Originally posted by popinjay

 

---

Originally posted by DillingerEP
You think comparing any niche game out there, and putting it against WoW is fair??.

---

 

 

It was PRed as a mainstream MMO game with Mythic's heads looking squarely at Wow as the main competition. MJ said it plenty of times. Paul Barnett said it plenty of times. Warhammer was not billed to go up against GW or any of the other PvP centric games. It wasn't even said to go up against EVE, which is a oRvR pvp game at heart just like WAR. So I think its more than fair to compare it to the game it was chasing all along.

 

Look to see more comparisions of Warhammer vs Aion, Warhammer vs AoC (if they can pick up), and probably the big one.. Warhammer vs Eve for #2 behind Wow. That's not even looking down the line too far.
 

What exactly did MJ and co say "plenty of times". I know they said that it wasn't realistic to top WoW and that they would be pretty happy with 2nd place, which is "best of the rest" if you prefer.

Best of the rest = Best Niche game in other words.

Mjb stated that they don't have to top WoW to be successful and that second place was the realistic target.

Now whether they are in second place, third or last is irrelevant. Thing is they set out to conquer second place, and NOT first.

WoW has by far the biggest number of subs so it's every developer's dream (and goal) to reach that much subs but no one would dare say "We're aiming to overthrow WoW" out loud .

Let's just say Mythic were a tad optimistic, nothing wrong with that. Fact is they're happy with second place, and good luck to them (and others) in getting as much $$ from us poor sods as they can!

 This is ridiculous, a 6 page thread on a rumor. Even if the rumor is true, who cares, honestly. We are consumers, not investors. These threads are only posted by people who have something against said company. Mythic is doing fine. Of course they are having lay-offs, its not unusual. Remeber when Blizzard cut a whole team, Blizzard North? Did we go screaming foul and stating thier company is in some type of disaster? Nope. The move actually helped spawn another great company, Arena.net. Who's to say they just didn't need them anymore. Maybe the public testing is actually doing a better job, therefore they let them go because it would save them money. That's business people. What next, the get rid of thier janitors and you think its the end of EA? Go play an MMO ............

---

Originally posted by Electriceye

What exactly did MJ and co say "plenty of times".

---

This one my friend, you'll have to look up for yourself this time. Proofs been posted ad nauseum on plenty of forums all over and I really would'nt want to go down there again lol.

Suffice to say, he was shooting for Wow, which most people have figured out by now, so any other discussion of that would be somewhat passe. He gave a LOT of definitions on what 'successful' would mean (almost changed them monthly) so that one has been debated lots too.

MJ does not ever think Warhammer is a niche game nor has he ever, in which case kid gloves come off when you put yourself up against "the champ" in any area of competition.

Saying Mythic was a "tad optimistic" with regards to their goals and achievements is like saying Christopher Columbus was a tad off finding a new route to the Far East, to India, China, Japan and the Spice Islands, lol. Understatement does not suit you well, my friend.

If they actually are in second place (my money is on EVE) it would indeed be remarkable after their amazing dropoff and incomplete product.

---

Originally posted by mackdawg19

This is ridiculous, a 6 page thread on a rumor. Even if the rumor is true, who cares, honestly.

---

ROLL CALL!

Salvatoris? Check. Popinjay? Check. Bodypass? Check. ElectricEye? Check. Pheace? Check. Londonmagus? Check. Yamota? Check. Banthis? Check. Kyleran? Check. Ascension? Check.

Mackdawg? Mackdawg? Mackdawg?!?! Oh, you're late.... Check.

The usual are here. We like to yak about it.

Did you bring a tardy note?

Originally posted by popinjay

 

---

Originally posted by Electriceye

 

What exactly did MJ and co say "plenty of times".

---

 

 

This one my friend, you'll have to look up for yourself this time. Proofs been posted ad nauseum on plenty of forums all over and I really would'nt want to go down there again lol.

Suffice to say, he was shooting for Wow, which most people have figured out by now, so any other discussion of that would be somewhat passe. He gave a LOT of definitions on what 'successful' would mean (almost changed them monthly) so that one has been debated lots too.

MJ does not ever think Warhammer is a niche game nor has he ever, in which case kid gloves come off when you put yourself up against "the champ" in any area of competition.

Saying Mythic was a "tad optimistic" with regards to their goals and achievements is like saying Christopher Columbus was a tad off finding a new route to the Far East, to India, China, Japan and the Spice Islands, lol. Understatement does not suit you well, my friend.

If they actually are in second place (my money is on EVE) it would indeed be remarkable after their amazing dropoff and incomplete product.

Meh whatever. Second place was good enough from the start from Mythic's point of view. Even BEFORE the game launched they always thought that second place was the position they would be happy with.

This was BEFORE launch, where expectations where naturally VERY high and they were hyping the game even more. MjB was very confident and fearless etc., and he STILL didn't dare to utter more than "we're not happy with anything less than second place".

www.massively.com/2008/08/29/1-billion-to-compete-with-wow-ridiculous-says-mythic-vp/

I don't think any links is really necessary as It's common knowledge really. I posted this one because it is the period when WAR, it's developers etc. were the most pumped up.

Yep go ahead to VN forums and ask MjB whether he would be happy with 2nd place or not. I'm not going to rummage through countless posts, interviews etc. to prove it to you.

---

Originally posted by Electriceye

Yep go ahead to VN forums and ask MjB whether he would be happy with 2nd place or not. I'm not going to rummage through countless posts, interviews etc. to prove it to you.

---

I think he's too busy answering Nancy Drew questions right now otherwise I'd try. He's all over that thread talking about stock prices and the economy.

Its not update news about Warhammer like people want... but hey, at least he's talking. :)

I don't see why everyone couldn't make this prediction after playing Warhammer. 

---

Originally posted by Electriceye

www.massively.com/2008/08/29/1-billion-to-compete-with-wow-ridiculous-says-mythic-vp/
 
I don't think any links is really necessary as It's common knowledge really. I posted this one because it is the period when WAR, it's developers etc. were the most pumped up.
 

---

See, I think that's the primary difference between us two, and also the difference fundamentally between ex-players and current players (not that you are current). You would see MJ post something like above in the past and believe it wholly and completely true and as proof he doesn't lie or isn't really clueless. Whereas I see something he posts in an exchange from the past, like this on the WHA boards, and realize the guy just might be a shady ex-lawyer speaking with a forked tongue:

Originally Posted by Garthilk, Admin WHA (5-23-08):

"Folks, Will there be official forums? Maybe. Despite whatever Mark (Jacobs) says about forums today, that answer might change tommorow. That is the nature of business. So, never say never. That said however, Warhammer Alliance will continue to exist the same way it has for the last several years".

Flash forward 3 hours later in response to that post....

Originally posted by Mark Jacobs, WHA (5/23/08):

"Never. There, I said it (again). I would rather hear William Shatner and Roseanne Barr singing a duet while having my fingernails pulled out one by one while sitting in a pool of molten lava than have Mythic's own Official Forums for WAR. How's that for clarity?"

Mark

Shake, stir and flash forward a few months and..... VIOLA! Truth.

Originally Posted by Garthilk, Admin WHA (12-5-08):

The William Shatner and Roseanne Barr Christmas Album

"Rarely has this site ever posted anything by way of news that wasn't first passed by Mythic and fact checked. We've always appreciated the hard work of the developers and have always worked to get the facts straight before we bring it to the community. However, today's news item was met with both the suggestion I talk with someone higher up the food chain and a, "no comment". Despite the official company line, when unofficial people in and out of Mythic, as well as inside EA, all tell you the same thing, well, I'm going to listen and I think you should too.

Contrary to Marks insistence that there will never be official forums, last week I received word that plans are on for the building and launching of official public forums early in the new year. There are plans for three separate official forums, one for the USA, one across the pond at our GOA friends and also one for the good folks in Russia where WAR will be released in early 2009. It should be no surprise that this is going to be a huge undertaking and the community teams are staffing up to handle the new responsibilities." (Condensed: the rest is just not trying to burn bridges with Mythic for calling them on these lies, and for making him look silly on his own forum)

I know, I know. I'm twisting Mark's words. Wait.. it's the economy that made them get forums. Well, he didn't really mean no forums even though he said it (again). No, its big, bad EA forcing widdle Mark to capitulate. No wait, it's Wow's fault this is happening. Or you could always say fake post. It seems Mark is "working as intended". Let's see... you don't care about this and it doesn't prove anything, right?

You believe everything MJ says. Good luck with that. I once told you there's probably MORE evidence of him double speaking on file than telling the truth. (Origins, anyone?)

I wonder if we can get him on record to say anything now on instancing... hmm..

What does this conversation remind me of ?

Oh wait, the same converations that took place for AoC...

Oh, and TR

Oh.... and Vanguard.......

Oh... and etc......

Originally posted by bodypass

Ok ,

A month ago I predicted that if WAR would fall under 250 K subs it would come under the hammer of EA cuts.

"ALL of the playtest group" : who will do the Beta testing for new content launch then ?

The players as usual?

Reference:

http://www.joystiq.com/2009/01/19/rumor-mythic-layoffs-affect-qa-customer-support/

The past 2 weekends didn't look very good on Xfire, which now shows a 26/1 ratio between Wow and War Xfire players. WE all know that that figure was 6/1 at the end of September....

Just divide 5Million by 26 and it is indeed under the 250K (200K even).

 

what do you want a brownie botton? I could have told you the same thing about EVERY company in America.

Originally posted by popinjay

 

---

Originally posted by Electriceye

 

www.massively.com/2008/08/29/1-billion-to-compete-with-wow-ridiculous-says-mythic-vp/
 
I don't think any links is really necessary as It's common knowledge really. I posted this one because it is the period when WAR, it's developers etc. were the most pumped up.
 

---

 

 

See, I think that's the primary difference between us two, and also the difference fundamentally between ex-players and current players (not that you are current). You would see MJ post something like above in the past and believe it wholly and completely true and as proof he doesn't lie or isn't really clueless. Whereas I see something he posts in an exchange from the past, like this on the WHA boards, and realize the guy just might be a shady ex-lawyer speaking with a forked tongue:

Originally Posted by Garthilk, Admin WHA (5-23-08):

"Folks, Will there be official forums? Maybe. Despite whatever Mark (Jacobs) says about forums today, that answer might change tommorow. That is the nature of business. So, never say never. That said however, Warhammer Alliance will continue to exist the same way it has for the last several years".

Flash forward 3 hours later in response to that post....

 

Originally posted by Mark Jacobs, WHA (5/23/08):

"Never. There, I said it (again). I would rather hear William Shatner and Roseanne Barr singing a duet while having my fingernails pulled out one by one while sitting in a pool of molten lava than have Mythic's own Official Forums for WAR. How's that for clarity?"

Mark

Shake, stir and flash forward a few months and..... VIOLA! Truth.

 

Originally Posted by Garthilk, Admin WHA (12-5-08):

The William Shatner and Roseanne Barr Christmas Album

"Rarely has this site ever posted anything by way of news that wasn't first passed by Mythic and fact checked. We've always appreciated the hard work of the developers and have always worked to get the facts straight before we bring it to the community. However, today's news item was met with both the suggestion I talk with someone higher up the food chain and a, "no comment". Despite the official company line, when unofficial people in and out of Mythic, as well as inside EA, all tell you the same thing, well, I'm going to listen and I think you should too.

Contrary to Marks insistence that there will never be official forums, last week I received word that plans are on for the building and launching of official public forums early in the new year. There are plans for three separate official forums, one for the USA, one across the pond at our GOA friends and also one for the good folks in Russia where WAR will be released in early 2009. It should be no surprise that this is going to be a huge undertaking and the community teams are staffing up to handle the new responsibilities." (Condensed: the rest is just not trying to burn bridges with Mythic for calling them on these lies, and for making him look silly on his own forum)

I know, I know. I'm twisting Mark's words. Wait.. it's the economy that made them get forums. Well, he didn't really mean no forums even though he said it (again). No, its big, bad EA forcing widdle Mark to capitulate. No wait, it's Wow's fault this is happening. Or you could always say fake post. It seems Mark is "working as intended". Let's see... you don't care about this and it doesn't prove anything, right?

You believe everything MJ says. Good luck with that. I once told you there's probably MORE evidence of him double speaking on file than telling the truth. (Origins, anyone?)

I wonder if we can get him on record to say anything now on instancing... hmm..

 

 

 

 

Hahaha popinjay! Tell me where in my post did I 'defend' MjB? I never said his words were gospel truth.

I just commented on the fact Mythic always said 2nd best was good enough. That's all.

I don't believe MJB knows what he's talking about all the time, and It's obvious he doesn't, take these comments you posted regarding official forums as examples.

However, the topic we were discussing was obviously so predictable, that even Mark "double speaking" Jacobs (as you describe him) NEVER said anything about topping WoW. He is probably feeling WAR is underachieving, but he never stated that WAR was going to dethrone WoW (no one in his right mind would say it).

Everyone makes mistakes. At the end of the day we're all humans. Wait, you think MJB is always wrong? fair enough I DON'T really care.

But don't put words in my mouth!

Mark Jacobs is not always right. There.

Happy?

---

Originally posted by Electriceye

Hahaha popinjay! Tell me where in my post did I 'defend' MjB? I never said his words were gospel truth.
I just commented on the fact Mythic always said 2nd best was good enough. That's all.
 
I don't believe MJB knows what he's talking about all the time, and It's obvious he doesn't, take these comments you posted regarding official forums as examples.
 
However, the topic we were discussing was obviously so predictable, that even Mark "double speaking" Jacobs (as you describe him) NEVER said anything about topping WoW. He is probably feeling WAR is underachieving, but he never stated that WAR was going to dethrone WoW (no one in his right mind would say it).
Everyone makes mistakes. At the end of the day we're all humans. Wait, you think MJB is always wrong? fair enough I DON'T really care.
But don't put words in my mouth!
Mark Jacobs is not always right. There.
Happy?

---

Hmm.. I guess we can both go semantical.

Where did I say Jacobs said he was going to 'dethrone' Wow? Where did I say you are defending Jacobs? I never said that. Where did I say MJ was "always wrong?" I didn't even say 'gospel truth', lol. I think we both better be careful of accusing each other of stuffing mouths, no?

Once again with the apologetic understatement of fact, lol. "He is probably feeling WAR is underachieving.." Gee, ya think? ROFL! I'm pretty sure he's not doing cartwheels over there. Between what MJ says and what actually happens and how you gloss over it, you guys could sell 1 million more boxes... just add Paul and mix. Man, you need a PR job for real over there. :)

Apparently you did care enough to post the link to try and prove a point. But when you got a counterlink and evidence of fibbery, it no longer was important? No problem, ostriching is probably fun, until you actually take your head out of the sand again, I guess. :)

Things like what he said about those forums is not an example of someone just "not always right" as you say. Why do you think the Admin of that site was pissed? Because he knew Mark was flat out lying and at the same time, it was making him look like a donkey on his own site.

And just to show you what a class act MJ was, when the Admin announces it months later on the record, MJ didn't come back into the thread to acknowlege it, comment on it or even apologize to the guy about it. He sure was 3 hours quick to say "Never" though, cause the guy couldn't prove it yet. When you acknowledge that (if you truly are) MJ can lie like anyone eles, then you can understand why critical posts of Warhammer abound.

Because companies lie about content, about features, about gear, about endgame.. loads of stuff. :)

I want a brownie!

Originally posted by bodypass

Originally posted by Electriceye

Guys did you actually click on the link?

 

First thing that comes out:

"Rumor: Mythic layoffs affect QA, customer support"

 "Hot news" indeed.
 

Twisting a rumor and trying to trick people into believing it's fact..

There's no doubt about it, bodypass strikes again!
 

 

Just read the article and of course EA confirmed it in not that many words.

Of course guys that were layed off went to the press and ....EA DID NOT deny it.

The day Mythic signed for EA they signed their death.... as an independant MMO developper.

 

THAT was the message. Not the OP. ... btw Massively already brought the news also...

 

 

I agree. A lot of the annoying stuff I saw in WAR, was just plain outright EA scam material.

Originally posted by popinjay

 

---

Originally posted by Electriceye

 

Hahaha popinjay! Tell me where in my post did I 'defend' MjB? I never said his words were gospel truth.
I just commented on the fact Mythic always said 2nd best was good enough. That's all.
 
I don't believe MJB knows what he's talking about all the time, and It's obvious he doesn't, take these comments you posted regarding official forums as examples.
 
However, the topic we were discussing was obviously so predictable, that even Mark "double speaking" Jacobs (as you describe him) NEVER said anything about topping WoW. He is probably feeling WAR is underachieving, but he never stated that WAR was going to dethrone WoW (no one in his right mind would say it).
Everyone makes mistakes. At the end of the day we're all humans. Wait, you think MJB is always wrong? fair enough I DON'T really care.
But don't put words in my mouth!
Mark Jacobs is not always right. There.
Happy?

---

 

 

Hmm.. I guess we can both go semantical.

Where did I say Jacobs said he was going to 'dethrone' Wow? Where did I say you are defending Jacobs? I never said that. Where did I say MJ was "always wrong?" I didn't even say 'gospel truth', lol. I think we both better be careful of accusing each other of stuffing mouths, no?

Once again with the apologetic understatement of fact, lol. "He is probably feeling WAR is underachieving.." Gee, ya think? ROFL! I'm pretty sure he's not doing cartwheels over there. Between what MJ says and what actually happens and how you gloss over it, you guys could sell 1 million more boxes... just add Paul and mix. Man, you need a PR job for real over there. :)

Apparently you did care enough to post the link to try and prove a point. But when you got a counterlink and evidence of fibbery, it no longer was important? No problem, ostriching is probably fun, until you actually take your head out of the sand again, I guess. :)

Things like what he said about those forums is not an example of someone just "not always right" as you say. Why do you think the Admin of that site was pissed? Because he knew Mark was flat out lying and at the same time, it was making him look like a donkey on his own site.

And just to show you what a class act MJ was, when the Admin announces it months later on the record, MJ didn't come back into the thread to acknowlege it, comment on it or even apologize to the guy about it. He sure was 3 hours quick to say "Never" though, cause the guy couldn't prove it yet. When you acknowledge that (if you truly are) MJ can lie like anyone eles, then you can understand why critical posts of Warhammer abound.

Because companies lie about content, about features, about gear, about endgame.. loads of stuff. :)
 

You know, the possible answer to all of this is that Mythic isn't hosting the new fourum, it'll be EA that is hosting, modding etc. That potential event will fit both "facts" without breaking them. MJ said Mythic would never do it. That statement doesn't preclude EA doing an end run to do it.

---

Originally posted by trevornor

You know, the possible answer to all of this is that Mythic isn't hosting the new fourum, it'll be EA that is hosting, modding etc. That potential event will fit both "facts" without breaking them. MJ said Mythic would never do it. That statement doesn't preclude EA doing an end run to do it.

---

Possible, but not likely. It's more likely that MJ will have the official forums on his end, and then will want to oversee it as he usually wants to oversee everything else. If you read the whole exchange between the two and you got what you came up with, I'd say you are reaching a bit. We could say it's possible a "third party" authorized by EA will host the Offical forums. After all, "MJ said Mythic would never do it" as you say. But its usually better to go on what's stated in print over time as a body of work. Nothing gives clarity and perspective like time does. And we've seen what he said in May and the reality in December.

Given what we know MJ said and his reactions/non-reactions to the newsleak, I really believe Occam's Razor applies in this situation. You can bet MJ would have been the first one out of the gate (if your theory was correct) explaining that was the case. He doesn't want to look silly either. "Folks, Mythic is not hosting the forums. EA will host them. There is no conflict with what I said about Mythic never having forums" would have been the next words printed after the WHA scoop.

I guess we'll wait this year.

Why on earth would anyone be so obsessed about a game they would laugh about some  poor people that just got laid off work.  Just think about them and their families before you think about your dinky gamer feud.  Let's hope they can find a new project as soon as possible.

Good luck to you all,

Goeegoanna

Originally posted by LondonMagus

Hmm, think of Xfire as a poll where only a ridiculously biased sample ever get to vote. Well if those votes were on paper I know where they would be most useful, "The Toilet".

I love the cheery implication of your post though, why play any game when nothing lasts forever?

It doesn't matter if the game lasts another five months, five years or even fifty. As long as whilst they are playing it people feel like they are getting their money's worth that's all that matters.

It's a game not a lifetime commitment. (LOL, I almost said marriage but even that's nothing nowadays).

Lol, so true.  I mean, shit.  I guess we all better /wrists because, I mean hey, let's be realistic here.  We're going to die.  So why bother?  I mean really, it's all going to end someday, maybe tomorrow even.  So let's not waste another minute, lets just get it over with here and now.  *sarcasm*

As cheesy as that line from LOTRO may be "It's what we do with the time that's given to us."  And that's all that matters.  You enjoy the good times that you have, and to hell with the rest of them.

Like my favorite quote goes: "That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die. "

Nothing is forever.  So do what you can now and stop living in constant stagnation for fear of losing something.

It's like:  "*cry*  They ruined SWG, it'll never be the same, no game will ever succeed, I'll make sure of it.  "

Some people do enjoy games still.  Yes, a lot are garbage these days, but there are still some gems.

As for WAR.  I just built myself a new comp, got a few games (war being one of them) and at first I was like, wtf is this.  But then I got in and started playing a Witch Elf (yes I know, shuddup =p)  and I'm having a blast killing those horrible Order bastards.  For all those years of Albion treachery!

Plus, possibly getting the slayer and da choppa at the end of this month.

It's like with Darkfall, I *want* that game to do well, whether or not I ever play it.  Having people happy is a good thing in the world we live in.  It's good to smile occasionally, you know. 

And this is coming from a huge doom and gloom, pessimistic bastard, believe me.  Doesn't mean I don't like having a good time.

Just pull your balls out of your mom's purse for five seconds, drop them a little, breathe deeply, and relax, and maybe...just maybe...enjoy doing something you like. 

And hopefully that doesn't include going onto forums and trying to rag on someone's parade, but I guess if that suits you, well I sure can't stop you.

As soon as the game hit the budget release price of £7.99 on play.com, before Christmas, I figured the game was in trouble. 

The problem with War, and Age of Conan, is that eye candy and gimmicks do not make up for lack of content at the end of the game.  I just /facepalm now when beta-testers and the media froth and enthuse about a new MMORPG, because basically the developers put all the effort into the initial stages, to boost the inevitable pre-launch hype, then they realise they've run out of ideas and programming skills for the rest of the game. 

Padding out the first 20 to 30 levels with goodies, then skimping on the rest of the levels is gaming suicide. Developers need to maintain their userbase, not bore them to death.  Failing to actually include features that were promised at launch or having them so bugged they are all but non-functional just makes it that much worse.  That shambles of a game, Hellgate, did all of the above and died because of it.  Let's hope "The Next Big Game" actually does something innovative, for a change, and actually delivers what it promises when it actually promises it.

I personally will never trust any new game that doesn't offer a free playable demo before release, not after having been burnt too many times.  If they haven't the guts to put a demo out there, no way will I buy it at launch.

they announced today they were also letting go staff members from the madden and ncaa studios. everbody is hurting with the ecnomy in the shape its in.