I see no evidence to imply that SOE is doing well, I also compared the PS3 to everyother console on the market not just the market leader. Since the division for the PS3 was merged with SOE it is pertenent, the PS3 is the lowest selling and most expensive console on the market with the least games.

If someone has evidence from a financial report that SOE is making profits when the rest of the company is having its worst losses in 14 years and starting to cut jobs please link it. The studio they bought has a total of 14 employees and a shit game, so they make even Aventurine look like a goliath of the industry! Not exactly proof that SOE is a "shinning star"!

SOE has less subscribers now than 4 years ago but more than twice as many games, if I were to describe something as bloated it wouldn't be Wii sales! SOE has gone microtransaction and subscription on all games plus they attempt to get you to gamble ingame under the guise of a card game (banned in some U.S states).

Smedley has 2 major IPs, the Matrix and Star Wars but has lost subscribers so that both IPs are dead, the only thing SOE do to increase profits is to invent more ways to get thier ever shrinking playerbase to pay more cash with crazy card games and cash shop schemes on top of the subscription they already pay, rather than make decent games or fix what they have!

Soon SOE is going to reach critical mass, the station pass has already gone up by around 40% since launch and with the economic crisis and thier plunging playerbase the system has to crack soon. Smedley will go on squeezing more cash out of a decline playerbase until it just gives up like an old farm animal and just keels over and plays something else.

SOE is doing well? Compared to who? Enron? DeLorean? New Coke? Zsa Zsa Gabore? Link or it never happened! SOE is a pariah of the MMORPG industry for good reason, and they are not successfull, FACT!

there is no real indicator anywhwere that about the point if SOE alone is making losses or wins.

Yes its true that SOE lost a lot subscribers since the time when EQ was at population max and SWG just launched, but that doesn't mean they are making losses. i think all games that they developed got them their devcosts back (matrix and vanguard were not developed by soe they were just bought by them after failed launches, so i doubt they payed that much for these 2 games) and i think that you can keep these games that they still have running at a profit without making losses if you use an appropriately sized team.

having 3 games in developemenet is actually a good strategy in my eyes cause without new launches they won't suddenly pull more subscribers out of their hat. the 3 announced games in developement are also not all aimed at same population group Free Realms is aimed at kids/families, agency seems to be more shooter like and dc online is a comic based mm on a major ip. I have no idea how these games will sell yet, so i guess we have to wait their launches before we can say if these will get soe more subscribers or if they will hurt sonys finances in the end.

I also looked up last the financial report from sony's last quarter (dez 31), it shows that the game section was one fo the few sections that made a small profit.  with ps3 probably still sold at a loss (at least analysts on the web think it is) the profit of the software was most likely higher.  which still doesn't give more  than a hint for SOE's performance, but i doubt that you can find a more detailed breakdown of Sony finances anywhere. my personal guess is that soe is still making profit but the profit is lower than at the good old eq years, and they are hoping that the new games will give them a betetr performance soon.

I'd love to be an M&A guy at the firm Sony uses. It seems they buy market share like phone companies do nowadays.

100 agreed on the Q financials. The thing is that EQ2 and Vanguard have very good framework. I imagine those games running for quite some time profitably.

What chaps my ass is the absolutely disgraceful lack of integrity shown to Sigil. Talk about big corporation group think and mis-management. I can understand SOE wanting to put their eggs in the 360 basket, because it paid off quite well. But simply taking a talented studio and a truly brilliant designer (McQuaid) and just crushing their creative drive/financial aptitude/ability to work etc. is shameless. Vanguard could have been truly great, epic even if the studio just had more hands off management and time to make it.

This is kind of predictable of Sony. They can and will dedicate some serious manpower toward mmo-type gaming. They'll expand and probably do quite well. It's just unfortunate for Vanguard and EQ2 that that time wasn't 7 years ago. Look for them to rape talent from the studio's they've accuired, use their current management structure and in house teams, and create a game that sells billions of copies but never will have the greatness of eq and the games created by people who fucking CARED about the content they were going to deliver.

No point in arguing with SOE haters.

SOE is fine, PS3 is doing as they expected, PSP is down slightly on what they expected, PS2 is down slightly on what they expected.

TV, Mobiles, Camera, Etc are DOWN 95% on what they expected.

They will never escape the fact that SOE is synonymous with the worst MMO business decision ever in their decided direction (and adamant defending of that direction) of SWG.

Even people that never played the game have heard about it. It's legendary.

Originally posted by Burntvet

There is actually a likely reason for this that has nothing to do with The Agency or any of the other crap SOE is doing.

Office space prices in many markets have fallen by as much as 50%, and Texas may be one of those areas, so a lot of companies are moving once their leases are up to take advantage. Could be that it is cheaper to move into a bigger place at a lower cost than renew in a place where the landlord won't cut the rent at renewal time.

My company is doing the same thing.

And we all know how cheap Smed is, so a move is probably about the money and nothing else.

 

 

This is the most likely reason for the move.

SOE or Sony, purchased the company that makes PoxNora, hope I spelled that correctly. They are forming a studio in Austin.

I have already decided I will make my superhero in DC Universe called Smeds. He will be about 12 inches tall, have no penis, 10 pound testicles, and a head the size of a pinhead.

When new players start they can come and punch me while I charge an extra 10 dollars to your account for SOE innovation.

Originally posted by Craz_z

I'd love to be an M&A guy at the firm Sony uses. It seems they buy market share like phone companies do nowadays.

100 agreed on the Q financials. The thing is that EQ2 and Vanguard have very good framework. I imagine those games running for quite some time profitably.

What chaps my ass is the absolutely disgraceful lack of integrity shown to Sigil. Talk about big corporation group think and mis-management. I can understand SOE wanting to put their eggs in the 360 basket, because it paid off quite well. But simply taking a talented studio and a truly brilliant designer (McQuaid) and just crushing their creative drive/financial aptitude/ability to work etc. is shameless. Vanguard could have been truly great, epic even if the studio just had more hands off management and time to make it.

This is kind of predictable of Sony. They can and will dedicate some serious manpower toward mmo-type gaming. They'll expand and probably do quite well. It's just unfortunate for Vanguard and EQ2 that that time wasn't 7 years ago. Look for them to rape talent from the studio's they've accuired, use their current management structure and in house teams, and create a game that sells billions of copies but never will have the greatness of eq and the games created by people who fucking CARED about the content they were going to deliver.

  

Lack of integrity shown to SIGIL? You are either Brad McQuaid or high! Sigil didn't have a a game until SOE started funding them, Smed was furious when he found out that Vanguard didn't actually exist and Brad had been lying to him to get the funding!

Talented studio? Most of the people employed weren't even qualified they were just family members signed up to get a slice of that Sigil goodness and do no work! All SIGIL did for years was make demos to show to Microsoft to get more funding, until MS got suspicious and sent a team down to SIGIL to checkout progress and found Vanguard didn't exist in any form!

If it wasn't for Smedley Vanguard would never have been made, McQuaid was the worst boss those coders had ever had. He denied them access to any scripting tools and was high as a kite most of the time roaming the offices for any pescription meds he could swipe of desks! The second inh command had his estranged wife working there whilst he was banging the secretary!

You want the full story on SIGIL click here.

SIGIL was a nightmare, McQuaid a junky on an ego trip and the game was so screwed up even SOE could only improve on it, and that's saying something!

You don't need a massive player base of 13 million to make money.

Say you have 50,000 people, that's $10 a month from each, $120 a year times 50,000 = $6,000,000

A lot of money.

If you have brought a failing company out, no up front development cost (or very little to buy it initially), keep say 20 members of staff on it and shared infrastructure with many other games, is not going to cost a lot.

Basically SOE are grabbing as many games from as many different areas as possible. Each is a little earner, which as a whole = lots of cash.

They don't need one game with a massive player base, just lots and lots of little games.

Don't get me wrong, I am not defending SOE in any way but their business plan is sound. Too bad their customer services is awful.

Originally posted by Superman0X

 

 

SOE was moved out of the Movie Division, and move to the Games division to take the lead. If you check, you will see that this was a PROMOTION.

 

   I am not sure how SOE was put with the movie division in the first place perhaps to bury SOE true accounting information considering that MMO games have little to nothing to do with movies.

So the move to SCEA was more of a correction then a promotion and SOE is not the lead of  anything except poor business practices. Kaz has Smed by the short hairs.

Originally posted by hercules

All those screaming SoE  is not making money are basing it purely on their hatred for SoE and have jack data to support themselves .

If a company expands during this time of economical troubles you can bet there is a  bunch of directors and accountants who sat down and decided they needed to do so.

How much money SoE makes is anyone's guess but blindly sitting in your small room on your pc and guessing is laughable.

Some of us actually do some research and base our opinions on current evidence:

www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php 

and

www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php

Cutting 16,000 jobs over all of Sony is strange motivation to open a larger office for SOE, a division known for under-performing. See, not everything posted is based on making things up.

Originally posted by Puuk

Originally posted by hercules

All those screaming SoE  is not making money are basing it purely on their hatred for SoE and have jack data to support themselves .

If a company expands during this time of economical troubles you can bet there is a  bunch of directors and accountants who sat down and decided they needed to do so.

How much money SoE makes is anyone's guess but blindly sitting in your small room on your pc and guessing is laughable.

 

Some of us actually do some research and base our opinions on current evidence:

www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php 

and

www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php

Cutting 16,000 jobs over all of Sony is strange motivation to open a larger office for SOE, a division known for under-performing. See, not everything posted is based on making things up.

Obviously not since that doesn't say which areas they are cutting from except television production. Like people keep saying Sony doesn't always equal SOE. SOE is only a small division of Sony. Just because say their camera and laptop division is doing horrible does not mean their gaming division is doing bad.

Originally posted by pb1285n

Originally posted by Puuk

Originally posted by hercules

All those screaming SoE  is not making money are basing it purely on their hatred for SoE and have jack data to support themselves .

If a company expands during this time of economical troubles you can bet there is a  bunch of directors and accountants who sat down and decided they needed to do so.

How much money SoE makes is anyone's guess but blindly sitting in your small room on your pc and guessing is laughable.

 

Some of us actually do some research and base our opinions on current evidence:

www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php 

and

www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php

Cutting 16,000 jobs over all of Sony is strange motivation to open a larger office for SOE, a division known for under-performing. See, not everything posted is based on making things up.

 

Obviously not since that doesn't say which areas they are cutting from except television production. Like people keep saying Sony doesn't always equal SOE. SOE is only a small division of Sony. Just because say their camera and laptop division is doing horrible does not mean their gaming division is doing bad.

What fantasy world are you living in? Do these quotes from the articles I posted just "escape" you?
 

"In addition, the company has announced that it expects losses for its games division to rise up to ¥30 billion ($338 million) for the fiscal year, with half of that attributed to lower than expected sales."

"As part of its cost-cutting initiatives, Sony indicated future headcount reductions and other restructuring measures to its movie, music, and games divisions, according to a Sony presentation slide published by game weblog Kotaku:"
 

Pull your head out of the sand. 16,000 jobs is across the board. The games division is not safe - period.

Neither of Punks quotes are about SoE, they are about Sony as a whole. It is not even sure if Sony Games always has SoE being considered as part of it in these statements. I doubt that they are, certainly not always.

Many of you are totally blinkered by your prejudice to Sony or parts of that company. I don’t think they are a great company but they are not as bad as is painted here. If you want evidence about how SoE is doing, the opening of the new offices is evidence….evidence SoE is making a decent profit. But you guys with an SoE bugbear can’t see that…instead they “do the oposite of what people think they will do” or “my guess would be just an investment” or “I see no evidence to imply that SOE is doing well”.

They bought new offices, they are doing well, try to get our head out of the sand, even if only for a moment.

To my mind Turbine is the best MMO company out there, while SoE does trail at the rear. But this repetitious bleating about SoE just never stops, move on and get a new online life.

If SOE isn't included in Sonys game division where do you think it is? You say SOE makes a nice profit when Sony says the games division is losing money, so you say maybe SOE isn't in the games division.

And you say I'm wearing blinkers?

Originally posted by Superman0X

Originally posted by Daffid011

 If the heads at Sony were to ask for the performace of SOE over the last few years what do you think it would look like?  Why do you think they are no longer in the movie division where the executives in charge have no roots in video games?

 

 

SOE was moved out of the Movie Division, and move to the Games division to take the lead. If you check, you will see that this was a PROMOTION.

 

When SOE was in the movie division Smed was pretty much free to run how he wanted as long as the books looked decent.  By that I mean there was no one above him with game experience in the movie division. 

Now SOE is in the Games division and he has a direct boss who he has to answer to.  That is not a promotion. 

I know what the press release said, but that is just PR babble.  You don't put someone in charge of your division who has lost the lions share of his customers over the last few years.  Advisory maybe, leadership no.

Originally posted by Scot

Neither of 'pb(whatevers)' quotes are about SoE, they are about Sony as a whole. It is not even sure if Sony Games always has SoE being considered as part of it in these statements. I doubt that they are, certainly not always.

Many of you are totally blinkered by your prejudice to Sony or parts of that company. I don’t think they are a great company but they are not as bad as is painted here. If you want evidence about how SoE is doing, the opening of the new offices is evidence….evidence SoE is making a decent profit. But you guys with an SoE bugbear can’t see that…instead they “do the oposite of what people think they will do” or “my guess would be just an investment” or “I see no evidence to imply that SOE is doing well”.

They bought new offices, they are doing well, try to get our head out of the sand, even if only for a moment.

To my mind Turbine is the best MMO company out there, while SoE does trail at the rear. But this repetitious bleating about SoE just never stops, move on and get a new online life.

My company moved to a larger location (by about 4x the size) and we pay less than our previous location.  It is a buyers market right now, so what was suggested above does make sense.  Who knows, this could be the precusor to them consolidating divisions to Austin and laying off people elsewhere or they are doing super duper awesome. 

As for SOE doing well consider this.

SOE stated they had over 550k users in eq, over 300k in eq2 and 300k swg from press releases, interviews and snippets.  That is not counting whatever they had in planetside, eqoa, matrix, etc.  At their height they were somewhere around a million subs combined give or take.

How many subscribers do you think they have these days?   Even if you want to be extremely optomistic and say 500k, that is still a net loss of roughly half of their customers over a few years.  Try walking into your review at Sony corp with those figures during a time when Sony is looking to downsize. 

I understand there is more to soe than mmos, but as far as mmos go they are doing anything but well considering the state of their company.  Imagine this if you will:  lets say they do not have any new games in development or that Sony decides to cut all new mmo projects to save money.  How long do you think soe as a division would stay untouched or even in business in the current state? 

Personally I think smed got the ultimatum to increase revenue (and also prove his upcoming revenue models for their future mmos) or soe would suffer cuts like the rest of the division.  That is why I think they rushed station cash into the game.  I think their entire future depends on the success of dcu/free realms/agency.

Even if they only have 300k subs, that is still profitable for their MMOs, due EQ, EQ2, SWG, Planetside and EQOA all having paid off their development costs already. And PotBS not being their problem, Matrix was purchased on the cheap and Vanguard had most of its debt wiped out when Sigil went backrupt.

New game development has a seperate budget and is not calculated against current titles beyond the initial fee to start development.

SOE may not be the big money makers of old, but there is ZERO information out there to say SOE is making a loss. Games division covers console game development too, which Sony have been cutting back on throughout 2008 anyways.

Originally posted by JestorRodo

From : www.costar.com/News/Article.aspx

Sony Online Entertainment Expands Austin Operations
Game Developer Inks Deal for 37,492 SF at Prominent Pointe II
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By Brandon K. Skaggs
January 27, 2009
Sony Online Entertainment leased 37,492 square feet from Aspen Properties at Prominent Pointe II at 8310 N. Capital of Texas Highway in Austin.

The 105,000-square-foot, Class A office building was constructed in the Northwest Submarket last June. Sony's five-year deal stabilizes the building, bringing its occupancy up to 88 percent.

The game developer anticipates moving from its 24,000-square-foot space in Research Park Plaza IV at the end of the quarter.

Kevin Granger of Stream Realty represented the landlord, Aspen Properties. Jay Lamy and Chris Perry of Aquila Commercial represented the tenant. ENDQUOTE

 

The extra 13,492 square feet is for what? Bowing Alley?  Executive Dining?  Customer Lube Jobs?

 

 

 

It doesn't work that way. As another person already mentioned, you can sometimes get larger space for less money per square foot. Heck, My company recently moved to a larger space and they are paying less as well.

If their lease is up they have the option to either renegotiate a new lease or look elsewhere. If it looks like they can't get the same lease or that they can (even with moving expenses) get a larger space for the same if not less money, they will take it. Especially since it is easier to expand if needed but more difficult if you need to expand and have no space.