Alrighty, the game I vote for in terms of other games having to  live up is Star Wars Galaxies, PreCu. I completely understand other posters saying the game had problems and was bleeding subs prior to the NGE. I believe some of that bleed was due to a lack of content although they added some late in the Rage of the Wookies and other paid expansions. Some of it could have been due to WoW, which was growing while SWG was shrinking. I didn't play the other old sandbox games, such as Ultima Online, so I can't vote for those, but they sounded pretty darn good. But Star Wars, for me, had immersion, great player cities, wonderful player economies, as well as significant death penalties (if you were stupid enough not to clone and insure). Just about everyone role played to some extent. And having an mmo where you could fly a spaceship AND do ground missions was pretty terrific. Too bad they treated those two aspects as almost separate games rather than integrating them more. Post NGE, the game was unplayable, for me.

As for spoiling the genre. Yup, have to go with WoW, because it lacks immersion and the tools needed to form online communities. Again, I can't argue with other posters who say that the level system started with Everquest, not WoW. I believe that is true, but the success with WoW paved the huge exodus to casual-style mmos where gear matters more than skill and where a crafter still has to kill X wolves and retrieve Y widgets in order to level up and  get the right to craft high level.

Good question. I hope sandbox games do revive, I would play them if they do. But, I think casual themeparks are here to stay. While easy, they are entertaining.

Currently playing LoTRO, another casual mmo, waiting for a serious game to come along.

It was definitely a combination of games... but mostly...

WoW.  WoW raised the bar for MMO's.  Before WoW we expected glitchy imperfect game worlds... we expected and excepted grinding the same mobs for hours upon hours to gain levels...

After WoW the quality of everything else just seems sub-par.  Nothing else "feels" right.  I've tried just about everything out there in the last few years.. and I'm back to wow for the fifth or sixth time... and enjoying it.

I also really miss free standing player housing... I love the idea of player built and owned ships...  and I think the best loot should be player crafted instead of dropped, rare drops should be components for crafting.  I think SWG was the only game to do crafting right.  Vanguard did it ok... but glitchy. 

What we need is a game like Vanguard was SUPPOSED to be, but with quality on par with WoW.... but I hate to think what that would cost to develop.

Runescape post-wildy "update"

The Runescape before the wild was taken out was the shiz. Now its just a grindfest game for 11 year olds

Originally posted by KOrnfan4evr

Call of duty 2, diablo 2 Warcraft IIII are not MMO's.  They are actually limited to the amount of players that can be on one server at a time not to mention theres not as many updates from the companies as there are by the players.  WW2 online would be closest to call of duty, for diablo 2 would be closer to say DarkEden.  And warcraft 3 theres a game out there (cant remember the name) that was a cross between RTS and MMO.

MMOFPS includes games like Soldier Front, CrossFire, Combat Arms etc and though they also have limited amount of players, they are considered as MMOFPS. The only difference I find between those and CoD2 is that in CoD2 you don't gain "XP" for killing/winning. If that's the case than I'll replace CoD2 with CoD4.

As for Diablo 2 and Warcraft III, some people call them MMOs and some don't for the same reason you stated: "They are actually limited to the amount of players that can be on one server at a time". The other party (same as my opinion)would say that: 'As long as it is online and involve players around the world without the use of LAN , then it's a MMO'. Then again, it's just the way you interprete things.

DAOC in the fantasy genre, and now EVE in sci-fi.

In fact, I'm not sure any game will surpass EVE since I really enjoy the offline training feature, sandbox type game play, etc.

If they throw in useful ambulation and one day, planetary or ship to ship boarding combat, I'll never leave.

SWG pre-NGE ruined all other MMO's for me. After the NGE, every MMO I've tried has failed to live up to how fun and engaging SWG pre-nge was.

On the other end of the spectrum, AoC was such an incredible let down, I walked away from MMO's.

Originally posted by mmorpgmaner

My exact thoughts. If people would realise how great of a game Daoc is, and actually tried it out.. They would leave wow and come to daoc.

Sorry to say, but going from WOW to DOAC would only amplify just how ancient it feels.  From the battle system, UI, to the movement, to the grinding, buff bots, to the poor art design and boring environments.  The ONLY way to have fun in DAOC is NOT play any MMO that came after it.  It was good for its time, but that time passed many, many years ago.

Originally posted by Josher

Originally posted by mmorpgmaner

My exact thoughts. If people would realise how great of a game Daoc is, and actually tried it out.. They would leave wow and come to daoc.

 

Sorry to say, but going from WOW to DOAC would only amplify just how ancient it feels.  From the battle system, UI, to the movement, to the grinding, buff bots, to the poor art design and boring environments.  The ONLY way to have fun in DAOC is NOT play any MMO that came after it.  It was good for its time, but that time passed many, many years ago.

I admit it does make it feel "ancient", but WoW has nothing on daoc rvr. And THAT is where the fun is.

disclaimer: the above statement is my opinion.

Originally posted by Livett

Originally posted by Josher

Originally posted by mmorpgmaner

My exact thoughts. If people would realise how great of a game Daoc is, and actually tried it out.. They would leave wow and come to daoc.

 

Sorry to say, but going from WOW to DOAC would only amplify just how ancient it feels.  From the battle system, UI, to the movement, to the grinding, buff bots, to the poor art design and boring environments.  The ONLY way to have fun in DAOC is NOT play any MMO that came after it.  It was good for its time, but that time passed many, many years ago.

 

I admit it does make it feel "ancient", but WoW has nothing on daoc rvr. And THAT is where the fun is.

 

disclaimer: the above statement is my opinion.

I never played DAOC until I played WoW because I went from UO to EQ to being fedup of the genre to Planetside, SWG and EVE. So in 2006 when I was bored I gave DAOC a try and the game just felt horrible compared to WoW and I don't know what the RvR is like but if it's anything like WAR then I prefer WoW's PVP. Even though WoW is too easy and lacks customization I feel like WoW got so many things right that most mmorpgs feel really old compared. Like combat in DAOC just had nothing on WoW's amazing combat and the UI was horrible and so was the movement etc etc.

To tell you the truth I quit DAOC after about an hour cause I couldn't stand how old it feels. I was hoping WAR would show me the light into all this RVR business but all that showed me was it is repetitive and all about ranged classes and the zerg.

Was definitely  Everquest for me.

Originally posted by MadnessRealm

Originally posted by KOrnfan4evr

Call of duty 2, diablo 2 Warcraft IIII are not MMO's.  They are actually limited to the amount of players that can be on one server at a time not to mention theres not as many updates from the companies as there are by the players.  WW2 online would be closest to call of duty, for diablo 2 would be closer to say DarkEden.  And warcraft 3 theres a game out there (cant remember the name) that was a cross between RTS and MMO.

MMOFPS includes games like Soldier Front, CrossFire, Combat Arms etc and though they also have limited amount of players, they are considered as MMOFPS. The only difference I find between those and CoD2 is that in CoD2 you don't gain "XP" for killing/winning. If that's the case than I'll replace CoD2 with CoD4.

As for Diablo 2 and Warcraft III, some people call them MMOs and some don't for the same reason you stated: "They are actually limited to the amount of players that can be on one server at a time". The other party (same as my opinion)would say that: 'As long as it is online and involve players around the world without the use of LAN , then it's a MMO'. Then again, it's just the way you interprete things.

MMO's are about players playing simultaneously.  You can sure say Massively Multiplayer Online game and say theres over 150k people in the lobbys!  But really then thats ht emajority of online games.  MMO's are games where you can join 1 server with thousands of players on them.  You look at almost any review, news site or even genre and you'll more than likely see FPS, RTS, RPG instead of with the MMO.  Would I like to see some of those games in an MMO?  Sure but just having the ability to communicate with 100's if not 1000's at any given time doesnt make it an mmo, its being able to play with them that makes it so.

Originally posted by Eronakis

World of Warcraft has ruined it for me. The game it self and the games following it. I blame WoW, because it set a stage to really mess up the community in mmorpgs and make everything easy mode. Now all we see is rip offs of WoW, (Not EQ!). Also, no group activities, horrible class/skill designs as well. I think if WoW was not your first game, you could see the downfall after WoW was out for a few years. I don't want to see mmo's implement the single player bullshit then you can group till end game content. Bah that! Soon we will be seeing massive single player online games, because we shouldn't called them multiplayer because there is no group interaction anymore.

Agreed

I agree WoW sucks and other companies are continuing the suck-factor taken from WoW.

Originally posted by GreenChaos

A MUD I used to play was better than any MMO I have ever played. Full looting, eventual perma death, guilds you had to roleplay to get into, classes you had to roleplay to change to.  A tight community where you could guess who was playing what alt just by their play style.  Fights could last one second or 5 hours, one person could take on 5, I used to spend all day readying 20 page battle logs.

No MMO even comes close.

 

I had a similar experience and no MMO has ever replicated the immersiveness from the MUD I was playing in my teen-years :( I just hope the next ten years in game development will give us that WORLD we all crave again!

SWG
WoW
and Eve Online

They all have elements that made them awesome. Sadly they have areas where they lack too...

Unfortunately I still haven't found that game

This is one of those things that wants me to have a kneejerk reaction and say... The NGE version of SWG.

However, to be totally honest... EverQuest.

Personally was a huge fan of Ultima Online and the basic design choices made there.  The direction that EQ went and what basicly became the "clone standard" for mmo mechanics was everything I never wanted in an MMO...  So ya.. EQ1.

I'd say Ultima Online as a good thing I liked, and Everquest as one I didn't like that every MMO following seemed to take all the crap I didn't like from. Ultimately though, you're all to blame.

Originally posted by Abrahmm

This is easy for me. SWG ruined the genre for me. Since it was destroyed I haven't been able to find the freedom, the depth, the complexity, and the community that made SWG so much better than any other game to date.

I agree with this.  SWG was my first mmo, got in like a year before the CU.  Almost quit cause I'd never played an mmo before and had absolutely no clue what I was doing, basically just grinding scout outside Coronet and not talking to anyone.  But then some nice Wookiee came up and started talking to me, showed me how the game worked, and eventually got me into the guild I would stay in until I quit after the NGE.  Sure, it was bugged, had more than its fair share of problems, but the complexity of character building, the amazing guild I had, and my guild hall player house that I spent hours upon hours decorating and building always made me feel like I had something to do when I logged on.  That just hasn't been the case with any mmo since then, and they inevitably start to feel like work, like it's just some chore I need to do.  I've never again felt happy to sit in a guild tavern chit chatting with guildies until 2am.

EVE almost did this for me too, but I never made the same kind of connections I had in SWG.  Too often it just felt like a solo game, which I'm sure was just the fact that I never seemed to find the right corp.

 Two MMos destroyed it for me.

Dark Age of Camelot. There hasn't been a game with the sheer level of awesome RvR as DAoC. No game since 2001 has done even half what DAoC did. 

And the second one is obvious, WoW, for making MMOs mainstream shallow money maker games like Halo.  WoW did nothing unique or new, and still hasn't, in the 5 years its been around it hasn't come up with a single unique feature. Its just a Borg or a parasite or something hideous.