find every statement made by Tasos Flambouras or Aventurine that could be taken as deceitful, vague, or misleading.  If you want to add to what I have given here, please feel free to add as the way I see it, the more information - the better... especially when we are talking about a game with as long a history, and as much skepticism as Darkfall certainly has.

 
-  Zaxx
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Man you put a lot effort in this. With all your other postsconcering DFO one could think that you are on a mission.

Well , you do it in a more intelligent way so good luck with that.

The only thing I dislike atm is the lack of information on the features that are in the final version. Would be glad to know that to finally decide if I preorder or not.

that's some impressive sleuthing, kudos to your efforts.

 Why do you care so much?

Originally posted by Ultor83

 Why do you care so much?

I was wondering the same thing after reading his post history.

Anyone that reads that and knows the history of this game, and yet STILL talks about whether they should pre-order or not is delusional and living in fantasy land.

If they scrape anything out of the doors it will utter garbage and completely untested and incomplete to think otherwise means you have no common sense or any knowledge about software and MMO testing requirements.

xbox 360 version

 Dec 4, 2008: Tasos: "Darkfall could launch today. It's more ready for launch than most, if not all of the MMORPG titles at the same stage that I've personally sampled and it has been for quite some time. Everything has been tested internally"
(reference: www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/4/feature/2494/from/%2Ffeatures.cfm%2Fview%2Flatest/Interview-with-Tasos-Flambouras.html)

 

The quote in red is what worries me. There is no way everything has been tested internally. Does AV have over 400 testers working on those large PVP battles? I doubt it.

And even if each and every individual thing has been tested, do they have enough internal testers to test everything at once. As was discussed in another thread, its fine to test every little thing, but until you have the typical players in there that will diagnose every bug, every little detail, do massive spreadsheet calculations on each skill, you have no idea how it will all work together.

MMO's are living, breathing organisms (okay not really but you get what I mean). The devleop and change over time and until you have people in them, in large numbers, doing anything and everything they can to manipulate game mechanics, try new things, develop new tactics and strategies, you will never know exactly what your game can and cannot do.

Think about it - internal testers are paid employees. Sure, their goal is to find bugs and test stuff...but they think like employees; I doubt they think like someone who considers Darkfall their life. I doubt they will spend every waking moment doing whatever they can to find every wierd combination (okay put this skill, with that weapon, at the angle and I am invincible) that results in some unknown bug. On top of that, I doubt they play the game...they test it. There is a huge difference in playing and testing.

It is these types of comments that worry me the most.

Originally posted by Paragus1

Originally posted by Ultor83

 Why do you care so much?

 

I was wondering the same thing after reading his post history.

Based on your post history. why do you care if he cares?

At first I thought from the title it was going to be a typical troll thread.

I was quite surprised at the length of detail that OP went to research and compile this information into one place.

Now while most of this has been reported/discussed numerous times before, I doubt there's been many posts that pulled together so much regarding DF and Aventurine.

And while it is impressive, I have to agree, why did you do this? Really slow day at work?

Or are the good games taken?

Originally posted by Vortigon

Anyone that reads that and knows the history of this game, and yet STILL talks about whether they should pre-order or not is delusional and living in fantasy land.

If they scrape anything out of the doors it will utter garbage and completely untested and incomplete to think otherwise means you have no common sense or any knowledge about software and MMO testing requirements.

Its still worth the gamble as far as I'm concerned for the potential of a good game where there's very little even in the single player market these days. 

Your last paragraph is speculation at best just as much if I said it was gonna be the greatest game ever. Yes there marketing/testing has been interesting to watch, anything but conventional to say the least but then I look at your AoC/War's and think well they followed the conventional routes to churn out games that were akin to a Halo 3 like sequel to WoW.

I can easily afford the missed cash since I hardly spend any money on games these days to gamble on DF. 

What I will say its lovely to see all these crusaders out and about preaching to us uniformed like they only want to protect us from the big harsh world. Thank you guys it brings a tear to my eye.

There are those on the DF forums who should do 1/10th of the research the OP has done.

Originally posted by Ultor83

 Why do you care so much?

I can't speak for the OP but I suspect Darkfall attracts this kind of attention partly because of the attitude displayed by the developers combined with the blind acceptance of many of the game's followers.

As long as the MMORPG community accepts this kind of behavior from developers (and even *defend* this behaviror as though it is somehow praiseworthy) then there will be developers who think they can get away with it.  

We as a community can raise our standards and expect better.   And that is something that would help the entire MMORPG genre.    That will never happen as long as there are those willing to listen (or worse, actually give such developers money),

Originally posted by miagisan

Originally posted by Paragus1

Originally posted by Ultor83

 Why do you care so much?

 

I was wondering the same thing after reading his post history.

 

Based on your post history. why do you care if he cares?

Probably because mine looks like someone who you would expect to find in a forum for a game they are interested in, while his shows a trend of trying to crusade against the game.

Imagine this: You are a fledgling indie developer with a dream of making an awesome MMO.  I bet it's easy to get caught up in all the media garbage, and everything else that making an MMO involves. You've got so many more things to be worrid about than traditional games, or so it would seem. It never ceases to amaze me how so many people get riled up over a video game. If you want to play it, play it, if you don't, then don't.  For some of you, this is unfortunately what your life encompasses. The next big game. And even then, if you are doing something productive in the realm of gaming is another story. Posting your long drawn out opinion containing facts on why you either hate Darkfall or Tasos or whatever is just, like, sad. Go find something productive to do, dude. Get a hobby, maybe increase some RLSKLLZLOL. After all, you are playing in a completely open ended MMO where you can do anything you want. Take a look outside and check out the graphics. Pretty nice.

just thoughts, just thoughts

Originally posted by Paragus1

Originally posted by miagisan

Originally posted by Paragus1

Originally posted by Ultor83

 Why do you care so much?

 

I was wondering the same thing after reading his post history.

 

Based on your post history. why do you care if he cares?

 

Probably because mine looks like someone who you would expect to find in a forum for a game they are interested in, while his shows a trend of trying to crusade against the game.

public forums are for pro's and con's of every game. He has brought more information forward than almost any fan here. His post is clear, concise, and contains factual information. You could make one too. Anyone can. In fact, his post is prolly one of the most relevant posts on this forum

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Originally posted by Kyleran And while it is impressive, I have to agree, why did you do this? Really slow day at work?

---

Hmm, maybe I secretly work for EA or Blizzard and I'm scared shitless that Darkfall Online will be the "bestest game eva made" and take away millions of my current customers!
 
Actually I am home today, my lil' boy is with his mommy... so I am bored and it's frigid cold outside. 
Also, if I can help even one person not give their pre-order money to the company behind this game who I honestly feel is corrupt, deceitful, and misleading as hell - then I am happy with my efforts. 
 - While it may look like I took much longer then I actually did to write my OP (original post) here, it actually only took me a little more then an hours time.  There is TONS of information and useful sources out there to back up my suspicions and feelings about this game not being all that it promises and Tasos being misleading and deceptive.
 
-  Zaxx

Originally posted by miagisan

public forums are for pro's and con's of every game. He has brought more information forward than almost any fan here. His post is clear, concise, and contains factual information. You could make one too. Anyone can. In fact, his post is prolly one of the most relevant posts on this forum

Originally posted by Alienovrlord

There are those on the DF forums who should do 1/10th of the research the OP has done.

Yes, because it's so hard to go to wikipedia and copy/paste!

Originally posted by miagisan

public forums are for pro's and con's of every game. He has brought more information forward than almost any fan here. His post is clear, concise, and contains factual information. You could make one too. Anyone can. In fact, his post is prolly one of the most relevant posts on this forum

Sure they are a place for pros and cons, but clearly he has spent over a month trying to crusade against the game, with 3 out of his last 5 being locked.  There is nothing in his copy / paste from wiki that hasn't been posted over and over again by the trolls here.  Just a habit of mine that whenever I see posts like these I like to consider the source.  

Surely there must be some other game he would rather be playing?  At what point do you draw the line and expect to see these posts stop being reposted over and over again?   Is he going to keep doing this after release?   1 month after release?  3 months?

Originally posted by zaxtor99

 

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Originally posted by Kyleran And while it is impressive, I have to agree, why did you do this? Really slow day at work?

---

 

  There is TONS of information and useful sources out there to back up my suspicions and feelings about this game not being all that it promises and Tasos being misleading and deceptive.
 
-  Zaxx

Right...but you fail to see that this "tons of information and useful sources" also points this game being the exact shift in direction that the genre needs, and could very well spark a new wave of MMO's. It's too bad you're just out to be negative about the whole thing. You can validate your opinion anyway you want, and you can post valid arguments for anything in the world, but its only an argument, and poses no real value, just like my post right here.