I don't think they are going to make any sandbox MMOs unless sandbox MMOs start becoming popular.  Then they'll copy all the good features of those sandbox MMOs, add a whole bunch of polish, fill it with loads of pop culture references and easter eggs, and make it cater a bit more to casual players.  That's Blizzard's typical MO.

So first a semi-popular sandbox MMO needs to come out.  I don't think Darkfall will be popular enough to catch Blizzard's eye.  Maybe the KOTOR MMO if it has enough sandbox elements.  The Fallout MMO is a more likely bet.

Maybe.. it all depends.. let me think.

Probably not with its community of players. Sandbox depends on the playerbase..

If you ask 'whats a sandbox MMO?' you get 10 different interpretations.

Lot of players see preCU SWG as sandbox MMO or Saga Of Ryzom. If that is what you (OP ) think, then its a MMO that will never be as popular as WoW. Market shows that most players are not interested in having to provide in their own entertainment. They want to sit back and be entertained by the game.

Also after WoW's succes I cant imagine that Blizzard will specifically start catering to one of the minorities of the MMO community.

I see Blizzard as Walt Disney in MMO land. Mainstream all the way. Not that there is anything wrong with that. Its where the money is at after all.

Originally posted by Magnum2103

I don't think they are going to make any sandbox MMOs unless sandbox MMOs start becoming popular.  Then they'll copy all the good features of those sandbox MMOs, add a whole bunch of polish, fill it with loads of pop culture references and easter eggs, and make it cater a bit more to casual players.  That's Blizzard's typical MO.

 

So first a semi-popular sandbox MMO needs to come out.  I don't think Darkfall will be popular enough to catch Blizzard's eye.  Maybe the KOTOR MMO if it has enough sandbox elements.  The Fallout MMO is a more likely bet.

You have GOT to be kidding me.  Darkfall won't be "popular enough to catch Blizzard's eye".  How long has Darkfall been one of the top anticipated games on MMORPG.com and mind you that this is a CAREBEAR WEBSITE.

With games like DarFall, Mortal Online and Renaissance currently being developed or releasing on the horizon all referencing Ultima Online pre-trammel you can be SURE that "sandbox" games will become popular again. 

 I just love it when noobs like you come on here throwing the word "sandbox" around like they really know what their talking about.  You are absolutely totally CLUELESS of how different UO pre-trammel was and how people like me have waited 10 YEARS for a game like Darkfall to come out.  You my friend, have obviously NEVER played UO pre-trammel it is flat out obvious or you wouldn't have posted what you just did. UO was more than just a "sandbox"  Fallout 3 is a "sandbox",  UO pre-tramel was a World Simulator, and Darkfall is looking to be that as well.

People in the MMORPG industry that have never played UO pre-trammel stick out like green thumbs to us.   You have no concept of what a true MMORPG experience should be like and referencing abomination sanbdox games such as SWG and EVE will not score you any points.

Go back to the instanced, level based, treadmill theme park pit of hell that you came from.

If Blizzard is going to even ATTEMPT to create a Sandbox World SImulator, this will truly be a MASSIVE project and they will have to throw out everything that they've ever known.  Right now DarkFall is poised to be the most massive seamless world there is, with the size of their NON-INSTANCED world rumored to be the size of Germany.  Blizzard is the McDonalds of the MMORPG industry, spitting out garbage and hyping it up with marketing while people who don't know any better eat it all up as if it were filet mingon.  I have absolutely no faith that they would succeed at a sandbox MMO, they will probably just give sandboxes more of a bad name the way SWG and EVE have.

They probably could, but the question is not Themepark vs Sanbox, but more like Sci-Fi vs Fantasy vs Smthing else, or FPS vs RPG vs RTS. Hopefully something that would expand the market.

Originally posted by chr1sm

Originally posted by Magnum2103

I don't think they are going to make any sandbox MMOs unless sandbox MMOs start becoming popular.  Then they'll copy all the good features of those sandbox MMOs, add a whole bunch of polish, fill it with loads of pop culture references and easter eggs, and make it cater a bit more to casual players.  That's Blizzard's typical MO.

 

So first a semi-popular sandbox MMO needs to come out.  I don't think Darkfall will be popular enough to catch Blizzard's eye.  Maybe the KOTOR MMO if it has enough sandbox elements.  The Fallout MMO is a more likely bet.

 

You have GOT to be kidding me.  Darkfall won't be "popular enough to catch Blizzard's eye".  How long has Darkfall been one of the top anticipated games on MMORPG.com and mind you that this is a CAREBEAR WEBSITE.

With games like DarFall, Mortal Online and Renaissance currently being developed or releasing on the horizon all referencing Ultima Online pre-trammel you can be SURE that "sandbox" games will become popular again. 

 I just love it when noobs like you come on here throwing the word "sandbox" around like they really know what their talking about.  You are absolutely totally CLUELESS of how different UO pre-trammel was and how people like me have waited 10 YEARS for a game like Darkfall to come out.  You my friend, have obviously NEVER played UO pre-trammel it is flat out obvious or you wouldn't have posted what you just did. UO was more than just a "sandbox"  Fallout 3 is a "sandbox",  UO pre-tramel was a World Simulator, and Darkfall is looking to be that as well.

People in the MMORPG industry that have never played UO pre-trammel stick out like green thumbs to us.   You have no concept of what a true MMORPG experience should be like and referencing abomination sanbdox games such as SWG and EVE will not score you any points.

Go back to the instanced, level based, treadmill theme park pit of hell that you came from.

If Blizzard is going to even ATTEMPT to create a Sandbox World SImulator, this will truly be a MASSIVE project and they will have to throw out everything that they've ever known.  Right now DarkFall is poised to be the most massive seamless world there is, with the size of their NON-INSTANCED world rumored to be the size of Germany.  Blizzard is the McDonalds of the MMORPG industry, spitting out garbage and hyping it up with marketing while people who don't know any better eat it all up as if it were filet mingon.  I have absolutely no faith that they would succeed at a sandbox MMO, they will probably just give sandboxes more of a bad name the way SWG and EVE have.

Dude, you're butthurt, take a chill pill and relax, joo troo mmoboy.

Second, get real, MMOs evolve, and their standards evolve as well. WoW may be a McDonald/theme park/milking machine, but with 11 mil subscribers, they must be doing something right, same goes with EvE.

To conclude, read sig.

PS: I agree with him, the last thing blizz should be worried about at this point, is DFO

Originally posted by Mackerni

Reports before said that Blizzard was hiring for new positions to make a, "next-generation MMO" but it doesn't really entail anything after that.

That's where I kind of get excited. Think about it. All these indie companies are promising the world to you: including NPCube with Dark and Light and Aventurine SA and Darkfall, yet one completely busted and Aventurine has yet made good to many of their promises. However, if it was one to be able to take chances from a large-scale MMOG, I think it would have to be a large-scale company who makes so much money that they could make up from the loses in case the idea doesn't come through. Blizzard has already crafted and perfected the old-generation MMOGs, which I consider to be linear by design - will their next MMO be same? I just highly doubt that they would make the same because then two of their games would then be in competition of one another.

In other words, I think it makes little sense to completely recycle the same success but instead look for a new crowd of MMOGer's who take on the role of games differently than the linear-played World of Warcraft.

What are your thoughts about it? 

I never played a Blizzard game that didn't have a rail roaded plot. And Morhaime said that the game will be close to Wow (at Blizzcon) so my bet is that we will see a "World of Diablo" soon.

For sandbox games your best bet seems to be Star vaults Mortal online right now.

Blizzard did 2 games that was very different from everything else, Diablo and Starcraft. But that was 10 years ago and everyone from the teams have quited by now, since then they have just did sequels and Wow, which mostly re used things from EQ. I kinda doubt that they will chanse on a sandbox game until they have seen one with potential first, Blizzard are aiming for the general gamer with their games, and have always done so. And right now the sandbox fans are kinda alternative gamers.

Many people on here say blizzard cant/wont do a SandBox MMO because its too niche and they wont take the risk.. well the MMO genre was a niche and blizzard made WoW... I dont have to tell you what happened next... Blizzard did it before, took a huge risk on a genre that was new to them and to most players... no reason they wont/cant do it again.

I'd bet a pound on blizzard marking an RTSMMO rather than a sandbox, but hey we'll have to wait and see.

 I pray the next-gen MMO that Blizzard currently working on is sandbox type, not another EQ clone. Blizzard proved their games are the best and if anyone could pull something extraordinary from sandbox MMO, its them.

Originally posted by chr1sm

Originally posted by Magnum2103

I don't think they are going to make any sandbox MMOs unless sandbox MMOs start becoming popular.  Then they'll copy all the good features of those sandbox MMOs, add a whole bunch of polish, fill it with loads of pop culture references and easter eggs, and make it cater a bit more to casual players.  That's Blizzard's typical MO.

 

So first a semi-popular sandbox MMO needs to come out.  I don't think Darkfall will be popular enough to catch Blizzard's eye.  Maybe the KOTOR MMO if it has enough sandbox elements.  The Fallout MMO is a more likely bet.

 

You have GOT to be kidding me.  Darkfall won't be "popular enough to catch Blizzard's eye".  How long has Darkfall been one of the top anticipated games on MMORPG.com and mind you that this is a CAREBEAR WEBSITE.

With games like DarFall, Mortal Online and Renaissance currently being developed or releasing on the horizon all referencing Ultima Online pre-trammel you can be SURE that "sandbox" games will become popular again. 

 I just love it when noobs like you come on here throwing the word "sandbox" around like they really know what their talking about.  You are absolutely totally CLUELESS of how different UO pre-trammel was and how people like me have waited 10 YEARS for a game like Darkfall to come out.  You my friend, have obviously NEVER played UO pre-trammel it is flat out obvious or you wouldn't have posted what you just did. UO was more than just a "sandbox"  Fallout 3 is a "sandbox",  UO pre-tramel was a World Simulator, and Darkfall is looking to be that as well.

People in the MMORPG industry that have never played UO pre-trammel stick out like green thumbs to us.   You have no concept of what a true MMORPG experience should be like and referencing abomination sanbdox games such as SWG and EVE will not score you any points.

Go back to the instanced, level based, treadmill theme park pit of hell that you came from.

If Blizzard is going to even ATTEMPT to create a Sandbox World SImulator, this will truly be a MASSIVE project and they will have to throw out everything that they've ever known.  Right now DarkFall is poised to be the most massive seamless world there is, with the size of their NON-INSTANCED world rumored to be the size of Germany.  Blizzard is the McDonalds of the MMORPG industry, spitting out garbage and hyping it up with marketing while people who don't know any better eat it all up as if it were filet mingon.  I have absolutely no faith that they would succeed at a sandbox MMO, they will probably just give sandboxes more of a bad name the way SWG and EVE have.

Sorry, I didn't realize my post was going to cause someone to snap.

I haven't even heard any mention of Blizzard considering Darkfall a threat to losing subscribers.  They were keeping eyes on AoC and Warhammer , but never heard any mention of Darkfall.  If you ask the average WoW gamer if they heard of Darkfall they will probably say no.  I'm not trying to bash the game or anything.  I do plan to try out Darkfall myself and I'm sure it will do well in it's niche if it's well designed.

There is huge buzz from everywhere about KOTOR even gaming communities that don't cater to hardcore gaming communities.  While it's still a long ways away, there already have been news articles about it on various sites that aren't even related to gaming.  An article was posted about it on Yahoo News front page a while ago.  The Bioware/Starwars fanbase is much larger than Adventurine's Darkfall fanbase.  The Bethesda/Fallout fanbase is huge too.

As far as my MMO experience goes I have played UO pre-trammel.  I was playing MUDs for almost 5 years before UO was even released.  Please don't make assumptions.

How is UO pre-trammel any less sandbox than Fallout 3?  While there is a linear path I can follow in Fallout 3 to get me to game's "end" yes, but I can pretty much go out and do anything I want.  I'm pretty sure I didn't even hear the term sandbox until GTA III, and there isn't a huge difference in non-linearity between Fallout 3 and GTA III (both have missions and an end, but you can run through the world and do whatever you want within the game rules).  If you want to make the agruement about what qualifies as sandbox and what doesn't, the only truely sandbox game right now is Second Life.

But anyway I digress, you can make a sandbox game that caters to the pre-trammel UO crowd, but it's never going to turn Blizzard's head and make them consider making a sandbox MMO themselves if you do.  The crowd simply isn't large enough.  Blizzard games appeal to both the casual and hardcore gamer (probably moreso to the casual which is a much larger group) and that's why they are successful.  That's why Darkfall is going to be niche (100-200k subscribers within a year is my best guess) and KOTOR and the Fallout MMO are going to be far more successful (assuming them are done well).

Why do people constantly have to attack the big guy?  What's wrong with McDonald's?  What's wrong with World of Warcraft?  If people really didn't like that "garbage" than they wouldn't buy it - great marketing or not.  Just because your tastes aren't the same as the majority's doesn't give you any right to insult them.

Originally posted by Ordero

...

The only question is, will it be an all-new IP, or will it be a licenced, existing one, the way WoW was gonna be Warhammer originally, til they lost the IP. 

I'm leaning toward the later, and predict there will eventually be the annoucment that "Blizzard is making an all new next-gen MMORPG based on the XXXXXX franchise (whatever that might be)" After all, why go to all the trouble of creating an all-new IP from scratch when there's several out there not yet clamied by other MMO developers.

Forgotten Realms maybe, by Blizzard, now that would be interesting :)

Blizzard is developing a new IP. They dont use non blizzard pre exising IP really. Blizzard already has the fan base and the experience as well as expectations of Blizzard made IPs, ones that are highly stylized and very marketable. They have been saying for awhile they want to add some more IPs to their big 3. They will reveal this IP in their next MMORPG, at least thats what my sources tell me (bliz employees). \

Blizzard has more to lose by using pre-existing IPs that are not their own. Forgotten Realms also unfortunatly is in the hands of Atari i believe (video game rights for D&D). 

We honestly do not know how much Blizzard will push the envelope in terms of their next MMORPGs design, but I have a feeling they will use their new IP to do something different but similar, going beyond what they did before with Wow.

Well they certainly have the money....

Every game blizzard makes is the best in the genre Diablo, Starcraft, Wow... So ofcourse they can do it :)

Blizzard could make a sand box game sure, but I doubt they will, because as others have stated the consumer base for that type of a game is too niche. You don't turn a massive profit like Blizz does by catering to a niche crowd, you do it by catering to the masses. That's just common business sense.

Also, Blizzard is a big company and a big company needs to turn a big profit in order to sustain itself and turn an even bigger profit in order to keep growing. Big companies tend to be rather conservative in their approach to what they do with their product and Blizzard is no exception. This is because they know that one failure is all it takes to put them and their parent company in the red and then they would be in serious trouble. This is why Indy devs are best for this sort of thing (sandbox games and playstyles), because they have less to loose and don't have the status larger companies do so they have to try harder to get their product noticed and make their name known. This allows them to be more willing to try things that would be considered high risk from a bigger companys perspective. After all why would a buyer want to play the game from the little company if its the same things as the one from the big company, and since the big company has more money their game is obviously recieving better care, or so the average consumer thinks. So the big guy just watches the little guy as he tinkers and trys different things and sees what works and what doesn't and then takes those things, or some variant of them and incorporates them into their own game in a manner that works for their clients and everyone loves them for it. Why? Because the big guy caters to the masses, and the masses have never heard of the little guy.

Originally posted by Cerza

Blizzard could make a sand box game sure, but I doubt they will, because as others have stated the consumer base for that type of a game is too niche. You don't turn a massive profit like Blizz does by catering to a niche crowd, you do it by catering to the masses. That's just common business sense.

Also, Blizzard is a big company and a big company needs to turn a big profit in order to sustain itself and turn an even bigger profit in order to keep growing. Big companies tend to be rather conservative in their approach to what they do with their product and Blizzard is no exception. This is because they know that one failure is all it takes to put them and their parent company in the red and then they would be in serious trouble. This is why Indy devs are best for this sort of thing (sandbox games and playstyles), because they have less to loose and don't have the status larger companies do so they have to try harder to get their product noticed and make their name known. This allows them to be more willing to try things that would be considered high risk from a bigger companys perspective. After all why would a buyer want to play the game from the little company if its the same things as the one from the big company, and since the big company has more money their game is obviously recieving better care, or so the average consumer thinks. So the big guy just watches the little guy as he tinkers and trys different things and sees what works and what doesn't and then takes those things, or some variant of them and incorporates them into their own game in a manner that works for their clients and everyone loves them for it. Why? Because the big guy caters to the masses, and the masses have never heard of the little guy.

As I Said before the comment that blizz wont make a sandbox because its too niche is short sighted, MMOs were niche and blizzard spent about 5 years amd millions of $ making WoW. why wont they do it again?
 

WoW grew the MMO genre like no other game, no reason a sandbox game by blizzard wont do the same.

Originally posted by coffee

Originally posted by Cerza

Blizzard could make a sand box game sure, but I doubt they will, because as others have stated the consumer base for that type of a game is too niche. You don't turn a massive profit like Blizz does by catering to a niche crowd, you do it by catering to the masses. That's just common business sense.

Also, Blizzard is a big company and a big company needs to turn a big profit in order to sustain itself and turn an even bigger profit in order to keep growing. Big companies tend to be rather conservative in their approach to what they do with their product and Blizzard is no exception. This is because they know that one failure is all it takes to put them and their parent company in the red and then they would be in serious trouble. This is why Indy devs are best for this sort of thing (sandbox games and playstyles), because they have less to loose and don't have the status larger companies do so they have to try harder to get their product noticed and make their name known. This allows them to be more willing to try things that would be considered high risk from a bigger companys perspective. After all why would a buyer want to play the game from the little company if its the same things as the one from the big company, and since the big company has more money their game is obviously recieving better care, or so the average consumer thinks. So the big guy just watches the little guy as he tinkers and trys different things and sees what works and what doesn't and then takes those things, or some variant of them and incorporates them into their own game in a manner that works for their clients and everyone loves them for it. Why? Because the big guy caters to the masses, and the masses have never heard of the little guy.

As I Said before the comment that blizz wont make a sandbox because its too niche is short sighted, MMOs were niche and blizzard spent about 5 years amd millions of $ making WoW. why wont they do it again?
 

WoW grew the MMO genre like no other game, no reason a sandbox game by blizzard wont do the same.

Bliz makes no distinction between a niche market or not, they get people into it regardless. Isometric games have become fairly niche, yet they are repopularizing them with Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2. Bliz has the balls to take risks only when they feel comfortable with them. WoW was a test, their first venture into mmorpgs..and they have become SO rich from it, and learned so much, they can take bigger chances and allow a bigger budget in which to do something different but right.

Lest we forget, the Diablo-genre was also very much a niche-genre when Blizzard decided to take a chance with it. For those who are not familiar with the concept, I'm talking about the Rogue-like genre of games, one of the oldest genres in gaming actually: text-based dungeon-crawls using simple ASCII graphics to represent the gameworld, but with alot of complexity in it's gameplay (much of which was taken out and simplified for Diablo actually), especially games like Nethack and Adom, games still in (more or less active) development, and free to download btw, go check them out, you might get hooked :)

Anyhow, back to the topic, just saying that Blizzard are no strangers to taking niche or fringe-genres, polishing them up, giving them a new graphical interface, and in the process making them more accessible/simplified (depending on your perspective) and making popular/casual and playable games out of them, so who knows what could do with the sandbox-MMO genre if they put their minds to it!

Originally posted by Ordero

Lest we forget, the Diablo-genre was also very much a niche-genre when Blizzard decided to take a chance with it. For those who are not familiar with the concept, I'm talking about the Rogue-like genre of games, one of the oldest genres in gaming actually: text-based dungeon-crawls using simple ASCII graphics to represent the gameworld, but with alot of complexity in it's gameplay (much of which was taken out and simplified for Diablo actually), especially games like Nethack and Adom, games still in (more or less active) development, and free to download btw, go check them out, you might get hooked :)

Anyhow, back to the topic, just saying that Blizzard are no strangers to taking niche or fringe-genres, polishing them up, giving them a new graphical interface, and in the process making them more accessible/simplified (depending on your perspective) and making popular/casual and playable games out of them, so who knows what could do with the sandbox-MMO genre if they put their minds to it!

 

Diablo a niche genre ? The series sold over 2 million which during that time is outstanding. Diablo 3 will probably out sell many mmos when it releases. I think Blizzard can pull of any type of game and be successfull. Though in one of their lates interviews they have stated they are hoping that WOW still goes strong while they release their new mmo.

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Originally posted by Ordero

Lest we forget, the Diablo-genre was also very much a niche-genre when Blizzard decided to take a chance with it. For those who are not familiar with the concept, I'm talking about the Rogue-like genre of games, one of the oldest genres in gaming actually: text-based dungeon-crawls using simple ASCII graphics to represent the gameworld, but with alot of complexity in it's gameplay (much of which was taken out and simplified for Diablo actually), especially games like Nethack and Adom, games still in (more or less active) development, and free to download btw, go check them out, you might get hooked :)

Anyhow, back to the topic, just saying that Blizzard are no strangers to taking niche or fringe-genres, polishing them up, giving them a new graphical interface, and in the process making them more accessible/simplified (depending on your perspective) and making popular/casual and playable games out of them, so who knows what could do with the sandbox-MMO genre if they put their minds to it!

 

 

Diablo a niche genre ? The series sold over 2 million which during that time is outstanding. Diablo 3 will probably out sell many mmos when it releases. I think Blizzard can pull of any type of game and be successfull. Though in one of their lates interviews they have stated they are hoping that WOW still goes strong while they release their new mmo.

Ordero was proving that Blizzard has the balls to venture into niche markets and end up with a hit. The isometric RPG genre was niche before Diablo came out, then Blizz hit it big and it became popular. The same thing happened with WoW. MMOs were a niche market with only a couple million players before WoW, but Blizz popularized it. The point is that they are not scared to enter niche markets, and on the occasions that htey have done so, the market ended up bigger.