Originally posted by gestalt11

So all you Pre-CU people:

 

Why aren't you playing Ryzom or Neocron?  Maybe if the people who pined for the fjords of Pre-Cu put their money where their mouth is and support games done in a similar vein then people will take you seriously.

 

Rather than creating thread #11898383 about how SOE is evil because they released some games on steam.

 

Frankly I just don't beliueve half the Pre-CU lovers.  I think that they are purely the victim of nostalgia, because they don't seem to act consistently.

Not playing Ryzom cause noone PVPs there , from what I was told " You make dates for PVP...." and I was like wtf!? So .... I played for a while liked the game mechanics and the game world and the noob island and skills as well, just the community was too soft for my tastes.

Originally posted by firefly2003

Originally posted by gestalt11

So all you Pre-CU people:

 

Why aren't you playing Ryzom or Neocron?  Maybe if the people who pined for the fjords of Pre-Cu put their money where their mouth is and support games done in a similar vein then people will take you seriously.

 

Rather than creating thread #11898383 about how SOE is evil because they released some games on steam.

 

Frankly I just don't beliueve half the Pre-CU lovers.  I think that they are purely the victim of nostalgia, because they don't seem to act consistently.

Not playing Ryzom cause noone PVPs there , from what I was told " You make dates for PVP...." and I was like wtf!? So .... I played for a while liked the game mechanics and the game world and the noob island and skills as well, just the community was too soft for my tastes.

Then why dont you get several like minded friends to go into that game with ya?

It seems the community was all you didnt like in Ryzom by the content in your post. With 10 or 20 of ya having the same taste in games, I dont see why you all couldnt have fun as well. That is if your friends feel the same way about the gameplay of Ryzom.

Perhaps you could get some "vets" into it with ya if nothing else. Give you guys something to do...and also help a sandbox game out. Because if the present ones are sinking, it sure doesnt encourage companies to invest in new sandboxes.

If I was wanting sandbox games to be made more often, this is the thought process I would be using atm. I sure wouldnt be spending my time going over spilled milk, nor trying to impose my gaming style on others that want nothing to do with it to begin with. Instead I would show that my gaming style is worth investing in to companies, and have the numbers to prove it.

Food for thought.

This has been done to death about a million times,

give it a rest.

Originally posted by Joliust

 

---

Originally posted by Souvec

---

Originally posted by rikilii

---

Originally posted by Death1942

 

if you do a quick google search using certain words you can quite easily find an almost carbon copy of the game being made.  We arent allowed to discuss it here though.

---

 
Why would you not be allowed to discuss an MMO on and MMO site?

---

Because of "legal" issues surrounding that particular MMO in development....

---

 

I don't think it will ever see the light of day. Who knows, maybe it will be finished but who is gonna pony up to $ for those server clusters.

actually it went open source and is going along at crazy pace and (unlike a certian game) i can actually play the damn thing and test it out (and its a lot of fun).  Also there are plenty of private servers for everygame.  Stick a few ads here and there and bam, your making money.

It would never get popular without a new engine. Im not talking about graphics quality, but its limits and bugs. There is no true Z axis in SWG and line of sight issues cant be solved. Devs stated this already.

For example when people asked for atmospheric flight, they were told that objects dont have a top in SWG. So if a 1ft rock will block your speeder on the ground, itll also block your vehicle 100ft up in the air.

Even if you took the preCU skillsystem, lost the lvlsystem and slapped current content on top of it, I dont expect it to be more popular then Anarchy Online for example. Not that that really matters if you are having fun in the game

Originally posted by gestalt11

So all you Pre-CU people:

 

Why aren't you playing Ryzom or Neocron?  Maybe if the people who pined for the fjords of Pre-Cu put their money where their mouth is and support games done in a similar vein then people will take you seriously.

 

Rather than creating thread #11898383 about how SOE is evil because they released some games on steam.

 

Frankly I just don't beliueve half the Pre-CU lovers.  I think that they are purely the victim of nostalgia, because they don't seem to act consistently.

I've tried both of those games. Honestly they were both utter crap and had very little in common with the pre-CU game. I'm not going to spend money on a subpar game just to say I'm supporting a sandbox.

There are lots of reasons why games similar to Pre-CU have gotten little to no attention, and only a small handfull of developers have or are even trying.  SWG was a very risky game when it launched, but it had a very solid anchor, the license.  They could afford to take the risk and bank on the name to bring the masses in.

Clearly in SOE's eyes, the game was not meeting expectation and was altered.

SWG was risky in design, and scope, the challange, the learning curve, and many other areas, but it had the license, and that's what makes all these other games different.  They don't have an established worldwide fanbase for their lore and canon, so they have to sell the game by the gameplay itself, which is difficult especially when  people are not comforted by the freedom of choice.

Originally posted by Da1e

This has been done to death about a million times,

 

give it a rest.

whot? A million times, you say?

Well then there must be a HUGE market for this type of game, why isn't there a developer willing to make something like it?

Originally posted by someforumguy

It would never get popular without a new engine. Im not talking about graphics quality, but its limits and bugs. There is no true Z axis in SWG and line of sight issues cant be solved. Devs stated this already.

For example when people asked for atmospheric flight, they were told that objects dont have a top in SWG. So if a 1ft rock will block your speeder on the ground, itll also block your vehicle 100ft up in the air.

Even if you took the preCU skillsystem, lost the lvlsystem and slapped current content on top of it, I dont expect it to be more popular then Anarchy Online for example. Not that that really matters if you are having fun in the game

I am all for adding a Z axis to every game.  Jumping, flying, and swimming underwater FTW!!

Originally posted by ketrine

Originally posted by Da1e

This has been done to death about a million times,

 

give it a rest.

 

whot? A million times, you say?

Well then there must be a HUGE market for this type of game, why isn't there a developer willing to make something like it?

Um perhaps cause it is the same small group of folks that keep repeating the topic?

Nah that couldnt be it? Could it?

Nope...now that I think of it, I am sure that is why.

The sandbox crowd is gonna have to accept its numbers dont warrant a major investment. Companies see the results of SWG, and its huge budget, and have to be thinking "Frack that" IMO.

So rather than keep demanding you get the same A+ IPs as directed content, it seems like you guys would put your heads together, and campaign for some B grade IP instead to make your virtual world out of.

But that is the problem...the SW IP spoiled ya.

You want your cake, and to eat it too. This is read not only is having your game features enough...they have to be on the best IP around as well. Wake up already.

If this wasnt true IMO, then you guys would be supporting other sandbox games currently available. Alas though, it doesnt appear any of them are "good enough" for you guys. They arent the "PRECioUs", thus you dont wanna play.

Reminds me of a saying about beggars....

BTW...Lord help ya guys if investors ever catch wind of the more "animated" sandbox fans around here. I see no way in Hades you guys will ever get a game made then. I know I sure wouldnt wanna be attracting these folks as customers. Knowing up front if you make them mad, in any way, then they are going to haunt your company. Perhaps for years to come ala SOE.

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by ketrine

Originally posted by Da1e

This has been done to death about a million times,

 

give it a rest.

 

whot? A million times, you say?

Well then there must be a HUGE market for this type of game, why isn't there a developer willing to make something like it?

 

The sandbox crowd is gonna have to accept its numbers dont warrant a major investment. Companies see the results of SWG, and its huge budget, and have to be thinking "Frack that" IMO.

With respect I must ask what is the source of your information on that?

We gotta remember that some time ago it seemed that some people at SoE did believe that a sandbox game would be a huge success. They must have had some information to come to that conclusion.

 SWG Pre-CU was a great Sandbox game but like Bandits in the night those dogs at SOE first changed the game with the CU ( Which I previewed at the Celebrations 3 SWG breakfast - Man , peeps were pissed).

Then those Skin Flints created an abomination  we have come to know and love as the New game Edition without consulting or considering the player customer who they were trying to please.  You can not blame over 200k customers leaving in a huff.

 As I mention to Bagdersmacker , I applaud those that withstand such disconcern but no one should slight the Vets in their desire to have a game that is similar to a game removed without recourse.

Originally posted by rikilii

Originally posted by Death1942

if you do a quick google search using certain words you can quite easily find an almost carbon copy of the game being made.  We arent allowed to discuss it here though.

 

Why would you not be allowed to discuss an MMO on and MMO site?

Answer quoted from MMORPG.com staff:

"MMORPG.com does not allow the discussion of free servers or emulation servers; this includes any emulators or free servers for SWG or SWG pre-CU. I understand that some users feel that these topics are allowed by SOE, but until and unless SOE releases an official statement regarding these projects we are not allowing emu discussions on our boards. For any questions, please contact community@MMORPG.com."

FYI

Originally posted by JestorRodo

 SWG Pre-CU was a great Sandbox game but like Bandits in the night those dogs at SOE first changed the game with the CU ( Which I previewed at the Celebrations 3 SWG breakfast - Man , peeps were pissed).

Then those Skin Flints created an abomination  we have come to know and love as the New game Edition without consulting or considering the player customer who they were trying to please.  You can not blame over 200k customers leaving in a huff.

 As I mention to Bagdersmacker , I applaud those that withstand such disconcern but no one should slight the Vets in their desire to have a game that is similar to a game removed without recourse.

 

 

 

Well said brother :)

Originally posted by gestalt11

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by gestalt11

Its wierd how people who played EQ1 think it was great and seem to never realized it had a terrible reputation of being extremely nerdy, uncool, and that it sucked yout life away.

 

Same thing with SWG you get all these people who loved the game and completely forget it had a terrible reputation for being extremely grindy and boring. 

 

Blizzard would never have made SWG with Blizard like polish.  The Blizzard Polish process would result in game much less boring and therefore disliked by the people who loved SWG.

 

So your assertion is that Blizzard Polish doesn't just add good content, fix bugs, and stream line the game mechanics, but that it polishes away the fun from the game? Interesting.

But it would only polish away the fun for the "nerds" and the general public would love the game?

 

Only for the immersion/sandbox nerds.  Not every kind of nerd.

 

The "normal" person aka the general public just aren't that picky about such things.  They HATE inconvience, as far as immersion they just want it to be plausible.

 

The reverse is true of an immersion nerd.  They HATE immersion inconsistency but will go through what other people consider torturous to get whatever they consider immersion.

 

All you need to do is look at the stereotypical Star Trek nerd who constantly questions William Shatner about some script inconsistency in episode 23 at some Star Trek Convention.

 

In the end it is really just about numbers and who is in the majority and to some extent ereveryone is nerdy about something.   But that stereotypical Star Trek nerd is the person that gets made fun off because they have a peculiar (ie. outside the norm) obsession with a certain thing being "correct" and disregard the currently in place norms of letting things slide for the sake of social "grease".

 

Many of the things immersion nerds want are directly opposed to what other "normal" people will consider fun.  Even worse, since they are nerds and tend to be obesessive, controling, and lack social grace.   They therefore attempt to force the entire system to revolve around their desires and lack any kind of will to compromise.  In fact at the hint of compromise they go into a Rainman like fit.  This puts "normal" people off.  The games associated with these people are considered strange and undesirable like they have a disease. 

 

Not that the other way around is really any better.  But the reason I am framing it this way is to communicate the derision that many people feel for these games.   These are social games.  They obey social rules.  Worrying about "correctness" = "not being cool".  

 

The reason WoW has succeeded is only partially about quality.  It is more about the fact that they minmized the pain in the ass portions of EQ combined with a fairly bug free experience.  That is the part where "the general public" dislikes inconvience.  But they also made the game cool and fun and all that.  That is more than just "having things to do", it is also not getting all crazy about things.  About being cool.  This might sound juvenile, but this is really the way all social phenomenon play out.  I am not talking about marketing.  I am talking about not doing ridiculously punishing things for some stupid made up concept ideal like "Risk vs Reward" or "Immersion".

 

The general public may seem stupid.  They may even justify themselves in ways that are patently stupid.  But they are not as stupid as they seem.  As an atomic sort of "hive-mind" the "General public"  has an extremely sensitive nose for when things are getting out of hand.  And when things do get out of hand the response is derision.  Because the "general public"  wants things to move smoothly and towards social comrpomise and when something as burdensome and subjective as immersion comes in  and gets rigorouslyand arbitrarily enforced they get pissed and puke you out.  And when that happens they get pissed and do various political-style things to marginlize that thing.

 

The point being that both SWG and EQ had elements that were just out of hand, over the deep end for most normal people.  There are a number of people who like those games and look back with nostalgia and completely gloss over all the negative things that they themselves even complained about.

 

The hologrind was insane and sucked ass.  To people who played SWG it was a burden to be born, or something bitch about or just some other thing to do.  To people on the outside it is literally alarming, they say to themselve "Oh my, I don't want to be caught dead associating with that kind of insane crap.  That is just plain sick".   As soon outsiders are judging those sorts of game mechanics as "sick" there is a major problem.  This is differentiated from the sick individuals seen in any MMORPG who play to much.  It is when the game itself is viewed this way that it gets socially derided.

 

Both SWG and EQ had this stigma.  And they had it for a reason.  And most of those are rooted in these "nerdy" narrowly focused things.  I purposely used "nerdy" for a reason.  I didn't even use geek.  I specifically mean that derided type of person who lacks social grace and all that.   And that is the major difference between WoW and EQ1 that "social grace".    As far as design philosophy.  Some people will say its not graceful at all.  Well that is fine.  Socialization can be a dirty business.  But bulling your way past or being blind to social issues is just as dirty and imperfect even if you are convinced you are "in the right".  Which is one of the hallmarks of nerdiness.

 

Now you might say what about "Revenge of the Nerds"; the nerds became popular in the end.  Well that is far to complex to discuss at this moment and had a lot to do with robots.

 

Everyone who plays an MMORPG is a nerd by default. "Normal people" are supposed to be out clubbing and having real friends and engaging in real life social situations with real life people. Existing in a simulated world alone is enough to win you the nerd title for life.

That said, we are talking about "simulated worlds" here. Thats what MMORPG's are. All people play them to be "immersed" for whatever reason they have. The correct phrase you're looking for is maybe "lore nerd" in which case I can assure you thats not what  any of the SWG "immersion nerds" are talking about. Because if that was what they were talking about they wouldve quit the game without a second thought because there was so many Jedi running around, which even the most casual Star Wars fan would tell you is not the way the story says its supposed to be.

I would suggest in the future if you're going to be a huge nerd yourself and commit so much time and effort to analyzing another group of nerds, that you at least do so in a way that makes it look like you at least know what you're talking about.

Have a nice day.

PS. Did you just try to say that playing World of Warcraft does not come with a social stigma of nerdiness?

Again let me assure you, if you play WoW you are a nerd. About the only video games you are allowed to play and not be a nerd are FPS's and maybe mario. Other than that you can not claim immunity to being a nerd just because there are more nerds playing your game than any other nerd games.

Originally posted by SaibotKang

 

 

Everyone who plays an MMORPG is a nerd by default. "Normal people" are supposed to be out clubbing and having real friends and engaging in real life social situations with real life people. Existing in a simulated world alone is enough to win you the nerd title for life.

That said, we are talking about "simulated worlds" here. Thats what MMORPG's are. All people play them to be "immersed" for whatever reason they have. The correct phrase you're looking for is maybe "lore nerd" in which case I can assure you thats not what  any of the SWG "immersion nerds" are talking about. Because if that was what they were talking about they wouldve quit the game without a second thought because there was so many Jedi running around, which even the most casual Star Wars fan would tell you is not the way the story says its supposed to be.

I would suggest in the future if you're going to be a huge nerd yourself and commit so much time and effort to analyzing another group of nerds, that you at least do so in a way that makes it look like you at least know what you're talking about.

Have a nice day.

 

PS. Did you just try to say that playing World of Warcraft does not come with a social stigma of nerdiness?

Again let me assure you, if you play WoW you are a nerd. About the only video games you are allowed to play and not be a nerd are FPS's and maybe mario. Other than that you can not claim immunity to being a nerd just because there are more nerds playing your game than any other nerd games.

   Thanks Dr Phil !    Now armed with this information we will all magically (if that is not too nerdy) become as cool as you so we all can go clubbing with you - what a bunch of BS.