I played GW was well, and it really felt closed in, very closed in. The instances have you running down a rail, and you cannot stray off the beatin' path very Far. But like somone else posted earlier, you Can run all the way from Evendim, to The Shire, Through Bree, Trollshaws, all the way to the Misty Mountains, and never ever hit a load screen. And then to add to that, the areas are huge with many things around them to find. I mean even Vanguard has mini load times called chunks! It is an amazing feat of code and I am sure lots of hard work and  too many late hours went into figuring out how to accomplish that.  Zones are EQ I and EQ II. Every little area has a load screen. That is a "zone". Now I wish for you to get to The Shire, and run for the Misty Mountains and see just how cool that can be. I personally think you will be amazed.

Originally posted by Dethnoble

I know you guys find it easy to disqualify someone's opinion on something especially if it don't match your own opinion, to each his own.  But for the first time in my life, including the free MMOs, I found an MMO I had to force myself to play for a week (I ended up trying it out for two weeks).  Since then I've found myself feeling that way with 99% of the free MMOs but never for any commercial level MMO like LoTRO.   Literally, after the first time playing I had to force myself to log into it the next time.

When you look at the game areas from a distance things look very nice but when you get up close everything becomes stagnant and stale, empty and shallow.  The wilderness feels dead and empty with predictable patterns to placement of boars, sometimes other things, then more boars.

Let me ask you guys something who is dismissing my opinions and feelings on the game as if they don't count.  Describe, in detail, why I'm wrong and why you like LoTRO.

Furthermore, I'm willing to bet that if LoTRO/Middle-Earth lore wasn't attached to this game it'd have flopped bigtime.

I don't think the issue is with the negatives. I can list a huge, er... "list" of negatives about LOTRO.

But LOTRO is very far from Guild Wars.

First off, Guild wars has an instanced world. Though LOTRO has some instances the world itself is not.
Secondly, the maps are not small and though one follows the fellowship east which can add to confusion about the world being linnear, their is north and south. With the exception of some high mountain areas you pretty much can go wherever you want.

Now, if one is talking about absolute exploration in discovering new dungeons to plunder, then "no" LOTRO doesn't really cater to that. One can go exploring, find an interesting cave but not be able to enter because you don't have the appropriate quest. Still, there are dungeons and cave areas to explore if you want to do that. Besides the Great Barrow, Goblin Town and of course the entirety of Moria, there is a large cave area in the west of Eredu Luin... it's higher lvl but there. I'm sure there are other areas such as Carn Dum that one can explore as well.

And you don't have to follow the main quest. Heck, I'm only at the start of book 8 and I've been playing since Beta. You could just do small quests here and there. You can also find a goblin or orc area or any number of things, and grind if you'd like. Or grind on Trolls south of Evendim.

The only loading screens that I know of are one from Ered Luin to the Shire and the second leading to the area that leads into Moria (if you are talking loading screens between maps).

So this is not opinion, it's fact. There is so much open space in LOTRO that it is not anything like GW.

But if you want to talk about neatly spaced out mobs that just stand around waiting to be killed, yeah, LOTRO has that and I hate it. But that doesn't make it like Guild Wars.

And of course the classes, races, pvp is nothing like Guild Wars.

So if he wants to talk about the downfalls of LOTRO, then fine, I think he would find some arguments but some sympathetic ears. But to say the world is like GW is really beyond the pale.

Originally posted by zspawn

Originally posted by Dethnoble

It's hard to explain, or pinpoint, exactly why LoTRO felt like GW to me when I played.  Perhaps, how shallow the game actually was, how nerfed character development was or perhaps how the maps were designed and boxed in with tiny esque zones.

 

I stopped reading here.

Wait...what ? Tiny esque zones? :P

 

How funny that's where I stopped reading too.

I have also noticed since the announcement that LOTRO has won some more awards a lot of negative posts have popped up once again. Isn't it funny how that works.

Well this is a first. Most just call it a copy of wow and go on with their day. 

Originally posted by DrSpanky

Well this is a first. Most just call it a copy of wow and go on with their day. 

Well I could more link it to WoW style gameplay than GW for sure.

Kyleran, I have no alts here on mmorpg.com  so please don't make anymore baseless accusations. 

Secondly, LoTRO FELT alot like Guild Wars to ME.  Are you saying I really didn't feel that way? That you all jumped in my body and knew exactly how I "FELT"?

It's easy to see why game companies continue to put out shallow MMOs.   All they gotta do is slap an IP on them and away they go.

Dethnoble, your fellings of LotRo is yours and yours alone. No one is telling you how you feel about that game my friend. Only pointing out that LotRo is not like GW, and Eve online really isnt like WoW, ect. ect. I hope you one day are happy when  you find something you like, as it is all subjective, and we all like what we like, and dislike what we do not like.

Drink a beer, and relax! =)

Edit * I put an A where an A shouldnt have been **

Originally posted by Dethnoble

Kyleran, I have no alts here on mmorpg.com  so please don't make anymore baseless accusations. 

Secondly, LoTRO FELT alot like Guild Wars to ME.  Are you saying I really didn't feel that way? That you all jumped in my body and knew exactly how I "FELT"?

It's easy to see why game companies continue to put out shallow MMOs.   All they gotta do is slap an IP on them and away they go.

 

I suppose if that is your feeling then fine, however it just seems like an odd comparison when you can compare LOTRO with any number of other games out there that might seem more fitting.

The only analogy that I can think of is comparing a bicycle to a car. Sure they both have wheels and you sit down and steer them but I would think a car would be better compared to a truck and a bicycle would be better compared to a Tricycle.

No point in going into details as you can't really change one's "feelings" towards a game. But I played Guild Wars for 3 years (since day 1 of release), and was a little obsessed with it to say the least; it was my favorite MMORPG. Came to LoTRO about 10 months ago. Other than the core MMORPG gameplay, it FELT very different from GW (in a positive way). Lets just say, I have found a new favorite MMO and ill be here for a long time. :)

...I am hoping GW2 gets delayed for a couple years so I dont have to split my time (or maybe even ignore GW2 for a while) with LoTRO.

Originally posted by Dethnoble

Kyleran, I have no alts here on mmorpg.com  so please don't make anymore baseless accusations. 

Secondly, LoTRO FELT alot like Guild Wars to ME.  Are you saying I really didn't feel that way? That you all jumped in my body and knew exactly how I "FELT"?

It's easy to see why game companies continue to put out shallow MMOs.   All they gotta do is slap an IP on them and away they go.

 

This is a fun quote since the only feelings we all have direct access to are our own. To know the LOTRO = GW feeling requires that you possess some kind of a blueprint or the perfect example of this LOTRO = GW feeling inside you or a pile of equilant feelings from others that make up the notion of this feeling. You have nothing, like anybody else, to check this feeling against, not even your own feeling from one moment to another since the former will have disappeared when the latter arrives. It is more appropriate to say you expressed your feeling that LOTRO = GW. When this expression arrives in the community of MMO-gamers it is assessed as false or irrelevant because it doesn't match the notion about LOTRO and GW established within the community as a whole, through experience of gameplay, various expressions about the games like your own, thoughvery different, and through arguments about the game among players within the community. In short not every subjective statement about a game is relevant as information about the game in question. Yours I am afraid only qualify as information about your relationship with LOTRO and you as an MMO-player.

I read your post with interest since I like GW for short amount of times due to the storyline, but get tired of the highly instanced world, which is the major feature that sets it a part from other games, to achieve a more interesting storyline and gameplay. The thread that followed conviced me that LOTRO might be the game for me because it has little in commun with GW except of good graphics for a wide range of computers. So I might buy it though I am a little reluctant to MMOs in general at the moment. 

Originally posted by zspawn

Originally posted by Dethnoble

It's hard to explain, or pinpoint, exactly why LoTRO felt like GW to me when I played.  Perhaps, how shallow the game actually was, how nerfed character development was or perhaps how the maps were designed and boxed in with tiny esque zones.

 

I stopped reading here.

Wait...what ? Tiny esque zones? :P

 

That's where i stop too.

Its true that is your opinion, and you are entitled, but when fans and critics of a game call out an obvious mischaracterization, your probably wrong.   I know if I started a thread and said, I tried WoW, didn't like it.  It felt too much like Eve, Fans and critics of WoW are going to be like WTF are you talking about?

You'll be surprised by the number of people who feel the same way about LoTRO as I do.  Who actually agree that it's shallowness and linearity give it a Guild Wars feel.   Just because this website is a LoTRO leaning fansite (proof is in the game of the year votes) doesn't mean that I'm wrong on the way I feel about it and how most people don't care to play it.

Originally posted by Dethnoble

You'll be surprised by the number of people who feel the same way about LoTRO as I do.  Who actually agree that it's shallowness and linearity give it a Guild Wars feel.   Just because this website is a LoTRO leaning fansite (proof is in the game of the year votes) doesn't mean that I'm wrong on the way I feel about it and how most people don't care to play it.

SInce GW is one of the most played MMOs your argument should suggest that alot of people would play LOTRO not the opposit. In fact you argue that a lot more people should play LOTRO due to its resemblances with one of the top 5 MMOs when it comes to number of players.
 

Your attempts at establishing facts and to argue for a certain statement are so strikingly confused it only makes me more curious about LOTRO.

YOur feelings may not be wrong but you ARE wrong about the small zone size as has been proven to you numerous times on this thread -- proven irrefutably since you've failed to defend yourself there.   Folks have attacked your comparison directly citing that since you have played very little of the game (FACT not opinion) you are basing your understanding on the expanse of the world on very limited game play.   Have you ever run from the shire to Rivendel?  I doubt it -- it would take you too long frankly and frankly I think you DO have a short attention span based on your posts only.

The issue isn't just how you felt -- it's the to use your own words it's the shallowness and total lack of support of any of your arguments.   ie) zone size -- wrong.  creature placement -- albeit it true but I've yet to play an MMO that didn't rely on formulaic pathing and positioning.  useless crafting -- DEAD WRONG (crafted gear has been some of the most sought after in this game so totally wrong in your assessment). and frankly your posts have slid together in to such a useless mire of muck soooo beneath your claim to professionalism and education that it's not even funny.

Come back with facts that you can support before you demand the same from the community.  Otherwise -- a troll is a troll is a troll....

I once played D&D and stopped cause the melee combat sytem felt too much like AoC.

I also played DaoC and stopped cause it reminded me of the good old days of Warhammer Online.

Then I switched FFXI and couldn't beleieve how much they copied from WoW!!! Instances, really!!!

In disgust I left for EvE and argued with a guy in Jita that it too closely resembled a combination of MapleStory with the combat of Hello Kitty Adventure Island.

/troll fed

If a troll posts in the day, does it turn into stone?

i know this is going to probably invalidate what i posted earlier and make me look like an a$$, but i couldn't resist given the lore

No offence Dethnoble, i'm only playing

As far as IP recognition  go, I'd say yes to a certain extent but also no, I don't think the game attracts many new players anymore by the simple fact that "it's Tolkien". Fact is, If Turbine had produced an unplayable piece of you know what and slapped Tolkien's name on it it wouldn't have taken long for this to be a well-known fact and the game would have died a quick death, people would have run through the Shire and Bree and said, hey that was nice starting areas but the actual gameplay sucks and the rest of the world is really shallow and badly designed, it's not worth staying even if it's Tolkien!

Now the fact is that Turbine has become known for a generally smooth launch of LotrO, and then being very generous with adding free new content for it's players, and with the release of Moria it has also started to filter out to the general MMO-playing population that "Hey, they did a really good job in designing that Moria-dungeon, and the Legendary Item system, that sounds pretty cool, my friends who play LotrO tell me it's really cool, maybe I should give it a shot!"

Finally, the inescapable fact is that this game is the only post-WoW P2P MMO to actually successfully release it's first paid expansion, and a generally well-received one at that (which of course brings out the haters even more but that's another story ;)), and this after maintaining a healthy population playing the game and enjoying it without any significant dips during it's first 1,5 years.

Guess that makes it similar to GW (to try and bring it back to original topic) lot's of people play GW still, but then again it's free after purchase so can't really be compared, although since Lord of the Rings also has the life-time subscription option (that I took them up on when game was released) I guess it can feel a bit similar, I know I have them both sitting on my hard drive and that I don't have to pay anything more for either of them, apart from paid expansions, so yeah playing them feels very much the same, like two free games that I can play and enjoy whenever I want :)

Originally posted by Dethnoble

You'll be surprised by the number of people who feel the same way about LoTRO as I do.  Who actually agree that it's shallowness and linearity give it a Guild Wars feel.   Just because this website is a LoTRO leaning fansite (proof is in the game of the year votes) doesn't mean that I'm wrong on the way I feel about it and how most people don't care to play it.

Yeah right the number of people who feel the same as you

Look at all the accolades Turbine & LoTRO have won so far this year.  Apparently there is a lot more people who don't feel the same as you.  But it very obvious you don't like the game and or are bitter towards it in some crazy way.  All I can say is move on champ...

buh buh now...

Originally posted by Dethnoble

It's hard to explain, or pinpoint, exactly why LoTRO felt like GW to me when I played.  Perhaps, how shallow the game actually was, how nerfed character development was or perhaps how the maps were designed and boxed in with tiny esque zones.

Towns felt so dinky and NPCs seem unnaturally laid out in an formulaic pattern.  Creatures and  monsters, in some ways much worse than GW, felt lifeless and dull as they were laid out in a formulaic way as well.  It was easy to recognize the pattern to the game and it was hard to escape the fakeness of it despite how gorgeous 'looking' LoTRO was.

Perhaps, the reason why most people like it is because of the lore.  I am a fan of all the Middle-Earth material, not just LoTR, but I also read the books and watched the movie.  Playing LoTRO felt more like a lesser quality version of movies in terms of story presentation and a lesser detailed encount compared to the books.  It didn't help the fact that I knew that my characters never truly existed in the LoTR lore and thus there really was no meaning to my characters.

Ultimately, I came away with the feeling of being  in the audience and not one of the characters on stage.  When I play MMOs I want to be one of the characters in the world, I want to participate in the world and I want to feel like my character truly existed in the lore even if they were never written into it.   For me, LoTRO really feels more like a Guild Wars than even a WoW or EQ II and probably, IMHO, should have been released in the same overall design and multiplayer mode.

Again, I don't want to take away from LoTRO's highpoints.  It combines great graphics with very few bugs and targets a wider range of computers.  IMHO, because of it's ability to be playable on wider range of systems than games such as Warhammer and AoC, Turbine deserves alot of credit.

These are nothing more than my opinions and views on LoTRO.  However, I won't feel sorry for companies like Mythic, Turbine, Funcom and even Blizzard when their archaic templates become jokes because a truly inspired game developer creates a truly deep, innovative but accessible MMO.  Until that day comes though we're left with voting for which turd has the shiniest coating or which game has the highest concentration of fans in a particular website voting for their game.

Okay, I disagree with most of the rest of your post as well, but acknowledge and respect it as your opinion...

However, this part really made me do a double-take...

"boxed in with tiny esque zones."

Have you ever seen how long it takes to ride from one side of a zone to another? Pick a  zone. Any zone. Are you discussing perhaps a single, small area, and not an entire region?

If so then, okay.... areas, which make up "regions" are not "huge". However they're also not "boxed in". You mostly flow seamlessly from one to the other without any indication of a "barrier".

Even on a horse that only follows a single trail through a given area, it can be a pretty long ride; never mind all the different places you can get side-tracked to... Nevermind how long of a run it can be from one side of an area to the other on foot.

Are you sure you were playing the same LoTRO as the rest of us?

Also.. this comment:
"when their archaic templates become jokes because a truly inspired game developer creates a truly deep, innovative but accessible MMO."
 

Is likely to never happen. Because you can't have a MMO that's "truly deep" *and* "accessible". The two don't work together because most people who want an "accessible" game consider any real "depth" to be a pointless waste of time, slowing them down from getting to end-game.