I can see a lot of people would not like a race specific game,i personally LOVE it.It gives the races and game IDENTITY,it is like  you are in a real world ,even if it is fantasy.If the OP got his way,the game WOULD have the potential for EVERY player to be EXACTLY the same,that would be rubbish.I know it would not play out that way,but why even design a game with that major flaw?Races are MEANT to be races,if you do not give them their own identity,you in reality have NO race.DEFINING each individual race also shows EFFORT  by the designer,any second rate developer can  make one setting the same for everyone,and personally i am disappointed by developers who take that cheap ass approach.

This is the exact same reason a skill based system does not work either,because it allows everyone to be the same,i mean if people cannot see why allowing everyone to be the same is bad for the game and just outright boring,then i can't help them,or explain it any further.No just because your player may look a little different from the opening screen character customization[umm what customization?]it does not make your player different if it's whole design is the same for all.

Like i said the game does not end at the character customization screen,that should not be where your RACE identity ends,there is a  whole game there waiting to be played,full of ideas and content based on your Race.

Now there is a way to kind of keep everyone happy,that would be the way EQ2 does it,VG sort of as well.You sort of have to learn the other races language,then earn a trust to advance in quests and such that could lead to other things like new recipes or crafts ect ect.There is a lot of content that could be related to RACE alone,it is up to the game developer to put out the effort.

Originally posted by Stellos

Originally posted by Respit

Originally posted by Paragus1

Originally posted by Kyleran

Perhaps the information is outdated, just as the line about prestige classes which I believe were dropped as well.

 

This is probably the case.  There are several things on that website that are no longer a part of the game's design.   Hopefully if / when they roll out a new website, a lot of the fat on the old one will be gone.   There are leaks regarding the base stats of the various races that imply some might be slightly better at some skills than others, but those stats are supposedly raisable.

Lol, just another example of how most of the "mis-information" gets started.

For his own sake, I hope the OP didn't post this on the DF Forums.

 

I did not post on DF forums.  I realize the information may be incorrect, but what information about DF is 100% credible at this point, huh?  Exactly.  We have a fairly good reason to believe that this will be the case on release, but yes, there is the possibility that they are a long way from making race specific classes now.  All we can do is discusses the information that is available.

That's exactly what I meant. That not even the information from the official games site can be trusted.

And if someone comes along and reads something, and posts a concern/question on the official forums, the typical response will be to to learn to Google, or learn to use the search, or some other bs.

Once again, having a specific race that cant be a awesome caster or is the only natural choice for a smith is a limitation.

In a sandbox limitations blow.

What if I don't want to roll a dwarf? but still want to be a smith?

Since I can't roll an alt i'm limited. I cant make my character exactly the way I want.

poor dwarfs cant get the cool awesome pwnage spellslike the humans no matter how hard that little dwarf studys the school of magic just because of a dev imposed race restriction.

Damn racists lol.

C´mon...who didnt know a Dwarf was the best crafter? Or that a Orc is strong er then a human?

If these things com as a surprise, you have never experienced classic fantasy before.

And for *¤#" sake, this is not a class/level based MMO. So you can be a a amazing human crafter. There is absolutely nothing that forbids it. And you are fre to choose any race you want.

are u stupid? It never said once that you couldn't be a human smith and meelee....so learn to comprehend text?

It's fantasy. Obviously, the stereotype (not necessarily bad) in fantasy says dwarves are master crafters and beasts at melee, but their magic normally blows something hard. (This info is gathered based on things read and seen, then analyzed to fit my own crazy ideas). If every single class could do the same thing exactly the same, 1) uniqueness would be thrown out the window, and 2) incentive for wanting to play one class over any other. It adds a level of realism not seen in many other games. If they follow race specific professions like all the other crap out there, it would further impair the freedom and sandboxiness of the game. I feel it is a better idea, as it makes you consider what race you want to play, based on strengths and weaknesses in a wide range of skills. Also, if fantasy was real (huh?) then perhaps there would be an excellent dwarf caster who also sucked anvils at smithing. But, as a game is scripted, no matter how free they make it, things are always set in presets to a degree. So every dwarf, elf, or human will start with the same stats, even though in real life, one elf might be stronger than another. Its scripted, so it will always be limited.

By the by, I'm not a fanboi or watnot. Not even looking at the game, as I play only f2p. Highschool, .

Seriously, what the hell would be the point of having different races if they were all exactly the same? Of course races are going to be more adept at some things and not so much at others. That's so fundamental that I just take it for granted and I'm amazed that it's even a topic for discussion. I sincerely hope that races in Darkfall have major distinction or I will be severely turned off and disappointed.

Dorf does NOT equal fat pygmie with a beard. It's a completely different species. Let's all hope Aventurine realizes this and that it's featured in the game. Amen.

PS. Oh and for those that can't seem to fathom it, Sandbox does NOT mean you can do ANYTHING. You just CANT ride your tricycle in the sandbox, you will become bogged down instantly! Translated to a fantasy MMO, that means you still have to follow the general rules of the setting. You can't have a gauss cannon, you can't build starbases and orcs are stronger than humans.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Perhaps the information is outdated, just as the line about prestige classes which I believe were dropped as well.

 

nope, not outdated....has been confirmed by beta testers( at least on leak sites, take with a grain of salt) and makes sense. Why should every race have equal stats? What would be the point? It would make absolutely no sense if a human could make a dwarf racial weapon or vice-versa. I like the way its set up, but that of course is my opinion.

Are you people serious?  We aren't talking about about "being better" it's "not being able to get all the skills/spells"

Nobody cares about a dwarf swinging and doing say 5% more damage, or doing 5% less spell damage, that's not a big deal, and can be overcome.  The problem is getting more skills and spells which are way more important then just small %.

In WoW if you couldn't learn some of your class defining spells because you were the wrong race, it'd be unfair.  And guess what, it was.

Look at priests, they used to have race abilities and it made some priests far better so that if you weren't the right race you weren't wanted.  Undead were the best horde priests up till the change, there was NO REASON AT ALL for troll or blood elf.  And on human side, night elves and humans were always wishy washy with dwarves being the dominant priest due to fear ward. Draenai came in pretty strongly though.

These were big things that got removed because it was a horrible decision.

But go ahead, say not getting the top spells and melee abilities or crafting recipes based on your race is fine.  I mean, we all want to be blacksmiths and not be able to craft the best things.

I agree with the last poster, one thing is to give some bonuses to the various races so they are different (so the orc is stronger, the elf is smarter and the dwarf is tougher) but here we are talking about limiting SKILL development, so somehow impliyng that the best human smith, for some odd reason, just cannot learn certain parts of that skill, even if he has gazillions skill points and is considered a super master smith.

Give dwarves a 5% better chance at a critical success in blacksmithing if you want, but limiting skills based on race may be "realistic", but it also seems a bad idea to me.

I love that different races are better or worse at certain things.

To me it makes no sense at all not to have it this way.

If every race is exactly the same, and can do exactly the same things at the exact same level then why have different races at all. At that point they just become a different skin.

Sounds to me like just more of the "All or nothing" sandbox crowd gripping. Sandbox doesnt mean all or nothing, it means you are free to do what you want when you want. There is no assurance that you will be any good at it.

Originally posted by Bladin

Are you people serious?  We aren't talking about about "being better" it's "not being able to get all the skills/spells"

Nobody cares about a dwarf swinging and doing say 5% more damage, or doing 5% less spell damage, that's not a big deal, and can be overcome.  The problem is getting more skills and spells which are way more important then just small %.

In WoW if you couldn't learn some of your class defining spells because you were the wrong race, it'd be unfair.  And guess what, it was.

Look at priests, they used to have race abilities and it made some priests far better so that if you weren't the right race you weren't wanted.  Undead were the best horde priests up till the change, there was NO REASON AT ALL for troll or blood elf.  And on human side, night elves and humans were always wishy washy with dwarves being the dominant priest due to fear ward. Draenai came in pretty strongly though.

These were big things that got removed because it was a horrible decision.

But go ahead, say not getting the top spells and melee abilities or crafting recipes based on your race is fine.  I mean, we all want to be blacksmiths and not be able to craft the best things.

I have to disagree with you. WOW's paritiy changes between races were just one of the many steps backwards in my opinion.

Players should have to make tough choices in building their characters, and should never be able to be equal to everyone, all the time.  If I wanted that, I'd play FPS games.

Originally posted by Bladin

Are you people serious?  We aren't talking about about "being better" it's "not being able to get all the skills/spells"

Nobody cares about a dwarf swinging and doing say 5% more damage, or doing 5% less spell damage, that's not a big deal, and can be overcome.  The problem is getting more skills and spells which are way more important then just small %.

In WoW if you couldn't learn some of your class defining spells because you were the wrong race, it'd be unfair.  And guess what, it was.

Look at priests, they used to have race abilities and it made some priests far better so that if you weren't the right race you weren't wanted.  Undead were the best horde priests up till the change, there was NO REASON AT ALL for troll or blood elf.  And on human side, night elves and humans were always wishy washy with dwarves being the dominant priest due to fear ward. Draenai came in pretty strongly though.

These were big things that got removed because it was a horrible decision.

But go ahead, say not getting the top spells and melee abilities or crafting recipes based on your race is fine.  I mean, we all want to be blacksmiths and not be able to craft the best things.

For the love of god, when did MMO players completely lose the ability to make that (semi) hard decision.
 

If you want to make the very best armor in game then play a ugly ass Dwarf, if you have no desire to play an ugly ass Dwarf then you give up the ability to make the very best armor in game.
Back in the old days we call these things Lore. You see, in pretty much any standard fantasy (which Darkfall falls under) Dwarves were the best smiths. Nothing new here. In this same fantasy Dwarves were never all that good at casting spells, which is why you rarely see Dwarven Mages in fantasy settings.
So if you play a Elf you goes for the casting side of things but you still like to make armor you will be able to make really good armor and cast exceptionally good fireballs where your Dwarf friend who choses the same route will be able to make exceptionally good armor but only be able to cast good fireballs. You see, this is balance.

Again, if every race is the same then just make one damn race.

This is just a very little bit of give and take, sorry if that goes against your all or nothing gamestyle.

I played a Halfling Warrior in EQ for quite some time. I didnt do it because he hit the hardest or had the best AC, i did it because he was fun to play. He also leveled the fastest and had the best agility/dex so he could hit faster. So it got closer in the long run but he was still not as good as an Ogre Warrior. But then i didnt want to play a giant sized ugly ass Ogre, so i didnt expect to be the very best Warrior.

First off to the first person who quoted me.  It was a step forward for priests, I'd say try playing one, but frankly that wouldn't help the situation now, try playing one in vanilla, where guilds were recreuiting dwarf priests and ignoring other priests if they had the opportunity.  There still is race defining featrures but they are just for the race, they aren't impacting the class.  You aren't hindered in your priest spells now.  And that's nice.

But different races simply can't be different classes. 

To the next poster.

Shut up about lore.  Seriously, you fail.  does lore state that there has never been a master human blacksmith?  OR does lore state that theres never been a human who can use a weapon to it's full extent? 

The thing is, theres no reason why a player should be excluded from learning spells recipes and skills, being better at it is different.  Right now I can go back the same cuisine you see from pro chefs but will it turn out as well as them?  No it wouldn't.  Not even close.  But i could still make what they make.

That's the issue here. Theres no reason why a dwarf can't cast any spell he wants if he practices enough.  He just shouldn't be as good at it . IF you even agree with that logic

I'm not sure if your just a fanboy or a troll, or what, but you are argueing against people being the same, yet making it so people roll different races to be the same role as everyone else.  If you want to be a caster be a elf, if you want to be a blacksmith be a dwarf, if you want to be a fighter be a orc.

Why not just give each race a set class and calll it a day.

And to be honest, nobody really cares if you chose a bad race combo just for shits and giggles in eq.   Sure you had fun, and you weren't the best warrior.  Tell me, why would i want to play with you, your not the only warrior on the server, and i don't need you for a friend, and i have no desire to be your friend.

Why would i roll a human if i wanted to be a blacksmith?  I wouldn't is that fair, that the entire metalshaping proffession is just dwarves.  Why even bother being it on another race?  You can't make the best stuff, therefore it's pointless to be it.  Since eventually you'll cap and have no reason to even have the skill anymore because you have to buy the best stuff anyway.

it also limits choices for fighting styles.  If i wanted to fight in melee I should roll a melee race and just go with it.

"play what you have fun with"  Is fine when you play a game where you are just going with the flow and not trying to achieve or do anything. 

I'm all for race bonus when they don't affect the overall balance of things but still give incentives.

+% damage? sure

+% skill gain? suppose so

Where do we draw the line? If you want to tailor be a elf, if you want to be a leatherworker be a human, if you want to be a butcher be a orc. 

Let me ask you this, are you saying that a human being can never become a better blacksmith than a dwarf?  That's kinda silly.  Theres no reason why a human couldn't.  "because dwaves are raised as blacksmiths" .... no

1. Dwarves can not be all blacksmiths, sorry.  Theres no such thing in any form of dwarf lore, where every single dwarf had his own forge and was a blacksmith.  If a dwarf never forged anything before in his life(wwhich is quite probable) then theres no reason why he should be able to advance further then a human that has worked his entire life as a blacksmith.

Who are you to say that?  Did the deelopers say "every player who makes a dwarf and takes blacksmithing was raised as a blacksmith"  Or "every human who takes up blacksmithing never did it before"  

Now not only are the developers capping our skills, but they are also deciding what type of history our individual characte had?  What if i was a exiled dwarf who sturdied under a grand mage and he taught me all his spells?  "sorry your a dwarf you can't learn these spells" 

Why not? For a sandbox you people sure are willing to bend over and take it when it comes to freedom restrictions

Haahaa well spoken

seems the sanbox lovers suddenly have changed thier deffinition of sandbox. i have read so many arguments about why sandbox is great. " we can be anything we want and as good at anything if we put the effort in" now all of a sudden they dont want that?

I see what the poster means. i Have read every single Salvatore/Draizzt book and to me thats what sanbox should mean. maybe dwarfs should have a bonus to learn crafting and elves have a bonus to learn magic, but for the elven players that want to learn to master smithing, they can with hard work and determination. and i dont mean just throw time into it. In EQ i made a trueshot bow at fletching skill of 74, yes i failed 27 times before finally making one, and yes it took me weeks to collect all the materials, and yes i was about to give up..again. but when i made it it felt great ( and this was before even kunark btw ) that to me is how it should be!

Sandbox = no restrictions

If everyone could have max everything then it would be 3d runescape =p

edit:

I doubt it will be like a "cap", it will probaly be like "Dwarves have a +5% chance to gain double xp when making an item" or "Dwarves can blacksmith 20% faster". I could be wrong though, just guessing

If they make it difficult enough then most average players wont be bothered about maxing everything.

But why shouldnt players that want to be able to? someone else said being race specific reminds him more of RL? how? as a human male i can try to be anything i want to in RL!

want to be a nurse? then train. racing driver? then train! astronaut? then train!.

nothing seems to restrict me other than me. why should Roleplaying in a game be any different?

Originally posted by shukes33

If they make it difficult enough then most average players wont be bothered about maxing everything.

But why shouldnt players that want to be able to? someone else said being race specific reminds him more of RL? how? as a human male i can try to be anything i want to in RL!

want to be a nurse? then train. racing driver? then train! astronaut? then train!.

nothing seems to restrict me other than me. why should Roleplaying in a game be any different?

Sad to say that RL isnt like that at all.. You play the cards your dealt. Some are better then others.

About the race thing, i'm all for it. The difference will be minor anyway.

I agree some get better opertunities than others friend, i'm with you there. but thats not to say that i can't strive for these things. look around you and see how many have scraped themselves up from the bottom to do things they never thought possible.

I have to admire these people for it. every single person in the world to me starts of with respect. some lose it others gain it. the ones that gain it just show me that in RL you are your own worst enemie but also your best friend. never let anything hold you down!

I'm not actually aginst race restrictions btw i just can see what the OP is saying.