Originally posted by Ihmotepp

The problem is everyone has a different threshold and criteria for what is "immersion breaking".

For example, some people whine and complain about zone transitions. Oh, if I have to zone it breaks my immersion, i want a seamless world, that's more immersive, blah, blah, blah.

Zoning doesn't break my immersion at all. If it helps wiith lag, then I'll zone no problem.

That is in no way a problem. In fact it's one of the reasons forums exist so we all can share our different view points/opinions and discus them with each other
 

I 100% agree OP. My first and favorite MMO was Star Wars Galaxies, and NOTHING has come close to delivering that "living in a virtual world" feeling that that game provided. It was amazing how much more fun it made the game when the ability to feel like you were your character was so fluent.

It absolutely amazes me that this genre has been completely flooded by the single player gamers who come here and demand that MMOs be turned more into single player games. It is the exact opposite of what an MMO should be, and these people are demanding they become it. There is every other genre out there for these people to get their "hack n' slash, gimme now!" cravings yet for some reason they need MMOs to deliver it too? Dumbfounding.

Anyway, I also think the "virtual world" experience encourages other aspects of gaming that some usually wouldn't touch. I don't consider myself a role player in the least bit, yet in SWG I found myself doing things that would be considered "roleplaying" without even thinking about it, because it just came natural with the surrounding enviroment. And even though I'm usually a "hack n' slash" combat oriented person, I found that I really did enjoy things like player run economies, player housing and cities, and crafting. I feel that many people that haven't experience features like these, may assume they don't like them because they aren't that type of player, but would probably find they do enjoy them if they were available.

Originally posted by Abrahmm

I 100% agree OP. My first and favorite MMO was Star Wars Galaxies, and NOTHING has come close to delivering that "living in a virtual world" feeling that that game provided. It was amazing how much more fun it made the game when the ability to feel like you were your character was so fluent.

Maybe my standards are too high but I quit SWG mainly because it did not make me feel that I was "living in a virtual world".  The sandbox in SWG was way too limited and artificial.  Once you reached a certain point there was no real growth and the best you could do was fake it that you were not spinning in place. 

This is probably one of the reasons why I like WoW so much.  It is very honest about what it is about and does not pretend to be a fake living virtual world. 

Originally posted by firefly2003

Originally posted by Moaky07

Eccoton...

That is all that is ever heard at MMORPG.com anymore.... "we want the PRECioUs" or "we want sandboxes". If you suggest you like something other than those 2, then you get ripped apart by the same core of posters around here. Again and again. I never see fellow "sandboxers'  stepping up, and lambasting the loud mouth portion of your gaming style.

Oh thats right....most the time it appears that is how the far majority act,

Some of us are sick of seeing it...the same post reworded over and over and over. We are also sick of being called shill/fanboi/ADD/etc cause we dont agree with sandbox play,

Not that hearing the same thing repeated time and again wasnt enough, now we are getting hit with "guilt trips" cause we dont wanna support sandbox games.  Or better yet....want them to include sandbox in our directed content games to give these sandbox folks access to all games coming out.

Suuuuuure thing.

I wouldnt want my gaming style altered much/any to accomodate the small faction of "sandboxers" as it is. Then when you consider there will be folks from this MMORPG.com crowd there as well makes it an even easier call for me.

That call is to keep "sandbox" games away from directed content if I have my say. The tradeskillers can stay on unemployment...or come hunt dragons/storm space stations/whatever just like the majority of gamers.

There is enough conforming to the minority in the real world...sure as hell dont need it in gaming AFAIAC....especially when the styles dont mix in the first place. And it isnt just the game styles...IMO the folks that play such styles really arent compatible either...as demonstrated on these forums daily,

If you like directed content play single player games perhaps? Bad enough most MMOs suck now , even though they make them for your kind of playstyle but the problem is most of you dont stick with a MMO for very long you , play for a couple of months , pack up and go off to taint another MMO in development with your "Casual , mass appeal, we are more important  rehetorhic ..." and the cycle continues , maybe it isnt the games , maybe its the type of players we have in MMOs now, lazy, gimme gimme  gimme, we want have fun and damn everyone else wanting a challenge, we want easy , simple , and accesible , 2 months later your crying and whining cause you have nothing to do.......

Um unless you missed the news pal, it isnt gamers like myself that need to find a game to play.

That, for the totally oblivious(which you appear to be by your post), would be the sandbox crowd. As in "YOU NEED TO FIND A GAME TO PLAY IN THE FIRST PLACE".

I havent found a game I like to replace EQ yet as my game to play. So dont put things like AoC on me as "my" game. And it sure didnt fail due to being a PVE, or content laden world.

AoC- supposed to be a PvP crowd game. It isnt even about the PVE content which I favor. I quit buying big name MMOs cause sick of wasting my money. So I sat out this one. Great call on my part. I dont mind paying if I decide to play a few months. It is hard though when a game launches without content, and lacking polish as the various msg brds indicated.

WAR- I am unsure if is PvP, but pretty sure this one had problems as well.

Tabula Rasa-Hold on I am still laughing. OK...hit the forums...I didnt play so I couldnt tell ya about the tons of problems with this one.

Come to think of it, I dont remember any game since WOW that has brought both polish and content to the playing field. Oh wait...I forgot...LoTRO did just that. Kind of strange it has good numbers, and was just voted game of the year. /sarcasm off

Bottom line....games like AoC knew they had only one chance to get it right at launch...and they didnt. That they didnt live up to expectations doesnt surprise me in the least.

Just cause folks may screw it up, doesnt factor in the debate of what does better gaming wise(DIrected content or sandbox). 

It is widely accepted that a game that is a PVE -content laden-loot centric-linear progression is going to have the best chance to grab a wide audience in North America than any other specific playstyle. I happen to not only agree with it, I really dont see anything to discount it out there in NA. Someone might say EVE....but I put that more on the PVP crowd.

The only thing that will really enhance PVE  is to include PvP as well. That is as long as PvP isnt the focus for class balance.  It has been my observation, that devs run into problems when they do balance characters for things like batttlefield play.

What isnt going to enhance the PVE game I listed is Uncle Owen. Instead he is going to distract PVE folks by needing to funnel them to give Pink-Panty-Owen his content selling gear.

Originally posted by Moaky07

 

Um unless you missed the news pal, it isnt gamers like myself that need to find a game to play.

That, for the totally oblivious(which you appear to be by your post), would be the sandbox crowd. As in "YOU NEED TO FIND A GAME TO PLAY IN THE FIRST PLACE".

Perhaps you misunderstood my topic, I was not talking about sandbox games, I was/am talking about a virtual experiance, of course it could be sandbox, but it's more in line for me towards a open world with freedom of play and not forced towards only one type of play: Combat roles.

I havent found a game I like to replace EQ yet as my game to play. So dont put things like AoC on me as "my" game. And it sure didnt fail due to being a PVE, or content laden world.

AoC- supposed to be a PvP crowd game. It isnt even about the PVE content which I favor. I quit buying big name MMOs cause sick of wasting my money. So I sat out this one. Great call on my part. I dont mind paying if I decide to play a few months. It is hard though when a game launches without content, and lacking polish as the various msg brds indicated.

I thought to have found my niche in AoC untill they marked all resource nods on the map , that aside, it was to much of a game to be called a MMORPG for me and my personal playstyle towards MMORPG's.

WAR- I am unsure if is PvP, but pretty sure this one had problems as well.

Again for me too much game and not much MMORPG

Tabula Rasa-Hold on I am still laughing. OK...hit the forums...I didnt play so I couldnt tell ya about the tons of problems with this one.

If only the NGE came with that combat system I bet the game would be fine since.....

I actually enjoyed Tabula Rasa, it had many things going for it, but it missed about everything that I would consider to be placed into the catergory of MMORPG, okay it was a MMO but it ended there, I really wished they added more traditional MMORPG feature's, like I said put TR's combat/animations into SWG and that game could really life again...... 

Come to think of it, I dont remember any game since WOW that has brought both polish and content to the playing field. Oh wait...I forgot...LoTRO did just that. Kind of strange it has good numbers, and was just voted game of the year. /sarcasm off

I agree on that, WOW did/does many things good for allot of people so no ignoring that, again try to remember that WE WANT POLISH AND CONTENT TOO. Do you think I aplaud SOE for pre-cu with the content they provided.....hmmm what content.......we the player provided that for the most part, of course thanks to many feature's implimented back then.

Bottom line....games like AoC knew they had only one chance to get it right at launch...and they didnt. That they didnt live up to expectations doesnt surprise me in the least.

I honostly believe no game ever will life up to anyone's expectations, but I am postive there will be games to be enjoyed. Keping expectations high is good.

Just cause folks may screw it up, doesnt factor in the debate of what does better gaming wise(DIrected content or sandbox). 

This is not a discussion about what is better gaming, each and every person has his own preference, I am just sharing mine and don't forget I am a GAMER and want all other gamers to enjoy what ever the game might be, even if I might dislike the game they enjoy you will NEVER see me saying that MY game is better the YOUR game, that is childish in my opinion. I want a different experiance then what you may like, and is that wrong?

It is widely accepted that a game that is a PVE -content laden-loot centric-linear progression is going to have the best chance to grab a wide audience in North America than any other specific playstyle. I happen to not only agree with it, I really dont see anything to discount it out there in NA. Someone might say EVE....but I put that more on the PVP crowd.

The only thing that will really enhance PVE  is to include PvP as well. That is as long as PvP isnt the focus for class balance.  It has been my observation, that devs run into problems when they do balance characters for things like batttlefield play.

What isnt going to enhance the PVE game I listed is Uncle Owen. Instead he is going to distract PVE folks by needing to funnel them to give Pink-Panty-Owen his content selling gear.

Like I said in my topic, I want both combat and none combat to have fun, besided anyone is a Uncle Owen in most current MMO's, except some known guilds, but overall it's only your imagination or a NPC that is telling your not Uncle Owen but some Hero, I rather be known by the community I play with then be some NPC named hero.....

Originally posted by Reklaw

Originally posted by Moaky07

 

Um unless you missed the news pal, it isnt gamers like myself that need to find a game to play.

That, for the totally oblivious(which you appear to be by your post), would be the sandbox crowd. As in "YOU NEED TO FIND A GAME TO PLAY IN THE FIRST PLACE".

Perhaps you misunderstood my topic, I was not talking about sandbox games, I was/am talking about a virtual experiance, of course it could be sandbox, but it's more in line for me towards a open world with freedom of play and not forced towards only one type of play: Combat roles.

I havent found a game I like to replace EQ yet as my game to play. So dont put things like AoC on me as "my" game. And it sure didnt fail due to being a PVE, or content laden world.

AoC- supposed to be a PvP crowd game. It isnt even about the PVE content which I favor. I quit buying big name MMOs cause sick of wasting my money. So I sat out this one. Great call on my part. I dont mind paying if I decide to play a few months. It is hard though when a game launches without content, and lacking polish as the various msg brds indicated.

I thought to have found my niche in AoC untill they marked all resource nods on the map , that aside, it was to much of a game to be called a MMORPG for me and my personal playstyle towards MMORPG's.

WAR- I am unsure if is PvP, but pretty sure this one had problems as well.

Again for me too much game and not much MMORPG

Tabula Rasa-Hold on I am still laughing. OK...hit the forums...I didnt play so I couldnt tell ya about the tons of problems with this one.

If only the NGE came with that combat system I bet the game would be fine since.....

I actually enjoyed Tabula Rasa, it had many things going for it, but it missed about everything that I would consider to be placed into the catergory of MMORPG, okay it was a MMO but it ended there, I really wished they added more traditional MMORPG feature's, like I said put TR's combat/animations into SWG and that game could really life again...... 

Come to think of it, I dont remember any game since WOW that has brought both polish and content to the playing field. Oh wait...I forgot...LoTRO did just that. Kind of strange it has good numbers, and was just voted game of the year. /sarcasm off

I agree on that, WOW did/does many things good for allot of people so no ignoring that, again try to remember that WE WANT POLISH AND CONTENT TOO. Do you think I aplaud SOE for pre-cu with the content they provided.....hmmm what content.......we the player provided that for the most part, of course thanks to many feature's implimented back then.

Bottom line....games like AoC knew they had only one chance to get it right at launch...and they didnt. That they didnt live up to expectations doesnt surprise me in the least.

I honostly believe no game ever will life up to anyone's expectations, but I am postive there will be games to be enjoyed. Keping expectations high is good.

Just cause folks may screw it up, doesnt factor in the debate of what does better gaming wise(DIrected content or sandbox). 

This is not a discussion about what is better gaming, each and every person has his own preference, I am just sharing mine and don't forget I am a GAMER and want all other gamers to enjoy what ever the game might be, even if I might dislike the game they enjoy you will NEVER see me saying that MY game is better the YOUR game, that is childish in my opinion. I want a different experiance then what you may like, and is that wrong?

It is widely accepted that a game that is a PVE -content laden-loot centric-linear progression is going to have the best chance to grab a wide audience in North America than any other specific playstyle. I happen to not only agree with it, I really dont see anything to discount it out there in NA. Someone might say EVE....but I put that more on the PVP crowd.

The only thing that will really enhance PVE  is to include PvP as well. That is as long as PvP isnt the focus for class balance.  It has been my observation, that devs run into problems when they do balance characters for things like batttlefield play.

What isnt going to enhance the PVE game I listed is Uncle Owen. Instead he is going to distract PVE folks by needing to funnel them to give Pink-Panty-Owen his content selling gear.

 

Like I said in my topic, I want both combat and none combat to have fun, besided anyone is a Uncle Owen in most current MMO's, except some known guilds, but overall it's only your imagination or a NPC that is telling your not Uncle Owen but some Hero, I rather be known by the community I play with then be some NPC named hero.....

Reklaw

Why did you remove my quote of Fireflys post, and then make it appear like I was addressing the OP. The first part of my post wasnt about the OP...instead instead it was commenting about another post in the thread.

Later on in my post I moved towards the idea being originally posted about....having play styles for all. And as I indicated, Roll-players dont want role-play as the primary feature of their MMO.

In laymans terms this means we dont care to give Uncle Owen a job selling us the best items in game. We either wanna loot or quest for it.

Having non-combat roles as a major function in a MMORPG is what "sandbox" is all about. Although in your post you try to hide it as such. YOu claim it doesnt matter if it is sandbox. Hwne you make non-combat viable then you have a sandbox,

Which is just another case of trying to piggy back your game style onto those that dont want that in their gaming exp. Instead content driven folks want the majority of work on content, with tradeskills being a secondary function that doesnt receive much attention.

Wait, does this mean no voice chat?  I just love huge Orcs with 15 year-old skinny whiteboy voices.

Originally posted by Moaky07

 

Reklaw

Why did you remove my quote of Fireflys post,

You want the reason, it might suprise you...hold on......I will tell you.....and yes doing so again with this reply

The only reason why I did that was because I felt it would be a to long of a post to gather all quote's in it

and then make it appear like I was addressing the OP. Did nothing of the kind, pure how you view it, wasn't my idea why I did as I just explained

The first part of my post wasnt about the OP...instead instead it was commenting about another post in the thread.

Yeah but you kept bringin up sandbox where I say it's about a different experiance, could be a MMORPG with certain sandbox feature's but is not demanded to be, remember it is MY topic

 

Later on in my post I moved towards the idea being originally posted about....having play styles for all. And as I indicated, Roll-players dont want role-play as the primary feature of their MMO.

In laymans terms this means we dont care to give Uncle Owen a job selling us the best items in game. We either wanna loot or quest for it.

Having non-combat roles as a major function in a MMORPG is what "sandbox" is all about. Although in your post you try to hide it as such. YOu claim it doesnt matter if it is sandbox. Hwne you make non-combat viable then you have a sandbox,

I do so in a open world game, some MMORPG do have certain sandbox feature's but they are NOT sandbox game, I am not able to raise land, I am not able to creat water or a pool somewhere in the middle of a desert, I aint able to create many thing I would consider sandbox, example a game that I really consider to be a sandbox game would be SimCity or Spore. oh and I thought there was a game called Wurmonline that had more sandbox in it then most common MMO's?, just the overall look/feel of the game didn't appeal to me.

Which is just another case of trying to piggy back your game style onto those that dont want that in their gaming exp. Instead content driven folks want the majority of work on content, with tradeskills being a secondary function that doesnt receive much attention.

Seriously I aint forcing anyone, I am sharing my opinion in how I would like a game to be, perhaps you need to stop visiting forums cause here is a place where people share different view points. If you feel it's forced then really stop visiting forums cause you are bound to see people share there opinions on it, and seems you not able to understand that they are opinions, I understand you sahre a opinion, why is it that hard to understand that on a forum we can discus that, you don't have to agree with me, perhaps that is what you think that you need to accept what I am saying? if so trust me you don't have to and seeing your replies kinda shows you have no idea what it is I want.

What you need to do is look at specific game section, tell me if you see me bash any game, please name one game I bash cause I dislike that game in that specific section , sorry I don't do that like most, I speak up in the public section speaking about public things, sometimes towards certain games, sometimes just general, but never in a dedicated section will you see me bash others people fun or other people's games.

 

SWG was the last MMO I truly enjoyed as well. The game got worse as they made it less of a virtual world and more of some kind of linear system they wanted players to follow because that fruit loop julio torres or whatever his name was talking in his fruity gay lisp about "players want to be luke hehe!"

So lame.

Originally posted by Baseline

SWG was the last MMO I truly enjoyed as well. The game got worse as they made it less of a virtual world and more of some kind of linear system they wanted players to follow because that fruit loop julio torres or whatever his name was talking in his fruity gay lisp about "players want to be luke hehe!"

So lame.

My problem with this is that it was indeed said by Torres, but when remembering the official forums from back then it was something that was complained about allot as many poeple who already left SWG early complained it wasn't Star Warsy enought, Jedi was to hard, there was to much reading, and yes DEVS have said those things aswell, but they only did so cause those on the forums spoke that much about it.

I don't think that I could disagree with the OP more. I already have a life and I don't need a second one. I already have a job and I don't need a second one.

Having said all that..... I think that Yahtzee hit the nail on the head in his review of Farcry 2. A narrative sandbox game needs an overarching goal as well as a huge world to explore or else you lose any sense of accomplishment and stop caring. Now you can have the freedom of deciding how to go about that great big goal, but you still need something to accomplish. This goal need not be epic or anything, but it does need to make sense in the context of your character. Just like real life, our goals often depend on our circumstances.

It's kind of like the design philosophy behind the upcoming Age of Decadence. Or maybe the original Deus EX would be a better example. Everything in the game has to be designed for multiple means of accomplishment while still being open ended enough for players to improvise means that the developers never considered. That's one tall order!

At any rate, just shoving people out into the wild with nary a hint as to what they should, or could, be doing is a sure way to make those of us with jobs move on to something else in a hurry. I don't care if there are games like what the OP mentioned. But for me personally? My life really doesn't suck so bad that I have to escape it completely.

Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe

I don't think that I could disagree with the OP more. I already have a life and I don't need a second one. I already have a job and I don't need a second one.

Having said all that..... I think that Yahtzee hit the nail on the head in his review of Farcry 2. A narrative sandbox game needs an overarching goal as well as a huge world to explore or else you lose any sense of accomplishment and stop caring. Now you can have the freedom of deciding how to go about that great big goal, but you still need something to accomplish. This goal need not be epic or anything, but it does need to make sense in the context of your character. Just like real life, our goals often depend on our circumstances.

It's kind of like the design philosophy behind the upcoming Age of Decadence. Or maybe the original Deus EX would be a better example. Everything in the game has to be designed for multiple means of accomplishment while still being open ended enough for players to improvise means that the developers never considered. That's one tall order!

At any rate, just shoving people out into the wild with nary a hint as to what they should, or could, be doing is a sure way to make those of us with jobs move on to something else in a hurry. I don't care if there are games like what the OP mentioned. But for me personally? My life really doesn't suck so bad that I have to escape it completely.

Because wanting an inmersive experience in a fantasy virtual world  means our lives suck bad?

Congratulations

Originally posted by altairzq

Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe

Because wanting an inmersive experience in a fantasy virtual world  means our lives suck bad?

Congratulations

To begin with, I'd like to thank you for totally ignoring everything about my post except the random bit of trollbait at the end. So much for PC gamers being more sophisticated and perceptive than everyone else.

And that is the vibe you give off when you tell me that you want to escape into a holodeck into "another world." If your life was bearable, why would you want to escape from it? I like to have diversions from my life now and again, but that isn't at all the same as what the word "escape" implies. There's a reason why people have their stereotypes of D&D rejects.

Again, I like my life. I  DON'T NEED escape. I WANT an enjoyable way to kill some hours during the downtime in my life. That's pretty much what gaming is about. Sorry you feel differently.

Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe

Originally posted by altairzq

Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe

Because wanting an inmersive experience in a fantasy virtual world  means our lives suck bad?

Congratulations

 

To begin with, I'd like to thank you for totally ignoring everything about my post except the random bit of trollbait at the end. So much for PC gamers being more sophisticated and perceptive than everyone else.

And that is the vibe you give off when you tell me that you want to escape into a holodeck into "another world." If your life was bearable, why would you want to escape from it? I like to have diversions from my life now and again, but that isn't at all the same as what the word "escape" implies. There's a reason why people have their stereotypes of D&D rejects.

Again, I like my life. I  DON'T NEED escape. I WANT an enjoyable way to kill some hours during the downtime in my life. That's pretty much what gaming is about. Sorry you feel differently.

You do realize Fallout 1 & 2 as well as Arcanum, three games along the very same lines as Age of Decadence, games which Vince (Developer of AoD) thinks are the epitome of RPGs, were created because the developers wanted to create a tabletop simulation? You know, the D&D you're critisizing?

What the OP and others want is something similar to those tabletop adventures but instead in an MMO. You want the same thing in a single player game. But great job critisizing everyone about it! Very sophisticated of you!

Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe

I don't think that I could disagree with the OP more. I already have a life and I don't need a second one. I already have a job and I don't need a second one.

Having said all that..... I think that Yahtzee hit the nail on the head in his review of Farcry 2. A narrative sandbox game needs an overarching goal as well as a huge world to explore or else you lose any sense of accomplishment and stop caring. Now you can have the freedom of deciding how to go about that great big goal, but you still need something to accomplish. This goal need not be epic or anything, but it does need to make sense in the context of your character. Just like real life, our goals often depend on our circumstances.

It's kind of like the design philosophy behind the upcoming Age of Decadence. Or maybe the original Deus EX would be a better example. Everything in the game has to be designed for multiple means of accomplishment while still being open ended enough for players to improvise means that the developers never considered. That's one tall order!

At any rate, just shoving people out into the wild with nary a hint as to what they should, or could, be doing is a sure way to make those of us with jobs move on to something else in a hurry. I don't care if there are games like what the OP mentioned. But for me personally? My life really doesn't suck so bad that I have to escape it completely.

 I  feel it's very sad that we have people who for some reason pretend that those of us who want a virtual experience that we want a second life?, people who say that really have no clue what so ever and probably are either very young or just new to games and gamers.

So if you reply to a topic make sure you understand that topic.

But must say that your post count, join date and your age should have given you experiance in understanding what my topic was about. Instead of the comments you trow around here sounding like you young or new to games.

Originally posted by Reklaw

Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe

I don't think that I could disagree with the OP more. I already have a life and I don't need a second one. I already have a job and I don't need a second one.

Having said all that..... I think that Yahtzee hit the nail on the head in his review of Farcry 2. A narrative sandbox game needs an overarching goal as well as a huge world to explore or else you lose any sense of accomplishment and stop caring. Now you can have the freedom of deciding how to go about that great big goal, but you still need something to accomplish. This goal need not be epic or anything, but it does need to make sense in the context of your character. Just like real life, our goals often depend on our circumstances.

It's kind of like the design philosophy behind the upcoming Age of Decadence. Or maybe the original Deus EX would be a better example. Everything in the game has to be designed for multiple means of accomplishment while still being open ended enough for players to improvise means that the developers never considered. That's one tall order!

At any rate, just shoving people out into the wild with nary a hint as to what they should, or could, be doing is a sure way to make those of us with jobs move on to something else in a hurry. I don't care if there are games like what the OP mentioned. But for me personally? My life really doesn't suck so bad that I have to escape it completely.

 

 I  feel it's very sad that we have people who for some reason pretend that those of us who want a virtual experience that we want a second life?, people who say that really have no clue what so ever and probably are either very young or just new to games and gamers.

So if you reply to a topic make sure you understand that topic.

 

 

Yep exactly. It's the FUN of living in an alternate world and setting, not the NEED to. Big difference.

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by Reklaw

Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe

I don't think that I could disagree with the OP more. I already have a life and I don't need a second one. I already have a job and I don't need a second one.

Having said all that..... I think that Yahtzee hit the nail on the head in his review of Farcry 2. A narrative sandbox game needs an overarching goal as well as a huge world to explore or else you lose any sense of accomplishment and stop caring. Now you can have the freedom of deciding how to go about that great big goal, but you still need something to accomplish. This goal need not be epic or anything, but it does need to make sense in the context of your character. Just like real life, our goals often depend on our circumstances.

It's kind of like the design philosophy behind the upcoming Age of Decadence. Or maybe the original Deus EX would be a better example. Everything in the game has to be designed for multiple means of accomplishment while still being open ended enough for players to improvise means that the developers never considered. That's one tall order!

At any rate, just shoving people out into the wild with nary a hint as to what they should, or could, be doing is a sure way to make those of us with jobs move on to something else in a hurry. I don't care if there are games like what the OP mentioned. But for me personally? My life really doesn't suck so bad that I have to escape it completely.

 

 I  feel it's very sad that we have people who for some reason pretend that those of us who want a virtual experience that we want a second life?, people who say that really have no clue what so ever and probably are either very young or just new to games and gamers.

So if you reply to a topic make sure you understand that topic.

 

 

 

Yep exactly. It's the FUN of living in an alternate world and setting, not the NEED to. Big difference.

And that is just what Jimmy is getting at....he doesnt want that in his gaming. Is it so hard to understand?
 

And there goes Reklaw again...if someone doesnt agree with em it must be cause they are "young" or "new to gaming".

Well here is one for ya Reklaw...you must have a screw loose if you cannot understand that most folks(young and old) dont want a total life in a game. I am 40 in RL, and I still think of someone that demands to be able to get so involved in a game along the lines of a Trekkie. Social misfits at their finest. Perhaps that is what is being demonstrated in their postings.

YOu guys not only shoot for open worlds, you want RL classes to have meaning in a game.

YOU cant have a loot-oriented game when tradeskillers are a playstyle on par with adventuring classes.

Instead of letting that thought sink thru your craniums, you seek anyway possible to discount folks....trying your best to never acknowledge facts. The biggest fact being the folks that enjoy your depth of playstyle are but a speck of the MMO world.

BTW...I couldnt agree with Jimmy more on his posting.

And for the person mentioning DnD....although I never played PnP but once in the 80s, I sure dont remember tradeskiller as an option in any of the games I have played(BG series/NWN/NWN2/IWD series) based on it. So no clue why that would be part of these virtual RPGs you guys keep clamoring for.

i agree with teh OP. though i know that some people dont. they just want to play a video game. I would prefer both . i want the adventure and wild excitement of a video game, but i also would like the virtual experience to feel like im in another world. that in itself is adventurous. getting to know a land, its people, its cultures. becoming a some sort of hero or famous man over the course of my time.

Originally posted by Moaky07

And that is just what Jimmy is getting at....he doesnt want that in his gaming. Is it so hard to understand?

Nope that is not hard to understand and I know there are plenty of games for him to enjoy those aspects he wants out of a game.
 

And there goes Reklaw again...if someone doesnt agree with em it must be cause they are "young" or "new to gaming".

Wrong you really seem not to understand what it is I say, it's not that he doesn't agree on what it is I said, it is that he didn't get what it is I meant.

Well here is one for ya Reklaw...you must have a screw loose if you cannot understand that most folks(young and old) dont want a total life in a game.

Funny you stil are NOT able to understand that I do not want a total life out of a game, you really fail to understand what it is I want.

I am 40 in RL, and I still think of someone that demands to be able to get so involved in a game along the lines of a Trekkie. Social misfits at their finest. Perhaps that is what is being demonstrated in their postings.

YOu guys not only shoot for open worlds, you want RL classes to have meaning in a game.

Sorry you totaly oblivious about what we want seeing most of your reply's to this topic.

YOU cant have a loot-oriented game when tradeskillers are a playstyle on par with adventuring classes.

Instead of letting that thought sink thru your craniums, you seek anyway possible to discount folks....trying your best to never acknowledge facts. The biggest fact being the folks that enjoy your depth of playstyle are but a speck of the MMO world.

BTW...I couldnt agree with Jimmy more on his posting.

And for the person mentioning DnD....although I never played PnP but once in the 80s, I sure dont remember tradeskiller as an option in any of the games I have played(BG series/NWN/NWN2/IWD series) based on it. So no clue why that would be part of these virtual RPGs you guys keep clamoring for.

 

 

I find it interesting the different stereotypes used to rationalize why someone would or would not like a sandbox mmo. I love the idea that somehow my life is void of experience and that I need this type of game to fill an empty void (that is what TV and alcohol are for. ) I also think age has nothing to do with why you might love virtual world type experiences. Just because we are lovers of sandbox experiences does not mean those that do not like them, do not get it or are to young.  

We have heard the age 40 drop as if it some sort of benchmark of understanding.  As well as age held up as a shield of grand I get itness (that is not a real word but I like it). Well, I am 50 and the older I get the less I profess to know. The only wisdom that I gained is knowing I am not as wise as I thought I was when I was 30. The point I am making is there are tons of reasons to play escapist entertainment games, with none being more valid then any other. After all it is no different then playing checkers. A game no matter what form it takes removes you from your regular life experiences that is why humans love games so much. However, It is our time in life and we can do with it as we please. Different strokes for different folks so on and so on and scooby dooby dooby.

No one has mention the main reason I play these games, creativity. I view these games, at their best, true artistic masterpieces. These worlds are a shared experience that cross continents and belief systems. What other expereince can you have that allows you the abiltiy to act creatively with a person from china, australia,  ireland, germany, and US. I have done this in raids in EQ2. Truely amazing. In reguards to age,  do think some younger gamers take this experience for granted.To me it is amazing! I mean I had a blip of light dancing back and forth on a black and white screen when I got my first video game system (1972 Magnovox Odyssey 2000). I am amazed at how far that has come.

I love to be creative in a game world and to be able to alter the experience in ways that others can experience to. This maybe as simple as my house in EQ2 or an entire city like in SWG (pre-nge). I am an artist in rl I paint and teach. Yet I still love using that creativity in a virtual world. Why? My life is full, just accept this statement it is true. I am not trying to fill a void. Nope, it is simply fun and a challenge. Just like chess. I love these games and games like Ryzom,EQ2, SWG (pre-nge), Horizons, and others because they allow me freedom of creativity limited by the direction the developers feel the experience needs. Some have more freedom some less, that is what the developer decides with the game play.  I like and want more freedom because it challenge my, logic, intellect, social skills, sense of wonder, and yes creativity. These games are not passive experiences. They are alive and changing. Why would anyone have a problem with that? If you do just go play WOW (just kidding I love WoW played for 4 years). Creativity that is why I enjoy these games. You make a creative game I will probably support that effort. You make a creative game, that allows me to use my creativity, I will definitely support that effort.