Originally posted by Netspook

Originally posted by curiousdaoc

Originally posted by Netspook

That's not "RoM's idea". They stole it from FFXI, an almost 7 years old game!! In FFXI, the second class is called a subjob - you can change main and sub freely, and can use any of the jobs as either. The only restictions are that some jobs (classes) must be unlocked before they are available, and the sub will never be higher than half of the main's lvl. So imo, "Rom's idea", as you call it, is a poor version of an old and excellent feature.

 

That's not accurate at all actually,

Dual/multi classing has been around since the days of pen and paper rpg fame, the dual classing concept was published as early as 1974, in the first edition rulebook of D&D.

FFXI did not come up with this idea by any means, it is not even an idea exclusive to square, nor did they invent the concept. They simply implemented it into an electronic, online form. The system itself has been featured in plenty of previous single player titles, some with online capability and some without, plenty of them prior to the release of FFXI.

People with your viewpoint will always be of the mindset that someone "copied" someone else though, because you cannot fathom the logic that as years pass older concepts evolve with the times and either become mainstream or die, especially if they are successful and efficient in how they fit the task they were designed for.

So imo, "FFXI's idea", as you call it, is a poor version of an already perfected system dating back 35 years.

 

Read what you quote again, and you'll see that you're downright lying. I never said it was FFXI's idea, I said that's where they stole it from. Huge difference, if you "can fathom the logic".

hehe have to pipe in here, but why didnt they then steal this idea form the MUDs that were doing mutli, and even tri classing as early as the mid 90s??....which "stole" the idea from the 8 or 9 P&P games that had the system.

Point is  they didnt "Steal" from anyone, like EVERYthing in EVERY MMORPG out now, its an old idea, concept, mechanic thats been used and reused for decades. Now you can say they copied FF11 idea, but since i haven't played it i can't say since i don't know how they implemented it which may be very dif than FF11s.

Originally posted by Sixpax

Originally posted by Reizla

Originally posted by Untouchable8

its wow for poor people.

 

 

its as good as wow

OMFG... An other one who doesn't know dick about MMORPG's and claims RoM to be WoW...
I bet you say that about every new game that'll be released...

Lets get back to basics & enlighten you on the differences...

RoM is FFA PvP, WoW is RvR
RoM PvP is alignbased - if you PK someone you'll suffer concequences. WoW PvP is gank the other side
RoM offers no gear as reward for PvP, WoW does
RoM knows dualclass system (good option IMO), WoW has only 1 class far your char

I can go on with differences like this for an hour at least... I only agree on the fact that the graphics & interface show familiarities, but then again, WoW wasn't the 1st MMORPG on the market, which will mean that RoM != WoW

 

 

Agreed.  There's plenty of differences:

RoM doesn't have cartoony graphics, WoW does.

RoM doesn't have eye-rolling silliness, WoW does.

RoM has an actual community that's often helpful and friendly, WoW does not.

I could go on with the differences for like two hours.  RoM != WoW

Umm RoM looks like retard made versions of WoW's graphics in case you havent noticed.

In the first 10 minutes I was sick and tired of the so-called "community" because it was somehow worse than WoW's

Thank god RoM isn't equal to WoW because I'd have to kill myself if I knew millions of people played crap like RoM

Yes..you ARE right.  It IS like WoW.  All the way from the bubble chats, cartoony avatars, and juvenile banter in the chat channels.

I recently tried playing it for two days.  I discovered on the second day, in the Item Mall, that you can buy gems and other items to boost your gear using Real Money.    I announced what I had discovered in general chat.  (zone chat)  I was instantly assaulted verbally with such things as," Can't handle it, leave", "I suggest you go try Wow." Good riddance".    

Surprised?  Not really.  I'm beginning to think that the mentalitiy of a 12 year old is the majority of what you meet in an mmo.  I had never talked with most of them who had to spout off their intellect.   Funny, you can ask for help and you might get 2 or 3 people to whisper you, or tell you what you need to do.  You say you're leaving the game due to it being  Pay To Win, and you get a barrage of unkowns letting you know how weak and sad you are for not liking their game.

I saw chat about porn, intercourse, and potty humor in a little under an hour. I hope they develop a way to ingame monitor and hand out nice temp I.P. bans to chat griefers. Stop it before it gets out of hand as it has in WoW.
 

I think Runes of Magic seems very solid for beta stages.  Not very demanding on a system, so many can enjoy it without up-grading to a main frame.  The mini map and small icons are like a "built in quest helper".

It looks like an enjoyable game that has a ton of potential. Some might like it's Pay to Win format.  I do not.

Please keep this in mind, before the fanbois and kiddies begin flaming:  I like the GAME.  I dislike the Pay to Win format.

Originally posted by Piivot

I recently tried playing it for two days.  I discovered on the second day, in the Item Mall, that you can buy gems and other items to boost your gear using Real Money.    I announced what I had discovered in general chat.  (zone chat)  I was instantly assaulted verbally with such things as," Can't handle it, leave", "I suggest you go try Wow." Good riddance".    

I have a hard time believing that your "announcement" was anything other than condescending based on the reaction you got.  "Hey guys did you know you can buy gems to boost your gear on the CS?"... "Go back to WoW".  Doesn't exactly make much sense does it?  I'm sure it was more like "man this sucks, whoever buys the most stuff on the CS wins the game."

Yeah there have been inappropriate conversations in zone chat (and I hope you reported any that stepped over the line or you're just perpetuating the problem), but by and large people have been friendly and helpful whenever someone asks a question or needs assistence... something WoW hasn't seen in ages except between guildmates.  I have had zero problems finding someone to lend me a hand with a difficult quest or locate some mob that I need to kill.  It's even common for high levels to visit the starter zone and broadcast their availability for anyone who needs help and/or buffs.  That speaks volumes for RoM as far as I'm concerned.

Originally posted by Netspook

That's not "RoM's idea". They stole it from FFXI, an almost 7 years old game!! In FFXI, the second class is called a subjob - you can change main and sub freely, and can use any of the jobs as either. The only restictions are that some jobs (classes) must be unlocked before they are available, and the sub will never be higher than half of the main's lvl. So imo, "Rom's idea", as you call it, is a poor version of an old and excellent feature.

And about RoM vs WoW:

They stole almost everything from WoW. There's not a single original feature in this game. Whatever they didn't steal from WoW (not much...) can be found in other games.

Two issues is about to ruin this game completely for me:

- It has the worst, most lacking, itemisation I've seen in any mmorpg.

- Gathering raw materials for crafting is the worst grind I've ever experienced. It takes an eternity to farm a node, 4-5 seconds for each gathered item, maximum is well over half a minute per node. And you need A LOT. Then you have to turn the raw materials into usable stuff, which takes several minutes for each and every stack. And for some recipes, you must process further before crafting anything (example: sand -> ingots). Some calls EQ2's system an insane grind - well, EQ2 is supereasy-mode compared to this.

RoM isn't a bad game, overall. But there's not a single feature in the game where you don't think "been there, done that". So it won't hold my interest for long. And nothing the cash shop is offering will improve that.

Want me to count up the things Wow stole from Everquest? That is how the game market works. Blizz tried to make a better version of EQ, Rom is a cheaper version of Wow... There are precious few features of Wow that we havn't seen in any other game earlier too.

Still I don't think ROM is as nearly as good as Wow, it is more worth the price it costs to play it however.

Originally posted by Sixpax

Originally posted by Piivot

I recently tried playing it for two days.  I discovered on the second day, in the Item Mall, that you can buy gems and other items to boost your gear using Real Money.    I announced what I had discovered in general chat.  (zone chat)  I was instantly assaulted verbally with such things as," Can't handle it, leave", "I suggest you go try Wow." Good riddance".    

I have a hard time believing that your "announcement" was anything other than condescending based on the reaction you got.  "Hey guys did you know you can buy gems to boost your gear on the CS?"... "Go back to WoW".  Doesn't exactly make much sense does it?  I'm sure it was more like "man this sucks, whoever buys the most stuff on the CS wins the game."

I'm almost reading this as a  personal attack.  I wasn't pointing fingers at you.  No need for YOU to be so condescending.  Relax.  
 

If I had said it as you did, I would expect retorts like that.  I posted what I did because I was amazed at the rude responses I received.  Not everyone has to be a pompous ass, or converse with a twelve year old mentality.

But I appreciate your guess on what happened.  Thanks for applying your logic (Circle) to what happened without your presence. 

Originally posted by Piivot

Originally posted by Sixpax

Originally posted by Piivot

I recently tried playing it for two days.  I discovered on the second day, in the Item Mall, that you can buy gems and other items to boost your gear using Real Money.    I announced what I had discovered in general chat.  (zone chat)  I was instantly assaulted verbally with such things as," Can't handle it, leave", "I suggest you go try Wow." Good riddance".    

I have a hard time believing that your "announcement" was anything other than condescending based on the reaction you got.  "Hey guys did you know you can buy gems to boost your gear on the CS?"... "Go back to WoW".  Doesn't exactly make much sense does it?  I'm sure it was more like "man this sucks, whoever buys the most stuff on the CS wins the game."

I'm almost reading this as a  personal attack.  I wasn't pointing fingers at you.  No need for YOU to be so condescending.  Relax.  
 

If I had said it as you did, I would expect retorts like that.  I posted what I did because I was amazed at the rude responses I received.  Not everyone has to be a pompous ass, or converse with a twelve year old mentality.

But I appreciate your guess on what happened.  Thanks for applying your logic (Circle) to what happened without your presence. 

Definitely not meant as a personal attack.  If I were any more relaxed right now, I'd be dead.  Perhaps I stated it with more vigor than needed <shrug>.  I just find what you posted to be hard to believe (the part about getting slammed for announcing to general chat on your CS findings) based on my experience in RoM so far, but granted I was not there.  I have heard the occasional inappropriate conversations, but nothing even close to resembling players attacking one another aside from random sarcasm meant in jest.  However, I dare say something like what you described as happening isn't the norm for RoM like it is in WoW.  Of course that could be because RoM is new and people aren't as jaded as the addicts in WoW who can't seem to let go.

Originally posted by noobist

And how is gathering raw materials for crafting a bad idea at all? It's called crafting. . . what do you want an easy button to craft the best and most uber item within 1 second? Just go back to WoW imo since you seem like a WoW player and cant handle the difficulty of other games.

ROFL to you sir.

Clueless, that's obvious. Try to know something about this before opening your piehole next time.

Spending 5 seconds for each gathered material, have nothing to do with difficulty. You may be a no-lifer who looooves to spend hours doing the same operation over and over again, but if you think that makes you some kind of skilled player that can handle this "difficulty" your talking about, then you're a moron.

Let me give you an example of how retarded grindy the gathering and refining system is in this game:

To lvl all three gathering professions from lvl 20 to 26 (up one tier, the lvl 21 mats are considered semi-rare, and not counted as a tier), I collected and processed almost 2,000 mats. It takes 5 seconds to gather one, and it takes 2 mats (another 5 secs) to refine it into something usable.

2,000 mats gathered = 10,000 seconds

1,000 refines = 5,000 seconds

15,000 seconds = 4 hours 10 minutes

That's how long it would take if you stood still at the same place and constantly clicked on a node till you had 2,000 mats, and immediately refined everything in one process. Add running between nodes, killing mobs, going back to clear inventory, going between crafting stations, do some banking, etc, and you can multiply that number many, many times.

This is also without crafting one single item!

And all this is for a few lvls in a very low tier. It's MUCH MUCH worse at higher tiers, as progress gets slower as your lvls increases.

And this is ok for you?

Most players tries gathering + crafting, but quickly gives up. In the first zone, especially near the colony, there's a lot of node ninjaing going on, ppl constantly competing for the resources. In Silverspring (lvl 10-20), I've seen some other players gathering, but not many. In the third zone (Aslan, lvl 20-30), I've seen ONE other player gathering during all those hours spent there. This is on the EU server Siochain.

The lack of other gatherers after the starting zone is why I actually did all this. I thought I'd be making lots of money by being the only (or one of few) player selling mats at higher tiers. But even by selling at AH as the only seller, or advertising in chat, for a price lowered over time to slightly above vendor price, I have not yet been able to sell anything at all. Because almost no one is crafting at this (again: very low!!!) tier. That's why I gave up here.

Next time, try to back up your opinions with something better than "just go back to WoW". If that's all you can come up with, then I'd say the first 4 letters in your nick suits you perfectly.

No one going to mention there is only 5 ZONES!

Otherwise, This game has a ton of potential!

More than 5 zones.  You just have to teleport to the 2nd starter area or run a really really long way to get to them.

Originally posted by WastedAgain

No one going to mention there is only 5 ZONES!

 

Otherwise, This game has a ton of potential!

Another clueless noob....

1. Howling Mountains
2. Silverspring
3. Aslan Valley
4. Ystra Highland
5. Dustdevil Canyon
6. Sascilia Steppes
7. Dragonfang Ridge

That's your "only 5 zones". Not many, but certainly not only 5.

Originally posted by Netspook

Originally posted by WastedAgain

No one going to mention there is only 5 ZONES!

 

Otherwise, This game has a ton of potential!

 

Another clueless noob....

1. Howling Mountains
2. Silverspring
3. Aslan Valley
4. Ystra Highland
5. Dustdevil Canyon
6. Sascilia Steppes
7. Dragonfang Ridge

That's your "only 5 zones". Not many, but certainly not only 5.

 

Lets not forget.  So far.  Game isn't even live yet so there are many more zones to come.

Insert Quote

Try in a witty manner to prove how stupid someone is.

I win.

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Originally posted by Reizla

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Originally posted by Untouchable8

its wow for poor people.
 
 
its as good as wow

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OMFG... An other one who doesn't know dick about MMORPG's and claims RoM to be WoW...
I bet you say that about every new game that'll be released...
Lets get back to basics & enlighten you on the differences...
RoM is FFA PvP, WoW is RvR
RoM PvP is alignbased - if you PK someone you'll suffer concequences. WoW PvP is gank the other side
RoM offers no gear as reward for PvP, WoW does
RoM knows dualclass system (good option IMO), WoW has only 1 class far your char
I can go on with differences like this for an hour at least... I only agree on the fact that the graphics & interface show familiarities, but then again, WoW wasn't the 1st MMORPG on the market, which will mean that RoM != WoW
 

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Please, can you do that, describe differences for an hour !!! :)

/junker

i would say if your bored with warcraft or fed up with the mess the game is in at present  runes of magic is worth downloading as a filler game . i ve played a few f2p mmos this is a lot better than  most . perfect worlds not bad either . i ve a feeeling this might end  up being very popular .

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Originally posted by Netspook
 
Let me give you an example of how retarded grindy the gathering and refining system is in this game:

To lvl all three gathering professions from lvl 20 to 26 (up one tier, the lvl 21 mats are considered semi-rare, and not counted as a tier), I collected and processed almost 2,000 mats. It takes 5 seconds to gather one, and it takes 2 mats (another 5 secs) to refine it into something usable.

2,000 mats gathered = 10,000 seconds
1,000 refines = 5,000 seconds
15,000 seconds = 4 hours 10 minutes

That's how long it would take if you stood still at the same place and constantly clicked on a node till you had 2,000 mats, and immediately refined everything in one process. Add running between nodes, killing mobs, going back to clear inventory, going between crafting stations, do some banking, etc, and you can multiply that number many, many times.
This is also without crafting one single item!

And all this is for a few lvls in a very low tier. It's MUCH MUCH worse at higher tiers, as progress gets slower as your lvls increases.

And this is ok for you?

Most players tries gathering + crafting, but quickly gives up. In the first zone, especially near the colony, there's a lot of node ninjaing going on, ppl constantly competing for the resources. In Silverspring (lvl 10-20), I've seen some other players gathering, but not many. In the third zone (Aslan, lvl 20-30), I've seen ONE other player gathering during all those hours spent there. This is on the EU server Siochain.

---

I don't mind a grindy/lengthy crafting process. In fact, I'd rather have it be this way so that not everyone and their brother is a high level crafter and competition is so rampant that you can't even make a profit at it (i.e. WoW). Besides, if you gather/craft as you level it's not nearly as painful as you make it sound, and there's always the option of buying the mats from the AH which would save you a ton of time.

Also, as far as making stuff you can use, I'm doing 2 crafts on separate alts (alchemy on one, and blacksmithing on another) and I haven't had any trouble keeping my craft/gathering levels in sync with my character level (both are in Aslan) and I'm making level appropriate stuff. My rogue/warrior is using the daggers and axes that I made, and my knight/priest is using the potions that I made, so it has been worthwhile. However, I can see how it would be a chore if you leveled up your char first and then decided to go back and pick up crafting.

The problem is people want it to be just like WoW where it's easy and painless and you don't have to put any effort into it.

Originally posted by Sixpax

 

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Originally posted by Netspook
 
Let me give you an example of how retarded grindy the gathering and refining system is in this game:

 

To lvl all three gathering professions from lvl 20 to 26 (up one tier, the lvl 21 mats are considered semi-rare, and not counted as a tier), I collected and processed almost 2,000 mats. It takes 5 seconds to gather one, and it takes 2 mats (another 5 secs) to refine it into something usable.

2,000 mats gathered = 10,000 seconds
1,000 refines = 5,000 seconds
15,000 seconds = 4 hours 10 minutes

That's how long it would take if you stood still at the same place and constantly clicked on a node till you had 2,000 mats, and immediately refined everything in one process. Add running between nodes, killing mobs, going back to clear inventory, going between crafting stations, do some banking, etc, and you can multiply that number many, many times.
This is also without crafting one single item!

And all this is for a few lvls in a very low tier. It's MUCH MUCH worse at higher tiers, as progress gets slower as your lvls increases.

And this is ok for you?

Most players tries gathering + crafting, but quickly gives up. In the first zone, especially near the colony, there's a lot of node ninjaing going on, ppl constantly competing for the resources. In Silverspring (lvl 10-20), I've seen some other players gathering, but not many. In the third zone (Aslan, lvl 20-30), I've seen ONE other player gathering during all those hours spent there. This is on the EU server Siochain.

---

 

I don't mind a grindy/lengthy crafting process. In fact, I'd rather have it be this way so that not everyone and their brother is a high level crafter and competition is so rampant that you can't even make a profit at it (i.e. WoW). Besides, if you gather/craft as you level it's not nearly as painful as you make it sound, and there's always the option of buying the mats from the AH which would save you a ton of time.

Also, as far as making stuff you can use, I'm doing 2 crafts on separate alts (alchemy on one, and blacksmithing on another) and I haven't had any trouble keeping my craft/gathering levels in sync with my character level (both are in Aslan) and I'm making level appropriate stuff. My rogue/warrior is using the daggers and axes that I made, and my knight/priest is using the potions that I made, so it has been worthwhile. However, I can see how it would be a chore if you leveled up your char first and then decided to go back and pick up crafting.

The problem is people want it to be just like WoW where it's easy and painless and you don't have to put any effort into it.

You gather for 2 crafting professions and claim to have no problems keeping your crafting lvls in sync with your character lvl? I find that very hard to believe, at least unless you buy some xp potions or whatever from the cash shop.

Take a look at the EU forums. There are very few players bothering with crafting at all, especially after lvl 20. Those who does, claims it's almost impossible to keep ONE crafting lvl in sync with their character lvl, simply because that the mobs you occationally kill while gathering, is enough to outlvl your character compared to the crafting lvl.

This isn't about wanting to have it easy and painless, as you claim. It's a complaint about a system almost no one seems to bother with, except for the first very low and very few lvls.

I see that you edited out my comment about selling at the AH. Therefore, I guess that's something you really don't want to discuss, for whatever reason.

I would rather have "everyone and their brother" at high lvls compared to the current situation. For several reasons. It would ensure that both mats and crafted stuff at any tier/lvl is available to buy, that's the main one. As for making a profit, what's so important with that, in this game? Most players with both main and secondary class at lvl 35+, have millions of gold with nothing to spend it on.

In the end I doubt it really matters. At least on the EU side, ppl are sick and tired of bugs not being fixed, translations delayed, etc. And the latest nerf patch, ruined a major part of the game for a lot of players, the part where the title is from: runes. Almost no one bothers with it anymore, since the stats are nerfed with UP TO 80%. This alone caused a mini-exodus.

RoM is a sinking ship, even before it's released. All because of fairly minor issues, which are easy to fix.

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Originally posted by Netspook

You gather for 2 crafting professions and claim to have no problems keeping your crafting lvls in sync with your character lvl? I find that very hard to believe, at least unless you buy some xp potions or whatever from the cash shop.

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Well I'm sorry you find it hard to believe, it's true. I gather as I'm out doing quests and when I go back to town I take time to refine and work on my craft.

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Originally posted by Netspook
Take a look at the EU forums. There are very few players bothering with crafting at all, especially after lvl 20. Those who does, claims it's almost impossible to keep ONE crafting lvl in sync with their character lvl, simply because that the mobs you occationally kill while gathering, is enough to outlvl your character compared to the crafting lvl.

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Not sure why I'd need to look at the EU forums when my own in-game experience tells me all the info I need to know and that you're exaggerating. Since we have to level both our primary and secondary classes, there's plenty of opportunity to gather what you need to keep your crafting up to your level. Seriously think about what you're saying... that killing an occasional monster as you gather is enough to level BOTH of your classes?

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Originally posted by Netspook
This isn't about wanting to have it easy and painless, as you claim. It's a complaint about a system almost no one seems to bother with, except for the first very low and very few lvls.

I see that you edited out my comment about selling at the AH. Therefore, I guess that's something you really don't want to discuss, for whatever reason.

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I shortened the quote of your post just to focus on your main complaint. I don't gather to make money so that comment doesn't apply to me, and the limited market of high level mats is just another indication that people want easy mode when it comes to crafting.

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Originally posted by Netspook
I would rather have "everyone and their brother" at high lvls compared to the current situation. For several reasons. It would ensure that both mats and crafted stuff at any tier/lvl is available to buy, that's the main one. As for making a profit, what's so important with that, in this game? Most players with both main and secondary class at lvl 35+, have millions of gold with nothing to spend it on.

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That doesn't make sense to me. You say people have millions of gold with nothing to spend it on, but they won't buy mats from the AH to powerlevel their crafting? This isn't adding up (and I bet you can guess why).

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Originally posted by Netspook
In the end I doubt it really matters. At least on the EU side, ppl are sick and tired of bugs not being fixed, translations delayed, etc. And the latest nerf patch, ruined a major part of the game for a lot of players, the part where the title is from: runes. Almost no one bothers with it anymore, since the stats are nerfed with UP TO 80%. This alone caused a mini-exodus.

RoM is a sinking ship, even before it's released. All because of fairly minor issues, which are easy to fix.

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The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Originally posted by Sixpax

 

 

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Originally posted by Netspook
I would rather have "everyone and their brother" at high lvls compared to the current situation. For several reasons. It would ensure that both mats and crafted stuff at any tier/lvl is available to buy, that's the main one. As for making a profit, what's so important with that, in this game? Most players with both main and secondary class at lvl 35+, have millions of gold with nothing to spend it on.

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That doesn't make sense to me. You say people have millions of gold with nothing to spend it on, but they won't buy mats from the AH to powerlevel their crafting? This isn't adding up (and I bet you can guess why).

Oh, come on, you're not that stupid. But I'll spell it out to you, just in case.

When most, almost everyone, doesn't bother with the insane grind gathering is, there is NOTHING to buy at the AH. Meaning powerlvling is NOT an option.

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Originally posted by Netspook
 
Oh, come on, you're not that stupid. But I'll spell it out to you, just in case.

 

When most, almost everyone, doesn't bother with the insane grind gathering is, there is NOTHING to buy at the AH. Meaning powerlvling is NOT an option.

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Always a good idea to start a response with a personal attack. It makes the rest of your points almost seem valid... no really.

 Anyway, call it what you will, it's still just laziness on the part of the players. WoW brought us instant gratification and now people won't settle for anything else. Hurrah for the sense of entitlement generation.

In other news... I got another level on my priest last night and subsequently another level on my blacksmithing which let me make this sweet shield (that's level appropriate for him) and  the kicker is it's better than anything for sale on the AH or that I could get from a quest or NPC. Good times!