Originally posted by Gnomad 

Please provide citations for your ignorant last sentence and while you are at it provide a citation where anyone has been successfully sued over an NDA breech including the restitution they were required to pay to the plaintiff.

Good luck, I have been asking for this for over a decade.

If there was ever an example of how to NOT write a contract this is it. Yes I only have a minor in corporate law and am not a practicing lawyer like all you fawnbois are but I would bet I am correct.

I routinely have dealt with contracts that pay out more in one month then Blizzard spent making WoW and they sure aren't worded like this PoS.

Here's one that was in the news not long ago, damages were £270,000:

itn.co.uk/news/97407bdcf9774c75c80fb12ba37ed75a.html

Originally posted by Kurt00

Originally posted by nileq

Originally posted by Kurt00

Originally posted by nileq

It's harch I grant you that but it's not a joke if they drag you to to court.

 

They wouldn't be able to drag me to court because I simply wouldn't show up. They would be sitting there like morons themselves.

 

 

Again, your participation in the proceedings is not required in most civilised countries..

So unless you are from a banana-republic it don't matter. And will only look bad for your case.

 

Who cares?

They can fine me. I won't pay. They would never get their money.

Don't you get it?? It's a joke unless you're able to go to prison.

 

Actually, if you live in the U.S., you can go to jail for not paying fines, your wages will be garnished, your credit (which effects you with buying anything over 2 grand practically) will be put on freeze and the federal law will be up your ass like a monkey.
 

Originally posted by Blodpls

Originally posted by Gnomad 

Please provide citations for your ignorant last sentence and while you are at it provide a citation where anyone has been successfully sued over an NDA breech including the restitution they were required to pay to the plaintiff.

Good luck, I have been asking for this for over a decade.

If there was ever an example of how to NOT write a contract this is it. Yes I only have a minor in corporate law and am not a practicing lawyer like all you fawnbois are but I would bet I am correct.

I routinely have dealt with contracts that pay out more in one month then Blizzard spent making WoW and they sure aren't worded like this PoS.

Here's one that was in the news not long ago, damages were £270,000:

 

itn.co.uk/news/97407bdcf9774c75c80fb12ba37ed75a.html

 

 

I guess Pre-nuptuals are similar to NDAs... but still that's a poor example as JLO is a high profile public figure... and Aventurine and very "tiny" company w/ little if at all no influence on an internaltional level.
 

Originally posted by hidden1 

I guess Pre-nuptuals are similar to NDAs... but still that's a poor example as JLO is a high profile public figure... and Aventurine and very "tiny" company w/ little if at all no influence on an internaltional level.
 

As far as I am aware the same law applies to everyone or at least it does where I live. He signed confidentiallity agreement and was then sued as a result of breaking it.  You couldn't get a clearer example than that.

Originally posted by Agricola1

 

The point he's making is, if all they have is a signature on a piece of paper and no other form of ID or an address they don't actually know who they're supposed to be taking to court. How do they serve papers to this person? How do they identify him/her?

I give a false signature and no other ID where will the police go to pick me up? For a small civil case the police aren't going to pick me up and drag me to court in the EU or anywhere else on the planet. I don't turn up the judge will go in the favour of the prosecutor, but since they don't know who the hell I am it doen't really matter.

How will they get compensation when all they have is an email address and a signature that reads "Ivor Biggun"?

 But they would know your address. You sign the document and I would assume you would want them to send you your beta key to your address, correct?  So that you could activate the game to have some part of the NDA to break. Give em a false address, no beta key, no NDA breakage.

 I think you are assuming that they would email you the beta key, but this 'mail-in NDA' makes me think differently.

Originally posted by coliah

Originally posted by Kurt00

Originally posted by nileq

Originally posted by Kurt00

Originally posted by nileq

It's harch I grant you that but it's not a joke if they drag you to to court.

 

They wouldn't be able to drag me to court because I simply wouldn't show up. They would be sitting there like morons themselves.

 

 

Again, your participation in the proceedings is not required in most civilised countries..

So unless you are from a banana-republic it don't matter. And will only look bad for your case.

 

Who cares?

They can fine me. I won't pay. They would never get their money.

Don't you get it?? It's a joke unless you're able to go to prison.

 

Actually, if you live in the U.S., you can go to jail for not paying fines, your wages will be garnished, your credit (which effects you with buying anything over 2 grand practically) will be put on freeze and the federal law will be up your ass like a monkey.
 

Or to add to that. I had a friend who had about 500$ worth of parking tickets. I asked him how he racked up so many fines. He said, "simple. i don't show up in court and I don't pay them". They began compounding interest on the fines. Eventually he owed them 3000 grand. That was enough for the city to come put a boot on his tire. He rode his bike for 3 months, fines went up to 6000 dollars (compound interest)then came home one day and his car was gone. With 6000 dollars, the city easily could contract a repo man, retrieve the original fine plus some either thru auctioning his car or forcing him to pay. He finally had to pay the fines plus an impound fee to get his car out. His car was a piece of shit. He bought it for 3 grand, 2 years later he bought the same car again for 6000 dollars.

My persoal story is that of someone who shared my exact name who lived in my home state but in a different city. This person with my name owed 24 grand in back property taxes. The law firm contracted to track down this guy, found me. I ignored the mail I got for a year - then I started getting the legal paperwork, telephone calls at home and at work, and eventually a summons. It took another year to clear everything up. Trust me. If someone thinks you own them money, they will find you. They will make your life miserable. My problem wasn't even the feds - it was some law office contracted by the feds to shake down tax evaders. The only way that law firm made money was to get you to pay up. They aren't in the business of saying 'oh well he didn't show in court- guess we lost that one'.

Not going to court isn't some magic get out of trouble trick anyone can use to escape punishment. Just try it. Break a law or a contract, get a summons to court and don't show, watch how fun your life gets. 

Originally posted by Blodpls

Originally posted by hidden1 

I guess Pre-nuptuals are similar to NDAs... but still that's a poor example as JLO is a high profile public figure... and Aventurine and very "tiny" company w/ little if at all no influence on an internaltional level.
 

 

As far as I am aware the same law applies to everyone or at least it does where I live. He signed confidentiallity agreement and was then sued as a result of breaking it.  You couldn't get a clearer example than that.

You are technically correct, but I think the point the others are trying to make is that for Aventurine to spend money and time to persue a suit may be impractical and unrealistic (especially just prior to launch, as they have marketting prioritys to consider, and especially now they must be looking for the "right" publisher... it's a matter or priority.
 

Wether the "laws applies to everyone" as you put it, that is true on the ideological level, but on a realistic level it's the guy w/ the most money that gets away w/ murder (case in point OJ Simpson).  With that said, let me deliberate onto a yet not too often touched upon factor that may deter a gaming company like Aventurine (or even a big company like EA or SCEA) from suing some poor retarded beta testing avarage schmo... bascially it would be Negative press.  Imagine what type of effect that could have on a subscriber base for a game that sued some poor "nobody" who blabbed out some game secrets... I for would see it as a Big bully beating up on some small fry scenario.  And it would put me off from playing that game.  Not sure if anyone else would but that would just look pretty bad if they were to sue some nobody for NDA breach.  Something like that might cost them potential subscribers.  Usually any publicity in good publicity, even the negative one... but I think in the cases of NDA breaches and companies, it would be the exception to the rule.

Hypothetically if I had a dev studio making a game and found out a certain beta tester breached my NDA I would simply boot him from test, ban hi IP, and take no further legal action... I wouldn't want my company to seem like a bully in the eyes of my perspective, future subscribers (could be bad mojo imho).

Originally posted by hidden1 

You are technically correct, but I think the point the others are trying to make is that for Aventurine to spend money and time to persue a suit may be impractical and unrealistic (especially just prior to launch, as they have marketting prioritys to consider, and especially now they must be looking for the "right" publisher... it's a matter or priority.
 

Wether the "laws applies to everyone" as you put it, that is true on the ideological level, but on a realistic level it's the guy w/ the most money that gets away w/ murder (case in point OJ Simpson).  With that said, let me deliberate onto a yet not too often touched upon factor that may deter a gaming company like Aventurine (or even a big company like EA or SCEA) from suing some poor retarded beta testing avarage schmo... bascially it would be Negative press.  Imagine what type of effect that could have on a subscriber base for a game that sued some poor "nobody" who blabbed out some game secrets... I for would see it as a Big bully beating up on some small fry scenario.  And it would put me off from playing that game.  Not sure if anyone else would but that would just look pretty bad if they were to sue some nobody for NDA breach.  Something like that might cost them potential subscribers.  Usually any publicity in good publicity, even the negative one... but I think in the cases of NDA breaches and companies, it would be the exception to the rule.

Hypothetically if I had a dev studio making a game and found out a certain beta tester breached my NDA I would simply boot him from test, ban hi IP, and take no further legal action... I wouldn't want my company to seem like a bully in the eyes of my perspective, future subscribers (could be bad mojo imho).

Yes I agree that they wouldn't bother as it's too much effort for what they would gain, but the guys I was orginally discussing this with seem to think it's impossible to get into trouble over it which it isn't.  Their solution is to put their hands over their ears and sing "la la lalala la la" whilst hoping for the best.

I hope they aren't planning on going into law.

Wow... 187 posts about something completely fabricated. I love the Darkfall forums.

You can argue legalities all you want but the fact remains that unless there's some proof that someone who does not work for the company was actually fined because of a video game NDA breach... it NEVER HAPPENED.

Originally posted by downtoearth

Originally posted by rav3n2

Who cares about the NDA and the beta leaks, I want some information lets say like, what are the system specs, from aventurine not some half assed leak? But i guess they wont tell you because they "want the player to find out for themselves" LOL what a joke. 

 

no you will know them before release

orly?

4) Aventurine implies in the NDA that they do not have to prove and damages in a court, that the court must recognize any breach as irreprable damage with no adaquate monetary value

Verdict for the plaintiff!  ...and since you so adequately agree that there is no adequate monetary value, you are awarded $0.00.

But it would be funny to have them prove to the judge that the game 'works' and is 'ready' as Tasoshole states.

This has been one of the best blind fanboyism threads I think I've ever read.

I say we put this uber-NDA to test. I will be the lab rat. If someone can get me into Beta I will risk my future by breaking the NDA. I will break it so hard Tasos will feel it in soul.

Ok but seriously I work for TruGreen, the largest lawn care company in world. I signed a Non-compete contract when I started working for the company. I type this because everyone has to sign it. You know what people have left the company and started up their own lawncare companies. A clear violation. Now if the largest lawncare company with teams of corprate lawyers and a bankroll that Tasos only dreams about doesn't prosocute. Then I would doubt that Tasos would have his lawyers waste his money.

I think the guy they say they are going after is a myth.

Originally posted by almerel

This has been one of the best blind fanboyism threads I think I've ever read.

I say we put this uber-NDA to test. I will be the lab rat. If someone can get me into Beta I will risk my future by breaking the NDA. I will break it so hard Tasos will feel it in soul.

Ok but seriously I work for TruGreen, the largest lawn care company in world. I signed a Non-compete contract when I started working for the company. I type this because everyone has to sign it. You know what people have left the company and started up their own lawncare companies. A clear violation. Now if the largest lawncare company with teams of corprate lawyers and a bankroll that Tasos only dreams about doesn't prosocute. Then I would doubt that Tasos would have his lawyers waste his money.

I think the guy they say they are going after is a myth.

myth? hmm interesting theory.. and could be possible, call him "The Unknown Carebear" lol
 

Originally posted by DeadDingo

---

4) Aventurine implies in the NDA that they do not have to prove and damages in a court, that the court must recognize any breach as irreprable damage with no adaquate monetary value

---

 

Verdict for the plaintiff!  ...and since you so adequately agree that there is no adequate monetary value, you are awarded $0.00.

But it would be funny to have them prove to the judge that the game 'works' and is 'ready' as Tasoshole states.

OMG "Tasoshole".... I laughed for 2.7 seconds.
 

---

Originally posted by Aragon100

---

Originally posted by Blodpls

I doubt that, it's probably a standard Greek NDA thats already been successfully tested in Greek court.

---

 
Yup. Its a legal contract you sign so if you break it you just have to face the consequences.
It will not be cheap id tell you.
And the money will be taken out of your account no matter you like it or not.

---

still wrong. They Can't do anything to anyone in NA without going through the government. Plus even if they did, that would not grant them access to bank info, hell even the government (at least where i live) is unable to access bank information unless you give them permission.

ALSO as for the NDA they still couldn't do anything because a breach wouldnt be criminal. Now if I lived in Greece then ya they could sue me as much as they wanted too, but because I am protected under international laws, my country would have to see it as something so bad that they would allow Greece to have jurisdiction over them, which won't happen due to it being only a video game. They would just laugh right in Adventurine's face and tell them to F off basically. So in the end I wouldnt be too worried because their NDA is just a joke and a scare tactic.

Originally posted by Blodpls

Yes I agree that they wouldn't bother as it's too much effort for what they would gain, but the guys I was orginally discussing this with seem to think it's impossible to get into trouble over it which it isn't.  Their solution is to put their hands over their ears and sing "la la lalala la la" whilst hoping for the best.

I hope they aren't planning on going into law.

Talk about revisionist history. Anyone can take a look at the thread history and see you and Aragon were implying breaking the NDA would make the person an EU fugitive. You were also implying that the persons money would be taken to cover damages.

Now suddenly you think Aventurine would not come after the person? You completely lost any credibility with this post... you do realize this right?

You for a third time provided a link with no relevance to the issue at hand. JLO... really you are sinking to a hack sing/actress for supportive evidence? Until you come back with an exctual BETA tester that has been charged or sued you have no basis for your argument.

The simple truth is if the document is legit it would never hold up in court. I will bring this up one last time... Please explain how the NDA is valid when Aventurine requires screen shots for bug reports. Since the document clearly states even making a SS is a violation they have removed its validity.

You refuse to acknowledge this part because you have no excuse for it. Lick your wounds and pick an argument you can win. You have been repeatedly shown to be incorrect in this thread... time to let it go and move on. If the open beta date is true, then this whole discussion is irrelevent.

Originally posted by atziluth

Originally posted by Blodpls

Yes I agree that they wouldn't bother as it's too much effort for what they would gain, but the guys I was orginally discussing this with seem to think it's impossible to get into trouble over it which it isn't.  Their solution is to put their hands over their ears and sing "la la lalala la la" whilst hoping for the best.

I hope they aren't planning on going into law.

 

Talk about revisionist history. Anyone can take a look at the thread history and see you and Aragon were implying breaking the NDA would make the person an EU fugitive. You were also implying that the persons money would be taken to cover damages.

Now suddenly you think Aventurine would not come after the person? You completely lost any credibility with this post... you do realize this right?

You for a third time provided a link with no relevance to the issue at hand. JLO... really you are sinking to a hack sing/actress for supportive evidence? Until you come back with an exctual BETA tester that has been charged or sued you have no basis for your argument.

The simple truth is if the document is legit it would never hold up in court. I will bring this up one last time... Please explain how the NDA is valid when Aventurine requires screen shots for bug reports. Since the document clearly states even making a SS is a violation they have removed its validity.

You refuse to acknowledge this part because you have no excuse for it. Lick your wounds and pick an argument you can win. You have been repeatedly shown to be incorrect in this thread... time to let it go and move on. If the open beta date is true, then this whole discussion is irrelevent.

both of you made me laugh for 1.3 seconds Hah!
 

who cares at this point. let the game release. see how it does, if it tanks, so be it. if it "succeeds" and i use that term loosely,then all the better.

Originally posted by Blodpls

Originally posted by Gnomad 

Please provide citations for your ignorant last sentence and while you are at it provide a citation where anyone has been successfully sued over an NDA breech including the restitution they were required to pay to the plaintiff.

Good luck, I have been asking for this for over a decade.

If there was ever an example of how to NOT write a contract this is it. Yes I only have a minor in corporate law and am not a practicing lawyer like all you fawnbois are but I would bet I am correct.

I routinely have dealt with contracts that pay out more in one month then Blizzard spent making WoW and they sure aren't worded like this PoS.

 

Here's one that was in the news not long ago, damages were £270,000:

 

itn.co.uk/news/97407bdcf9774c75c80fb12ba37ed75a.html

 

 

LOL you haven't a clue about the differences do you?

Gawd the fawnboism on here is hilarious...time to stock up on more popcorn for the 22nd it's gonna be a blast.

Originally posted by Gnomad 

LOL you haven't a clue about the differences do you?

Gawd the fawnboism on here is hilarious...time to stock up on more popcorn for the 22nd it's gonna be a blast.

"Please provide citations for your ignorant last sentence and while you are at it provide a citation where anyone has been successfully sued over an NDA breech including the restitution they were required to pay to the plaintiff."

The above is what you asked for and I have given you an example.

There is no difference, they are both confidentiality agreements. I thought that you had studied law?