It's hard to explain, or pinpoint, exactly why LoTRO felt like GW to me when I played.  Perhaps, how shallow the game actually was, how nerfed character development was or perhaps how the maps were designed and boxed in with tiny esque zones.

Towns felt so dinky and NPCs seem unnaturally laid out in an formulaic pattern.  Creatures and  monsters, in some ways much worse than GW, felt lifeless and dull as they were laid out in a formulaic way as well.  It was easy to recognize the pattern to the game and it was hard to escape the fakeness of it despite how gorgeous 'looking' LoTRO was.

Perhaps, the reason why most people like it is because of the lore.  I am a fan of all the Middle-Earth material, not just LoTR, but I also read the books and watched the movie.  Playing LoTRO felt more like a lesser quality version of movies in terms of story presentation and a lesser detailed encount compared to the books.  It didn't help the fact that I knew that my characters never truly existed in the LoTR lore and thus there really was no meaning to my characters.

Ultimately, I came away with the feeling of being  in the audience and not one of the characters on stage.  When I play MMOs I want to be one of the characters in the world, I want to participate in the world and I want to feel like my character truly existed in the lore even if they were never written into it.   For me, LoTRO really feels more like a Guild Wars than even a WoW or EQ II and probably, IMHO, should have been released in the same overall design and multiplayer mode.

Again, I don't want to take away from LoTRO's highpoints.  It combines great graphics with very few bugs and targets a wider range of computers.  IMHO, because of it's ability to be playable on wider range of systems than games such as Warhammer and AoC, Turbine deserves alot of credit.

These are nothing more than my opinions and views on LoTRO.  However, I won't feel sorry for companies like Mythic, Turbine, Funcom and even Blizzard when their archaic templates become jokes because a truly inspired game developer creates a truly deep, innovative but accessible MMO.  Until that day comes though we're left with voting for which turd has the shiniest coating or which game has the highest concentration of fans in a particular website voting for their game.

I agree 95% with what you said, just for me it never felt like guildwars... i have not played guild wars long enough and my only memory for guildwars was that it was a crazy chat with ridiculous shouting and ooc yelling all over the place and that the dancing of character models was lovely animated.

EDIT oh and of course the reason why i quit it - in guild wars (when i played) it was common tactics to hit mobs from places where they could not hit you... that felt so much like cheating to me that i quit.

In LOTRO the community is not yelling so much, most are helpful - probably because they have nothing else to do. It is  a welocme change from the few deed grinds to help a lower player with a quest you have done 15 levels earlier.

Anyway - a well written review honest and clear.

Whats your fav. MMO at the moment?

Originally posted by Dethnoble

It's hard to explain, or pinpoint, exactly why LoTRO felt like GW to me when I played.  Perhaps, how shallow the game actually was, how nerfed character development was or perhaps how the maps were designed and boxed in with tiny esque zones.

I stopped reading here.

Wait...what ? Tiny esque zones? :P

Yeah sorry I think your talking about some other game here.

I have played Age of Conan, Anarchy Online, Dungeons & Dragons Online, Everquest 2, Final Fantasy XI, Guild Wars, Lord of the Rings Online, Star Wars Galaxies, Ultima Online, World of Warcraft, and many others.

Though I believe you are expressing your opinion I must say you are not correct in most of what you say IMHO.

We all have choices which allow us to pay or not to pay, thing is though this game does deserve to be at the top end of any chart

Originally posted by Dethnoble

It's hard to explain, or pinpoint, exactly why LoTRO felt like GW to me when I played.  Perhaps, how shallow the game actually was, how nerfed character development was or perhaps how the maps were designed and boxed in with tiny esque zones.

Towns felt so dinky and NPCs seem unnaturally laid out in an formulaic pattern.  Creatures and  monsters, in some ways much worse than GW, felt lifeless and dull as they were laid out in a formulaic way as well.  It was easy to recognize the pattern to the game and it was hard to escape the fakeness of it despite how gorgeous 'looking' LoTRO was.

Perhaps, the reason why most people like it is because of the lore.  I am a fan of all the Middle-Earth material, not just LoTR, but I also read the books and watched the movie.  Playing LoTRO felt more like a lesser quality version of movies in terms of story presentation and a lesser detailed encount compared to the books.  It didn't help the fact that I knew that my characters never truly existed in the LoTR lore and thus there really was no meaning to my characters.

Ultimately, I came away with the feeling of being  in the audience and not one of the characters on stage.  When I play MMOs I want to be one of the characters in the world, I want to participate in the world and I want to feel like my character truly existed in the lore even if they were never written into it.   For me, LoTRO really feels more like a Guild Wars than even a WoW or EQ II and probably, IMHO, should have been released in the same overall design and multiplayer mode.

Again, I don't want to take away from LoTRO's highpoints.  It combines great graphics with very few bugs and targets a wider range of computers.  IMHO, because of it's ability to be playable on wider range of systems than games such as Warhammer and AoC, Turbine deserves alot of credit.

These are nothing more than my opinions and views on LoTRO.  However, I won't feel sorry for companies like Mythic, Turbine, Funcom and even Blizzard when their archaic templates become jokes because a truly inspired game developer creates a truly deep, innovative but accessible MMO.  Until that day comes though we're left with voting for which turd has the shiniest coating or which game has the highest concentration of fans in a particular website voting for their game.

I am sorry. But this is so wrong. I can not even accept it as oppinion on the game.

I dont know how long you played, or did you even play past the newbie instance , but if you did - and you only passed trough Shire, town of Bree or seen zones like Trollshaws, or Forochel. You will see that LOTRO is a game with as much detail in world design as let say TES OBLIVION or intricate storyline as let say Neverwinter Nights.

What you do notice correctly  ( And I think everyone agrees)  is the fact that MMO's are not trully deep world simulations. But this comment is in no way related to LOTRO, but to every single MMO in existance. So its unfair to label this exclusively to LOTRO.

And finally - saying that LOTRO felt like Guild Wars?

Yes how? Gameplay wise its 180 degree different. Graphically its different. Storywise its different.

It even has different subscription model and server structure....

If anything , only fair comparisson would be WOW or EQ - cause these games are DIKU based , like LOTRO...

So , in short. Your statement does not  hold water in any way....

Originally posted by Dethnoble

It's hard to explain, or pinpoint, exactly why LoTRO felt like GW to me when I played.  Perhaps, how shallow the game actually was, how nerfed character development was or perhaps how the maps were designed and boxed in with tiny esque zones.

Towns felt so dinky and NPCs seem unnaturally laid out in an formulaic pattern.  Creatures and  monsters, in some ways much worse than GW, felt lifeless and dull as they were laid out in a formulaic way as well.  It was easy to recognize the pattern to the game and it was hard to escape the fakeness of it despite how gorgeous 'looking' LoTRO was.

Perhaps, the reason why most people like it is because of the lore.  I am a fan of all the Middle-Earth material, not just LoTR, but I also read the books and watched the movie.  Playing LoTRO felt more like a lesser quality version of movies in terms of story presentation and a lesser detailed encount compared to the books.  It didn't help the fact that I knew that my characters never truly existed in the LoTR lore and thus there really was no meaning to my characters.

Ultimately, I came away with the feeling of being  in the audience and not one of the characters on stage.  When I play MMOs I want to be one of the characters in the world, I want to participate in the world and I want to feel like my character truly existed in the lore even if they were never written into it.   For me, LoTRO really feels more like a Guild Wars than even a WoW or EQ II and probably, IMHO, should have been released in the same overall design and multiplayer mode.

Again, I don't want to take away from LoTRO's highpoints.  It combines great graphics with very few bugs and targets a wider range of computers.  IMHO, because of it's ability to be playable on wider range of systems than games such as Warhammer and AoC, Turbine deserves alot of credit.

These are nothing more than my opinions and views on LoTRO.  However, I won't feel sorry for companies like Mythic, Turbine, Funcom and even Blizzard when their archaic templates become jokes because a truly inspired game developer creates a truly deep, innovative but accessible MMO.  Until that day comes though we're left with voting for which turd has the shiniest coating or which game has the highest concentration of fans in a particular website voting for their game.

I played Guild Wars for quite a while and LOTRO is extremely far from GW.

My only thought is that you didn't get out of the tutorial area? I can agree about NPC's standing around or mobs "placed" neatly across the landscape but I think tha'ts where it ends.

And each town is not supposed to be a sprawling metropolis. Bree is the only large town and one of the few social centers.

hrmm I also would ask the question -- did you leave the tutorial instances and level past 6?   I'm astonished by your assessment but to each their own.   Guild wars was far different from LOTRO.    I mean I think about Bree -- where would you like them to put npc's differently?  They are in shops and buildings and sometimes they have outdoor shops in markets -- I mean ....isn't that normal?    But anywho -- to each their own if that's how you saw it good luck finding a game.

 No idea, but it doesn't sound like the game that I play... 

Play GW constantly play LOTRO constantly the only thing they have in common is they are both fantasy MMO's that's pretty much it.

So OP.....

i guess the instancing is kind of similar? But these are mmo's with strong storylines it really sets them apart from other 'text-based' story driven mmos.  

But other than that they are nothing alike...

Hey OP...  Here's a dollar for ya so you can buy a clue.

I'm all for people expressing their opinions but, your assessment of the game is so way off it's pathetic.

I know you guys find it easy to disqualify someone's opinion on something especially if it don't match your own opinion, to each his own.  But for the first time in my life, including the free MMOs, I found an MMO I had to force myself to play for a week (I ended up trying it out for two weeks).  Since then I've found myself feeling that way with 99% of the free MMOs but never for any commercial level MMO like LoTRO.   Literally, after the first time playing I had to force myself to log into it the next time.

When you look at the game areas from a distance things look very nice but when you get up close everything becomes stagnant and stale, empty and shallow.  The wilderness feels dead and empty with predictable patterns to placement of boars, sometimes other things, then more boars.

Let me ask you guys something who is dismissing my opinions and feelings on the game as if they don't count.  Describe, in detail, why I'm wrong and why you like LoTRO.

Furthermore, I'm willing to bet that if LoTRO/Middle-Earth lore wasn't attached to this game it'd have flopped bigtime.

Originally posted by Dethnoble

I know you guys find it easy to disqualify someone's opinion on something especially if it don't match your own opinion, to each his own. 

Um... isn't that what you are doing now?  Its all subjective anyway, including your own analysis...

I'll agree Lord of the Rings Online would have flopped if it wasn't related to middle earth...but then the name would be kind of funny wouldn't it? I don't think I agree with anything else though.

Originally posted by rinoamw

Originally posted by Dethnoble

I know you guys find it easy to disqualify someone's opinion on something especially if it don't match your own opinion, to each his own. 

 

Um... isn't that what you are doing now?  Its all subjective anyway, including your own analysis...

 

 

 

I'm being told I'm wrong for the way I felt about the game.   I'm sorry I stepped on the feet of the LoTRO fans but I'm being honest on how I felt.  That is an honest assessment and there is nothing wrong about about my asssessment.   You might have a different feeling about things and you might like the way LoTRO was designed but I don't.

However, you cannot deny that from looting to mob placement, everything is formulaic.  Furthermore, you cannot argue that the world is actually pretty small and that it's zoned with alot of instancing where the main parts of the story are actually done the same way Guild Wars is done.

For me, just like Tabula Rasa and many other more recent MMOs, LoTRO was just another mediocre offering.  In fact, Tabula Rasa at least had me wanted to log in a few times before it became boring.

Understand something, I played both Ultima Online and Asheron's Call for several years.   I've worked on game projects for several months and currently six months on the one I'm on now  (programming and art, longest I spent on a project was 2 1/2 years).  I'm also an artist who understands patience is paramount.  I don't have a short attention span but I do recognize when something is nothing more than a shiny cover; to me that was LoTRO.

Just because people have lower standards doesn't mean someone who expects advancement  in MMO design and presentation is wrong.

@ Dethnoble
 

Well, you are wrong in so much as it doesn't sound like you've really played the game for any length of time, to be able to give a far more objective point of view.

Yes i cannot argue that looting and mob placement isn't formulaic. But then its the same with any other mmo out there. They all follow similar looting models, and mob placement and behaviour differ little from one another as well.

What i will dispute is your claim about zone sizes.

Bree for example is huge. It takes me like 10-15 mins to run from Bree town to the border of the shire and probably about 10 mins in the other direction (towards weathertop?) That doesn't seem to be a small zone, and looking at the map, it seems like this is fairly indicative of all the 'zone' sizes. And bree is all open fields that goes as far as the eye can see (or your clip plane settings allow :P)

What i think is the biggest problem here is your terminology. It seems to me that your classification for a 'zone' is the area from one 'exit' to another 'exit' even though there is no load screen in-between?

This isn't strictly the correct way to look at a zone - as each map could be made up of multiples of what you call a "zone". In the eyes of a Lotro player (or a lore fan) who has played for a while what they classify as a zone and what you classify as a zone isn’t the same. For example the starter zone around Archet is classed under the same zone as Bree – even thought to you it seems ‘small’.

Also, you have to take into account that the game tries its best not to confuse new players and overwhelm them too much when starting out… So the area around Archet is relatively small (if this is what you actually class as a “zone”) but as you progress the zones do get larger and larger.

Remember this is an open world mmo (whereas Guild Wars isn’t). You can walk all the way from the shire to Rivendell and never encounter a load screen or anything...

 I guess the thing that riles players the most is you haven't even made comparisons to what would make an MMO feel like another.  For Example UI (and layouts) controls, questing, skills, classes - the list goes on.  With what you've said i could subsitute "Guild Wars" for "every other MMO out there".  But because you've specifically targetted both, it really comes across as a bit of a troll.  Or a flame.

BTW,  I really don’t see how your ‘credentials’ verify or even strengthen your opinion? I have my own but I don’t feel the need to flash them here to validate my argument. Just a small pointer though :)

I played GW for over two years and honestly can't see any comparison between it and LoTRO. The only thing I'd admit to is that both games have that really solid melee combat feel to them.

Tiny zone?

Small towns? 

Hmm not sure where that came from.

Maybe I'm missing something here. Oh well I really enjoyed GW (GREAT PVP) and am having a awesome time in LoTRO. I guess the only comparison I can make is that they are both fun games. 

cheers

 My credentials weren't used to verify or prove anything, they were to show I have patience or that this isn't a case of a short attention span.

My playtime consisted mostly of testing out all the classes (to see how much the classes played a roll in my dislike) but it always came down to the environment around me.   Furthermore, I also tested crafting and it didn't feel worthwhile.  Though, I admit, that (I believe it was called Scripting) where you found scripts in jars and what not as harvest gathering was a pretty cool concept. 

It felt generic and dull overall though and like I said it's really hard to pinpoint exactly why it felt alot like Guild Wars but it did.  The character advancement system was also very shallow.  I mean you had deeds, but for me, they were just a gimmick moreso and used to extent content.

Look, LoTRO was well polished at launch and had arguably the best launch in MMO history.  It's probably the most accessible MMO on the market and it has it's appeals.  I just think it's overhyped and thrives on IP recognition alone with a very casual, but a highly loyal fanbase.

Originally posted by Dethnoble

   Furthermore, I also tested crafting and it didn't feel worthwhile.  Though, I admit, that (I believe it was called Scripting) where you found scripts in jars and what not as harvest gathering was a pretty cool concept. 

And that's where you are so so wrong!

LOTRO is basically the only game (except for EQ2) where crafting actually is worthwhile!

Hence, they now even introduced Crafting Guilds factions with great recipes to be acquired.

Cheers

i find this assessment hilarious. lotro is nothing like guild wars. for one, some of the towns and areas are huge (rivendell and bree for example) the character advancement? whats wrong with it, you have so many choices, its not even funny, you just have to do a bit of work to unlock the traits. i have two level 20's in GW and just recently started playing lotro and now have a 42 warden. i really havent noticed ANY similarities.