there are alot of rpgs made by groups of players, go into Warcraft 3 and go on battle.net.  Look in the custom games lists and you're bound to find one

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Originally posted by Sneakers05
Instead of waiting 10 more years for darkfall to be released why dont we gather some people from mmorpg and make our own mmorpg we know what we want, they dont know what we want, so what are WE waiting for?

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I agree. And while you are at it, don't be silly and pay some car lot or bank to finance some piece of crap new car or truck and pay for it for like six or seven years! Build your own damn car much cheaper and more efficient as well. Why make it require gasoline? Hell, make it run on your sewage or trash instead! Great idea right?

Sounds great. LOL. It's so much easier to talk big then to actually cash the checks your mouth is writing.

Lets make our own mmorpg!

Yep, let's make our own car and our own TV and our own house and our own electric stove while we are at it!

Hell, why have to work and make the governments money since we are talking all big? Let's just make our own damn money! It couldn't be that hard to print up a few hundred dollar bills, right?

LOL. I could go on and on, but I think you see my point.

- Zaxx

I just had a crazy idea.  So, we want a game by gamers for gamers.  I'm really stepping out of the box on this...

...start up a non-profit organization, get funding (i hear it's easy to do if you have a legitimate non-profit organization).  The purpose is to develop a game for gamers, which will be distributed freely and will not require monthly subscriptions (is that non-profit enough? i don't know much about non-profit organizations)...

...you may be saying "That won't work..." for a number of reasons.  Server upkeep, have to pay staff, etc...

...well, hopefully funding and donations will be sufficient for paying staff and getting the game released.  What we won't do is provide servers.  The gamers will provide their own servers (private WoW servers comes to mind).

The gamers running their own servers will be able to add their own content, develop and share patches with other gamers who are running their own servers, and pretty much create their own unique experience on their own server.  If you think about it, using this method of allowing the gamers to host their own servers, the possibilities could be endless.

The gamers would be obligated to funding the private servers probably via donations.

This would truly be the game by gamers for gamers.  It would bring a whole new level to customization.  The gamers will be able to design their own content (and this is possible for those who know what they're doing).  Those who don't know how to do it will be in a good situation anyway, because they can play the game without paying a cent (unless they wish to support their server by donating).

I think it's possible, but would be a lot of work.  Primarily, the developers would have to lay out the foundation of the game: world physics and graphics engine, some basic character models, etc.  They would also need to design a game with an open-ended storyline, which will allow room for the gamers to decide what happens.

I don't know, food for thought.  Kind of a neat idea.  Hell, think about it, you could have your own server and play the game without limitation with just an obligation to keep your server(s) up and running.  It could work.

First of all, with gamers running their own servers they probably wouldn't be able to hold that many people, not the thousands that regular MMORPGS play, unless of course they are shelling out the doe but who wants to do that?? Secondly,  most gamers don't know how to develop patches and new content, they just know how to play the game. 

Originally posted by deathtripp

First of all, with gamers running their own servers they probably wouldn't be able to hold that many people, not the thousands that regular MMORPGS play, unless of course they are shelling out the doe but who wants to do that?? Secondly,  most gamers don't know how to develop patches and new content, they just know how to play the game. 

yea, the expense of the servers would be the biggest issue.

however, this is just to point out that it's possible, search for "free wow servers" on google and click on the first link (i think it's xtremetop100.com).  if you look at that page, you'll see there's tons of gamers out there already doing this.

you are right, most gamers wont be able to do this.  but those with the time and dedication and technical knowledge will be able to.

Since making a game is both insanely expensive, and moreso time consuming, why not just play D&D?  Far less money, far less time, much larger resource for making actual worlds to play in.  Imagination trumps visual masturbation everytime.

Granted, yes, having an actual MMO that rocked would be nice.  But, hell, that could be never from the looks of things now-a-days.

Actually I plan on making my own MMORPG...

but I'm still working on making my own car.

It would be an interesting idea for a new software product.

Build your own mmorpg.

People have already tried to do this with NeverwinterNights. But of course, you can't get more than 64 people in one game there. Wich is pretty small compared to regular mmorpgs which support up to 5000 concurrent users for each shard.

And the graphics are very dated.

Perhaps it's time for something new like this, but on a larger scale. Doable? I have no idea.

Oh and this whole topic is very off topic.

Originally posted by xiirot

I just had a crazy idea.  So, we want a game by gamers for gamers.  I'm really stepping out of the box on this...

...start up a non-profit organization, get funding (i hear it's easy to do if you have a legitimate non-profit organization).  The purpose is to develop a game for gamers, which will be distributed freely and will not require monthly subscriptions (is that non-profit enough? i don't know much about non-profit organizations)...

...you may be saying "That won't work..." for a number of reasons.  Server upkeep, have to pay staff, etc...

...well, hopefully funding and donations will be sufficient for paying staff and getting the game released.  What we won't do is provide servers.  The gamers will provide their own servers (private WoW servers comes to mind).

The gamers running their own servers will be able to add their own content, develop and share patches with other gamers who are running their own servers, and pretty much create their own unique experience on their own server.  If you think about it, using this method of allowing the gamers to host their own servers, the possibilities could be endless.

The gamers would be obligated to funding the private servers probably via donations.

This would truly be the game by gamers for gamers.  It would bring a whole new level to customization.  The gamers will be able to design their own content (and this is possible for those who know what they're doing).  Those who don't know how to do it will be in a good situation anyway, because they can play the game without paying a cent (unless they wish to support their server by donating).

I think it's possible, but would be a lot of work.  Primarily, the developers would have to lay out the foundation of the game: world physics and graphics engine, some basic character models, etc.  They would also need to design a game with an open-ended storyline, which will allow room for the gamers to decide what happens.

I don't know, food for thought.  Kind of a neat idea.  Hell, think about it, you could have your own server and play the game without limitation with just an obligation to keep your server(s) up and running.  It could work.

Reminds me of another equally brilliant plan:

1. Collect Underpants

2. ????

3. Profit

I'm currently involved in an MMO project that is right-now completely volunteer based with a bit of funding for various costs (such as getting the company licensed in the UK)

The biggest most important thing of a project with such low funding, is your core starting people. The people that will stay with you, rain or shine, are the most important.

We happened to have an artist, which was also the writer, along with a great programmer, and myself for sound design and music.

Our biggest hurdle that we kept running into was 3d modelers. They were impossible to keep for several reasons. Mainly because they just weren't into the project like we were. If one of us had 3d modeling experience, we'd be a lot farther right now.

So...MMO's are hard to even get an ALPHA running. Unless you have a bit of money, or a LOT of ambition, MMO's are extrememly tough.

I'd say more, but guess what? You guessed it: NDA.

Hard to get 3D modelers to slave away fro free?  Not surprising.  You see, every single human being on Earth beleives he has a great game idea.  But it takes actual skills to produce any game, good or bad.  People with actual skills get hired by actual companies to work on actual projects.

If you want to make an indie game, you damn well better know how to do something other than just "have great ideas".  Great ideas are a dime a dozen.

Originally posted by Sneakers05

Instead of waiting 10 more years for darkfall to be released why dont we gather some people from mmorpg and make our own mmorpg we know what we want, they dont know what we want, so what are WE waiting for?

A programmer just coming from school cost you 25-30K euro's a year. So someone expirienced in this line of business will cost you double. Then you need to have a designer (Actualy more then one), someone who knows how to make a proper design on with the programmer can work and keep it dynamic. They prolly get payed about as much as the programmers. 

The server will cost you even more and you need to have them from the beginning of the project. So that you can have an SVN running (File management), have phone conferences (Just mail will not do) and later in the development play test (For the QA department). Then you will have the problem of PR, you really need someone for that else you just end up like Darkfall.

"The gamers will provide their own servers (private WoW servers comes to mind)."

While I like you idea, it will not work. I really doubt you will get a lot of founding and it will be extreamly expencive. Avanture has investments worth of 10 million I heard and this already is really not that much for developing the game and you will still need servers for the sake of testing and what I wrote above. 

Also a game like darkfall runs on server clusters. This means that one PC running a server is not going to be enough. While you might make a client/server design with would overcome this, it would severly limits what the game can and can not do. 

nathanpinard,

The is really a problem with project like yours, especialy if your going to look for specialised poeple (programmers enough who would land you a hand), however finding good modelers, artist, sounds artist and stuff will be hard. With luck you might attract a student who would like to get some off-school expirience to put on his CV. 

Your project might work though and does not have to take 10 years. Depending if you know your limitation when working with such a small group. This is something Darkfall has done wrong and have been to overly ambitious. Anyhow good luck with your project and hope you manage to pull it till the end.

Originally posted by CopWatch

Hard to get 3D modelers to slave away fro free?  Not surprising.  You see, every single human being on Earth beleives he has a great game idea.  But it takes actual skills to produce any game, good or bad.  People with actual skills get hired by actual companies to work on actual projects.

If you want to make an indie game, you damn well better know how to do something other than just "have great ideas".  Great ideas are a dime a dozen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, that is of course true. I'm not sure if you were arguing or just continuing the conversation.

And as far as people having actual skills getting hired by actual companies. While that IS true, there are a great deal that get hired not just because of their skills, but because of networking. It takes both.

Anyway, if luckily if we play our cards right our game will be on the mmorpg.com (not for a while though) which should prove to be ...interesting.

Also, I wanted to make something clear. We absolutely make sure anyone that is interested in our project knows what kind of work they are getting into, and what they are getting out of it.

nathanpinard,

The is really a problem with project like yours, especialy if your going to look for specialised poeple (programmers enough who would land you a hand), however finding good modelers, artist, sounds artist and stuff will be hard. With luck you might attract a student who would like to get some off-school expirience to put on his CV. 

Your project might work though and does not have to take 10 years. Depending if you know your limitation when working with such a small group. This is something Darkfall has done wrong and have been to overly ambitious. Anyhow good luck with your project and hope you manage to pull it till the end.

 

Much thanks. We actually do have several solutions to the problems I listed. They are kind of border-line NDA breaking though to go into detail.

If your curious, I have a fan site I created here: http://www.conquestofheroesfans.com. I simply do all sound design, music (along with Romeo Knight) and also edit the drama segments along with the podcast, as well as host it. This wasn't all forced upon me, but really my idea for expanding PR. It'll be starting up again when I free more projects up I have otherwise. There is no official site just yet as we're pretty early in development.

Also, we have a different strategy. We aren't really selling the game initially in terms of PR/advertising. We're selling the IP, the story, the media that people can connect to. Some people in the MMO genre don't care about story, but a great deal of people do. So to start, we are marketing novels which will somewhat immerse people into the story, along with the drama segments that I do on the podcast (if you can stand my voice) and then later on when the game itself comes out, events in the game will co-incide with the story. (not promising anything yet though)

So...I'm seeing a good future. We've pushed, but things are looking up right now. I'm glad I stuck with this project this long.

To the OP: if you knew how difficult - or an insurmountable task developing a MMORPG is, then you wouldn't have bothered asking.

Originally posted by Sneakers05

Instead of waiting 10 more years for darkfall to be released why dont we gather some people from mmorpg and make our own mmorpg we know what we want, they dont know what we want, so what are WE waiting for?

Sounds like what Aventurine did ten years ago.

Keep in mind that those type of projects have been already tried by a lot of people. Few of them manage to push the product to release as Aventurine has done.

Take Perpetual Entertainment (these ones were not indie) for example. They moved to have two solid games in development,  Gods & Heroes (This one always looked more "real" than Darkfall to me)  and Star Trek Online,  to cancel one and Transfer the other to Cryptic Studios within a year (more or less).

We can like or dislike how Aventurine manages the PR, info, release dates, development time etc... but one thing it is true, they have survived where other companies would have sunk long time ago.

Creating a new MMO and bringing it to market is hard (pretty much true for any new product actually) and while many will try, few will succeed.

In this era of the big budget MMO, its even harder for a small company to compete, and perhaps we've almost reached the point where its just not possible for indie development houses to produce them anymore.

If Aventurine manages to pull it off they will have done something remarkable, not matter how it turns out.

Originally posted by CopWatch

Hard to get 3D modelers to slave away fro free?  Not surprising.  You see, every single human being on Earth beleives he has a great game idea.  But it takes actual skills to produce any game, good or bad.  People with actual skills get hired by actual companies to work on actual projects.

If you want to make an indie game, you damn well better know how to do something other than just "have great ideas".  Great ideas are a dime a dozen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That is bullocks. You never heard about the modding communities appearently? 

Ever heard about Forgotten Hope mod for BF1942?

All volunteers my friend. And those guys had some really good 3D modelers in their mod team.

Or how about Counter Strike? It started as just a mod, wich happened to grow out as a huge success that it got somehow picked up and commercialised later on.

And there are so many more examples.

Just wanted to point that out.

Cheers

Great idea OP!

Send me 25 million USD through paypal and will get started right away!

Originally posted by Sneakers05

Instead of waiting 10 more years for darkfall to be released why dont we gather some people from mmorpg and make our own mmorpg we know what we want, they dont know what we want, so what are WE waiting for?

The problem is: I know what I want, You know what you want, The next poster willknow what he wants. And they will all be diferent opinions.

By the way, I remember one time I logged in one of the free to play mmorpgs listed here,it was one in development but open to all wanting to play. And there was one guy telling another: Come on dude! lets log out of the game and make our own one better than this! And the other one was saying: Oh not now!,but little later.

I couldnt stop laughing.