Originally posted by precious328

The launch is less than 1 month away and I see no information on entities such as Gamestop etc. Have they mentioned anything on how us westerners can obtain a copy of Darkfall? Moreover, why hasn't there been any leaked footage on YouTube? It's been known that EVERY mmorpg that's in beta has had countless videos and NDA breaks that reside on YouTube. All I can seem to find in terms of Darkfall are a million fan films on the same old video.

There is a leak already. And no, not "EVERY" Mmorpg has had countless nda breaks, just some of the more recent very high profile mmos.

Also aventurine said if they cannot find a american publisher, that they would self publish, and probably do a digital download for us. So you will probably end up buying it online, also their wouldnt be too much stuff on that because there is no pre-orders for it.

Originally posted by Enigma

Originally posted by imbant

...thanks for keeping DF on the front page as the most anticipated game which helps spread the word.  Couldn't have done it without ya!

that's actually from the hundreds of darkfall fans creating 1 to 8 alts and hyping the game to 10.  Run an ip checker on that page; 95% of all voters have more than two mmorpg accounts.

Also partly in thanks to you for even bothering postings views or making comments in the DF threads. Surely you knew that discussion and topics/how popular talking in a games forum gives it hype.

Under that logic, Even trolls are helping DF's hype meter rise, and in time, I am sure most of them atleast payed off their ( 1 hype ) that they gave at some point.

Originally posted by ianicus

Originally posted by behindtheed

Originally posted by ianicus

Originally posted by behindtheed

Originally posted by ianicus

heres what I dont get, even F2P asian grinders have splash adds up on this website in the frames.....yet not a damn thing about DF....in fact no marketing....at all....anywhere....period. I wanna see this game, but christ if they cant pony up a few bucks to get the box art flashed on a few gameing sites, not even BIG gameing sites...I have serious reservations.

 

Though I'm sure many gamers like you think that re-playing  an animated add over and over again on the side of a website, and cool pictures with flashy colours make a good game. The rest of us are happy with the numerous articles and interviews Darkfall does on many gaming websites, including this one - and simply word of mouth about the game, because the promising content in the game is what will sell it, not over hyping and advertising.

 

word of mouth....yes it would appear that the developers of DF have truely harnessed the power of the internet! Seriously they could at least spend a few bucks getting the word out instead of looking like amatuers...Perhaps if they were selling cookies and freash baked bread down the street I could buy your "word of mouth" argument...but its about as solid to stand on as said freash baked bread....pita anyone??

 

You missed the point. If you think pictures are a better way to advertise then interviews and articles, then you need to give up on life asap

wow..."give up on life" lol its statements like that which cause me to pity people like yourself (and question your age). Here's a quick marketing 101 for you. Word of mouth is on the BOTTOM of the marketing totem poll, something thats usualy generated  by the end user because they have USED the product for which they are spreading the word....in THIS case...you and I know not a SINGLE person that has acctualy played the game, thus any word of mouth "advertiseing" at this point is speculative at the very most, AKA worthless hot air. The only benefit to word of mouth at this point is "hey I saw some info about this game, looks interesting...I think it was called uhhh....darktrip? dark....slip? something like that dude, check it out!". As you can see not nearly as effective as it could be in some instances im sure. Heres where a good marketing campaign comes in. Throw up some adds highlighting confirmed game mechanics and information about the game that would inspire people, more people than just haunt these boards, to take a look at the game, than keep your website regularly updated (which they have not) and keep players informed with firm info on progress (which they have not). Case closed.

What are you rambling on about? How is a flashy add on the side of a website better then an informative article about the in-game features? Word of mouth appears to be doing a fine job, you complain that Darkfall isn't advertising, yet it's the most hyped game on this very site. I've told 3 friends I know in real life about the game, and about 6 I know online, and all of them have now become interested and started following its development . Not to mention I myself had heard it from a friend.

How don't you understand that selling an MMO is different then selling a fucking Shamwow? It's clear your a troll now, because anyone who would critique one of the most highly anticipated and talked about games, for not having enough "mainstream" advertising, wouldn't be capable of typing a giant block of text bitching about it.

Originally posted by behindtheed

Originally posted by ianicus

Originally posted by behindtheed

Originally posted by ianicus

heres what I dont get, even F2P asian grinders have splash adds up on this website in the frames.....yet not a damn thing about DF....in fact no marketing....at all....anywhere....period. I wanna see this game, but christ if they cant pony up a few bucks to get the box art flashed on a few gameing sites, not even BIG gameing sites...I have serious reservations.

 

Though I'm sure many gamers like you think that re-playing  an animated add over and over again on the side of a website, and cool pictures with flashy colours make a good game. The rest of us are happy with the numerous articles and interviews Darkfall does on many gaming websites, including this one - and simply word of mouth about the game, because the promising content in the game is what will sell it, not over hyping and advertising.

 

word of mouth....yes it would appear that the developers of DF have truely harnessed the power of the internet! Seriously they could at least spend a few bucks getting the word out instead of looking like amatuers...Perhaps if they were selling cookies and freash baked bread down the street I could buy your "word of mouth" argument...but its about as solid to stand on as said freash baked bread....pita anyone??

 

You missed the point. If you think pictures are a better way to advertise then interviews and articles, then you need to give up on life asap.

Ummm...

I come to MMORPG.com, and the first thing I see (depending on when it is) is a full-screen ad for AoC, or a large-ish animated banner beneath the "Features List", or a tall vertical banner on the right side of the page. It takes me zero effort to see those.. Why? Because they're right in front of me, staring me in the face.

By comparison, an interview - even if it's in the "Featured Headlines" section - requires me to A: take enough interest in the game being talked about and B: care enough to click on the article and read it.

You seriously t hink the latter gets more eyeballs on it - including those who haven't heard of the game in question - than the former?

Aside from it being an ad hominem attack that gives no credibility to your statement, you are in no position to tell anyone they "need to give up on life asap."

Sure, maybe *you* and others you know are eagerly awaiting any news about DF and hanging on every word... but to the average visitor who is, perhaps, more interested in another MMO or couldn't care less about DF, an "interview" is not going to be as effective as a colorful ad right in their face.

This is why companies *pay* to have advertisement on websites, in magazines, etc - because it's more effective.

Originally posted by mcpoopypantz

Originally posted by winter

Originally posted by NeroScuro

Originally posted by winter

 1. Ok sure, now go back to your post and read what you wrote. go ahead I'll wait. You don't notice where you say there are people in the OPEN BETA? Its your #2 point. here let me quote "There are members of the public in the open beta." Sorry but If you don't know what your typing then your not gonna have a very strong case.

2 Sorry but go back to his posts. he never said he hoped DF would be released in 2008 as you infer, he never said he hoped Open beta would end in early December. he said these things would happen no wiggle room, which for him is admittedly very odd.

 I agree the game will be what it will be dispite what Tasos does or does not claim but then i wasn't the one claiming Tasos has never lied just wanted to set things straight for the record. He has, he does, and as you yourself noted above he is really no different then any other MMO's PR man except perhaps abit worse at his job.

 

1. Oh right, I made a typo. See, I was confused because you just latched on that one mistake and completely ignored almost the entirety of the rest of my post. It was almost as though you were trying to imply the rest of my points are automatically moot because of a typo, but of course you weren't doing that! That would just be retarded, now wouldn't it?

2. We're just getting into an argument about semantics here. All I'm going to say is, he never said these things would happen. No PR person, no matter how bad, would ever promise anything they weren't 100% beyond doubt of.

He said that he hoped things would happen, he said it was scheduled, he said it was their commitment. None of those things are a promise. They're misleading and confusing, no argument there, but you wouldn't say someone was lying if they broke a schedule - they'd be late, that's it.

 Generally typos are spelling errors, when you claim other people are posting misleading and incorrect info yet then type a game that is in closed beta is in OPEN beta thats a fairly large typo. Even weirder to say you made a honest mistake with a typo but say I'm retareded for pointing out the glaring misinformation you were spreading?
 

  I did not latch on that one thing though. I saw 2 things wrong with your arguement. #2 and #4. I went even more in depth on number 4 yet you ignored that and claim that I latched on number 2? Sorry you are wrong, you were proven wrong and now rather then admit you were wrong your going the "I made a typo your a retard route"? Sorry but insults don't win arguements and so far yours has not beeen based in facts. Guess I need to get the direct quotes as Tasos never said he hoped Df would be out in 2008 or that he hoped Open beta would end in early December. A commitment is much like a promise, if you say your are commiting to doing something and then you don't I would classify that as a lie. Sure would hate to have to start quoting the dictionary though.

 Edit: The past is the past though not much sense beating a dead horse though, so lets look to the future. Tasos/AV has commited to a Jan 22nd launch of DF. there was no "We hope to have DF by the 22nd", or "We plan to have DF out byt the 22nd" So if DF is not released by the 22nd are we still gonna hear how Tasos never lied? I mean if so what exactly does classify as a lie to the fans? Yes i could go goggle the dictionary but we all know different people have different prospectives so i am wondering at what point some people draw the line.

  Lets say your cars in the shop, and I tell you "sure your car will be ready tonight, its totally fixed and runs better then almost any other car on the street", so you come in later that night and i tell you. "sorry your cars still not ready come back next week. did I lie? or am I just late on a schedule? 

 

 

Its late on a schedule. When my gf says she will be ready to go out at 9pm and at 9 says "Im runnign a little late need 15 more minutes" I dont yell LIAR!!! I know she just had to push the time back a little... and im fine with that cuz she will look better when she is ready.

What about when she says "Oh, I've been made up and ready to go out for hours now", but then when you arrive to pick her up, tells you "Oh, well I need to check my make-up and do some further adjustments to my outfit before I'm ready to go out... It'll be another hour or two."

Is that simply a mistake as well?

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by behindtheed

Originally posted by ianicus

Originally posted by behindtheed

Originally posted by ianicus

heres what I dont get, even F2P asian grinders have splash adds up on this website in the frames.....yet not a damn thing about DF....in fact no marketing....at all....anywhere....period. I wanna see this game, but christ if they cant pony up a few bucks to get the box art flashed on a few gameing sites, not even BIG gameing sites...I have serious reservations.

 

Though I'm sure many gamers like you think that re-playing  an animated add over and over again on the side of a website, and cool pictures with flashy colours make a good game. The rest of us are happy with the numerous articles and interviews Darkfall does on many gaming websites, including this one - and simply word of mouth about the game, because the promising content in the game is what will sell it, not over hyping and advertising.

 

word of mouth....yes it would appear that the developers of DF have truely harnessed the power of the internet! Seriously they could at least spend a few bucks getting the word out instead of looking like amatuers...Perhaps if they were selling cookies and freash baked bread down the street I could buy your "word of mouth" argument...but its about as solid to stand on as said freash baked bread....pita anyone??

 

You missed the point. If you think pictures are a better way to advertise then interviews and articles, then you need to give up on life asap.

 

Ummm...

I come to MMORPG.com, and the first thing I see (depending on when it is) is a full-screen ad for AoC, or a large-ish animated banner beneath the "Features List", or a tall vertical banner on the right side of the page. It takes me zero effort to see those.. Why? Because they're right in front of me, staring me in the face.

By comparison, an interview - even if it's in the "Featured Headlines" section - requires me to A: take enough interest in the game being talked about and B: care enough to click on the article and read it.

You seriously t hink the latter gets more eyeballs on it - including those who haven't heard of the game in question - than the former?

Aside from it being an ad hominem attack that gives no credibility to your statement, you are in no position to tell anyone they "need to give up on life asap."

Sure, maybe *you* and others you know are eagerly awaiting any news about DF and hanging on every word... but to the average visitor who is, perhaps, more interested in another MMO or couldn't care less about DF, an "interview" is not going to be as effective as a colorful ad right in their face.

This is why companies *pay* to have banner ads and such on websites - because it's more effective.

 

yeah tell that to all the other games right under Darkfall on the hype list.

Are you seriously telling me that seeing that  elephant hit a guy in the face over and over in that annoying animated AoC add makes you want to check out the game? Obviously darkfall is doing a successful job at spreading word of it's game, so I don't see what your problem is.

Aside from it being an ad hominem attack that gives no credibility to your statement, you are in no position to tell anyone they "need to give up on life asap."

You might want to understand the meaning of what you preach before you preach it.

Me saying he needs to "give  up on life asap", be it stupid, was emphazising that I don't agree with his point. Which is not the same as bringing up something about him thats unrelated to the actual argument, to attract attention away from the facts.

Originally posted by behindtheed

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by behindtheed

Originally posted by ianicus

Originally posted by behindtheed

Originally posted by ianicus

heres what I dont get, even F2P asian grinders have splash adds up on this website in the frames.....yet not a damn thing about DF....in fact no marketing....at all....anywhere....period. I wanna see this game, but christ if they cant pony up a few bucks to get the box art flashed on a few gameing sites, not even BIG gameing sites...I have serious reservations.

 

Though I'm sure many gamers like you think that re-playing  an animated add over and over again on the side of a website, and cool pictures with flashy colours make a good game. The rest of us are happy with the numerous articles and interviews Darkfall does on many gaming websites, including this one - and simply word of mouth about the game, because the promising content in the game is what will sell it, not over hyping and advertising.

 

word of mouth....yes it would appear that the developers of DF have truely harnessed the power of the internet! Seriously they could at least spend a few bucks getting the word out instead of looking like amatuers...Perhaps if they were selling cookies and freash baked bread down the street I could buy your "word of mouth" argument...but its about as solid to stand on as said freash baked bread....pita anyone??

 

You missed the point. If you think pictures are a better way to advertise then interviews and articles, then you need to give up on life asap.

 

Ummm...

I come to MMORPG.com, and the first thing I see (depending on when it is) is a full-screen ad for AoC, or a large-ish animated banner beneath the "Features List", or a tall vertical banner on the right side of the page. It takes me zero effort to see those.. Why? Because they're right in front of me, staring me in the face.

By comparison, an interview - even if it's in the "Featured Headlines" section - requires me to A: take enough interest in the game being talked about and B: care enough to click on the article and read it.

You seriously t hink the latter gets more eyeballs on it - including those who haven't heard of the game in question - than the former?

Aside from it being an ad hominem attack that gives no credibility to your statement, you are in no position to tell anyone they "need to give up on life asap."

Sure, maybe *you* and others you know are eagerly awaiting any news about DF and hanging on every word... but to the average visitor who is, perhaps, more interested in another MMO or couldn't care less about DF, an "interview" is not going to be as effective as a colorful ad right in their face.

This is why companies *pay* to have banner ads and such on websites - because it's more effective.

 

 

yeah tell that to all the other games right under Darkfall on the hype list.

You mean the games right under, Darkfall, and Aion and Jumpgate Evolution, and Runes of Magic and Star Wars: Old Republic, and Stargate Worlds and Chronicles of Spellborn? Those all have a 8.4 rating, as of my time posting this.

See? I can look at the hype ratings, too... Only I don't have selective eyesight when I do it.

There are 7 MMOs at "8.4" on the hype scale, with several more at "8.3", right behind them. Because a whole bunch of people are following those games, too.

Are you seriously telling me that seeing that  elephant hit a guy in the face over and over in that annoying animated AoC add makes you want to check out the game? Obviously darkfall is doing a successful job at spreading word of it's game, so I don't see what your problem is.

I see.

So you're saying that, basically, all these other companies are just throwing money away advertising their games...  All they really need is a particularly loyal and vocal fanbase who can hype up a game that has yet to be released, and they'd get more attention than those who actually put up full-color and/or animated ads?

Am I understanding you correctly? I mean, I don't want to be accused of putting words in your mouth. Before I tell you to quit whatever it is you're smoking, I want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly.

Of course I'm being facetious in that last paragraph.

But, I'll play along and put it in very simple terms:

In order to do so, I need you to forget for a moment that you're a raving DF fan who's entire reason for coming to this site may well be to follow that game. Put yourselves in the shoes of some other random visitor to the site who, perhaps, is following another game; or otherwise, just isn't familiar with DF at all or isn't as interested in it as you are.

I know it's difficult, but try... because that's really the key thing I think you're missing here.

You come here and immediately see colorful ads of varying size and shape for games you are, perhaps, only remotely aware of. Even more, some of them are animated.

Do you seriously believe you're going to notice a text link to an article about a game you (again, in this scenario) are not even necessarily aware of *before* you notice those bright, colorful ads?

Now be honest... remember, forget you're a DF Fan and resist the urge to say "yes I would because DF is the shiznit and makes all those look ridiculous".

Advertising is meant to get more eyeballs on a product that might otherwise not be seen. This is why the price of advertisement goes up based on the amount of page space or placement. Because the larger or more readily an ad is seen, the more likely it is to get a response.

Advertising is a numbers game. Out of "X number" who see an ad, "Y number" will check it out. Out of that number, "Z number" will actually purchase the product.  So, the idea is to get that "X number" as high as you can. And you do that via smart product size and placement as well as clever ad design.

We're talking basic Advertising here... This isn't some obscure, unproven theory. Companies pay good money for advertising... because it *works*.

Word-of-mouth and interviews and articles to help to spread the info... But not as well nor as quickly. DF may well do well enough with word-of-mouth alone.. I won't argue otherwise because I don't know what will happen when it's actually released. Only time will tell on that.

However, to make an argument that word-of-mouth is at least as good as paid advertising in getting a product in front of people's eyeballs is beyond ignorant.

 

yeah tell that to all the other games right under Darkfall on the hype list.

You mean the games right under, Darkfall, and Aion and Jumpgate Evolution, and Runes of Magic and Star Wars: Old Republic, and Stargate Worlds and Chronicles of Spellborn? Those all have a 8.4 rating, as of my time posting this.

See? I can look at the hype ratings, too... Only I don't have selective eyesight when I do it.

This is why there are 7 MMOs at "8.4" on the hype scale, with several more at "8.3", right behind them. Because a whole bunch of people are following those games, too.

Are you seriously telling me that seeing that  elephant hit a guy in the face over and over in that annoying animated AoC add makes you want to check out the game? Obviously darkfall is doing a successful job at spreading word of it's game, so I don't see what your problem is.

I see.

So you're saying that, basically, all these other companies are just throwing money away advertising their games...  All they really need is a particularly loyal and vocal fanbase who can hype up a game that has yet to be released, and they'd get more eyeballs than those who actually put up full-color and/or animated ads?

Am I understanding you correctly? I mean, I don't want to be accused of putting words in your mouth. Before I tell you to quit whatever it is you're smoking, I want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly.

Of course I'm being facetious in that last paragraph.

But, I'll play along and put it in very simple terms:

In order to do so, I need you to forget for a moment that you're a raving DF fan who's entire reason for coming to this site may well be to follow that game. Put yourselves in the shoes of some other random visitor to the site who, perhaps, is following another game; or otherwise, just isn't familiar with DF at all or isn't as interested in it as you are.

I know it's difficult, but try... because that's really the key thing I think you're missing here.

You come here and immediately see colorful ads of varying size and shape for games you are, perhaps, only remotely aware of. Even more, some of them are animated.

Do you seriously believe you're going to notice a text link to an article about a game you (again, in this scenario) are not even necessarily aware of *before* you notice those bright, colorful ads?

Now be honest... remember, forget you're a DF Fan and resist the urge to say "yes I would because DF is the shiznit and makes all those look ridiculous".

Advertising is meant to get more eyeballs on a product that might otherwise not be seen. This is why the price of advertisement goes up based on the amount of page space or placement. Because the larger or more readily an ad is seen, the more likely it is to get a response.

We're talking basic Advertising here... This isn't some obscure, unproven theory. Companies pay good money for advertising... because it *works*.

Word-of-mouth and interviews and articles to help to spread the info... But not as well nor as quickly. DF may well do well enough with word-of-mouth alone.. I won't argue otherwise because I don't know what will happen when it's actually released. Only time will tell on that.

However, to make an argument that word-of-mouth is at least as good as paid advertising in getting a product in front of people's eyeballs is beyond ignorant.

 

 

firstly, raving DF fan? wtf? I say it's one of the most discussed upcomming MMOs (if not most) out there, so that  makes me a fanboy?

I don't understand why you wouldn't play a game because they didn't blow the precious few euros they have on advertising, when their already one of the most hyped games in their genre. It's as simple as that, Darkfall didn't do mainstream flashy add - advertising, and still is getting alot of attention.

If you wan't to sell a Shamwow, advertise with flashy pictures to your hearts content, if you want to sell a MMO, sell it with information.

and no, flashy adds to not make me want to look into a game at all. every MMO I've looked into has been from word of mouth.

edit: Since you don't understand how the rating system on this site works (YOU MUST HAVE JOINED HERE JUST TO TROLL DARKFALL~!!!~~1) I'll provide some insight.

the .2 darkfall is ahead of the other games, is actually quite significant because of the amount of votes that already went into these games hype. It's been at top for over a month now , only going under from games momentarily that have only a few hundred votes (for the most part), which then settle back down to their respective areas when the rest of the community here casts their hype. Not that I see this is a relevent enough point for you to bother  trying to discredit, but I figured I mightaswell teach you something well your here.

Originally posted by behindtheed

Aside from it being an ad hominem attack that gives no credibility to your statement, you are in no position to tell anyone they "need to give up on life asap."

 

You might want to understand the meaning of what you preach before you preach it.

Me saying he needs to "give  up on life asap", be it stupid, was emphazising that I don't agree with his point. Which is not the same as bringing up something about him thats unrelated to the actual argument, to attract attention away from the facts.

 

Actually I do know what ad hominem means (I'm not in the habit of using terms I'm not familiar with).

Basically: To attack the person making a statement rather than the statement itself.

Yours is not a well-reasoned nor well-argued response. You are not arguing the point being made, you are taking a jab at the person making it. "You need to give up on life asap" isn't exactly equal to "I disagree and here's why".

Nice try, though :)

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by behindtheed

Aside from it being an ad hominem attack that gives no credibility to your statement, you are in no position to tell anyone they "need to give up on life asap."

 

You might want to understand the meaning of what you preach before you preach it.

Me saying he needs to "give  up on life asap", be it stupid, was emphazising that I don't agree with his point. Which is not the same as bringing up something about him thats unrelated to the actual argument, to attract attention away from the facts.

 

Actually I do know what ad hominem means (I'm not in the habit of using terms I'm not familiar with).

Basically: To attack the person making a statement rather than the statement itself.

Yours is not a well-reasoned nor well-argued response. You are not arguing the point being made, you are taking a jab at the person making it. "You need to give up on life asap" isn't exactly equal to "I disagree and here's why".

Nice try, though :)

 

I disagree when you say this , in any respect takes away from the validity of my argument. Because it was in fact used to emphazise my point. not for example say "this guy thinks neon purple is a good colour LOL! there for his opinion about Darkfalls advertising methods is wrong."

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by behindtheed

Aside from it being an ad hominem attack that gives no credibility to your statement, you are in no position to tell anyone they "need to give up on life asap."

 

You might want to understand the meaning of what you preach before you preach it.

Me saying he needs to "give  up on life asap", be it stupid, was emphazising that I don't agree with his point. Which is not the same as bringing up something about him thats unrelated to the actual argument, to attract attention away from the facts.

 

Actually I do know what ad hominem means (I'm not in the habit of using terms I'm not familiar with).

Basically: To attack the person making a statement rather than the statement itself.

Yours is not a well-reasoned nor well-argued response. You are not arguing the point being made, you are taking a jab at the person making it. "You need to give up on life asap" isn't exactly equal to "I disagree and here's why".

Nice try, though :)

 

Regardless, I would like to hear why you want Darkfall to pour money into an already hyped game pre it's release, when it's limited on funds.

Also, assuming you agree with the point the guy before me said, why would you not play a highly anticpiated game because it hasn't poured money into advertising?

Originally posted by behindtheed
 

 

firstly, raving DF fan? wtf? I say it's one of the most discussed upcomming MMOs (if not most) out there, so that  makes me a fanboy?

Not on its own, no. However, together with the lengths you go and leaps of logic (ie. word of mouth works better than advertising) you take to defend it? Absolutely.

I don't understand why you wouldn't play a game because they didn't blow the precious few euros they have on advertising, when their already one of the most hyped games in their genre. It's as simple as that, Darkfall didn't do mainstream flashy add - advertising, and still is getting alot of attention.

If you wan't to sell a Shamwow, advertise with flashy pictures to your hearts content, if you want to sell a MMO, sell it with information.

Do you have stats to back that up? I mean, real physical stats gathered from detailed research across numerous MMOs? Or, are you simply throwing it out because it happens to fit your umm.. "point of view"?

I can point to plenty of resources that explain and teach why advertising works. There are entire courses for it. There are entire books that teach it. A quick google search would probably bring back plenty of results.

I've seen an awful lot of people in my travels who will pick up a MMO box from a stand-up display, having never heard of it, or even knowing it's a MMO. They make an on the spot decision to buy it based entirely off the display art, screenshots, and the highlights listed on the back. They're not going off of "word of mouth". I know of others who will take a box off the shelf and say "I saw an ad for this game in PC gamer and it looks really cool". That's not word of mouth either.

Does some word of mouth help? Sure. Do interviews and articles help? Of course, for those who take the time to read them. But it still does not reach as many people as quickly as a quarter, half or full-page ad in a magazine, or on a website can.

We forum dwellers who discuss MMOs all day are not representative of the majority of people who buy games, much as some of us might like to think so.

and no, flashy adds to not make me want to look into a game at all. every MMO I've looked into has been from word of mouth.

Okay, that's you. But again, you're failing to remove yourself from the equation and are, instead, making an entire argument out of your own personal experience as though it applies to everyone.

I guess it was harder for you to remove yourself from the situation and look at it objectively than I realized it would be.

Either that or you're simply still ignoring the point; being "willfully ignorant", as it were.

I'll bet it's the latter.

edit: Since you don't understand how the rating system on this site works (YOU MUST HAVE JOINED HERE JUST TO TROLL DARKFALL~!!!~~1) I'll provide some insight.

the .2 darkfall is ahead of the other games, is actually quite significant because of the amount of votes that already went into these games hype. It's been at top for over a month now , only going under from games momentarily that have only a few hundred votes (for the most part), which then settle back down to their respective areas when the rest of the community here casts their hype. Not that I see this is a relevent enough point for you to bother  trying to discredit, but I figured I mightaswell teach you something well your here.

Umm.. I do understand "how it works".

I simply am satisfied with the score I see listed.

I also understand that no matter the number of votes, the number I see, "8.4", is an average derived from all votes, not only the positive ones. I don't feel the need to split hairs, and break it down. 8.4 is the number I'm given, and it's sufficient for me.

It's worth nothing that I also don't give them that much credibility, as it's pretty much common knowledge that those ratings are artificially inflated/deflated.

But then again, I'm passively curious about DF, not a raving die-hard fan of it who will go to any length or take any leap of logic - or illogic - to defend it. So maybe that's the difference.

Here's a question. Which do you think is the more likely scenario:

A) That people come here, look at the hype ratings (for those who do at all), see 8.4 and then say "oh no.. that can't be right.. one of them *must* be a higher 8.4 than the others" and then commit to "digging deeper"?

B) Or, that they see 8.4 and figure "these games are all equally hyped..." and go on that?

Now, I realize by now that your unflinching loyalty to DF makes improbable, if not impossible, but try to answer that objectively... and please explain why you chose your answer, again, objectively.

That said...

I do find it amusing, actually, that you dig as deep as you did to prove - to the "decimal point" (figuratively speaking) - that DF is the most hyped. It speaks volumes of your loyalty to it. I simply can't relate to that degree of fanaticism... even for a game I *am* a huge fan of.

Oh wait, that's right... that's because I don't understand how the rating system works. Right.

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by behindtheed

 

yeah tell that to all the other games right under Darkfall on the hype list.

You mean the games right under, Darkfall, and Aion and Jumpgate Evolution, and Runes of Magic and Star Wars: Old Republic, and Stargate Worlds and Chronicles of Spellborn? Those all have a 8.4 rating, as of my time posting this.

See? I can look at the hype ratings, too... Only I don't have selective eyesight when I do it.

This is why there are 7 MMOs at "8.4" on the hype scale, with several more at "8.3", right behind them. Because a whole bunch of people are following those games, too.

Are you seriously telling me that seeing that  elephant hit a guy in the face over and over in that annoying animated AoC add makes you want to check out the game? Obviously darkfall is doing a successful job at spreading word of it's game, so I don't see what your problem is.

I see.

So you're saying that, basically, all these other companies are just throwing money away advertising their games...  All they really need is a particularly loyal and vocal fanbase who can hype up a game that has yet to be released, and they'd get more eyeballs than those who actually put up full-color and/or animated ads?

Am I understanding you correctly? I mean, I don't want to be accused of putting words in your mouth. Before I tell you to quit whatever it is you're smoking, I want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly.

Of course I'm being facetious in that last paragraph.

But, I'll play along and put it in very simple terms:

In order to do so, I need you to forget for a moment that you're a raving DF fan who's entire reason for coming to this site may well be to follow that game. Put yourselves in the shoes of some other random visitor to the site who, perhaps, is following another game; or otherwise, just isn't familiar with DF at all or isn't as interested in it as you are.

I know it's difficult, but try... because that's really the key thing I think you're missing here.

You come here and immediately see colorful ads of varying size and shape for games you are, perhaps, only remotely aware of. Even more, some of them are animated.

Do you seriously believe you're going to notice a text link to an article about a game you (again, in this scenario) are not even necessarily aware of *before* you notice those bright, colorful ads?

Now be honest... remember, forget you're a DF Fan and resist the urge to say "yes I would because DF is the shiznit and makes all those look ridiculous".

Advertising is meant to get more eyeballs on a product that might otherwise not be seen. This is why the price of advertisement goes up based on the amount of page space or placement. Because the larger or more readily an ad is seen, the more likely it is to get a response.

We're talking basic Advertising here... This isn't some obscure, unproven theory. Companies pay good money for advertising... because it *works*.

Word-of-mouth and interviews and articles to help to spread the info... But not as well nor as quickly. DF may well do well enough with word-of-mouth alone.. I won't argue otherwise because I don't know what will happen when it's actually released. Only time will tell on that.

However, to make an argument that word-of-mouth is at least as good as paid advertising in getting a product in front of people's eyeballs is beyond ignorant.

 

 

 

firstly, raving DF fan? wtf? I say it's one of the most discussed upcomming MMOs (if not most) out there, so that  makes me a fanboy?

I don't understand why you wouldn't play a game because they didn't blow the precious few euros they have on advertising, when their already one of the most hyped games in their genre. It's as simple as that, Darkfall didn't do mainstream flashy add - advertising, and still is getting alot of attention.

If you wan't to sell a Shamwow, advertise with flashy pictures to your hearts content, if you want to sell a MMO, sell it with information.

Do you have stats to back that up? I mean, real physical stats gathered from detailed research across numerous MMOs? Or, are you simply throwing it out because it happens to fit your umm.. "point of view"?

and no, flashy adds to not make me want to look into a game at all. every MMO I've looked into has been from word of mouth.

Not you, personally, perhaps. But again, you're failing to remove yourself from the equation and are, instead, making an entire argument out of your own personal experience.

I guess it was harder for you to remove yourself from the situation and look at it objectively than I realized it would be.

Either that or you're simply still ignoring the point; being "willfully ignorant", as it were.

I'll bet it's the latter.

edit: Since you don't understand how the rating system on this site works (YOU MUST HAVE JOINED HERE JUST TO TROLL DARKFALL~!!!~~1) I'll provide some insight.

the .2 darkfall is ahead of the other games, is actually quite significant because of the amount of votes that already went into these games hype. It's been at top for over a month now , only going under from games momentarily that have only a few hundred votes (for the most part), which then settle back down to their respective areas when the rest of the community here casts their hype. Not that I see this is a relevent enough point for you to bother  trying to discredit, but I figured I mightaswell teach you something well your here.

Umm.. I do understand "how it works".

I simply am satisfied with the score I see listed.

I also understand that no matter the number of votes, the number I see, "8.4", is an average derived from all votes, not only the positive ones. I don't feel the need to split hairs, and break it down. 8.4 is the number I'm given, and it's sufficient for me.

It's worth nothing that I also don't give them that much credibility, as it's pretty much common knowledge that those ratings are artificially inflated/deflated.

But then again, I'm passively curious about DF, not a raving die-hard fan of it who will go to any length or take any leap of logic - or illogic - to defend it. So maybe that's the difference.

Here's a question. Which do you think is the more likely scenario:

A) That people come here, look at the hype ratings (for those who do at all), see 8.4 and then say "oh no.. that can't be right.. one of them *must* be a higher 8.4 than the others" and then commit to "digging deeper"?

B) Or, that they see 8.4 and figure "these games are all equally hyped..." and go on that?

Now, I realize by now that your unflinching loyalty to DF makes improbable, if not impossible, but try to answer that objectively... and please explain why you chose your answer, again, objectively.

That said...

I do find it amusing, actually, that you dig as deep as you did to prove - to the "decimal point" (figuratively speaking) - that DF is the most hyped. It speaks volumes of your loyalty to it. I simply can't relate to that degree of fanaticism... even for a game I *am* a huge fan of.

Oh wait, that's right... that's because I don't understand how the rating system works. Right.

 

you asked me ..personally if the adds make me want to check out the game..and that's why I answered on a personal level if they did. Stop being such a hypocrite , I answered your question and you still find a reason to pick it apart based on nothing?

If by digging a little deeper to see what game is on top of the hype meter, you mean look to the right  after I type in "www.mmorpg.com" and see the game in big letters at the top of a list that says DARKFALL 8.42. then yeah, I guess I worked pretty hard to find that out.

I'm obviously not going to say that advertising isn't a good thing - it's one of the biggest industries out there - but I will say for a fact that Darkfall is doing fine without it, and they are on a limited budget. I'd rather they make a good game and worry about advertising later, then make a buggy unfinished game that had alot of ads.

Ads attract attention of the general public, but there's no point in attracting attention to a game that isn't good. In the end if I had to choose good game, or good advertisments? I'm pretty sure I'd choose the game, as would you I'm sure.

Advertising helps, but it isn't as important as you seem to think to make a game popular. the numbers speak for itself, darkfall has a big following of fans, of haters, and of onlookers - all of which is a sign of a well known game.

edit: I find it odd how you had a little rant about attacking someone personally, and now you keep refering to my apparent unflinching loyalty to a game, when all I'm say is it doesn't need to pour money it doesn't have into advertisment at this point.

Ignorance is bliss, keep making assumptions.

Originally posted by behindtheed

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by behindtheed

 

yeah tell that to all the other games right under Darkfall on the hype list.

You mean the games right under, Darkfall, and Aion and Jumpgate Evolution, and Runes of Magic and Star Wars: Old Republic, and Stargate Worlds and Chronicles of Spellborn? Those all have a 8.4 rating, as of my time posting this.

See? I can look at the hype ratings, too... Only I don't have selective eyesight when I do it.

This is why there are 7 MMOs at "8.4" on the hype scale, with several more at "8.3", right behind them. Because a whole bunch of people are following those games, too.

Are you seriously telling me that seeing that  elephant hit a guy in the face over and over in that annoying animated AoC add makes you want to check out the game? Obviously darkfall is doing a successful job at spreading word of it's game, so I don't see what your problem is.

I see.

So you're saying that, basically, all these other companies are just throwing money away advertising their games...  All they really need is a particularly loyal and vocal fanbase who can hype up a game that has yet to be released, and they'd get more eyeballs than those who actually put up full-color and/or animated ads?

Am I understanding you correctly? I mean, I don't want to be accused of putting words in your mouth. Before I tell you to quit whatever it is you're smoking, I want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly.

Of course I'm being facetious in that last paragraph.

But, I'll play along and put it in very simple terms:

In order to do so, I need you to forget for a moment that you're a raving DF fan who's entire reason for coming to this site may well be to follow that game. Put yourselves in the shoes of some other random visitor to the site who, perhaps, is following another game; or otherwise, just isn't familiar with DF at all or isn't as interested in it as you are.

I know it's difficult, but try... because that's really the key thing I think you're missing here.

You come here and immediately see colorful ads of varying size and shape for games you are, perhaps, only remotely aware of. Even more, some of them are animated.

Do you seriously believe you're going to notice a text link to an article about a game you (again, in this scenario) are not even necessarily aware of *before* you notice those bright, colorful ads?

Now be honest... remember, forget you're a DF Fan and resist the urge to say "yes I would because DF is the shiznit and makes all those look ridiculous".

Advertising is meant to get more eyeballs on a product that might otherwise not be seen. This is why the price of advertisement goes up based on the amount of page space or placement. Because the larger or more readily an ad is seen, the more likely it is to get a response.

We're talking basic Advertising here... This isn't some obscure, unproven theory. Companies pay good money for advertising... because it *works*.

Word-of-mouth and interviews and articles to help to spread the info... But not as well nor as quickly. DF may well do well enough with word-of-mouth alone.. I won't argue otherwise because I don't know what will happen when it's actually released. Only time will tell on that.

However, to make an argument that word-of-mouth is at least as good as paid advertising in getting a product in front of people's eyeballs is beyond ignorant.

 

 

 

firstly, raving DF fan? wtf? I say it's one of the most discussed upcomming MMOs (if not most) out there, so that  makes me a fanboy?

I don't understand why you wouldn't play a game because they didn't blow the precious few euros they have on advertising, when their already one of the most hyped games in their genre. It's as simple as that, Darkfall didn't do mainstream flashy add - advertising, and still is getting alot of attention.

If you wan't to sell a Shamwow, advertise with flashy pictures to your hearts content, if you want to sell a MMO, sell it with information.

Do you have stats to back that up? I mean, real physical stats gathered from detailed research across numerous MMOs? Or, are you simply throwing it out because it happens to fit your umm.. "point of view"?

and no, flashy adds to not make me want to look into a game at all. every MMO I've looked into has been from word of mouth.

Not you, personally, perhaps. But again, you're failing to remove yourself from the equation and are, instead, making an entire argument out of your own personal experience.

I guess it was harder for you to remove yourself from the situation and look at it objectively than I realized it would be.

Either that or you're simply still ignoring the point; being "willfully ignorant", as it were.

I'll bet it's the latter.

edit: Since you don't understand how the rating system on this site works (YOU MUST HAVE JOINED HERE JUST TO TROLL DARKFALL~!!!~~1) I'll provide some insight.

the .2 darkfall is ahead of the other games, is actually quite significant because of the amount of votes that already went into these games hype. It's been at top for over a month now , only going under from games momentarily that have only a few hundred votes (for the most part), which then settle back down to their respective areas when the rest of the community here casts their hype. Not that I see this is a relevent enough point for you to bother  trying to discredit, but I figured I mightaswell teach you something well your here.

Umm.. I do understand "how it works".

I simply am satisfied with the score I see listed.

I also understand that no matter the number of votes, the number I see, "8.4", is an average derived from all votes, not only the positive ones. I don't feel the need to split hairs, and break it down. 8.4 is the number I'm given, and it's sufficient for me.

It's worth nothing that I also don't give them that much credibility, as it's pretty much common knowledge that those ratings are artificially inflated/deflated.

But then again, I'm passively curious about DF, not a raving die-hard fan of it who will go to any length or take any leap of logic - or illogic - to defend it. So maybe that's the difference.

Here's a question. Which do you think is the more likely scenario:

A) That people come here, look at the hype ratings (for those who do at all), see 8.4 and then say "oh no.. that can't be right.. one of them *must* be a higher 8.4 than the others" and then commit to "digging deeper"?

B) Or, that they see 8.4 and figure "these games are all equally hyped..." and go on that?

Now, I realize by now that your unflinching loyalty to DF makes improbable, if not impossible, but try to answer that objectively... and please explain why you chose your answer, again, objectively.

That said...

I do find it amusing, actually, that you dig as deep as you did to prove - to the "decimal point" (figuratively speaking) - that DF is the most hyped. It speaks volumes of your loyalty to it. I simply can't relate to that degree of fanaticism... even for a game I *am* a huge fan of.

Oh wait, that's right... that's because I don't understand how the rating system works. Right.

 

 

you asked me ..personally if the adds make me want to check out the game..and that's why I answered on a personal level if they did. Stop being such a hypocrite , I answered your question and you still find a reason to pick it apart based on nothing?

If by digging a little deeper to see what game is on top of the hype meter, you mean look to the right  after I type in "www.mmorpg.com" and see the game in big letters at the top of a list that says DARKFALL 8.42. then yeah, I guess I worked pretty hard to find that out.

I'm obviously not going to say that advertising isn't a good thing - it's one of the biggest industries out there - but I will say for a fact that Darkfall is doing fine without it, and they are on a limited budget. I'd rather they make a good game and worry about advertising later, then make a buggy unfinished game that had alot of ads.

Ads attract attention of the general public, but there's no point in attracting attention to a game that isn't good. In the end if I had to choose good game, or good advertisments? I'm pretty sure I'd choose the game, as would you I'm sure.

Advertising helps, but it isn't as important as you seem to think to make a game popular. the numbers speak for itself, darkfall has a big following of fans, of haters, and of onlookers - all of which is a sign of a well known game.

 

edit: I find it odd how you had a little rant about attacking someone personally, and now you keep refering to my apparent unflinching loyalty to a game, when all I'm say is it doesn't need to pour money it doesn't have into advertisment at this point.

Ignorance is bliss, keep making assumptions.

Like the one that assumes this game will release as promised after 8 years in January? All praise the great machine our BoTs tell us the game is fine!

Bots is the game fine? 

"Yes master no flaws found" --Only possible answer due to uber leet programming Hubris...

Like the one that assumes this game will release as promised after 8 years in January? All praise the great machine our BoTs tell us the game is fine!

 

Bots is the game fine? 

"Yes master no flaws found" --Only possible answer due to uber leet programming Hubris...

I don't get it.

..at all.

:(

Originally posted by behindtheed

Like the one that assumes this game will release as promised after 8 years in January? All praise the great machine our BoTs tell us the game is fine!

 

Bots is the game fine? 

"Yes master no flaws found" --Only possible answer due to uber leet programming Hubris...

 

I don't get it.

 

..at all.

 

:(

Pretty much all the bug testing that has been done, was done with AI scripted NPC's (bots)

Originally posted by gan3f

Originally posted by behindtheed

Like the one that assumes this game will release as promised after 8 years in January? All praise the great machine our BoTs tell us the game is fine!

 

Bots is the game fine? 

"Yes master no flaws found" --Only possible answer due to uber leet programming Hubris...

 

I don't get it.

 

..at all.

 

:(

 

Pretty much all the bug testing that has been done, was done with AI scripted NPC's (bots)

Not true from what I've read. The darkfall staff mentioned they'ld done extensive internal beta testing with some hired people - but I've never seen anything mentioning using bots to find bugs ><.

 link please?

Originally posted by behindtheed

 

you asked me ..personally if the adds make me want to check out the game..and that's why I answered on a personal level if they did. Stop being such a hypocrite , I answered your question and you still find a reason to pick it apart based on nothing?

Actually.. I asked you to remove yourself from the equation and look at it from the perspective of someone who comes here not knowing anything of DF.

I didn't ask "which would most interest you?"  I asked, which would you notice first.... bright colorful ads, or a text link to an article or an advertisement for a game you weren't actively interested in.

The context of the question, since you seem to have either missed it or forgotten already, is which form of advertising gets people's attention... that is, more eyeballs looking at it - more quickly.. a text link to an article, or large, colorful, flashy images.

What ends up getting someone interested to look into it further is up to the individual and is subjective.. which is why I asked you to remove yourself from the equation.

Sorry.. I'll try not to ask so much of you next time. :-p

If by digging a little deeper to see what game is on top of the hype meter, you mean look to the right  after I type in "www.mmorpg.com" and see the game in big letters at the top of a list that says DARKFALL 8.42. then yeah, I guess I worked pretty hard to find that out.

Ah, see I look at the drop-down list at the top-right... which all have all the games rounded up to 8.4. Apparently MMORPG.com's own rating system isn't consistent from one spot to another.

Point taken. DF is more hyped.

I'm obviously not going to say that advertising isn't a good thing - it's one of the biggest industries out there - but I will say for a fact that Darkfall is doing fine without it, and they are on a limited budget.

It's getting a lot of hype without it... which is meaningful to those who come to this site, see that rating and put any value in it.

There's the saying that "negative hype is still hype". Sounds a bit like "negative attention is still attention". Except that negative hype likely doesn't translate into box sales, which are what matter at the end of the day... not how many people gave it a 10, versus a 0 on a MMO website.

Speaking for myself... I couldn't care less what the hype meter says about a game, especially knowing how it's manipulated and abused. If I'm personally interested in a game, it could have a 6.0 and I'd still check it out. If I'm not interested, a 9.0 won't change my mind. But that's just me.

In all, a hype meter and "word-of-mouth" are great... if you're one of the people paying attention to them, much less seeing them in the first place.

That said, how well DF does "on word of mouth alone" remains to be seen.

I'd rather they make a good game and worry about advertising later, then make a buggy unfinished game that had alot of ads.

That's an odd statement.

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

A great game with a low, if any, advertising budget is potentially a great game that relatively few may ever know about.

A crappy game with a great advertising budget is a crappy game that more people will know about.

You can have a great marketing campaign and a crappy game. Or a crappy marketing campaign for a great game...

Or any various combinations thereof.

Ads attract attention of the general public, but there's no point in attracting attention to a game that isn't good. In the end if I had to choose good game, or good advertisments? I'm pretty sure I'd choose the game, as would you I'm sure.

Again.. non-point as the two are not mutually exclusive.

I wouldn't call what Aventurine is doing a "solid alternative" to traditional advertisement. I see it as them making the best of what they have.

I'd say it's a gamble. They're banking on getting and keeping enough people to sustain the game from launch and to maintain, if not build, a healthy population from there.

Also, given the number of MMOs they're competing against (both upcoming and current), and the  unforgivingly finicky nature of MMO gamers who seldom give a game more than one chance, they've got an uphill battle.

They're banking on "word-of-mouth" in an environment that is very hostile toward MMOs. I'm sure you'd agree these forums alone are not the most hospitable place to be a fan of any given game.

In short, what Aventurine is taking is a long-shot. If they succeed then believe me, I would be the first to give them kudos (well, not the "first" necessarily)... I have nothing against the game or the company (though I do question some of things they've said and done - but I do that with SE and FFXI as well, and I play that game).

I don't want the game to "fail".

I simply read forum threads and when something jumps out that seems a bit off, or far-fetched to me, I comment on it. It's really no reflection on my opinion of the game itself.

I simply think some people are trying to prop up the whole "word of mouth only with no paid advertisement" as some kind of wise and fortuitous move on Aventurine's part. Some seem to frame it as though traditional advertising is a "bad thing" in defense of Aventurine's decision not to use it. And I think that's a bit naive.

Advertising helps, but it isn't as important as you seem to think to make a game popular. the numbers speak for itself, darkfall has a big following of fans, of haters, and of onlookers - all of which is a sign of a well known game.

Yes, on this forum and perhaps on others, for those who follow the forums and those they talk to about it.

And again, that may well be enough people to support and sustain the game out of the gate and into the long-term.

And again, that's a gamble that Aventurine is taking.

What happens when the game doesn't live up to the expectations (for one reason or another) of any number of that already limited following? And I think one could safely say that will happen... It happens with every MMO. People will play it, find it's not what they expected, and quit.

This is why a lot of hype is a double-edged blade to me. Sure it's great to get the game attention. But many times that hype is elevated way higher than the game can ever live up to, at least on a personal level. Then some players feel "let down" or "scammed". Those who were the most loyal can often become the most bitter and hostile (see AoC for examples)

Would the remaining players be enough to keep it afloat? Again, only time will tell.

edit: I find it odd how you had a little rant about attacking someone personally, and now you keep refering to my apparent unflinching loyalty to a game, when all I'm say is it doesn't need to pour money it doesn't have into advertisment at this point.

Me addressing your unflinching loyalty to a game isn't a personal attack. It's an observation of the tone of your comments. The whole "rose colored glasses" thing.

As was my statement that you can't seem to remove yourself from the situation enough to look at it objectively. Your replies to my statements have illustrated that.

If I'd come out and said "you're too stupid to know what I'm talking about", then yes.. I'm taking pot-shots.

It would be like the difference between telling someone they're acting like an idiot, and telling them that they are an idiot. In one case you're defining the behavior, in the other you're defining the person.

There is a difference.

That said, if anything I've said has come across as a blatant insult, my apologies and that wasn't my intent. I was certainly poking fun at some of what you've said (we're human... we're bound to say silly things from time to time), but none of it was intended to insult you personally.

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by behindtheed

 

you asked me ..personally if the adds make me want to check out the game..and that's why I answered on a personal level if they did. Stop being such a hypocrite , I answered your question and you still find a reason to pick it apart based on nothing?

Actually.. I asked you to remove yourself from the equation and look at it from the perspective of someone who comes here not knowing anything of DF.

I didn't ask "which would most interest you?"  I asked, which would you notice first.... bright colorful ads, or a text link to an article or an advertisement for a game you weren't actively interested in.

The context of the question, since you seem to have either missed it or forgotten already, is which form of advertising gets people's attention... that is, more eyeballs looking at it - more quickly.. a text link to an article, or large, colorful, flashy images.

What ends up getting someone interested to look into it further is up to the individual and is subjective.. which is why I asked you to remove yourself from the equation.

Sorry.. I'll try not to ask so much of you next time. :-p

If by digging a little deeper to see what game is on top of the hype meter, you mean look to the right  after I type in "www.mmorpg.com" and see the game in big letters at the top of a list that says DARKFALL 8.42. then yeah, I guess I worked pretty hard to find that out.

Ah, see I look at the drop-down list at the top-right... which all have all the games rounded up to 8.4. Apparently MMORPG.com's own rating system isn't consistent from one spot to another.

Point taken. DF is more hyped.

I'm obviously not going to say that advertising isn't a good thing - it's one of the biggest industries out there - but I will say for a fact that Darkfall is doing fine without it, and they are on a limited budget.

It's getting a lot of hype without it... which is meaningful to those who come to this site, see that rating and put any value in it.

There's the saying that "negative hype is still hype". Sounds a bit like "negative attention is still attention". Except that negative hype likely doesn't translate into box sales, which are what matter at the end of the day... not how many people gave it a 10, versus a 0 on a MMO website.

Speaking for myself... I couldn't care less what the hype meter says about a game, especially knowing how it's manipulated and abused. If I'm personally interested in a game, it could have a 6.0 and I'd still check it out. If I'm not interested, a 9.0 won't change my mind. But that's just me.

In all, a hype meter and "word-of-mouth" are great... if you're one of the people paying attention to them, much less seeing them in the first place.

That said, how well DF does "on word of mouth alone" remains to be seen.

I'd rather they make a good game and worry about advertising later, then make a buggy unfinished game that had alot of ads.

That's an odd statement.

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

A great game with a low, if any, advertising budget is potentially a great game that relatively few may ever know about.

A crappy game with a great advertising budget is a crappy game that more people will know about.

You can have a great marketing campaign and a crappy game. Or a crappy marketing campaign for a great game...

Or any various combinations thereof.

Ads attract attention of the general public, but there's no point in attracting attention to a game that isn't good. In the end if I had to choose good game, or good advertisments? I'm pretty sure I'd choose the game, as would you I'm sure.

Again.. non-point as the two are not mutually exclusive.

I wouldn't call what Aventurine is doing a "solid alternative" to traditional advertisement. I see it as them making the best of what they have.

I'd say it's a gamble. They're banking on getting and keeping enough people to sustain the game from launch and to maintain, if not build, a healthy population from there.

Also, given the number of MMOs they're competing against (both upcoming and current), and the  unforgivingly finicky nature of MMO gamers who seldom give a game more than one chance, they've got an uphill battle.

They're banking on "word-of-mouth" in an environment that is very hostile toward MMOs. I'm sure you'd agree these forums alone are not the most hospitable place to be a fan of any given game.

In short, what Aventurine is taking is a long-shot. If they succeed then believe me, I would be the first to give them kudos (well, not the "first" necessarily)... I have nothing against the game or the company (though I do question some of things they've said and done - but I do that with SE and FFXI as well, and I play that game).

I don't want the game to "fail".

I simply read forum threads and when something jumps out that seems a bit off, or far-fetched to me, I comment on it. It's really no reflection on my opinion of the game itself.

I simply think some people are trying to prop up the whole "word of mouth only with no paid advertisement" as some kind of wise and fortuitous move on Aventurine's part. Some seem to frame it as though traditional advertising is a "bad thing" in defense of Aventurine's decision not to use it. And I think that's a bit naive.

Advertising helps, but it isn't as important as you seem to think to make a game popular. the numbers speak for itself, darkfall has a big following of fans, of haters, and of onlookers - all of which is a sign of a well known game.

Yes, on this forum and perhaps on others.

And again, that may well be enough people to support and sustain the game out of the gate and into the long-term.

And again, that's a gamble that Aventurine is taking.

What happens when the game doesn't live up to the expectations (for one reason or another) of any number of that already limited following? And I think one could safely say that will happen... It happens with every MMO. People will play it, find it's not what they expected, and quit.

edit: I find it odd how you had a little rant about attacking someone personally, and now you keep refering to my apparent unflinching loyalty to a game, when all I'm say is it doesn't need to pour money it doesn't have into advertisment at this point.

Me addressing your unflinching loyalty to a game isn't a personal attack. It's an observation of the tone of your comments. The whole "rose colored glasses" thing.

As was my statement that you can't seem to remove yourself from the situation enough to look at it objectively. Your replies to my statements have illustrated that.

If I'd come out and said "you're too stupid to know what I'm talking about", then yes.. I'm taking pot-shots.

It would be like the difference between someone's acting like an idiot, and telling them that they are an idiot. In one case you're defining the behavior, in the other you're defining the person.

There is a difference.

That said, if anything I've said has come across as a blatant insult, my apologies and that wasn't my intent. I was certainly poking fun at some of what you've said (we're human... we're bound to say silly things from time to time), but none of it was intended to insult you personally.

 

You assume when I say the game is one of the most anticipiated mmo's out there, I'm talking about the populairty on this site alone. I'm not, Darkfalls forums has something around 270 thousand members - every game I've played in the past 3 months has had people talking about darkfall on it. I wouldn't call it a gamble to assume their going to get enough people to get a solid start.

I disagree with you when you say Darkfall is taking a risk, and their method of advertising (or lack of) hasn't turned out as a solid alternative to traditional over-hyping of games. As mentioned before, there is alot of people following this game, and I doubt you can honestly say most of the people who are interested in the MMO genre hasn't heard about Darkfall yet. So to me, if it works, I'd consider it solid.

And I honestly don't know why you think my apparent tone of posts implies I'm a blind Darkfall fanboy, when I've said nothing to even endorse the game aside from what I think of their marketing stratagy, and how it's turned out. Seems it's impossible to disagree with someone on forums these days without them yelling "troll!" or "fanboy!".

Your labeling me a fanboy because I disagree with your point, there's been nothing I've said to imply  I even believe Darkfall is going to pull off what they've promised (I have my doubts). how I feel about the game is I like the promised features - I havn't seen darkfalls devs remove anything without a reason I agree on, and I'm looking forward to the industry straying from the WoW style-mmos, or at least making the attempt as Darkfall is doing.

but of course if I'm to go by your logic, you seem to be bashing what appears to be a successful marketing campaign from darkfall, for no apparent reason aside from the fact it isn't status quo. there for you must be an ignorant troll?

You can go right ahead with this name calling contest, maybe we can compare e-peen sizes later, but it really doesn't back up your claim that darkfall hasn't been getting alot of hype across the MMO community.

Finally,  how negative hype may be a good thing - in terms of games in development, any negativity from a troll is going to be ignored, because frankly the "you havn't seen the game yet" argument prevails. And at the very least all the attention a troll brings to darkfall might get someone to look into the game, so they can form an opinion on it  - be it good or bad.