CME had declined to refute many reports from former and current employees that they haven't been paid since November '08. Also Gary Whiting is allegedly involved in a pyramid scheme which involves selling SGW (he is a major shareholder in CME), he has not commented on the subject.

CME Employees blog.

CME admitting a financial meltdown in December '08.

Anonymous site that popped up just before it began.

Will CME fold before SGW is released, or will they rush release to salvage some cash?

i guess its going to come down to whether MGM are prepared to help CME out.

This game is gonna sink without a trace. I gave up on the Beta ages ago. I can't decide whether it will be a shame or not...

It is too bad but the economical crisis will ram computer games too, particulary companies that doesn't have a game out and therefor are depending on investors. Companies like Mythic and Funcom at least get's in some money from their games so they have it easier but CME have no income.

Originally posted by Loke666

It is too bad but the economical crisis will ram computer games too, particulary companies that doesn't have a game out and therefor are depending on investors. Companies like Mythic and Funcom at least get's in some money from their games so they have it easier but CME have no income.

Exactly,

And be frank here. This is nothing new and has even nothing to do with the economic crisis really.

This kind of thing happens all the time.

How many MMO's have been in development and canceled without even seeing the light of day these past years?

Precisely. CME with their SGW is no different.

Originally posted by scottscott

i guess its going to come down to whether MGM are prepared to help CME out.

I doubt it, but if CME liquidate someone may well buy the IP and work done on the game so far.

Originally posted by Agricola1

CME had declined to refute many reports from former and current employees that they haven't been paid since November '08. Also Gary Whiting is allegedly involved in a pyramid scheme which involves selling SGW (he is a major shareholder in CME), he has not commented on the subject.

CME Employees blog.

CME admitting a financial meltdown in December '08.

Anonymous site that popped up just before it began.

Will CME fold before SGW is released, or will they rush release to salvage some cash?

Sorry you need to get your facts right before saying this on a public forum, the only info you have heard or anyone has heard is from third parties. As for pyramid scheme I suggest you also do some research as the compensation plan is the same as any MLM company after I looked into it. If you know what the meaning of a true pyramid scheme is then you'll see mmoguls plan itself operates within the laws. As for a few other questional things thats another matter.

Please try not to big NOTE yourself as in the end its pointless.

Disgruntled employeees and third party information is not what I would call hard proof.

Originally posted by sancher36

Originally posted by Agricola1

CME had declined to refute many reports from former and current employees that they haven't been paid since November '08. Also Gary Whiting is allegedly involved in a pyramid scheme which involves selling SGW (he is a major shareholder in CME), he has not commented on the subject.

CME Employees blog.

CME admitting a financial meltdown in December '08.

Anonymous site that popped up just before it began.

Will CME fold before SGW is released, or will they rush release to salvage some cash?

 

Sorry you need to get your facts right before saying this on a public forum, the only info you have heard or anyone has heard is from third parties. As for pyramid scheme I suggest you also do some research as the compensation plan is the same as any MLM company after I looked into it. If you know what the meaning of a true pyramid scheme is then you'll see mmoguls plan itself operates within the laws. As for a few other questional things thats another matter.

Please try not to big NOTE yourself as in the end its pointless.

Disgruntled employeees and third party information is not what I would call hard proof.

Well this is why I'm posting it in the rumour room. Although if you look in the second link you'll see quite clearly CME admits it has a cash flow problem and is looking for new investors. So I'm just wondering how bad that is.

About employees not being paid, when given the chance in the interview I linked they declined to refute claims they hadn't paid staff. So this only fuels the allegations from several sources that it's true. Generally when a company declines to publicly deny something like this it is true.

Your right I don't know what an MLM is or even what it stands for but a pyramid scheme is my best description. Also the company running it are situated in the same building as CME and are certain that Gary Whiting is speaking at thier conferences on selling this MLM with SGW participating. Gary Whiting hasn't made a comment either way publicly but should if it isn't true.

Only proof of anything is that CME needs new cash during an economic crisis, the rest are rumours unitl CME/Gary Whiting make a clear comment.

However there are so many sources confirming that CME isn't paying wages I find it hard to believe otherwise, and CME dodging the question when asked only lends creedence to it.

OK I found this article click dated September the 18th. It asks CME about rumours that they're broke and planning layoffs thier response in September 18th was,

The official comment was this: "Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment is a start up, and like many start ups, we face the typical cash flow issues that all pre-revenue companies face. CME continues to fund its operations in the same way it has done for three years and the viability of the Stargate Worlds project is not in question. We fully expect to complete and ship Stargate Worlds in 2009."

and

Marketing guy Kevin Balentine assured us that large-scale layoffs are not planned, and that the company's other two projects are moving along as well.

Then the second article click dated December the 5th where another interview is conducted due to rumours of employees not being paid, this is thier response,

"At Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment, we have always been upfront with the media and our fans that we are a start-up," said Balentine. "Like many start ups, we face the same cash-flow issues that all pre-revenue companies face."
 

and

Balentine says the company's core investors are still dedicated to the company -- "but the new economic realities are forcing us to seek out additional sources of funding, and that’s what we’re doing."

So what's the conclusion?

Things are getting financially worse, people have been laid off since December and it seems CME isn't giving us the entire low down of the situation.

Will SGW be released? I believe so, but it will probably be rushed due to the economic climate. CME has failed to give clear answers on many rumours and has stated in thier own forums that they will not answer such questions concerning personal matters (ie, paychecks). I agree to a point but rumours about pyramid schemes if untrue need to be publicly dispelled now. Also if they've paid thier staff already (another rumour) they need to state this publicly and state what happened so that it goes no further.

CME staff have denied rumours of layoffs on thier site, tkksnow: "To answer the core of your question, no there has not been a wave of layoffs due to any financial difficulties." this month. So not a wave of layoffs but people have been leaving and talking to journalists. It kind of reminds me of what happened with SIGIL, employees leaving said similar things but people didn't believe it because McQuaid was the MMO God of the internet! But with the economic crisis and being a start up company that has cash flow problems I find it strange they wouldn't be laying off some staff, right? Probably not mass lay offs though as I doubt they have that many employees, 10 people would be a mass layoff for a company the size of CME!
 

Originally posted by Agricola1

OK I found this article click dated September the 18th. It asks CME about rumours that they're broke and planning layoffs thier response in September 18th was,

The official comment was this: "Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment is a start up, and like many start ups, we face the typical cash flow issues that all pre-revenue companies face. CME continues to fund its operations in the same way it has done for three years and the viability of the Stargate Worlds project is not in question. We fully expect to complete and ship Stargate Worlds in 2009."

and

Marketing guy Kevin Balentine assured us that large-scale layoffs are not planned, and that the company's other two projects are moving along as well.

Then the second article click dated December the 5th where another interview is conducted due to rumours of employees not being paid, this is thier response,

"At Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment, we have always been upfront with the media and our fans that we are a start-up," said Balentine. "Like many start ups, we face the same cash-flow issues that all pre-revenue companies face."
 

and

Balentine says the company's core investors are still dedicated to the company -- "but the new economic realities are forcing us to seek out additional sources of funding, and that’s what we’re doing."

So what's the conclusion?

Things are getting financially worse, people have been laid off since December and it seems CME isn't giving us the entire low down of the situation.

Will SGW be released? I believe so, but it will probably be rushed due to the economic climate. CME has failed to give clear answers on many rumours and has stated in thier own forums that they will not answer such questions concerning personal matters (ie, paychecks). I agree to a point but rumours about pyramid schemes if untrue need to be publicly dispelled now. Also if they've paid thier staff already (another rumour) they need to state this publicly and state what happened so that it goes no further.

CME staff have denied rumours of layoffs on thier site, tkksnow: "To answer the core of your question, no there has not been a wave of layoffs due to any financial difficulties." this month. So not a wave of layoffs but people have been leaving and talking to journalists. It kind of reminds me of what happened with SIGIL, employees leaving said similar things but people didn't believe it because McQuaid was the MMO God of the internet! But with the economic crisis and being a start up company that has cash flow problems I find it strange they wouldn't be laying off some staff, right? Probably not mass lay offs though as I doubt they have that many employees, 10 people would be a mass layoff for a company the size of CME!
 

You are still reading more into their statements than you should plus the fact you are saying they should come out and mention behind the scenes stuff. The only people that should have a right to know of the monetary side of everything happening is there investors, not the general public and you should realise that.

Maybe they are having issues as all software developers do but you do not have the right to demand that information.

Originally posted by sancher36

Originally posted by Agricola1

OK I found this article click dated September the 18th. It asks CME about rumours that they're broke and planning layoffs thier response in September 18th was,

The official comment was this: "Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment is a start up, and like many start ups, we face the typical cash flow issues that all pre-revenue companies face. CME continues to fund its operations in the same way it has done for three years and the viability of the Stargate Worlds project is not in question. We fully expect to complete and ship Stargate Worlds in 2009."

and

Marketing guy Kevin Balentine assured us that large-scale layoffs are not planned, and that the company's other two projects are moving along as well.

Then the second article click dated December the 5th where another interview is conducted due to rumours of employees not being paid, this is thier response,

"At Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment, we have always been upfront with the media and our fans that we are a start-up," said Balentine. "Like many start ups, we face the same cash-flow issues that all pre-revenue companies face."
 

and

Balentine says the company's core investors are still dedicated to the company -- "but the new economic realities are forcing us to seek out additional sources of funding, and that’s what we’re doing."

So what's the conclusion?

Things are getting financially worse, people have been laid off since December and it seems CME isn't giving us the entire low down of the situation.

Will SGW be released? I believe so, but it will probably be rushed due to the economic climate. CME has failed to give clear answers on many rumours and has stated in thier own forums that they will not answer such questions concerning personal matters (ie, paychecks). I agree to a point but rumours about pyramid schemes if untrue need to be publicly dispelled now. Also if they've paid thier staff already (another rumour) they need to state this publicly and state what happened so that it goes no further.

CME staff have denied rumours of layoffs on thier site, tkksnow: "To answer the core of your question, no there has not been a wave of layoffs due to any financial difficulties." this month. So not a wave of layoffs but people have been leaving and talking to journalists. It kind of reminds me of what happened with SIGIL, employees leaving said similar things but people didn't believe it because McQuaid was the MMO God of the internet! But with the economic crisis and being a start up company that has cash flow problems I find it strange they wouldn't be laying off some staff, right? Probably not mass lay offs though as I doubt they have that many employees, 10 people would be a mass layoff for a company the size of CME!
 

 

You are still reading more into their statements than you should plus the fact you are saying they should come out and mention behind the scenes stuff. The only people that should have a right to know of the monetary side of everything happening is there investors, not the general public and you should realise that.

Maybe they are having issues as all software developers do but you do not have the right to demand that information.

I agree the only people that have the right to some of the information is investors and executives of CME, I'm not asking them for a financial report quarter by quarter just that if they wish to dispell some rumours CME might want to let us know about what happened over the payment of staff and if they've been paid now. But you are correct I have no right to know that information whatsoever, however I do have the right to request just I understand they're under no obligation whatsoever to give it.

Perhaps you're correct and I'm reading too much into thier statements, but I'm afraid that's what happens when there isn't enough to answer my and many others questions satisfactorly. We must look at the small information we do have and draw our best conclusions, this is why I ask CME to comment concisely on the payment rumour and Gary Whiting to atleast make a statement concerning MMOGULs claims.

I agree that they are also having similar issues as most software studios go through, most MMO studios end up with cash trouble the closer they get to launch. You are correct I don't have the right to demand anything from them, I'm merely requesting straight and definative answers to straight and definitive questions nothing more. CME is in no way obliged to answer them, and they don't.

I just would like them to clear up the rumours so we can move on with the game, as it looks good from what I've seen.

As to whether or not the employees stopped getting paid, there is this blog by someone claiming to be Aruspex, who basically confirms the lack of paychecks. A person using that name did post on the SGW boards. Of course there's no way to definitively tell if they are one and the same, and legit, but I tend to think it is, which would pretty much confirm the dire straits that CME is in.

There's also this listing, dated 22-Jan-2009 that lists what looks to be a court docket where CME is getting sued by a website design company for unpaid debt. I've not been able to find any more info on this.

Originally posted by Zhiroc

As to whether or not the employees stopped getting paid, there is this blog by someone claiming to be Aruspex, who basically confirms the lack of paychecks. A person using that name did post on the SGW boards. Of course there's no way to definitively tell if they are one and the same, and legit, but I tend to think it is, which would pretty much confirm the dire straits that CME is in.

There's also this listing, dated 22-Jan-2009 that lists what looks to be a court docket where CME is getting sued by a website design company for unpaid debt. I've not been able to find any more info on this.

Just for those that don't want to look through all the listings,

Case number: CV08-54942

Plaintiff: Kinetik I.T. Inc.

Defendant: Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment Inc.

Nature of complaint: Unpaid debt.

Attorney for plaintiff: Jonathan B. Frutkin.

Thanks for the information this is very interesting if it's for real. So not only are CME broke but they're being sued for unpaid debts? This certainly lends credence to the rumours and explains thier evasivness when asked questions on such subjects.

Just got this courtesy of Blakey, an interview with Brad Wright (one of the writers/creators of SG franchise) click.

From an interview in Janurary this year,

“7. Will you make Stargate : Worlds references in the Universe series or DVD films?”

BW: Stargate Worlds seems to be in trouble. Shame.

Brad Wright co-created Stargate: SG-1, Stargate: Atlantis, and the upcoming Stargate: Universe, has acted as an Executive Producer and Showrunner on all three, written a mind-staggering number of episodes for the Stargate franchise (many of them significant and uncredited rewrites).

I see CME galloping down diarrhea drive without a saddle right now!

If we now accept as truth that employees stopped getting paid (which implies that they weren't just laid off--but were just not paid for work they did), then it's not surprising that CME would have a lot of creditors. Employees are typically the last people you don't pay, due to labor laws, I believe.

We can examine the timeline for other coincidences. If we take that complaint site as representing the true number of days that the employees didn't get paid, given that Aruspex's blog confirms the fact if not the length, then you come up with a date of Nov 13. Now, I take this literally, meaning that since the site was meant to put CME in a bad light, that the employees last got paid on Nov 13 (a Thursday, by the way, which is a common day to be paid). Then, three weeks later, on Dec 4, the news breaks on this, and CME issues the statement that does not deny it, and mentions that they had just completed "a successful phase of closed beta" and that the next would follow "early in 2009". So, the beta completed probably somewhere around the first missed paycheck (on Nov 27) to about a week later.

It seems strange to me that there would be "rounds" of beta at this time. After all, closed beta had only been started about 5-7 weeks earlier (previous to that, it was in a "friends & family" alpha test). This seems very short for a round of beta at this time, and I do not recall other games having such a pause in beta testing. I can only conclude that beta testing had to be suspended because they lacked the funds to pay for the hosting, and I would not expect it to resume until CME fixes their funding problem. We're just about out of Jan now, and there's been no word on this.

Given that CME is in arrears to employees, as well as others (it seems), I would have to imagine that they are seriously in debt, maybe in the millions. At this point, they would not only have to get probably $5-10 million to resume development, but also a million or two (or more) to pay off employees, taxes, and creditors. That's a pretty steep hill to climb in this economy. It's also possible that after all this time that employees have found other jobs, which means a loss of intellectual capital as well, meaning a further delay to the game as new developers come up to speed on the code. The only saving grace may be the economy, because the old employees may still be available.

Hmm theres a flow in the CME is broke plan. If cme were broke I doubt they chould pay who ever is hosting the stargateworlds.com website yet that seems fine. Also if they were broke it would mean that staff are gone yet in the sgw offical forums we see people like Nick LaMartina who is in charge of the sound in SGW who is active in that forums as well as a few other cme staff.

CME is not hosting their own website. Investigating the IP address of forums.stargateworlds.com, it seems to be owned by PureGig (http://puregig.net). It is likely that CME contracted for services and prepaid for a number of months, maybe even a year. But this is speculation (well, it all is, actually).

If you examine the posts on the forums:

• Sep/Oct: 369 posts (36% tkksnow, 16 others posted)
• Dec/Jan: 174 posts (55% tkksnow, 8 others posted)

I left out Nov as that was likely a "transition" month. Obviously, quite a drop. No wonder people were talking about how little new info was coming out...

It's impossible to say what is going on right now. Perhaps they found new funding and are starting to ramp up again. But it's clear to me that they pretty much shut down for the month of Dec. and the early part of Jan. And given the circumstances, I just don't buy the holiday excuse....

Edit: I did a much more extensive survey of the forums, and updated the numbers.

There's a lot more to what's swirling around CME too.

Looks like some of their people at the highest levels are mixed up in some rather shady dealings as well. Some of it you can read here. You can go sniff around yourself too and find most of this out, and much more. Lots coming out all the time, and more people getting right concerned and distancing themselves from SGW and CME entirely.

Just be careful, the fanbois are being rabid free spin doctors and apologists for the company, and will pretty much stop at nothing once they go on the attack.

Here's another court case.

The plaintiff is Chandler Freeway Crossing. There's a mention of Breach of Contract, but you can't actually retrieve the complaint. If you Google them, one of the brochures you can find seems to mention CME as a tenant of their business park.

Yet another court case here click seems this time MMOGULS and CME and affiliates are in the dock for harrasment to people and animals! Maybe Gary Whitting threatened to rape his cat if he didn't sign up as a premium pyramid scheme member?