WoW killer?? From what I understand the game is struggling so badly to get subs that it may end up being f2p by the time it is actually released in the US........

No MMO will kill WoW, or even have the title of "Destroyer of WoW".

WoW is killing its own self slowly, and it will keep killing itself (by casual-oriented game design) until 10mil subs become 500k subs. And thats when new interesting MMOs will have the balls to come up to the surface and encourage anything thats not so WoW-like.

2 cents

Just goes to show just how hard it must be to produce a game, develop it and exacute the process smoothly. I just don't appreciate the difficulty but nobody seems to be able to do it so it must be really difficult. But this is a game I have been watching for a good while with a community that is reasonable. The game seems to have  the characteristics that I am looking for.

Thinking person's game that is really skill based and requires planning and some strat.

Not gear centric, I dont have to have uber armor and gear from raiding 5months to go to the next tier of dungeons. But drops still mean something with the sigils

Mobs that have good ai

4 or a few people groups that u can do everything in the game (I still have nightmares of 40 man raids and the bull that goes with that) with.

Graphics that are really good

We will see about crafting, not sure about that

I really think after reading, watching videos that you could enjoy the evening solo or grouped.

PVP or PVE whatever I wanted at the time.

I just wish Acclaim would get it together and the EU's would get it together and we could just play the son of a gun, and yesterday>>>>But no matter what  I as long as it is released in the states  am going to play it.

Originally posted by xenageo

Haha! Now read why. WoW-Killer by definition does not mean a game that will put WoW out of business.

Its impossible, games like Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, EQ2, DAOC, Diablo/2, Starcraft (the list goes on) of timeless online gaming classics. Servers will always be hosted and a game like WoW that has exceeded all of its predecessors will never be "slain"

So right, to what a WoW-killer IS. A wow-killer is a game that is as good, if not better than WoW. Currently WoW is the most popular MMO on the market, this isn't because WoW is so extraordinary, but  it is fun and playable.

Fun and playable are crucial elements of any game, but WoW certainly is lacking in numerous areas, with vast room for improvement.

The grandeur of being a "WoW-Killer" has nothing to do with my desire to watch another game die, however, it is out of my excitement for what the next generation of MMOs offer that I would promote a game as the WoW-KILLER.

And The Chronicles of Spellborn is it. Everything about this game is vastly superior to competing MMOs. Graphics, Music, Questing, Combat both PvE and PvP.  So many MMOs struggle with balancing economies and character stats, item stats etc.. Spellborn drops the archaic d20 models for fresh new approaches to fantasy lore and game mechanics. \

So flame all you want, this post is bait, but the game will be released soon so keep yours eyes open!

No, actually WoW-killer means that it beats wow in sub numbers. 

Originally posted by TheHavok

No, actually WoW-killer means that it beats wow in sub numbers. 

not really

and frankly the current mmo scene came in with WOW, so as veteran MMO players have to listen to all you noobies talk about how the mmo scene was created by wow, and that everyone coppied wow (even though most of the elements were actually taken from other games) you guys continue to think you dominate with your opinions and your sub #s

honestly wow maybe top dog in sub #s, but its far , and I mean VERY FAR from being on of the elite mmos ever created.

and that goes to say the same for the people who subscribe to it , WOW was the worst thing that ever happened to mmos, plain n simple

Originally posted by Vinterkrig

Originally posted by TheHavok

No, actually WoW-killer means that it beats wow in sub numbers. 

 

not really

and frankly the current mmo scene came in with WOW, so as veteran MMO players have to listen to all you noobies talk about how the mmo scene was created by wow, and that everyone coppied wow (even though most of the elements were actually taken from other games) you guys continue to think you dominate with your opinions and your sub #s

honestly wow maybe top dog in sub #s, but its far , and I mean VERY FAR from being on of the elite mmos ever created.

and that goes to say the same for the people who subscribe to it , WOW was the worst thing that ever happened to mmos, plain n simple

Such a typical response, making huge assumptions and generalizations even though all I said was "No, actually WoW-killer means that it beats wow in sub numbers." 

Find me a single post...ONE POST where a player says WoW created the mmo scene or as you put it "all you noobies talk about how the mmo scene was created by wow, and that everyone coppied wow". Also, how are you able to tell what is the best game when so many of these games are based on preference to things like fantasy, sci-fi, pvp oriented, pve oriented, open world, sandbox, ect.  I dont like Sci-Fi, but I recognize that Eve is a great game.  To say that a WoW-killer game is a game that is better then WoW is not possible unless you have a tangible benchmark to rate it.  So far there are three benchmarks:  Ratings from video game reviewers and fans, current sub numbers, and highest sub numbers reached.

WoW wasn't my first MMO.  It isn't my current MMO, but I played it and I know its a great game.

Also you said that "WOW was the worst thing that ever happened to mmos, plain n simple". What a stupid statement.  WoW helped bring in TONS of people to the mmorpg market.  Of course there was a steady stream of new players coming before WoW, but WoW definitely helped bring a ton of exposure to the mmorpg gaming world .  This also lead to more and more people wanting to make mmorpgs which is definitely a good thing for this community.

Originally posted by Vinterkrig

Originally posted by TheHavok

No, actually WoW-killer means that it beats wow in sub numbers. 

 

not really

and frankly the current mmo scene came in with WOW, so as veteran MMO players have to listen to all you noobies talk about how the mmo scene was created by wow, and that everyone coppied wow (even though most of the elements were actually taken from other games) you guys continue to think you dominate with your opinions and your sub #s what is all these about vet players and noobs?  You are a vet and all WoW players are noob? get off your high horse, you are just as much a nobody as anyone here is on this message board.

honestly wow maybe top dog in sub #s, but its far , and I mean VERY FAR from being on of the elite mmos ever created.  what is an elite MMO?  who define it? you? oh great, you call yourself a vet MMO player and start defining elite MMOs.  so the words vet and elite makes you feel tall?  you must be a dwarf in real life.  go buy some hi heel shoes, you feel taller right away

and that goes to say the same for the people who subscribe to it , WOW was the worst thing that ever happened to mmos, plain n simple  why is it the worst thing ever happened to mmos? from a vet to defining elite mmos, you are now talking on behalf of the entire MMO industry?  wake up, you are nobody and you speaks for no one but yourself

You need to buy a mirror and take a look at it.  Do you see the words vet and elite floating on top of that face in the mirror?  If you do, get your brain examined, fast.
 

Originally posted by xenageo

I clearly stated my definition of "WoW-Killer" to be any game that provides superior gameplay and mechanics to WoW. TCoS is that game. how is a gameplay superior, what measures do u have in objectively assessing the quality of game mechanics?  TCoS that game TO YOU.  Period.  Your argument stops at you, meaning, its just a personal taste.

Just as the millions of people who buy britney spears cds are not music connoisseurs, millions of WoW players are hardly gaming connoisseurs. You decide who the millions of players are, you know them?

Killing WoW has nothing to do with population and everything to do with releasing and developing a better game.  Releasing the best game on earth (in your view) and playing it solo at your own home will kill WoW?  Interesting argument, how does it kill WoW?  WoW dies or not die?  If WoW lives how does TCoS kill WoW, or actually what does TCoS kill so far, wih practically no community, empty servers and .... I think it kills your sense of reasoning.

As for the people who say this thread is useless, my original intention for making this thread is to generate activity in the tcos forums, so thank you for stopping by 8)  Oh yeah, you just confirmed to me that at least one of the player of TCoS makes no sense talking or presenting his case, which adds weight to my doubt that there is good community left in this ghost server game.  Your effort pays off.

Its funny to note that the promoters of this game, like the OP here, is actually doing a bad job presenting the game, while the sceptic crowds make a great job detailing the strength and weakness of the game.

Wooo.. The OP mentioned Legends of Kesmai.. The greatest game ever created.

You read about some of TCoS' features, and you think "WOW, that sounds cool!"

Then you play the game, and the "WOW" is instant-killed.

Of course this is the WOW-killer, no doubt about it.

Using advice found on the net, I managed to get my hands on a free trial.  I realized I had wasted my time as soon as I entered the game.

The graphics are, in my opinion, not as good as many people boast.  The graphics are equivalent to WoW, only with a "Tim Burton" twist on things.

I don't quite understand what the purpose of the game is.  And I really didn't invest a lot of time playing it.  But just at character creation, for example, you not only choose your toon's appearance, but you also choose the armor your toon will wear.  I realize the armor is aesthetic, but is that how your character will look from the time you start playing the game until end-game?

And please don't nag me about armor.  EVERYONE wants to get a new piece of armor, whether it be for stats, or for how cool it looks, or a combination of the two.

Armor is, as far as i know, the only VISUAL way to show that you are progressing in the game (unless you have a floaty name with your level tacked on to it).  Your character advances in skill or rank or level, you get access to better armor.  Did I miss something, or does TCOS not offer this?

And the amazing new revolutionary combat system, isn't really all that amazing.  It's very easy and basically holds the player's hand.  It basically puts all of your skills into defined slots, which can only be accessed in a certain order.  Well... don't we - in many of the games we play - already use our skills in a specific order?  What's new about this?  It's basically a pretty, revolving action bar that holds the ALT/SHIFT/CTRL button for you (in the sense of accessing your skills from alternate action bars assigned the ALT/SHIFT/CTRL keys.  I don't literally mean that the TCOS's action bar holds those keys).

I don't know, take what I say for what it's worth.  The above are just my personal opinions and my personal experience.  I had hoped, a couple years ago when I first read about this game, that it would be great.  But when I finally got the chance to play, I was quickly disappointed.

Originally posted by xiirot

Using advice found on the net, I managed to get my hands on a free trial.  I realized I had wasted my time as soon as I entered the game.

The graphics are, in my opinion, not as good as many people boast.  The graphics are equivalent to WoW, only with a "Tim Burton" twist on things.

I don't quite understand what the purpose of the game is.  And I really didn't invest a lot of time playing it.  But just at character creation, for example, you not only choose your toon's appearance, but you also choose the armor your toon will wear.  I realize the armor is aesthetic, but is that how your character will look from the time you start playing the game until end-game?

And please don't nag me about armor.  EVERYONE wants to get a new piece of armor, whether it be for stats, or for how cool it looks, or a combination of the two.

Armor is, as far as i know, the only VISUAL way to show that you are progressing in the game (unless you have a floaty name with your level tacked on to it).  Your character advances in skill or rank or level, you get access to better armor.  Did I miss something, or does TCOS not offer this?

Before you start to complain too much about this, know that you can upgrade your visual appearance. You find lots of visual upgrades and many are only available at higher levels. So that's about 2/3 of your dissapointment gone right there. *POOF*

And the amazing new revolutionary combat system, isn't really all that amazing.  It's very easy and basically holds the player's hand.  It basically puts all of your skills into defined slots, which can only be accessed in a certain order.  Well... don't we - in many of the games we play - already use our skills in a specific order?  What's new about this?  It's basically a pretty, revolving action bar that holds the ALT/SHIFT/CTRL button for you (in the sense of accessing your skills from alternate action bars assigned the ALT/SHIFT/CTRL keys.  I don't literally mean that the TCOS's action bar holds those keys).

You said yourself that you didn't play much. How much did you tweak your deck? How did your abilities with long cooldowns fit into your rotation? What particular debuff did your primary rotation focus on? How well did your primary rotation leverage your debuff with abilities that exploit that weakness? As your primary rotation was buffing yourself how did it benefit you? Were you able to effectively exploit that benefit to your advantage in any way? Did you have ranged attack chain? Did that ranged attack chain typically end at the desired point in your melee chain? If not, did you find a good way to start your melee attack chain at the appropraite place aligned with the end of your ranged chain?

The revolutionary combat system does not start nor stop with the rotating skill bar. Mobility, dodging, and the enemy AI all contribute. You won't see this quite as much fighting a wolf or a bear, but humanoids can be rather devious in their attack style.

I don't know, take what I say for what it's worth.  The above are just my personal opinions and my personal experience.  I had hoped, a couple years ago when I first read about this game, that it would be great.  But when I finally got the chance to play, I was quickly disappointed.

Obviously nobody can force you to like it, but it doesn't sound like you gave the game much of a chance. There are certainly some aesthetic differences that hit you right from the start. Static NPC's, a rather quiet and overly serene setting, not much NPC activity, stunted animations. Do you think those were effecting your impressions? I know they did mine, but I also played it enough to see past these differences and saw the potential of the game and its unique take on standard MMOG features.

To answer many of your questions: I still feel that the deck is nothing more than a glorified action bar, but that's just my opinion.  The appropriate order for casting/using any skills could be accomplished in the same manner as having multiple action bars in the UI.  All the deck does is limit your access to your skills, which I feel is not good.  I guess I'm old fashioned.

Another factor was that the game was desolate, aside from NPCs.  And I'm just not a PvE-questing type of player, which is all the game appears to offer since there were no other players.  There must be a reason it is so desolate?

Originally posted by xiirot

To answer many of your questions: I still feel that the deck is nothing more than a glorified action bar, but that's just my opinion.  The appropriate order for casting/using any skills could be accomplished in the same manner as having multiple action bars in the UI.  All the deck does is limit your access to your skills, which I feel is not good.  I guess I'm old fashioned.

I hear this one pretty often. The rotating doodad IS a glorified action bar and its not even that glorious. Its just one more way to limit resources. In the end its not entirely different than global cooldowns (rotation time), limited mana bars, or the myriad of abilities that most games use that have some kind of unlock based on some event like an enemy's dodge or some kind of ability combination. Its mostly just 'different' and a lot of people don't adjust well.

What the rotating doodad accomplishes is to simplify the interface. It lets me play the game with nothing more than WASD and the mouse. I can focus on WHAT I am doing rather than HOW I do it. Also, the deck building is a nice out of combat distraction while I tweak and modify my tactics.

Another factor was that the game was desolate, aside from NPCs.  And I'm just not a PvE-questing type of player, which is all the game appears to offer since there were no other players.  There must be a reason it is so desolate?

It is definitely a PvE questing game, so it may not be your kind of game. I wouldn't read too much into the population. The game was released in a half assed manner to 2% of the world with 6 servers and no marketting what so ever. I feel bad for the people in those released regions because in the end they will be left with low pop servers while the rest of the world is fine.

I'll give it another try when it hits the US. 

Originally posted by xiirot

Using advice found on the net, I managed to get my hands on a free trial.  I realized I had wasted my time as soon as I entered the game.

The graphics are, in my opinion, not as good as many people boast.  The graphics are equivalent to WoW, only with a "Tim Burton" twist on things.

Only thing that you said that is reasonable. Cause it is the only thing that has an opinion attached to it

I don't quite understand what the purpose of the game is.  And I really didn't invest a lot of time playing it.  But just at character creation, for example, you not only choose your toon's appearance, but you also choose the armor your toon will wear.  I realize the armor is aesthetic, but is that how your character will look from the time you start playing the game until end-game?

I am quite aware you don't know the purpose. Time playing is evident by your comments.

And please don't nag me about armor.  EVERYONE wants to get a new piece of armor, whether it be for stats, or for how cool it looks, or a combination of the two.

? Your point?

Armor is, as far as i know, the only VISUAL way to show that you are progressing in the game (unless you have a floaty name with your level tacked on to it).  Your character advances in skill or rank or level, you get access to better armor.  Did I miss something, or does TCOS not offer this?

Yes you get need armor and some sets that change your appearence but not your abilities. That is what i like the most. You have to be able to play not grind with buddies in an instance to have 10000 more mana than anyone else.

And the amazing new revolutionary combat system, isn't really all that amazing.  It's very easy and basically holds the player's hand.  It basically puts all of your skills into defined slots, which can only be accessed in a certain order.  Well... don't we - in many of the games we play - already use our skills in a specific order?  What's new about this?  It's basically a pretty, revolving action bar that holds the ALT/SHIFT/CTRL button for you (in the sense of accessing your skills from alternate action bars assigned the ALT/SHIFT/CTRL keys.  I don't literally mean that the TCOS's action bar holds those keys).

 You actually don't understand the concept. The rotating bar with aiming and movements adds a layer of stratergy and planning to the game that no other game imo has.  Maybe Guild Wars to a point but that is not really the same either cause it is not just the deck but how u set it up and how  familar  u are to change how u play on the run in a fight. Plus the order of how u lay it out is all important to make u click less and aim more.  You got to plan and really know your char to be successful.

I don't know, take what I say for what it's worth.  The above are just my personal opinions and my personal experience.  I had hoped, a couple years ago when I first read about this game, that it would be great.  But when I finally got the chance to play, I was quickly disappointed.

This game has a deep level of understanding needed and thought. it is not cookie cutter. Your opinion is not well thought out nor is it even remotely complete.

 

Keeping these things in mind I am glad you will give it another go.

Originally posted by Koen83

Originally posted by xiirot

Using advice found on the net, I managed to get my hands on a free trial.  I realized I had wasted my time as soon as I entered the game.

The graphics are, in my opinion, not as good as many people boast.  The graphics are equivalent to WoW, only with a "Tim Burton" twist on things.

Only thing that you said that is reasonable. Cause it is the only thing that has an opinion attached to it

I don't quite understand what the purpose of the game is.  And I really didn't invest a lot of time playing it.  But just at character creation, for example, you not only choose your toon's appearance, but you also choose the armor your toon will wear.  I realize the armor is aesthetic, but is that how your character will look from the time you start playing the game until end-game?

I am quite aware you don't know the purpose. Time playing is evident by your comments.

And please don't nag me about armor.  EVERYONE wants to get a new piece of armor, whether it be for stats, or for how cool it looks, or a combination of the two.

? Your point?

Armor is, as far as i know, the only VISUAL way to show that you are progressing in the game (unless you have a floaty name with your level tacked on to it).  Your character advances in skill or rank or level, you get access to better armor.  Did I miss something, or does TCOS not offer this?

Yes you get need armor and some sets that change your appearence but not your abilities. That is what i like the most. You have to be able to play not grind with buddies in an instance to have 10000 more mana than anyone else.

And the amazing new revolutionary combat system, isn't really all that amazing.  It's very easy and basically holds the player's hand.  It basically puts all of your skills into defined slots, which can only be accessed in a certain order.  Well... don't we - in many of the games we play - already use our skills in a specific order?  What's new about this?  It's basically a pretty, revolving action bar that holds the ALT/SHIFT/CTRL button for you (in the sense of accessing your skills from alternate action bars assigned the ALT/SHIFT/CTRL keys.  I don't literally mean that the TCOS's action bar holds those keys).

 You actually don't understand the concept. The rotating bar with aiming and movements adds a layer of stratergy and planning to the game that no other game imo has.  Maybe Guild Wars to a point but that is not really the same either cause it is not just the deck but how u set it up and how  familar  u are to change how u play on the run in a fight. Plus the order of how u lay it out is all important to make u click less and aim more.  You got to plan and really know your char to be successful.

I don't know, take what I say for what it's worth.  The above are just my personal opinions and my personal experience.  I had hoped, a couple years ago when I first read about this game, that it would be great.  But when I finally got the chance to play, I was quickly disappointed.

This game has a deep level of understanding needed and thought. it is not cookie cutter. Your opinion is not well thought out nor is it even remotely complete.

 

Keeping these things in mind I am glad you will give it another go.

 

I apologize if my opinion angered you. It seems it is impossible for everyone to share the same opinion, and as such, anger is bound to present itself.

Heh....you should check out the Acclaim boards.

Half the population (about 34 people I think) are complaining about Acclaims pathetic release...or lack of one.

The other half are complaining about the complainers....which is actually quite pathetic if one actually thinks about it.

It's quite commical to read all of the flames there.  No differing of opinions allowed.

Originally posted by xiirot

Originally posted by Koen83

Originally posted by xiirot

Using advice found on the net, I managed to get my hands on a free trial.  I realized I had wasted my time as soon as I entered the game.

The graphics are, in my opinion, not as good as many people boast.  The graphics are equivalent to WoW, only with a "Tim Burton" twist on things.

Only thing that you said that is reasonable. Cause it is the only thing that has an opinion attached to it

I don't quite understand what the purpose of the game is.  And I really didn't invest a lot of time playing it.  But just at character creation, for example, you not only choose your toon's appearance, but you also choose the armor your toon will wear.  I realize the armor is aesthetic, but is that how your character will look from the time you start playing the game until end-game?

I am quite aware you don't know the purpose. Time playing is evident by your comments.

And please don't nag me about armor.  EVERYONE wants to get a new piece of armor, whether it be for stats, or for how cool it looks, or a combination of the two.

? Your point?

Armor is, as far as i know, the only VISUAL way to show that you are progressing in the game (unless you have a floaty name with your level tacked on to it).  Your character advances in skill or rank or level, you get access to better armor.  Did I miss something, or does TCOS not offer this?

Yes you get need armor and some sets that change your appearence but not your abilities. That is what i like the most. You have to be able to play not grind with buddies in an instance to have 10000 more mana than anyone else.

And the amazing new revolutionary combat system, isn't really all that amazing.  It's very easy and basically holds the player's hand.  It basically puts all of your skills into defined slots, which can only be accessed in a certain order.  Well... don't we - in many of the games we play - already use our skills in a specific order?  What's new about this?  It's basically a pretty, revolving action bar that holds the ALT/SHIFT/CTRL button for you (in the sense of accessing your skills from alternate action bars assigned the ALT/SHIFT/CTRL keys.  I don't literally mean that the TCOS's action bar holds those keys).

 You actually don't understand the concept. The rotating bar with aiming and movements adds a layer of stratergy and planning to the game that no other game imo has.  Maybe Guild Wars to a point but that is not really the same either cause it is not just the deck but how u set it up and how  familar  u are to change how u play on the run in a fight. Plus the order of how u lay it out is all important to make u click less and aim more.  You got to plan and really know your char to be successful.

I don't know, take what I say for what it's worth.  The above are just my personal opinions and my personal experience.  I had hoped, a couple years ago when I first read about this game, that it would be great.  But when I finally got the chance to play, I was quickly disappointed.

This game has a deep level of understanding needed and thought. it is not cookie cutter. Your opinion is not well thought out nor is it even remotely complete.

 

Keeping these things in mind I am glad you will give it another go.

 

I apologize if my opinion angered you. It seems it is impossible for everyone to share the same opinion, and as such, anger is bound to present itself.

Forgive me if I write angry, that was not my intent.

I don't know where you would get anger from.  I think it was very Vulcan like, if you get my drift. Your opinion was that the game was terrible in essence and I simply stated that based on what you said it does not seem to me that you understand the concept of the game mechanics. I think you played the game with the previous MMOs or games you have played in mind rather than the new concepts of TCoS. These were meant to be statements by me and you may dispute them in conversation if you wish. If I am wrong please tell me why I am. I am happy that will give it a go again and I hope you leave other game concepts behind when u do so that u may see TCoS as a new and inovative system.

Originally posted by japo

Heh....you should check out the Acclaim boards.

 

Half the population (about 34 people I think) are complaining about Acclaims pathetic release...or lack of one.

 

The other half are complaining about the complainers....which is actually quite pathetic if one actually thinks about it.

 

It's quite commical to read all of the flames there.  No differing of opinions allowed.

I marvel at the concept that a difference of opinion automatically means that someone is a flamer. When one has a difference in opinion we are obliqued to present a coherent set of statements that try to present facts to back up our conclusion. There are many people who seem unable to do this. To point out that a person does not present his argument in a convincing way is not a flame but a retort. And sometimes retorts are sharp like a knife because they are revealing. You call it flaming I call it lively debate.

Like in your above post...could you tell me where you got your information of 34 people from? Is that an opinion or is that a fact?