Looks like it.

"A package arrived at the K&G headquarters today from Mythic Entertainment. Opening the package revealed something very unexpected….

After the eerie music and mental image of Josh Drescher cutting our hair with a scary smile on his face faded from our minds, the gears began to turn as to what the contents of this package could represent.

Hair color creme (with Fruit Oil Concentrates), A Hair Cut Kit, and a message saying more to come on January 29th…

Our first guess is that these things could obviously represent something on the way in an upcoming patch. We know that 1.1.1 is going to be an important patch with the ‘Zone Domination’ system. Perhaps Mythic is going to allow players to change their character appearances, hair, hair color, and other cosmetic things. That would be the obvious answer, but maybe there’s more to this mysterious package-turned-puzzle…

What do you think? Do these hair care products foreshadow fluff on the way to Warhammer Online…. or do Graev and I need to be afraid of what’s to come on January 29th?

Update #1 - Further brainstorming has revealed the following possibilities… Taken from info about the Dwarf Slayer:

“A notable aspect to Dwarf culture is the Slayer Oath. A Dwarf who has suffered a great shame, loss, or humiliation will dye his hair and beard orange, and cut it into a Mohawk using pig grease to stick it in place.”

Could this be a clue that the Dwarf Slayer is on the way?!"

Link: www.keenandgraev.com/

What do you guys think?

Do you think the Slayer is coming? If it does, do you think it's a good move? Discuss.

Originally it was the hammerer. If they introduce slayer instead then I think they will have the lore peeps upset since their whole purpose is to die in battle, honorably. I also think that alot of people will immediately roll one adding to the further issue on some servers of low destro population, because I do not see the choppa having as much appeal as a blood covered and naked dwarf dual weilding axes and spewing curses while he tears through his enemies.

Just my 2 cents (too bad current inflation renders it worthless).

Cheers!

Originally posted by vmoped

Originally it was the hammerer. If they introduce slayer instead then I think they will have the lore peeps upset since their whole purpose is to die in battle, honorably. I also think that alot of people will immediately roll one adding to the further issue on some servers of low destro population, because I do not see the choppa having as much appeal as a blood covered and naked dwarf dual weilding axes and spewing curses while he tears through his enemies.

Just my 2 cents (too bad current inflation renders it worthless).

Cheers!

I was a strong advocate of "Slayers would go against lore" until I realized that it could actually work. If you've ever been a Melee DPS in WAR, going for the squishies, you know how fast you get WTFPWNT by tanks and everyone else. That's a honorable death though, you're going down fighting, especially if you take someone out with you. However, don't assume that Slayers are suicide bombers. In a way, they are, but they're fighting too. If somehow they survive, they might be upset, but it's not the end of the world. Just like everyone else they'll go find another fight and hopefully die in that one.

The only thing I'm unsure about is the social friendliness of Slayers. My understanding is that they do group sometimes and gather at the Slayer Keep in Kadrin Valley sometimes, but generally they travel alone. I guess Mythic could  make it work though. Nice description of the Slayer, haha.

But Orc Choppas would be popular too, only because 1) there's only one current Orc class and that makes alot of Greenskin fans mad, and 2) instead of vengeful, curse-spittin killing machines, they're stupid, maniacal killing machines. Dwarfs might tip the scale with the mohawk though.

Edit: MJ did  say look out for a rather special announcement coming at the end of January. I don't know if Slayers will be introduced but it'll certainly help the small population inbalances on some servers if they will be.

As a witch hunter can I be a pretend Slayer as I die in battle all the time?

 I would rather have a slayer then a hammerer. Hammerers just seem lame to me. Might be because I'm not into hammers. I always liked slicing, stabbing, and chopping more then bashing. Plus the guy in the movie thing looked cool with the mohawk and stuff. Plus how he just spit the blood out like it was nothing. How cool is that?

Originally posted by Ascension08

Originally posted by vmoped

Originally it was the hammerer. If they introduce slayer instead then I think they will have the lore peeps upset since their whole purpose is to die in battle, honorably. I also think that alot of people will immediately roll one adding to the further issue on some servers of low destro population, because I do not see the choppa having as much appeal as a blood covered and naked dwarf dual weilding axes and spewing curses while he tears through his enemies.

Just my 2 cents (too bad current inflation renders it worthless).

Cheers!

I was a strong advocate of "Slayers would go against lore" until I realized that it could actually work. If you've ever been a Melee DPS in WAR, going for the squishies, you know how fast you get WTFPWNT by tanks and everyone else. That's a honorable death though, you're going down fighting, especially if you take someone out with you. However, don't assume that Slayers are suicide bombers. In a way, they are, but they're fighting too. If somehow they survive, they might be upset, but it's not the end of the world. Just like everyone else they'll go find another fight and hopefully die in that one.

The only thing I'm unsure about is the social friendliness of Slayers. My understanding is that they do group sometimes and gather at the Slayer Keep in Kadrin Valley sometimes, but generally they travel alone. I guess Mythic could  make it work though. Nice description of the Slayer, haha.

But Orc Choppas would be popular too, only because 1) there's only one current Orc class and that makes alot of Greenskin fans mad, and 2) instead of vengeful, curse-spittin killing machines, they're stupid, maniacal killing machines. Dwarfs might tip the scale with the mohawk though.

Edit: MJ did  say look out for a rather special announcement coming at the end of January. I don't know if Slayers will be introduced but it'll certainly help the small population inbalances on some servers if they will be.

Slayers would fit into the Warhammer game well enough although for completely different reasons to what everyone knows about them from the lore of the original Warhammer world. In real Warhammer Dwarf Slayers do indeed seek an honourable death in a glorious battle. Unfortunately if Slayers appear in the Warhammer "Online" universe then there will be lots of VERY pissed off and depressed slayers......yeah even more pissed off than they normally are. Why? Well the answer is obvious. In Warhammer Online everyone is immortal and no-one can die......so the Slayers will never ever get the honourable death they seek. Every time they die they will find themselves magically reanimated some where nearby, with all of their possessions and not a scratch on them. On top of that there will be all of those do-gooder healers patching them up while they are fighting so even the mockery of a so-called "death" will be held at bay for the poor old slayer. The Warhammer Online universe is basicly the ultimate vision of hell for a Dwarf Slayer.

---

Originally posted by Electriceye
What do you guys think?
Do you think the Slayer is coming? If it does, do you think it's a good move? Discuss.

---

Based on how Mythic usually releases information about the game in unconventional ways, I'd say it is on the way. There are plenty reasons for Mythic to put it in to keep the current playerbase here.

The most logical reason Slayers are coming is it's an attempt to try and steer some of the population away from Destro, which Mythic spent months steering people to in pre-marketing campaigns.

The lore part? It won't offend the Warhammer lore enthusiasts. The vast majority of those have long left the game as they see the lore is there, but not represented truly correctly. This will be just another example of lore busting to keep them away, not draw them closer to the game. Some might come, but most of them have already spoken. The Slayer lore problem is particularly troublesome lorewise, as this is the description of what a Slayer is:

• Dwarfs place tremendous importance on their status as trustworthy individuals. With Books of Grudges that can go back for generations, an entire clan can be held accountable if one Dwarf breaks an oath or otherwise brings shame upon his household. For Dwarfs who have failed their clan in such a way, the only penance is death. Dwarfs, being practical in nature, see suicide as a waste. Thus, the Cult of the Slayer was born.
• Dwarfs are above all very proud individuals and do not cope easily with failure or personal loss. Should a Dwarf suffer some terrible personal tragedy, he will be inconsolable. The loss of his family, his hoard, or failure to uphold a promise can seriously unhinge the mind of any Dwarf. Young Dwarfs forsaken in love often never recover from the blow to their pride. Whatever the cause, Dwarfs who have suffered what they perceive to be a serious loss of honor will often forsake the fellowship of their family and friends for a life of self-imposed exile.
• Leaving their home stronghold as far behind as possible, they wander in the wilderness brooding on the misery of existence. Having broken with everything he holds dear, the Dwarf deliberately seeks death by hunting out and fighting large monsters. These Dwarfs are called Slayers. They are stern and laconic individuals, not much given to talking about themselves, and they tend to be horribly scarred as a result of their encounters with Trolls, Giants, Dragons and other monsters.
• Slayers stiffen their hair with pig grease so that it sticks out in a crest running from the front of their head to the nape of their neck, shaving the rest of their head. Their way of life invariably means that many achieve their ambition and are slain at the hands of whatever ferocious beast they have confronted. Others, the least successful ones in a sense, tend to survive either because they are the toughest, the fastest or most determined. This process of natural selection weeds out all those who do not have exceptional abilities, so you can be fairly sure that any Slayer you meet is exceptionally tough, violent, and psychopathically dangerous.
• Slayers are a fascinating sub-cult of Dwarf society, and many famous Slayers have achieved deeds of exceptional valor. Younger Slayers often band together, sometimes under the tutelage of an older master, so that they can learn the arts of monster slaying. In times of war whole regiments - or bands - of Slayers appear out of the wilderness and join Dwarven Armies, which is a help more than welcome to most Dwarf Lords. Slayers spend as much time as possible improving their warrior skills. Although they seek death, Dwarfs are incapable of deliberately fighting to lose, and so always enter the fray to win.
• Many Slayers operate from or live in Karak Kadrin the "Slayer Keep" as it is the traditional destination for all would-be Slayers before they head out to seek their death.

The sole point of this behavior is to die, thus Slayers refuse to wear armor in any type of battle. This is a cornerstone of their culture. It would be dishonorable for a Slayer to actually WEAR armor. I would wager if a Slayer showed up at Karak Kadrin with armor on, he'd be even more shamed than what made him turn into a Slayer from the get go. They surely would kick him out and then he'd have no group at all.

Yet Mythic is going to gear them up? I guess there's nothing wrong with lore busting when your facing subscription losses from your base. Anyone who was thinking about playing Warhammer before wasn't holding out simply because Slayers weren't in the game, so this is a stopgap measure to keep 40's from getting to bored with the same old rerolls already in game.

Now Mythic may do something like give them "tattoo" drops from bosses to 'wear', but that's kind of cheap just to get them in there.

I do think it's a great business decision on Mythic's part. And if I were a beancounter, I'd advise them to do as much of this type of stuff as possible, just mix in enough lore so that you don't get sued. Besides, this is a nice way to soften the blow that instancing will be coming. Overall, a very sound business decision.

There is no reason not to put them in.

Originally posted by popinjay

 

---

Originally posted by Electriceye
What do you guys think?
Do you think the Slayer is coming? If it does, do you think it's a good move? Discuss.

---

 

 

Based on how Mythic usually releases information about the game in unconventional ways, I'd say it is on the way. There are plenty reasons for Mythic to put it in to keep the current playerbase here.

The most logical reason Slayers are coming is it's an attempt to try and steer some of the population away from Destro, which Mythic spent months steering people to in pre-marketing campaigns.

The lore part? It won't offend the Warhammer lore enthusiasts. The vast majority of those have long left the game as they see the lore is there, but not represented truly correctly. This will be just another example of lore busting to keep them away, not draw them closer to the game. Some might come, but most of them have already spoken. The Slayer lore problem is particularly troublesome lorewise, as this is the description of what a Slayer is:

• Dwarfs place tremendous importance on their status as trustworthy individuals. With Books of Grudges that can go back for generations, an entire clan can be held accountable if one Dwarf breaks an oath or otherwise brings shame upon his household. For Dwarfs who have failed their clan in such a way, the only penance is death. Dwarfs, being practical in nature, see suicide as a waste. Thus, the Cult of the Slayer was born.
• Dwarfs are above all very proud individuals and do not cope easily with failure or personal loss. Should a Dwarf suffer some terrible personal tragedy, he will be inconsolable. The loss of his family, his hoard, or failure to uphold a promise can seriously unhinge the mind of any Dwarf. Young Dwarfs forsaken in love often never recover from the blow to their pride. Whatever the cause, Dwarfs who have suffered what they perceive to be a serious loss of honor will often forsake the fellowship of their family and friends for a life of self-imposed exile.
• Leaving their home stronghold as far behind as possible, they wander in the wilderness brooding on the misery of existence. Having broken with everything he holds dear, the Dwarf deliberately seeks death by hunting out and fighting large monsters. These Dwarfs are called Slayers. They are stern and laconic individuals, not much given to talking about themselves, and they tend to be horribly scarred as a result of their encounters with Trolls, Giants, Dragons and other monsters.
• Slayers stiffen their hair with pig grease so that it sticks out in a crest running from the front of their head to the nape of their neck, shaving the rest of their head. Their way of life invariably means that many achieve their ambition and are slain at the hands of whatever ferocious beast they have confronted. Others, the least successful ones in a sense, tend to survive either because they are the toughest, the fastest or most determined. This process of natural selection weeds out all those who do not have exceptional abilities, so you can be fairly sure that any Slayer you meet is exceptionally tough, violent, and psychopathically dangerous.
• Slayers are a fascinating sub-cult of Dwarf society, and many famous Slayers have achieved deeds of exceptional valor. Younger Slayers often band together, sometimes under the tutelage of an older master, so that they can learn the arts of monster slaying. In times of war whole regiments - or bands - of Slayers appear out of the wilderness and join Dwarven Armies, which is a help more than welcome to most Dwarf Lords. Slayers spend as much time as possible improving their warrior skills. Although they seek death, Dwarfs are incapable of deliberately fighting to lose, and so always enter the fray to win.
• Many Slayers operate from or live in Karak Kadrin the "Slayer Keep" as it is the traditional destination for all would-be Slayers before they head out to seek their death.

 

 

The sole point of this behavior is to die, thus Slayers refuse to wear armor in any type of battle. This is a cornerstone of their culture. It would be dishonorable for a Slayer to actually WEAR armor. I would wager if a Slayer showed up at Karak Kadrin with armor on, he'd be even more shamed than what made him turn into a Slayer from the get go. They surely would kick him out and then he'd have no group at all.

Yet Mythic is going to gear them up? I guess there's nothing wrong with lore busting when your facing subscription losses from your base. Anyone who was thinking about playing Warhammer before wasn't holding out simply because Slayers weren't in the game, so this is a stopgap measure to keep 40's from getting to bored with the same old rerolls already in game.

Now Mythic may do something like give them "tattoo" drops from bosses to 'wear', but that's kind of cheap just to get them in there.

I do think it's a great business decision on Mythic's part. And if I were a beancounter, I'd advise them to do as much of this type of stuff as possible, just mix in enough lore so that you don't get sued. Besides, this is a nice way to soften the blow that instancing will be coming. Overall, a very sound business decision.

 

I think you summed it all up brilliantly. This is the best thing that is going to be said on this thread and I dont see any need for anyone to post anything else now.

I hereby gift Popinjay with the honourable tile of "King of the Dwarf Slyer Thread".

Slayer would be an awesome addition to order. Destro toons were very popular at launch because they had alot more attitude and rock n roll infused in them. Slayer definetly has attitude, a cool look , rock n roll, heavy metal and all that cool stuff . The only problem is war has  alot of alt aholics already and another cool toon would further the problem =P.

I hope so.  I'd actually be very excited to see the Slayer in-game.

I'm not a hardcore follower of the lore, so you'll hear no complaints from me in that regard.  On the topic of lore...

...I never played the tabletop game, however I read up on it.  Now, I imagine the Slayer was a playable character in the tabletop game.  A player using a Slayer during a battle would most likely lose that Slayer during the battle.

Now, would this player retire that Slayer piece after the battle, never to use it again?  I don't know, that's why I'm asking.  My assumption is that it's unlikely.  It would be even more costly (financially and with time) to keep buying Slayer pieces over and over and over and repaint new ones over and over and over, just to stick with the lore.

Do I doubt that there are hardcore followers of the lore who would go to such extremes?  No, it's entirely possible.  Do I doubt that they would make that type of investment just for the sake of lore?  Yes.

That being said... why is it so impossible to imagine a videogame stepping out of the bounds of lore when the tabletop game the same lore is based off of may already be doing so?

---

Originally posted by xiirot

 
That being said... why is it so impossible to imagine a videogame stepping out of the bounds of lore when the tabletop game the same lore is based off of may already be doing so?

---

Let's run a checklist...

"Black guards don't use spears or shields in lore, and evreything goes through GW, so don't expect to see it put in." Some poor soul thought this on WarhammerAlliance before they released the class in game.

What about squigherder lore? Mythic??? "Yup lore supports riding Squigs, herding Squigs, and stabbin stuff with anything from musical instruments to torches. This riding inside Squigs and using bows stuff not so much."

Surely Mythic wouldn't tweak the new classes like Blackguards would they? "I bolded the important part for you. In lore and in the TT game Blackguards DO NOT USE SHIELDS. EVER. They use halberds and...halberds. That's it."

Well, at least they got the part about Sorceresses being "female only" in Warhammer lore.

I know they kept the Swordmaster lore right. "Unfortunately, people who love the lore (and this is a game based on the lore) also despise a shield using swordmaster." At least this guy understands people's pain lol.

I don't think you have to worry about Mythic's "videogame stepping out of the bounds of lore". They've shown they are quite good at it, at least with character careers. I would'nt be surprised based on their twisting and tweaking already, if a Slayer shows up in game with full plate armor and full self-rezzing skills and a shield too. I mean, the game is made for casual fans, after all who just want some fun, right?

i say bring on the slayers

 Shouldn't really be any trouble with lore issues if they go about it correctly. For example the Slayer's desire to die can be implemented as easily as not giving them a Flee button. Most "issues" with introducing the Slayer are easily worked around and have been multiple times on fanboards. In addition, several classes in the game can be said to break the lore more than a Slayer ever could.

---

Originally posted by Axxar
 Shouldn't really be any trouble with lore issues if they go about it correctly. For example the Slayer's desire to die can be implemented as easily as not giving them a Flee button. Most "issues" with introducing the Slayer are easily worked around and have been multiple times on fanboards. In addition, several classes in the game can be said to break the lore more than a Slayer ever could.

---

Slayers wear NO gear or use any magic. Please work that easily into a game where the endgame is one big, gigantic gear grindfest in order to do anything, please.

---

Originally posted by Axxar
In addition, several classes in the game can be said to break the lore more than a Slayer ever could.

---

Originally posted by popinjay

 

---

Originally posted by Axxar
 Shouldn't really be any trouble with lore issues if they go about it correctly. For example the Slayer's desire to die can be implemented as easily as not giving them a Flee button. Most "issues" with introducing the Slayer are easily worked around and have been multiple times on fanboards. In addition, several classes in the game can be said to break the lore more than a Slayer ever could.

---

 

Slayers wear NO gear or use any magic. Please work that easily into a game where the endgame is one big, gigantic gear grindfest in order to do anything, please.

 

 

---

Originally posted by Axxar
In addition, several classes in the game can be said to break the lore more than a Slayer ever could.

---

And this part is not helping your case. ("You can break Slayer lore because they've already broken it 4 or 5 times already")

 

 

Yeah , it's the one thing to  want the Slayers in game playable (and i really do ) but if they lose every attribute that makes them cool in the first place then there's no ppoint.

Designers'll have to pretty careful to get it balanced.

Remember that Mythic is creating a MMORPG based off of years and years of lore.  It is probably a most difficult job.  Especially a MMORPG based solely around PvP.  Were it a MMORPG with no PvP, or even a single-player game, I'm sure it would have been much easier.  And some of the exceptions to lore they had to make, would not have been made.

If you don't like what they did with their game, send them a message with constructive feedback.  If they receive enough messages with similar feedback, chances are, they will start making changes.

Berating anyone for trying to do their job doesn't do anyone any good.  All it does is fuel the fires in the angry.

I personally hope they make a vast amount of changes to the game.  I was a loyal fan, but have quit playing temporarily until things change.  But what I won't do is try and stop others from having fun.  If someone is currently enjoying Warhammer Online... more power to them.  I'll invest my money in something else.

---

Originally posted by xiirot
Remember that Mythic is creating a MMORPG based off of years and years of lore.  It is probably a most difficult job.  Especially a MMORPG based solely around PvP.  Were it a MMORPG with no PvP, or even a single-player game, I'm sure it would have been much easier.  And some of the exceptions to lore they had to make, would not have been made.
If you don't like what they did with their game, send them a message with constructive feedback.  If they receive enough messages with similar feedback, chances are, they will start making changes.
Berating anyone for trying to do their job doesn't do anyone any good.  All it does is fuel the fires in the angry.
I personally hope they make a vast amount of changes to the game.  I was a loyal fan, but have quit playing temporarily until things change.  But what I won't do is try and stop others from having fun.  If someone is currently enjoying Warhammer Online... more power to them.  I'll invest my money in something else.

---

I dont think its possible to stop someone else from playing, unless you pull out their connections or something. People make up their own minds and its definitely good to have both sides of the story. You need "Boo Warhammer" just like you need "Yay Warhammer" if they aren't producing content someone feels isn't up to par.

I think people should definitely TRY Warhammer if they are thinking about it, someone may like it otherwise. But I don't think it serves anyone with all positive when their certainly isn't call for it.

When you quit Warhammer, there is no exit survey anyways... not until much later down the line. But if there IS someone who was waiting just for Slayer to play, then their dreams are coming true very shortly.

Well as someone pointed out on page 1, the slayer wades into battle always seeking to win.  This goes well with the earlier point that young slayers will often band together under an older veteran slayer.  Look, they go seeking an honourable death, this precludes wading in with the sole purpose to lose and die, that would be dishonourable to the extreme.

As to the gearing issue, why couldn't mythic do it with different tiers of tatoos and jewelry pieces?  For example, a nipple ring for t1, 2 nipple rings for t2, a chain connecting them in t3, and chains and piercings all over the place for t4?

As far as anyone knows Mythic and Games Workshop have been working rather closely together with everything, with GW even coming out and explaining male sorcs etc.  Wait until the full announcement before crying to the heavens that *if* they do add slayers that they then *must* break lore.

---

Originally posted by severius
Well as someone pointed out on page 1, the slayer wades into battle always seeking to win.  This goes well with the earlier point that young slayers will often band together under an older veteran slayer.  Look, they go seeking an honourable death, this precludes wading in with the sole purpose to lose and die, that would be dishonourable to the extreme.
As to the gearing issue, why couldn't mythic do it with different tiers of tatoos and jewelry pieces?  For example, a nipple ring for t1, 2 nipple rings for t2, a chain connecting them in t3, and chains and piercings all over the place for t4?
As far as anyone knows Mythic and Games Workshop have been working rather closely together with everything, with GW even coming out and explaining male sorcs etc.  Wait until the full announcement before crying to the heavens that *if* they do add slayers that they then *must* break lore.

---

This is more true than you know. Mythic cannot just go in and change things around without permission, especially something as loved as the Slayer. They wouldn't be allowed to just throw clothes or tattoos without prior approval or get sued. So that means if slayers are wearing clothes, tattoos, or hehe, nipple rings GW is down with it.

My guess is it was a hard sell by MJ to GW explaining the situation with the endgame ("we don't have a clue yet") and that they'd need help to keep subs in game while they fix it. GW not wanting to see the IP get laughed at, probably is WAY more agreeable about these kinds of suggestions now than during the planning stages, especially during all the bad economic news. It doesnt help that it looks like Mythic has stuff client side and its probably hackable, least that's the skinny forming. Step on one bug, up pops another.

Lean times make strange bedfellows.