I see it all over the Internet, but especially here.

Everyone has a whole slew of ideas of what makes the perfect MMO. Perhaps it is a nostalgic wink back to UO of the late 90s. Perhaps it is a twist on their current favorite game. Perhaps it is some absurd idea that if THEY were in control of an MMORPG, it would be special.

In the end, though, whiners remain whiners. There seem to be a lot of people on this board that hate every mainstream MMO for various reasons ranging from "it's too hard" to "it's too easy" and everything imaginable in between.

I assert that these people are looking for something that no MMO will ever offer - a life. They will never get that, and thus will never be happy.

AMIRITE??

Different players want different things.  A game that is released and is what some of the players want will make those players happy for a while, but not the ones who wanted something else.

I agree with you Jord.

And if you think about people that want a new life and not a MMO, their issue is not related to games, but something deeper.

....

Originally posted by _Jord_

I assert that these people are looking for something that no MMO will ever offer - a life. They will never get that, and thus will never be happy.

Untrue.

The MMORPG is changing, but the changes are not in innovation, depth, challenge, complexity, creativity, or even accessibility.

Instead, we have payment schemes, systems, online shops for (a) levels, (b) items, (c) other. 

We want change.  But we want creative change.  Not changes in content or gameplay to make online shops and payment schemes more profitable.

people are saying every mmo that has come out lately just sucks.  well that is what mmos are now so i guess people need to stop whining so much about them or just stop playing mmos period.  its also almost impossible to make a "real life game" like most people expect into a video game, its not that easy.   

Originally posted by _Jord_

I see it all over the Internet, but especially here.

Everyone has a whole slew of ideas of what makes the perfect MMO. Perhaps it is a nostalgic wink back to UO of the late 90s. Perhaps it is a twist on their current favorite game. Perhaps it is some absurd idea that if THEY were in control of an MMORPG, it would be special.

In the end, though, whiners remain whiners. There seem to be a lot of people on this board that hate every mainstream MMO for various reasons ranging from "it's too hard" to "it's too easy" and everything imaginable in between.

I assert that these people are looking for something that no MMO will ever offer - a life. They will never get that, and thus will never be happy.

 

AMIRITE??

 

By andd large people are happy. They just don't come here to bitch about being happy so they're never heard.

Originally posted by declaredemer

Originally posted by _Jord_

I assert that these people are looking for something that no MMO will ever offer - a life. They will never get that, and thus will never be happy.

 

Untrue.

 

 

The MMORPG is changing, but the changes are not in innovation, depth, challenge, complexity, creativity, or even accessibility.

 

Instead, we have payment schemes, systems, online shops for (a) levels, (b) items, (c) other. 

 

We want change.  But we want creative change.  Not changes in content or gameplay to make online shops and payment schemes more profitable.

 

Well said mate!

PS - Jord, stop whining :D heehehe

Ok ... the part about looking for a life was just thrown in there for fun.

But in truth, I have seen a lot of legit gripe over every game that has come out recently. I mean, there were two HUGE titles released in the past year (AoC and WAR) and both didn't do nearly as well as they could because while they proised innovation, they failed on some level.

I don't really know ... There are no games on the horizon right now except Darkfall. I wish I could get excited about it, but everything about the game has been so vague I just can't imagine it being very good.

So, I hereby join the league of people looking for a game that doesn't, and will never, exist. I'll just maintain my subs to WoW and EVE, playing occasionally to stave off boredom while focusing on staying alive IRL :(

 Plus they're all going to die someday. That's another reason not to be happy.

Of course you are right. Some people just don't like the current MMO market.

But people will be happy one day. Once that game comes out. Most if not all the UO enthusiasts are wanting to play Darkfall; and if it succeeds then they will be happy.

People whine. Yes no kidding. We didn't need another thread to prove it.

Originally posted by flguy147

people are saying every mmo that has come out lately just sucks.  well that is what mmos are now so i guess people need to stop whining so much about them or just stop playing mmos period. 

Every President in the history of the United States (at least in the popular vote era, going back to about 1824) has had more than 38% of the country vote against him--and usually in a two-way race.  Few people anywhere on the political spectrum would say that we've never had a good President in that time.  Rather, the disagreement is over which presidents were good.

People, as a whole will never be happy. There is nothing that will please everyone, but individuals can be happy. You can't just write everyone's concerns off as whining. What may make me happy, will more than likely make someone else unhappy. Some people want to see MMO's that are more complex  with very detailed RPG aspects, while others want them more streamlined with fast paced combat. You can't make a game that pleases everyone and you will always have people that will complain that they don't like certain aspects of that game. It doesn't make them whiners or their views invalid. I think that the biggest reason that many people have with the mainstream MMO's is that they are all trying to be too much alike. They are trying to be mainstream and cater to a wide base of people instead of focusing on a smaller niche.  If they don't give you anything new, you are going to hear all the same complaints.

Most of the complaints I see here are, frankly, groundless.  WoW has blown the MMO market wide open and there's currently many, many MMOs (certainly more than are listed here) on the market that cater to a wide variety of gaming styles.

The biggest thing I see here is that a lot of people won't even consider trying an MMO unless it has umptygazillion subscribers, which isn't a very accurate way of assessing how much a particular game is going to match any given play style. 

A lot of people also see one fairly large game doing something they don't like, then immediately assume everyone else is doing it too, and proclaim much doom and gloom.

And, lastly, sites like this tend to attract fanboys and haters like flies to shit.  Despite the fact that they seem live to do nothing more than choke the shit out of each other and anyone who dares voice an opinion that might go contrary to their own, they're just different sides of the same coin and their fanatisicm actually alienates people from their cause.  And they clog up forums with posts nobody cares about, nobody wants to see,  or everyone has seen a million times already and is tired of looking at.

Originally posted by x_rast_x

Most of the complaints I see here are, frankly, groundless.  WoW has blown the MMO market wide open and there's currently many, many MMOs (certainly more than are listed here) on the market that cater to a wide variety of gaming styles.

The biggest thing I see here is that a lot of people won't even consider trying an MMO unless it has umptygazillion subscribers, which isn't a very accurate way of assessing how much a particular game is going to match any given play style. 

A lot of people also see one fairly large game doing something they don't like, then immediately assume everyone else is doing it too, and proclaim much doom and gloom.

And, lastly, sites like this tend to attract fanboys and haters like flies to shit.  Despite the fact that they seem live to do nothing more than choke the shit out of each other and anyone who dares voice an opinion that might go contrary to their own, they're just different sides of the same coin and their fanatisicm actually alienates people from their cause.  And they clog up forums with posts nobody cares about, nobody wants to see,  or everyone has seen a million times already and is tired of looking at.

Well said and I totally agree with that and the OP....

and.

"Nobody's happy, ok!? Happiness comes in small doses folks. It's a cigarette, or a chocolate cookie, or a five second orgasm. That's it, ok!" - from Denis.

I agree with the OP.

For this reason I'm going to stick with EQ2 til it dies now. The community is nice, the game is still being developed and the grind is heavy but every second adds up.

You can make people on this particular site happy. Just say "sandbox", "like the old days", "WoW sucks", "no more themepark carebears", and maybe "meaningful PvP" and you have 95% of the community on your side.

But generally, yes, you can't make everyone happy.

Non-MMO vets who are okay with how the genre turned out nowadays, speak now or forever hold your peace.

Originally posted by _Jord_

I see it all over the Internet, but especially here.

Everyone has a whole slew of ideas of what makes the perfect MMO. Perhaps it is a nostalgic wink back to UO of the late 90s. Perhaps it is a twist on their current favorite game. Perhaps it is some absurd idea that if THEY were in control of an MMORPG, it would be special.

In the end, though, whiners remain whiners. There seem to be a lot of people on this board that hate every mainstream MMO for various reasons ranging from "it's too hard" to "it's too easy" and everything imaginable in between.

I assert that these people are looking for something that no MMO will ever offer - a life. They will never get that, and thus will never be happy.

 

AMIRITE??

 

Of course your right. There has been quiet a few threads on the subject as well. All it takes is one to look at the front page of the discussion forum from to time to time to see. When every other post is "Why the MMO Industry sucks!!!!" or "The current batch of MMO's dont get it, MMO heading down hill",,,, my favorite being of course, "If I made an MMO it would be"

Most dont realize they are burnt on the genre and play each and every mmo that comes out on release for 1-3 weeks only to come here and gripe on how bad the game sucks. Personally I think it just has to do with the fact that most all of us enjoyed our first MMO because it was our first it was all new. For me it was UO, for others it might have been EQ, WOW, etc.......

I think a lot of people are quick to dish a game when they dont get that new feeling they did on their first MMO. My advice take a break.  I did that 3 years to be exact and now I am enjoying WAR, and things most gripe about on these forums arent bothering me atm. I am sure if I just came from another MMO I would be griping as well.

Originally posted by Ascension08

You can make people on this particular site happy. Just say "sandbox", "like the old days", "WoW sucks", "no more themepark carebears", and maybe "meaningful PvP" and you have 95% of the community on your side.

But generally, yes, you can't make everyone happy.

Non-MMO vets who are okay with how the genre turned out nowadays, speak now or forever hold your peace.

The problem is, I was there from the beginning of UO when you had the ultimate sandbox. And all you heard was whinning about the pks, and I guess Origin at the time heard so much bitching they ended up splitting the lands, the rest is history. I think if most get the sandbox they are wanting the first thing a lot will do is start putting restrictions on it like they did with UO.

Actually UO is a the best example period on the sandbox theory. At first the lands were governed by the players, people cried they changed it. At first UO was not about items, matter of a fact the best equipment came from player blacksmiths. Dungeons were fun but wasnt neseccary, chat was very common unlike what you see into days games of "Level 60 Healer LFG" There was none of this.

Point being is they had that, and after the griping it was turned into Diablo 2. Whos to say the same thing would not happen again.

I dont think you can derive overall happiness from any one thing in life besides faith.

Having said that however In this context you are correct that one game will not please all people period. Too many people have different tastes and desires when it comes to virtual world gaming.

What I dont like is the established developer and marketing community assuming that everyone wants the same thing. I WAS happy with my chosen game (SWG Pre- Osik) and would have happily kept playing it indefinitely if some corporate di'kutla Mir'osik hadnt come along and said " hey WOW has way more players than we do. Lets change our game to be more like theirs" thus alienating the players that werent interested in playing a WOW clone. They traded a solid fanbase for a shot at someone elses. Which as we saw failed miserably.

There needs to be many different games to accomodate the many different people who play them. Instead we have the entire industry gambling vegas style all or nothing odds on making a game that will rival WOWs financial success. Its ridiculous.

As long as we have ths lack of diversity at the top end of the genre, people are going to bitch.  Right now, we have a bunch of good entry level MMOs...and that's about it.  Most of us on this site aren't new to MMOs, we already know how to play them, we've already been there, we don't need an MMO to hold our hand and teach us.