Originally posted by Recant

Originally posted by Mwaji

Originally posted by googajoob7

arena ratings mean totally nothing of course all classes are represented . theres lots of factors involved in arena play combinations of classes the gear involved etc . it does nt mean that blizzard have the classes have the right balance . please stop using cry as well ... i think given your main language is nt english it might be excused . the right word is complain :) . going back to the main topic the other reason that the game will not hit 12 million this year is the global downturn it will hit every aspect of lives worldwide including gaming . face it wows had its peak whats left now is a game thats 4 years old and players that are slowly getting more and more bored of more of the same old thing . its still a decent game but it wont maintain this level of popularity for ever and when people have less money in thier pockets their wont be as many playing . and suddenly the gold farmers will be hit by the recession so a lot of them will disapear . this lead to even less subs . by the end of this year i would think wow will see a loss of around 20 - 40 percent of its current subscriber base . depending on how bad things get .

First point is just wrong if there were equal representation of classes in Arena then Arena would have equal class representation. Sounds like a silly point doesn't it? That's because making an argument against the huge and Obvious imbalance the game currently has is about as believable as the ( the sky is falling).

Of course I'm not referring to pve since anyone can EZ mode through that now, and if anything pve raids in WOTLK need to be harder for everyone. The combination of bad pvp balance and EZmode pve content makes the game a 1 deminsional HUB for fast raid grinding, thats why the game is boring now, half the game got obliterated with WOTLK the only parts that were liked by more hardcore players are gone or broken.

I do belive thought the gold farmer recession will be hit first hitting WOWs 7 million chinese gold farmer base, thats where it starts.

 

 

Load of rubbish.   There's not a shred of truth to anything you have said, and your 7 million gold farmers remark proves that you're just a troll.

 

It's very true and easily proved.    http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/team/

Just read the Data, if you can't accept it, not my problem but the shameless wow promotion here goes against any reason or logic. I hear the same people say the same self delusional lies soo much on these topics some on has to call you out on it. 

I also understand that some players might still think pve is hard, I have NO idea how but the game can be more challenging for some players I guess.

Originally posted by Mwaji

Originally posted by Recant

Originally posted by Mwaji

Originally posted by googajoob7

arena ratings mean totally nothing of course all classes are represented . theres lots of factors involved in arena play combinations of classes the gear involved etc . it does nt mean that blizzard have the classes have the right balance . please stop using cry as well ... i think given your main language is nt english it might be excused . the right word is complain :) . going back to the main topic the other reason that the game will not hit 12 million this year is the global downturn it will hit every aspect of lives worldwide including gaming . face it wows had its peak whats left now is a game thats 4 years old and players that are slowly getting more and more bored of more of the same old thing . its still a decent game but it wont maintain this level of popularity for ever and when people have less money in thier pockets their wont be as many playing . and suddenly the gold farmers will be hit by the recession so a lot of them will disapear . this lead to even less subs . by the end of this year i would think wow will see a loss of around 20 - 40 percent of its current subscriber base . depending on how bad things get .

First point is just wrong if there were equal representation of classes in Arena then Arena would have equal class representation. Sounds like a silly point doesn't it? That's because making an argument against the huge and Obvious imbalance the game currently has is about as believable as the ( the sky is falling).

Of course I'm not referring to pve since anyone can EZ mode through that now, and if anything pve raids in WOTLK need to be harder for everyone. The combination of bad pvp balance and EZmode pve content makes the game a 1 deminsional HUB for fast raid grinding, thats why the game is boring now, half the game got obliterated with WOTLK the only parts that were liked by more hardcore players are gone or broken.

I do belive thought the gold farmer recession will be hit first hitting WOWs 7 million chinese gold farmer base, thats where it starts.

 

 

Load of rubbish.   There's not a shred of truth to anything you have said, and your 7 million gold farmers remark proves that you're just a troll.

 

 

It's very true and easily proved.    http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/team/

Just read the Data, if you can't accept it, not my problem but the shameless wow promotion here goes against any reason or logic. I hear the same people say the same self delusional lies soo much on these topics some on has to call you out on it. 

I also understand that some players might still think pve is hard, I have NO idea how but the game can be more challenging for some players I guess.

Think that yes the game to easy now but wow is for casual gamer. I did look for those arena ranks and  did see many death knight and paladins up and down for the list. But wow is still fun game for very quick raid and gearing up now. But no so much fun for my battlegrounding smasing no more. I have not had so much fun with so much of the Death Gripping all over the place over and over death grip smash smash.

Originally posted by bodypass

 

I couldn't disagree more.

I know some very very good PvP players in RL. They swear with the PvP mechanics of Wow.

Why? it is the ONLY fantasy MMORPG where you actually DO control your characters fully. The competition never overcame the clunky unresponsive controls already first generations of MMORPH had.

Wow is also the ONLY MMORPG with a rated PvP ranking based on a competitive ladder system.

Arena gives the data to constantly fine tune further the classes. All other games lack these tools.

How in god's name can you fine tune interaction in PVP if you don't have the combat data results given by millions of Arena plays.

So both in control - depth of classes - data analysis and of course very different BG's settings, makes Wow a heaven for the real PvP competition player.

And that's what video games are ALL about. Individual control - to the fullest - of your character.

That about sums it up why a lot of people play PvP in Wow.

... and you don't loose hours for raiding either. Have 30 minutes ... Hop in, do a BG or world PvP when it's up and have fun...

Fun.

Well when your wrong your wrong eh?

Servers are out of control and crashing repeatedly, Arena is broken and disabled the hero class starting at level 55 as the most vastly overpowered class the game ( or any game) has ever seen, raid content that can be cleared by trained monkeys and raid gear thats better for pvp than the actual pvp gear.

WoW now lets talk about Wintergrasp the attempt to grasp and claw at some of  WARs player base doesn't seem to be working out so well now does it?  All this war bashing and wows own clone of WAR pvp is a broken disaster. RIGHT.

Where are all the WAR haters now talking about how broken WAR is?  Is this the So Called Spit and Polish shine I've been hearing about from WOWs extensive PTR testing? Kalgan just admitted on the forums that pvp is broken, his solution so far is the hidden rating system, which for the most part is just going to make Paladin DK teams with Skewed Arena ratings fight each other instead of everyone else until they figure out how to fix their broken system.

Anyway there is your fine tuning from PTR testing Bodypass, have fun with that.

Originally posted by Mwaji

Originally posted by bodypass

 

I couldn't disagree more.

I know some very very good PvP players in RL. They swear with the PvP mechanics of Wow.

Why? it is the ONLY fantasy MMORPG where you actually DO control your characters fully. The competition never overcame the clunky unresponsive controls already first generations of MMORPH had.

Wow is also the ONLY MMORPG with a rated PvP ranking based on a competitive ladder system.

Arena gives the data to constantly fine tune further the classes. All other games lack these tools.

How in god's name can you fine tune interaction in PVP if you don't have the combat data results given by millions of Arena plays.

So both in control - depth of classes - data analysis and of course very different BG's settings, makes Wow a heaven for the real PvP competition player.

And that's what video games are ALL about. Individual control - to the fullest - of your character.

That about sums it up why a lot of people play PvP in Wow.

... and you don't loose hours for raiding either. Have 30 minutes ... Hop in, do a BG or world PvP when it's up and have fun...

Fun.

Well when your wrong your wrong eh?

Servers are out of control and crashing repeatedly, Arena is broken and disabled the hero class starting at level 55 as the most vastly overpowered class the game ( or any game) has ever seen, raid content that can be cleared by trained monkeys and raid gear thats better for pvp than the actual pvp gear.

WoW now lets talk about Wintergrasp the attempt to grasp and claw at some of  WARs player base doesn't seem to be working out so well now does it?  All this war bashing and wows own clone of WAR pvp is a broken disaster. RIGHT.

Where are all the WAR haters now talking about how broken WAR is?  Is this the So Called Spit and Polish shine I've been hearing about from WOWs extensive PTR testing? Kalgan just admitted on the forums that pvp is broken, his solution so far is the hidden rating system, which for the most part is just going to make Paladin DK teams with Skewed Arena ratings fight each other instead of everyone else until they figure out how to fix their broken system.

Anyway there is your fine tuning from PTR testing Bodypass, have fun with that.

 

i like both warhammer and warcraft . they both have a lot to offer , but at the moment i would definatly say warcrafts pvp is broken . not beyond repair but it neeeds a lot of attention . i m playing warhammer at the moment . i m hoping blizzard will sort out a lot of the problems in a future patch . wintersgrasp is a total disaster the lag you get makes it virtually unplayable . i recently took part in a keep raid which i would estimate at least 80 -100 players took part in and it was a pleasute to play with virtually no lag at all . untill they fix the pvp content of the game i wont return to it . as a pvp orientated player i would say warcraft is in its worst period ever . paradoxically its pve side is in its best state ever .

as for 7 million gold farmers i think thats a little to high an estimation . i would nt like to hazzard a guess as to how many there are .i would think wow will drop to around 6-7 milliom subs in the coming year and decilne further in 2010 . lets face it if sony and mircoft are being hit by recession blizzard is bound to be too . by the time we come out the end of it in a few years time warcraft will be a very old game and wont be able to attract the same player numbers .

face it this is wows peak . its decline will be slow and i m sure it ll be here for its tenth birthday and prpberly will sitll have a healthy 2-3 million players even then .

i m amazed anyone would predict rapid growth in anything the way the world is at the moment . but mind you the same person says wows classes are balanced when its widly acknowlaged that they are not . think that says a lot about the op .

i would nt be suprised if wow will lose between 2-4 million players this year through a  mixture of players getting bored and ecconomic factors .  it does nt take nostradamos to see the way things are headed just a little interest in the news and a little common sence . i doubt you have either .

a slow decline with there sitll being 2-3 million players on its tenth birthday . i dont think theres any contradiction in such a statement . if i d said a slow decline with 13 million players on its tenth birthday . that is what you would call a conradiction . lol 

fool

Originally posted by googajoob7

i would nt be suprised if wow will lose between 2-4 million players this year through a  mixture of players getting bored and ecconomic factors .  it does nt take nostradamos to see the way things are headed just a little interest in the news and a little common sence . i doubt you have either .

 

Actually, I doubt that. I think WOW will gain players and agree that 12 million will be easily attained. First and foremost, there is no major competition this year (that's assuming that Darkfall will launch how many expect it too, Aion will be good for a while but yet another MMO with little staying power, and Star Wars TOR comes next year). WOW weathered the storm of and prospered during the launch of AOC and WAR, two of the most anticipated MMO's in recent years. I doubt this year will be any different.

And as to econmoic issues, WOW will do fine too. The reason is two-fold. First it is a proven game and suffers from your rare technical or design issue. There is little risk in subscribing to it. Second, MMO's are cheap, cheap, cheap. ALl you need to play is an Internet connection and the sub fee. Internet is a necessity in today's world so that leaves $15 a month. I spend more right now on lunch in one day. Think of it this way: My wife and I go to a movie. We get 2 hours of semi-entertainment. Tickets are $10 each. That's $20 for two hours. Now let's say that she and I both average 2 hours a day in WOW. So 4 hours a day for us both, at 7 days a week. That is 28 hours a week, (let's round to 30 for easy math), 120 hours a month. If my math does not fail me, thats ~0.125 cents an hour. That is very cheap for entertainment.

So i expect a lot of people to realize that WOW is cheap, its a proven game and they do have fun with it and rather play it than run the risk of a new game (which to startup is a minimum of $50). WOW is doing fine and will continue to do fine for a long time to come.

Originally posted by googajoob7

i would nt be suprised if wow will lose between 2-4 million players this year through a  mixture of players getting bored and ecconomic factors .  it does nt take nostradamos to see the way things are headed just a little interest in the news and a little common sence . i doubt you have either .

 

  I suspect teh economy is a "non-factor" mostly.  Those that couldn't afford the 15$ would have already been long gone...this financial crisis didn't just appear overnight, after all.  Its been steady on for the last few years.  If anything, the economy will KEEP players in WoW...because no one can afford to upgrade their rig or buy a new one in order to play these new games that keep coming out with massive requirements.

  You can play WoW on a PC built from 100$......thats staying power in a trash economy if you ask me.

  As for player getting bored....they already HAVE.  They also came back.  The fact remains that the only major things a person can get bored with IN WoW is essentially in every MMO ever made as well.  They leave, try a new game...and then realize its always more of the same.  They go back to WoW because its bigger, has more people, and your accomplishments mean more in such an environment.

  People have been trying to fortell WoW's loss for years now.  Its not going to happen.  At this point, to topple their numbers you are literally going to have to out-do that game in every way.  We're talking a major investment here....easily double what the standard is now.

http://www.xfire.com/games/wow/World_of_Warcraft/

More XFire players than ever now in these last 2 months.

Blizzard is showing the others its heels ... again.

A good indication is that the ratio on Xfire between Wow and War is now MORE than 27 to 1. That used to be 6 to 1 in Sep 2008.

So the gap is even more widening with a frightening speed as no new games with significant hype will be launched in the next 8 months.

Just wait till the new patch MAr/April comes out that will make it to epic PvP gear and the new "hard mode" raids.

 I told you the doom sayers were wrong.

Originally posted by bodypass

http://www.xfire.com/games/wow/World_of_Warcraft/

More XFire players than ever now in these last 2 months.

Blizzard is showing the others its heels ... again.

A good indication is that the ratio on Xfire between Wow and War is now MORE than 27 to 1. That used to be 6 to 1 in Sep 2008.

So the gap is even more widening with a frightening speed as no new games with significant hype will be launched in the next 8 months.

Just wait till the new patch MAr/April comes out that will make it to epic PvP gear and the new "hard mode" raids.

 I told you the doom sayers were wrong.

 

Let me get this straight in your other post in another topic you say  how useless Xfire is and now are useing it to determine your facts, right.

As for the doom sayers you said the same thing about THIS patch and it was a total disaster, half the game is bugged and broken now, pvp is more broken than ever and Wintergrasp, well Wintergrasp was a  disaster this patch wasn't it. And now your back to singing how the next patch will destroy all other games, since your last attempt at predicting this was an Epic faliure I'm curious to see what happens next time.

As for hard mode Raids, LOL  there would have to be a Suicide level to get those kiddy mode Raids you have now to be even remotely challenging.

Originally posted by templarga

Originally posted by googajoob7

i would nt be suprised if wow will lose between 2-4 million players this year through a  mixture of players getting bored and ecconomic factors .  it does nt take nostradamos to see the way things are headed just a little interest in the news and a little common sence . i doubt you have either .

 

Actually, I doubt that. I think WOW will gain players and agree that 12 million will be easily attained. First and foremost, there is no major competition this year (that's assuming that Darkfall will launch how many expect it too, Aion will be good for a while but yet another MMO with little staying power, and Star Wars TOR comes next year). WOW weathered the storm of and prospered during the launch of AOC and WAR, two of the most anticipated MMO's in recent years. I doubt this year will be any different.

And as to econmoic issues, WOW will do fine too. The reason is two-fold. First it is a proven game and suffers from your rare technical or design issue. There is little risk in subscribing to it. Second, MMO's are cheap, cheap, cheap. ALl you need to play is an Internet connection and the sub fee. Internet is a necessity in today's world so that leaves $15 a month. I spend more right now on lunch in one day. Think of it this way: My wife and I go to a movie. We get 2 hours of semi-entertainment. Tickets are $10 each. That's $20 for two hours. Now let's say that she and I both average 2 hours a day in WOW. So 4 hours a day for us both, at 7 days a week. That is 28 hours a week, (let's round to 30 for easy math), 120 hours a month. If my math does not fail me, thats ~0.125 cents an hour. That is very cheap for entertainment.

So i expect a lot of people to realize that WOW is cheap, its a proven game and they do have fun with it and rather play it than run the risk of a new game (which to startup is a minimum of $50). WOW is doing fine and will continue to do fine for a long time to come.

I couldn't agree more with this. As Templarga said , MMOs are cheap. The economic issues will most likely help the MMO market to grow in a same way as the 1st economic crisis in the 30s helped the movie market back then. People need entertainment even during crisis and will usually turn to the cheapest form on it, which MMOs can offer. For couple of Dollars / Euros you can get something to entertain yourself for whole month.

haven't read this thread apart from first 2 pages.

What I do know is that my server (original EU server) has queues once again for the last 2 weeks.  After LK released we had queues of 1500 (1.5 hours to get in) and then we had a free server transfer for those that wanted out, so things improved, but once again 1 month later I'm afraid we'll need new server transfers as queues are creeping up once again.

So guess in EU the game is still growing.

2,5 million more gamecards and 2,5 million more frozen accounts and yes it will be 12 million "active" players in WoW..............................................................

Originally posted by bodypass

http://www.xfire.com/games/wow/World_of_Warcraft/

More XFire players than ever now in these last 2 months.

Blizzard is showing the others its heels ... again.

A good indication is that the ratio on Xfire between Wow and War is now MORE than 27 to 1. That used to be 6 to 1 in Sep 2008.

So the gap is even more widening with a frightening speed as no new games with significant hype will be launched in the next 8 months.

Just wait till the new patch MAr/April comes out that will make it to epic PvP gear and the new "hard mode" raids.

 I told you the doom sayers were wrong.

 

UPDATE:
 

Today's ratio on Xfire players between Wow and War is now 29.7 to 1. Incredible that a mere 4 months ago the ratio was 6 to 1.

http://www.xfire.com/games/wow/World_of_Warcraft/

Meaning the gap is still more widening each week.

Doom sayers are constantly beaten here on our Wow forums.

12.000.000 here we come...

Originally posted by bodypass

Originally posted by bodypass

http://www.xfire.com/games/wow/World_of_Warcraft/

More XFire players than ever now in these last 2 months.

Blizzard is showing the others its heels ... again.

A good indication is that the ratio on Xfire between Wow and War is now MORE than 27 to 1. That used to be 6 to 1 in Sep 2008.

So the gap is even more widening with a frightening speed as no new games with significant hype will be launched in the next 8 months.

Just wait till the new patch MAr/April comes out that will make it to epic PvP gear and the new "hard mode" raids.

 I told you the doom sayers were wrong.

 

UPDATE:
 

Today's ratio on Xfire players between Wow and War is now 29.7 to 1. Incredible that a mere 4 months ago the ratio was 6 to 1.

http://www.xfire.com/games/wow/World_of_Warcraft/

Meaning the gap is still more widening each week.

Doom sayers are constantly beaten here on our Wow forums.

12.000.000 here we come...

It amazes me how little people use their brains to determine the status of a game. They rely on crappy xfire like it is some kind of magic conch..Only a small percentage of people use xfire. So to try to give stats from 1 source is pointless..Try again with something more accurate, because if you visit other mmo sites and read the posts on WOW you will get a contradiction to what  xfire is saying...

XFire work has a statistic. You think those television reporters talk to everyone on America to tell whos ahead on the polls? They call like 10.000 ppl and do a statistic, thats what xfire does and its relatively accurate as a matter of fact.

Originally posted by tryklon

XFire work has a statistic. You think those television reporters talk to everyone on America to tell whos ahead on the polls? They call like 10.000 ppl and do a statistic, thats what xfire does and its relatively accurate as a matter of fact.

Actually they use a sample of ... 1000 people to predict the next elections of a complete US State (exit polls - people who just voted and left the voting buro) within a 2% correct bracket.

The only difference is that XFire has always 150.000 users on line ... and the target audiance doens't have to be put into a stratification, because the public is defined as having a PC and an interest in gaming with an internet connection.

The only distortion of Xfire numbers could be temporarely when a game would be promoted through a special action - like winning a free sub - and installing Xfire.

But even then these effects fade out very fast and this wasn't the case of the two samples used above.

------

I smile at the poster above you who said: "just look at the forums ...". On this very mmorpg.com website 600(!) voters voted LotrO as best MMOrpg.

A few hundred anonymous voters on a world wide website. It should put this website and its "200" logged in people at least in a rather modest position comparing to a tool that constantly measures 150 to 200 K PC players.

These people posting here really think they have an impact on the industry. Poor guys....

Originally posted by bodypass

Originally posted by tryklon

XFire work has a statistic. You think those television reporters talk to everyone on America to tell whos ahead on the polls? They call like 10.000 ppl and do a statistic, thats what xfire does and its relatively accurate as a matter of fact.

 

Actually they use a sample of ... 1000 people to predict the next elections of a complete US State (exit polls - people who just voted and left the voting buro) within a 2% correct bracket.

The only difference is that XFire has always 150.000 users on line ... and the target audiance doens't have to be put into a stratification, because the public is defined as having a PC and an interest in gaming with an internet connection.

The only distortion of Xfire numbers could be temporarely when a game would be promoted through a special action - like winning a free sub - and installing Xfire.

But even then these effects fade out very fast and this wasn't the case of the two samples used above.

------

I smile at the poster above you who said: "just look at the forums ...". On this very mmorpg.com website 600(!) voters voted LotrO as best MMOrpg.

A few hundred anonymous voters on a world wide website. It should put this website and its "200" logged in people at least in a rather modest position comparing to a tool that constantly measures 150 to 200 K PC players.

These people posting here really think they have an impact on the industry. Poor guys....

 

1.  2 Days ago Xfire had one of the steepest dropoffs in months, now your bragging because it went up today?

2. You have NO IDEA about Xfire reliability and distortions or what they could be, you have no clue what your talking about, either that or just making crap up as you go along.

3. And when LOTR won all you fanbois came out and said it was a Farce because mmorpg are all wow haters, which one is it?

4. You don't have an impact on the industry either blowhard.

5. Did you really have to Necro this post? was the Fanboi pull just too great?

6. Oh btw the recent patch was total crap,  everything is now broken, after all that bragging you did about it, theres always next patch I guess.

Originally posted by Mwaji 

6. Oh btw the recent patch was total crap,  everything is now broken, after all that bragging you did about it, theres always next patch I guess.

Your posts are always filled with hyperbole like this, which is why it is difficult to take you seriously. 

Originally posted by Mwaji

Originally posted by bodypass

Originally posted by tryklon

XFire work has a statistic. You think those television reporters talk to everyone on America to tell whos ahead on the polls? They call like 10.000 ppl and do a statistic, thats what xfire does and its relatively accurate as a matter of fact.

 

Actually they use a sample of ... 1000 people to predict the next elections of a complete US State (exit polls - people who just voted and left the voting buro) within a 2% correct bracket.

The only difference is that XFire has always 150.000 users on line ... and the target audiance doens't have to be put into a stratification, because the public is defined as having a PC and an interest in gaming with an internet connection.

The only distortion of Xfire numbers could be temporarely when a game would be promoted through a special action - like winning a free sub - and installing Xfire.

But even then these effects fade out very fast and this wasn't the case of the two samples used above.

------

I smile at the poster above you who said: "just look at the forums ...". On this very mmorpg.com website 600(!) voters voted LotrO as best MMOrpg.

A few hundred anonymous voters on a world wide website. It should put this website and its "200" logged in people at least in a rather modest position comparing to a tool that constantly measures 150 to 200 K PC players.

These people posting here really think they have an impact on the industry. Poor guys....

 

1.  2 Days ago Xfire had one of the steepest dropoffs in months, now your bragging because it went up today?

2. You have NO IDEA about Xfire reliability and distortions or what they could be, you have no clue what your talking about, either that or just making crap up as you go along.

3. And when LOTR won all you fanbois came out and said it was a Farce because mmorpg are all wow haters, which one is it?

4. You don't have an impact on the industry either blowhard.

5. Did you really have to Necro this post? was the Fanboi pull just too great?

6. Oh btw the recent patch was total crap,  everything is now broken, after all that bragging you did about it, theres always next patch I guess.

As to #1 - Two days ago was patch day and the servers were down for an extended time. try again.

As to 6, even Blizzard admits the patch was broken and wasn't ready - they even apologized for it. So far most of the issues are fixed, some aren't but in the end....its just like every other game out there!