Originally posted by Tinybina

Originally posted by NightbladeX1

Yes, but Warhammer Online has no combat system to fall back on. I reluctant to leave WoW back in the day because I liked how combat was. WAR lacks fluid combat and any type of finesse.

 

Seriously these classes just feel freaking imcomplete and the pace is way to freaking slow.  Add the slow combat to the server lag and the fact that all the NA servers are in Virgina (some people will  get better pings then others on the other side of the country) and you just have a horrible setup.

People can say what they want about WOW but there classes are actually fun to play and 20 times more complete then Warhammer IMO..   I think thats another reason WAR never really made a splash in the MMO market.

Ping times haven't made a difference since the days of Ultima Online. It makes no difference in WAR.

In fact, the games are largely apples-and-oranges.

A few classes need tweaks -- but unlike WoW, WAR is not balanced on a PvE, 1-on-1 basis. Careers in WAR are designed in such a way that they're strong against certain types and weak against others, rock-paper-scissors style. From the ground-up, WAR was built to be functional in PvP.

That is why WoW's PvP sucks so badly by comparison.

There ARE problems with the combat in RvR though. Mostly it's tied to massive Crowd Control abilities, especially by Destruction classes in Tier 4, where my Swordmaster can be literally disabled for 20 seconds or more.

WAR was never destined to be a WoW-killer -- that was a fantasy thought up by people here and elsewhere. What it does is cater to the group of MMO gamers who realize how horrible WoW's PvP is, are bored with fighting against NPCs endlessly,  and want to play something less dependent on gear for less than 4 hours a night.

I don't *want* the rest of the WoW community in WAR. Their whining would ruin it.

Originally posted by grimmbot

There ARE problems with the combat in RvR though. Mostly it's tied to massive Crowd Control abilities, especially by Destruction classes in Tier 4, where my Swordmaster can be literally disabled for 20 seconds or more.

WAR was never destined to be a WoW-killer -- that was a fantasy thought up by people here and elsewhere. What it does is cater to the group of MMO gamers who realize how horrible WoW's PvP is, are bored with fighting against NPCs endlessly,  and want to play something less dependent on gear for less than 4 hours a night.

I don't *want* the rest of the WoW community in WAR. Their whining would ruin it.

Well from everything I have seen gear does help make a difference in WAR as well. Maybe not as much, but I've never seen an MMO where gear didn't matter.  So although I get your point that gear in tiers 1-3 might not be the deciding factor, from my tastes in tier 4 it is. Especially with the King scenarios the way people are talking.

As for the wow crowd. I played WoW for about two weeks and the crowd was horrible. I hated them, but that was also about 2 years ago as well. Most of the people I've met or talked that have come from WoW have been very pleasant and not rude at all. If anything, they have been very curious about the RvR aspects of Warhammer. From what I have gathered, people who left WoW to try WaR had a desire to find a game with more depth to pvp and have grown as players to expecting more than just a nice pretty PvE environment. I applaud them for that. You should never crucify someone for where they started, but how they handle themselves in their journey imo.

Although there are plenty of asshats, I cannot attach a label to all of WoW players because a large portion are bad. I only hope that the WoW players who have come to WAR start to demand more from companies developing and releasing MMO's. It's the only way we'll get better products instead of these instancing, cookie cutter games with new avatars.

i tend to agree greenie . even though war is nt perfect there is some great potential here . personally i think they need to merge servers . i really enjoy the pvp in warhammer and in general they do seam like a nice crowd compared to warcraft . wow really is like a school yeard at times which is essentially what it is . i ve been quite lucky on my horde character there and i ve managed to get into a nice friendly mature guild i cant say the same for my alliance character . lord of the rings in my opinion has a friendly atmosphere to it as well .

Originally posted by googajoob7

i tend to agree greenie . even though war is nt perfect there is some great potential here . personally i think they need to merge servers . i really enjoy the pvp in warhammer and in general they do seam like a nice crowd compared to warcraft . wow really is like a school yeard at times which is essentially what it is . i ve been quite lucky on my horde character there and i ve managed to get into a nice friendly mature guild i cant say the same for my alliance character . lord of the rings in my opinion has a friendly atmosphere to it as well .

Right now I'm jumping between EvE and the Lotr free trial. Although I liked the classes in WAR much more than any game not named daoc, I don't like the pvp. Sometimes the scenarios were really fun, but most of the time they're just bleh. The ORvR is horrible which I attribute more to the world design and the core design of the game being made around scenarios pre-beta tester strike. You could put all DaoC mechanics and classes in WaR and the RvR would still be horrible due to crappy world design for RvR purposes.

 Disables, Knockbacks, Knockdowns should all be removed from the game. DaoC's CC was perfect imo.

I just don't understand how companies can't make a game that is great.  Take DaoC mechanics and RvR, WoW questing and leveling, LotR world designs and graphics and you'd have one helluva good game.

I am hoping Darkfall delivers but my expectations are not high. So tired of being let down.

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Originally posted by grimmbot

 
WAR was never destined to be a WoW-killer -- that was a fantasy thought up by people here and elsewhere. What it does is cater to the group of MMO gamers who realize how horrible WoW's PvP is, are bored with fighting against NPCs endlessly,  and want to play something less dependent on gear for less than 4 hours a night.
I don't *want* the rest of the WoW community in WAR. Their whining would ruin it.

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In his discussion with gamesindustry.biz, Mark is upfront about competing with Blizzard. 'We're in this space to be successful and, when you have a competitor that is as successful and important to the games industry as WoW has been, you don't go into this space unless you're willing to spend money and spend time and really compete against them.'

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Probably from statements like this, and plenty others related to it from Mark Jacobs and Paul Barnett.

People didn't invent this "fantasy"you speak of. You're being unfair to put it on the community when Mythic heads clearly were the ones who laid the bread crumb trail. They wanted Blizzard's customers. Trying to take customers from Blizzard is trying to kill, or at least cripple Wow. They weren't trying to grab subs from LOTRO, EVE, GWs, or any of those games. I don't think Mark Jacobs ever used those other games names in ONE sentence ever. If you could find something, it probably wasn't in relation to trying to 'compete'. He wasn't even trying to get DAoC people, which would have been the most logical group to get.. his own.

He's always had Wow in his sights and someone would have to be blind not to see that, or remiss to say he didn't without first checking around. This is not as much of a fantasy as you are painting.

Oh... and for gear grinds, just a few words on that:

Bloodlord armor sets, Annihilator armor sets, Sentinel armor sets, Conqueror armor sets, Dark Promise armor sets, (*deep breath*)Invader armor sets, Warlord armor sets. Sovereign armor sets. Nope, 4 hour a night gear grinds don't exist in Warhammer. Good luck with all that. (and I mean that literally since over half of it isn't guaranteed drops)

+20x PvE dungeons runs in a PvP game to finish one set, anyone? Anyone?

All the 'whining' you hear is from the ex-DAOC community who know better, not the Wow people.

How many people here realize that at Real Ranks

65-> you get +25 AP

75-> you get another +25AP

80-> you get +20% damage

Do you really think WoW's PvP is worse just because of gear?  An RR80 will utterly destroy you and the grind is far worse (and yes its a PvE grind, the first rr80 did so my uncontested BFO caps and have more monster kills than plyarer kills).

WAR PvP has the same munchkin bullshit of WoW.  It just not quite so prevalent yet.  Its arguably worse.

That's in addition to the gear?

Who cares if WAR pvp is "better" than WoW pvp when WAR pvp is crap compared to DAoC pvp.

anyone who thinks war's pvp is superior to wow's pvp is on drugs. really strong drugs.

Originally posted by Pheace

That's in addition to the gear?

Yes they are passive abilities gained at those RRs.  That slothoth guy even screen shooted the RR80 +20% damage one.

Conveniently forgotten when people compare gear apparently...  Naturally you always need to compare WoW Gear to Gear + RR in WAR :/

Originally posted by dirtyklingon

anyone who thinks war's pvp is superior to wow's pvp is on drugs. really strong drugs.

The first condition for PvP is c o n t r o l of the avatar.

Meaning fluid and responsive.

Or else you are fighting the clunky mechanics instead of the other player (s).

So the best PvP is the game which has the best and most control of its character.

And Blizzard made that game. That's the biggest mistake Mythic made: control of the avatar in a PvP game is the most important thing. All the rest doesn't matter, because PvP players seek total control.

If you don't agree on that, than you're not a competitive PvP player, but more into RvR and "general" strategy. But only a very very small minority is interested in those "long" goals of general challenge.

wow pvp suck beause:

- its hardly rewarding in any way compared to AC, ultima, daoc
- not enough fights other than small BGs which is just a little "football" game between horde and alliance and has NO impact on the global server war... which is non excistent
because so many carebears just want there next set of epic bragging rights
- the combat it self is great, but still, the impact on the world is non excisting.
- no one fear dieing, and no one cares about killing. (rewards/penalties)

wow is just a huge eq-farming fest, a game with a story that promise pvp and wars but ...bleh!