I've played every MMO under the sun about, but I've never made it past a day or so in the EVE trial because of the mega learning curve and the lethargy I feel when I think about how it seems like everyone would be so far ahead of me skill-tree wise.

Is it too late for someone to start in EVEN from scratch and enjoy themselves?

Any tips for a brand new player?

Random question: I remember hearing discussion of them adding actual player avatars for when you land in a starport or such, so you could actually walk around? Was this just grapevine trash or are they really talking about doing that? If so, when? (I thought it sounded neat. Never dug how you're only identity is a ship and a static mugshot)

Originally posted by anakinsella

I've played every MMO under the sun about, but I've never made it past a day or so in the EVE trial because of the mega learning curve and the lethargy I feel when I think about how it seems like everyone would be so far ahead of me skill-tree wise.

Is it too late for someone to start in EVEN from scratch and enjoy themselves?

Any tips for a brand new player?

 

Random question: I remember hearing discussion of them adding actual player avatars for when you land in a starport or such, so you could actually walk around? Was this just grapevine trash or are they really talking about doing that? If so, when? (I thought it sounded neat. Never dug how you're only identity is a ship and a static mugshot)

ambulation is what walking around in stations is called.  it's due next  year sometime, maybe, who knows when for certain, it keeps changing.

k, that was a rambling answer.

anywho.  check the stickie, i put a link to a thread by Akita T, which gives good information for making a new character.

if you start a new character in wow.  it takes a while to get to lvl 80, correct?  then it takes a while to grind reputation with the various factions (core game, tbc and wotlk expansions all have factions to grind reputation with) and then gold to buy various goodies.  time to grind all the way thru the ranks for fishing, cooking, first aid and whatever your two "real" crafting skills are.  takes a while to grind honor thru the BGs/arena.  takes a while to grind your way thru the various tiers of pve gear to get to the current quarter's latest & greatest gear... 

why does no one ever ask if it's too late to catch up to all of that?

same principle.  if it's not too late to start wow with all of THAT to grind thru in order to be competitive at the higher levels... then it's not too late to start eve.

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by anakinsella

I've played every MMO under the sun about, but I've never made it past a day or so in the EVE trial because of the mega learning curve and the lethargy I feel when I think about how it seems like everyone would be so far ahead of me skill-tree wise.

Is it too late for someone to start in EVEN from scratch and enjoy themselves?

Any tips for a brand new player?

 

Random question: I remember hearing discussion of them adding actual player avatars for when you land in a starport or such, so you could actually walk around? Was this just grapevine trash or are they really talking about doing that? If so, when? (I thought it sounded neat. Never dug how you're only identity is a ship and a static mugshot)

 

ambulation is what walking around in stations is called.  it's due next  year sometime, maybe, who knows when for certain, it keeps changing.

k, that was a rambling answer.

 

anywho.  check the stickie, i put a link to a thread by Akita T, which gives good information for making a new character.

if you start a new character in wow.  it takes a while to get to lvl 80, correct?  then it takes a while to grind reputation with the various factions (core game, tbc and wotlk expansions all have factions to grind reputation with) and then gold to buy various goodies.  time to grind all the way thru the ranks for fishing, cooking, first aid and whatever your two "real" crafting skills are.  takes a while to grind honor thru the BGs/arena.  takes a while to grind your way thru the various tiers of pve gear to get to the current quarter's latest & greatest gear... 

why does no one ever ask if it's too late to catch up to all of that?

 

same principle.  if it's not too late to start wow with all of THAT to grind thru in order to be competitive at the higher levels... then it's not too late to start eve.

Not the same at all. In level based MMOs, you have the option to either grind / powerlevel or through quest but in EvE, skill training is real time based and there is no shortcuts to accomplish it. All we "grind" is faction, agent standings to unlock the next level of agents etc..

With a little of understanding and determination to learn up EvE, its not difficult at all. All it requires, is patience, understanding, research and micro management.

Dont worry if its too late to start from scratch, do some reading or research in EvE official forum, or some resource site and start learning up the basics of EvE before starting your trial. Works for me as i am just like you, started fresh a week ago ;)

Originally posted by Midaveg

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by anakinsella

I've played every MMO under the sun about, but I've never made it past a day or so in the EVE trial because of the mega learning curve and the lethargy I feel when I think about how it seems like everyone would be so far ahead of me skill-tree wise.

Is it too late for someone to start in EVEN from scratch and enjoy themselves?

Any tips for a brand new player?

 

Random question: I remember hearing discussion of them adding actual player avatars for when you land in a starport or such, so you could actually walk around? Was this just grapevine trash or are they really talking about doing that? If so, when? (I thought it sounded neat. Never dug how you're only identity is a ship and a static mugshot)

 

ambulation is what walking around in stations is called.  it's due next  year sometime, maybe, who knows when for certain, it keeps changing.

k, that was a rambling answer.

 

anywho.  check the stickie, i put a link to a thread by Akita T, which gives good information for making a new character.

if you start a new character in wow.  it takes a while to get to lvl 80, correct?  then it takes a while to grind reputation with the various factions (core game, tbc and wotlk expansions all have factions to grind reputation with) and then gold to buy various goodies.  time to grind all the way thru the ranks for fishing, cooking, first aid and whatever your two "real" crafting skills are.  takes a while to grind honor thru the BGs/arena.  takes a while to grind your way thru the various tiers of pve gear to get to the current quarter's latest & greatest gear... 

why does no one ever ask if it's too late to catch up to all of that?

 

same principle.  if it's not too late to start wow with all of THAT to grind thru in order to be competitive at the higher levels... then it's not too late to start eve.

 

Not the same at all. In level based MMOs, you have the option to either grind / powerlevel or through quest but in EvE, skill training is real time based and there is no shortcuts to accomplish it. All we "grind" is faction, agent standings to unlock the next level of agents etc..

With a little of understanding and determination to learn up EvE, its not difficult at all. All it requires, is patience, understanding, research and micro management.

Dont worry if its too late to start from scratch, do some reading or research in EvE official forum, or some resource site and start learning up the basics of EvE before starting your trial. Works for me as i am just like you, started fresh a week ago ;)

so, you can powerlevel your way thru all the tiers of gear in wow?  i mean, you're able to run the same instance 50 times in no time flat?  only to repeat the next dungeon instance 50 times for the next tier of gear?

this is in addition to grinding endless hours in BGs and the arena... and let's not forget the faction reputations.  but i believe i mentioned all of this.

you can not just powerlevel thru all of that in no time flat.  it takes literal MONTHS, if you're playing 10+ hours a day even.  and then, every quarter, there will be a new tier of gear released in the next dungeon.

it's NOT the same in that you CAN powerlevel in wow, but you have to wait for X time to pass in eve. BUT, it's the same in that you're not going to be da uber whatever in a month, or two months, or three months.

where it does vary is that in eve, within a week or two, you can be engaged in fleet battles (the type of fleet battles that could be considered "end game"; vs you wouldn't be able to participate in an end game instance or pvp in wow, UNLESS you powerleveled thru to 80 in that week or so.

the point i'm getting at is that you're not going to be max level and gear in wow overnight and if you want all the best items, it's going to take a lot of time to get them.  yet, no one is ever asking if it's possible to catch up to the tier 35 gear in wow, are they?

how is that different then spending those same months in eve, not only gaining in character skill points; but also growing in player skill and wealth and friends/allies.  yet, in eve, we keep getting the "is it too late* questions.

I would guess not.... Heck I only just started, and after going through the tutorial, I have a fairly solid grasp on the basic mechanics. And I am really loving it. Good fun, and the fact that it is totally different to other MMOs makes it all the more sweeter. 

I guess it comes down to your goals.... Do you really want or expect to be seen as the greater player ever? If so, there are still the risks of getting destroyed and having to start lower again, with worse ships etc... You will still have fun and I can assume that later on in the low sec areas it won't be impossible with the right skill sets, the right people around you etc etc.  

Its NEVER 'too late' until they shut down the servers  Thats the only 'too late' you can get with MMOs (Or they are entirely empty)

Specialize your skills. Group with others - 3 newbiews > 4 year veteran. Unlike in WoW or other level based games - newbiew can allways kill veteran. Only differences between new player and old veteran are: old veteran have more money to buy good equipment and they can use wider selection of equipment and ships than newbiew. But it really doesn't help you, if you have skills to fly dreagnought billions of cash in wallet, when your current ship in fight is frigate against other frigates/cruisers.

Don't ever take ship to fight that you can't afford to lose. Find a good alliance or corporation for yourself. (Don't join to one those slave corporations where you are just mining ore for CEOs pockets.)

4 tips:

- dont go into 0.0 until your in a pvp corp and are doing an operation there, a lone guy in 0.0 is like a virgin 15 year old girl walking through the woods at night. Sure it might not get raped the first time it goes, but when she gets raped shes gonna get raped hard.

-fly a ship you can afford to loose. You will loose ships, its not a big deal as long as you dont rush into a megathon and start roaming lowsec

-do missions, until you have some experience in the game you dont stand a chance ratting

-check ou all the tutorials you can find on youtube and dailymotion, eve isnt jsut buttonsmashing

What the above posters said.

I'll just add that due to the way the skill system works everyone is noob as most things, even the people who've been playing since launch.  Certain core skills will affect every ship you fly but for the most part skilling into a new area means that you're back to square 1 until you achieve a reasonable level of competence.  Having money and knowing the game mechanics will help you far more than any amount of skillpoints will - it's the reason why vet's day-old alts do well out of the gate and people who think they can buy their way into uberness regularly turn up on the official forums complaining their highly skilled character in a hugely expensive ship got shot into ltitle bits 10 minutes into its maiden voyage.

Get into a good corp as quick as you can, it'll help things out a lot, don't be afraid of loss (it's a part of the game), and generally just try things out and see how you like them.

I was reading a thread on the Eve forums just yesterday where a 46 million SP character who did not focus his skills stated that he was being outperformed by relatively new characters that specialized. It’s never too late to start.

Another tip, don’t touch anything that isn’t yours, even if you don’t think anyone is around to see you do it.

EVE is a game where you not really behind. I quit EVE recently after 2 yrs, i may be regretting it soon. But i had 2 30m sp characters.

The last 20m sp I got on my PvP character was for him to fly other ships. It didn't make him better in PvP, it just made me able to fly other ships at a certain level. If you were to specialize. It would take you about 4-6 months to be as potent as my character or about 90% as potent as my 30m sp character as long as you specialized.

My other market character, in reality, only used a few of the skills i had trained. In EVE the more skills you train, in reality, the less useful they become, as you can only do 1 thing at a time. More skills means you can do more things but not at the same time. So if you specced in market, you specced the skills i relied on the most. Hauling + trading and production, it would take you 4 months to be as viable as my 30m sp character. Of course, you wouldn't have been able to fly a carrier, nor a rorqual, nor a hulk, nor would mining be viable for you. But it is fun nonetheless. As you progress in EVE, how powerful you are (minus capital ships) reaches an asymptotic line pretty quickly. I had 7m sp in gunnery on my pvp pilot, if you had 5m sp you'd be 80% as good if not 90%. Since, 1v1 pvp really doesn't exist, it actually doesn't matter :).

In-game currency rules EVE anyway.

Trust me, 4-6 months, and you'll be as potent as most others.

I'm trying to get a 21-day Trial. The game is so daunting though.

Thanks for the replies though.

Originally posted by anakinsella

I'm trying to get a 21-day Trial. The game is so daunting though.

Thanks for the replies though.

btw skills matter little in the bigger view of the world

for one, no one can have more than lvl 5 skills

also the vets dont necesarely have an advantage over a average player, the vet will have more skill points but there is only so much skill points you can put missiles. and if you are in a missile boat those hybrid turet skills are kind of useless.

also what good is 10 million skill points in mining and 1 million in missiles in a battlecruiser with 8 heavy missiles ? if you have 5 milion in missiles 5 million in shields... and a bit less in battlecruisers i think you would have the advantage.

yes there are many skills but one can;t use them all at once, so no, you wont catch up to the vets in number of skills points but by specializing in somehting you might come up to par/or better than him in certain areas. the only thing that the vet will be better than you is that he can have different specialities, which all can't be used at the same time.

Originally posted by Cryomatrix

EVE is a game where you not really behind. I quit EVE recently after 2 yrs, i may be regretting it soon. But i had 2 30m sp characters.

The last 20m sp I got on my PvP character was for him to fly other ships. It didn't make him better in PvP, it just made me able to fly other ships at a certain level. If you were to specialize. It would take you about 4-6 months to be as potent as my character or about 90% as potent as my 30m sp character as long as you specialized.

My other market character, in reality, only used a few of the skills i had trained. In EVE the more skills you train, in reality, the less useful they become, as you can only do 1 thing at a time. More skills means you can do more things but not at the same time. So if you specced in market, you specced the skills i relied on the most. Hauling + trading and production, it would take you 4 months to be as viable as my 30m sp character. Of course, you wouldn't have been able to fly a carrier, nor a rorqual, nor a hulk, nor would mining be viable for you. But it is fun nonetheless. As you progress in EVE, how powerful you are (minus capital ships) reaches an asymptotic line pretty quickly. I had 7m sp in gunnery on my pvp pilot, if you had 5m sp you'd be 80% as good if not 90%. Since, 1v1 pvp really doesn't exist, it actually doesn't matter :).

In-game currency rules EVE anyway.

Trust me, 4-6 months, and you'll be as potent as most others.

And this is why I would not recommend playing EVE - but it does depend on what you want to do in the game. In my opinion, the game shines in war between corporations and other smaller scale pvp. However, for this type of play, it is pretty evident that skills are very necessary as many pvp corporations have requirements on skill points. EVE is a great game and outfitting your ship and playing actually take a little knowledge of physics. Unfortunately, it takes too long to get yourself decent enough skills to be effective in pvp. I'd say that you could train to be a tackling cruiser relatively fast, but in reality pvp in 0.0 space requires a BC, BS, or t2 ship - all of which will take that 4-6 months to be adequately trained in (note, I did pvp in a cruiser, but you won't be doing much dmg to a BS). Note, to be able to kill pirates in 0.0 space you need to be at least moderately trained to fly a battlecruiser. As an aside, I think it would be very interesting if they started a new server and you could see the game develop from the beginning.

That all being said, if you're willing to do missions for one and half to three months (boring pve as found in any other game), train learning skills in the beginning (insanely boring - this option was only interesting when the game was new), and specialize to fly either cruisers or battlecruisers, I think you would be able find a decent pvp corp and have some fun. One problem is that it gets a bit boring to play the same role all the time - which is of course why people branch out and train other types of ships or weapons or modules.

Everyone has an oppinion about what a new person can do,  can't do,  should do,  will do,  won't do,   who flung doo ect...........

Look... Eve comes down to you carving out your own piece of the story at your own pace, under your own terms. Who cares what others have or don't have in skills or assets. What is important is where your personal journey takes you in Eve, not what others have done before you or will do after you are long gone.

Enjoy what you can do, and carve your own Eve Adventure.

If you want a 21 day trial, pm me with an email address and ill send you one.

Originally posted by skankyrart

And this is why I would not recommend playing EVE - but it does depend on what you want to do in the game. In my opinion, the game shines in war between corporations and other smaller scale pvp. However, for this type of play, it is pretty evident that skills are very necessary as many pvp corporations have requirements on skill points. EVE is a great game and outfitting your ship and playing actually take a little knowledge of physics. Unfortunately, it takes too long to get yourself decent enough skills to be effective in pvp. I'd say that you could train to be a tackling cruiser relatively fast, but in reality pvp in 0.0 space requires a BC, BS, or t2 ship - all of which will take that 4-6 months to be adequately trained in (note, I did pvp in a cruiser, but you won't be doing much dmg to a BS). Note, to be able to kill pirates in 0.0 space you need to be at least moderately trained to fly a battlecruiser. As an aside, I think it would be very interesting if they started a new server and you could see the game develop from the beginning.

That all being said, if you're willing to do missions for one and half to three months (boring pve as found in any other game), train learning skills in the beginning (insanely boring - this option was only interesting when the game was new), and specialize to fly either cruisers or battlecruisers, I think you would be able find a decent pvp corp and have some fun. One problem is that it gets a bit boring to play the same role all the time - which is of course why people branch out and train other types of ships or weapons or modules.

The problem is that new players come in with a I need to be doing 0.0 fleet combat to be doing pvp, hate to tell you but as a vet of multiple wars most 0.0 players don't like fleet combat. its a nessicary evil or owning 0.0 space. the reason that most corps want those skill points out in 0.0 is less for you need to be able to fly a certain ship type then the hope that you will at least know the basic of the game mechanics and will not have to be constantly cared for and corrected as you start to live out in 0.0. Many of the 0.0 alliances that I know will make exceptions to thier SP rule especially if they have someone that they respect that will vouch for your knowledge of the game.

If you would have read the sticky in the corp section of this forums you would have notice me explaining many of the common restrictions for recruitment into corps and alliances. A lot of players from other games tend to look at eve requirements in the view of a standard level based game such as each  million SP is a level or something.  Generally with about a month of skill training before wasting time on learnings you can get all of the skills to the point where you can survive and live in 0.0. The problem is getting you to understand all of the minute little tricks to keep your ass alive, that often takes far longer than that month.

For that find a low sec/high sec hybrid corp, allows you a safe way to earn money in most cases as well as in amny cases a way to get combat experience as well as fleet operations experience. By the time you have most of the stuff you can learn thier down you'll be all set with the SP  to move out to 0.0 as well as the far more important player skills that help you move around and live in effectively always hostile area.

Originally posted by skankyrart

Originally posted by Cryomatrix

EVE is a game where you not really behind. I quit EVE recently after 2 yrs, i may be regretting it soon. But i had 2 30m sp characters.

The last 20m sp I got on my PvP character was for him to fly other ships. It didn't make him better in PvP, it just made me able to fly other ships at a certain level. If you were to specialize. It would take you about 4-6 months to be as potent as my character or about 90% as potent as my 30m sp character as long as you specialized.

My other market character, in reality, only used a few of the skills i had trained. In EVE the more skills you train, in reality, the less useful they become, as you can only do 1 thing at a time. More skills means you can do more things but not at the same time. So if you specced in market, you specced the skills i relied on the most. Hauling + trading and production, it would take you 4 months to be as viable as my 30m sp character. Of course, you wouldn't have been able to fly a carrier, nor a rorqual, nor a hulk, nor would mining be viable for you. But it is fun nonetheless. As you progress in EVE, how powerful you are (minus capital ships) reaches an asymptotic line pretty quickly. I had 7m sp in gunnery on my pvp pilot, if you had 5m sp you'd be 80% as good if not 90%. Since, 1v1 pvp really doesn't exist, it actually doesn't matter :).

In-game currency rules EVE anyway.

Trust me, 4-6 months, and you'll be as potent as most others.

And this is why I would not recommend playing EVE - but it does depend on what you want to do in the game. In my opinion, the game shines in war between corporations and other smaller scale pvp. However, for this type of play, it is pretty evident that skills are very necessary as many pvp corporations have requirements on skill points. EVE is a great game and outfitting your ship and playing actually take a little knowledge of physics. Unfortunately, it takes too long to get yourself decent enough skills to be effective in pvp. I'd say that you could train to be a tackling cruiser relatively fast, but in reality pvp in 0.0 space requires a BC, BS, or t2 ship - all of which will take that 4-6 months to be adequately trained in (note, I did pvp in a cruiser, but you won't be doing much dmg to a BS). Note, to be able to kill pirates in 0.0 space you need to be at least moderately trained to fly a battlecruiser. As an aside, I think it would be very interesting if they started a new server and you could see the game develop from the beginning.

That all being said, if you're willing to do missions for one and half to three months (boring pve as found in any other game), train learning skills in the beginning (insanely boring - this option was only interesting when the game was new), and specialize to fly either cruisers or battlecruisers, I think you would be able find a decent pvp corp and have some fun. One problem is that it gets a bit boring to play the same role all the time - which is of course why people branch out and train other types of ships or weapons or modules.

and in any other MMORPG how long would it take you to reach the "gates of hell" (arbitrary name) end game?

treat the 0.0 space as hostile space that you should not go untill you actually have some experience playing the game. im sure you would not take a lvl 10 character to an end game dungeon would you?

like ive stated, there is only so many skill points someone can put into missiles and if your flying a missile boat your other 15 million sp in your hybrid turrets is kind of useless. andyour refining skills even more useless in pvp. so having skill points does not mean much, what actually means something is WHAT skills did you take.

so in 4-6 months (wich is a bit longer than most MMOGs) is a good timeframe to leanr the ways of the trade you choose to be, such as surviving in low sec, and/or surviving in nul sec.

and if you treat it like a single player game as in, im gonna be a solo pirate. you will fail. find a corp (not a pug) join it learn from it and in most cases the corp CEO will have much to do for you.

a merc corp will often go to war with other corps, just because they get payed to do so

pirate corps will gang up and take down big haulers with a bunch of stuff then scavange it. or if its not a corp even usually go around in groups(fleets) just stealing and plundering YARR

miner corpst... duh they mine, and usually hire anti-pirate corps to protect them

hauler corps the same.

Originally posted by Squal'Zell

and in any other MMORPG how long would it take you to reach the "gates of hell" (arbitrary name) end game?

treat the 0.0 space as hostile space that you should not go untill you actually have some experience playing the game. im sure you would not take a lvl 10 character to an end game dungeon would you?

I simply do not think it should require a minimum of two months to experience a LARGE part of the game content - pvp. And if you think you can pvp before then, you're absolutely dead wrong. The people pvping in low sec will outskill you, unless you happen across the other lone noob in the galaxy. Yes, you can try to gather up a few other noobs or join a noob corp, but even then you will need tackling skills and will still be at a severe disadvantage - it can provide some fun though but is ultimately disappointing. And high sec pvp is inane as it involves trying to get a noob to steal your loot or attack you such that you can ultimately attack him without being blown up by the police.

And anyway, taking WAR, for example, it takes about a month, give or take, for the average gamer to hit lvl 40 and acquire a decent amount of gear to get to the "end game" of t4 zone control, fortress sieges, and ultimately city sieges. But pvp shouldn't be "end game" content in EVE and as such it  shouldn't take 2 months to train up enough skills such that you stand somewhat of a chance out there.

Furthermore, I said that if he was fine taking 2 months to do missions, learn the basics of the game, make some cash, etc... then he should go for it. And even more, I pointed out that this was only if he was really interested in pvp. If he wanted to missions, then obviously you can start playing that part of the game immediately.

Originally posted by Nicoli

The problem is that new players come in with a I need to be doing 0.0 fleet combat to be doing pvp, hate to tell you but as a vet of multiple wars most 0.0 players don't like fleet combat. its a nessicary evil or owning 0.0 space. the reason that most corps want those skill points out in 0.0 is less for you need to be able to fly a certain ship type then the hope that you will at least know the basic of the game mechanics and will not have to be constantly cared for and corrected as you start to live out in 0.0. Many of the 0.0 alliances that I know will make exceptions to thier SP rule especially if they have someone that they respect that will vouch for your knowledge of the game.

If you would have read the sticky in the corp section of this forums you would have notice me explaining many of the common restrictions for recruitment into corps and alliances. A lot of players from other games tend to look at eve requirements in the view of a standard level based game such as each  million SP is a level or something.  Generally with about a month of skill training before wasting time on learnings you can get all of the skills to the point where you can survive and live in 0.0. The problem is getting you to understand all of the minute little tricks to keep your ass alive, that often takes far longer than that month.

For that find a low sec/high sec hybrid corp, allows you a safe way to earn money in most cases as well as in amny cases a way to get combat experience as well as fleet operations experience. By the time you have most of the stuff you can learn thier down you'll be all set with the SP  to move out to 0.0 as well as the far more important player skills that help you move around and live in effectively always hostile area.

I definitely agree that knowing the basic mechanics and strategies of pvp is an absolute must, and that one can learn these somewhat in a noob corp in low sec. However, I completely disagree about your statement on 0.0 fleet combat. In my time playing the game, the largest fleet battle I participated in was the most fun and exciting time I have experienced in an MMO since I first played EQ long ago.

I do not quite believe your statement in red. Another person in thread said 4-6 months, and I said about 1.5 to 3 months. Obviously it is very subjective, as it depends on what role you are trying to fill and how much training you think is adequate. I know when I started 0.0 pvp I played in a cheaply outfitted cruiser as I expected to die. I guess I don't quite remember how long it takes to train the learning skills (3 weeks? at least to get a good amount of them), but I really would not advise training anything before them as you are being incredibly inefficient and are going to slow yourself down from getting to the point where you would be well skilled for pvp.

Again, all of this only applies if he is interested in pvp in EVE. If you want to do missions, mine, manufacture, or trade then you can start immediately (although I would still suggest tossing learning skills in if you think you will play the game for anything longer than 2 months) and will slowly develop an increased repertoire of skills.

Originally posted by skankyrart

I'd say that you could train to be a tackling cruiser relatively fast, but in reality pvp in 0.0 space requires a BC, BS, or t2 ship - all of which will take that 4-6 months to be adequately trained in (note, I did pvp in a cruiser, but you won't be doing much dmg to a BS). Note, to be able to kill pirates in 0.0 space you need to be at least moderately trained to fly a battlecruiser. As an aside, I think it would be very interesting if they started a new server and you could see the game develop from the beginning.

Yep, and this is exactly why people like me stay the fuck out of 0.0 and are having a blast in Factional Warfare - where the blobs are smaller, entirely avoidable, and T1 frigs are fine.  Hell, I know a four-year vet, he's one of the best pilots in the Gallente militia and he spends most of his time in a Tristan, though he fits his different than I fit mine

One of the biggest advantages Eve has right now, and, imo, the reason it's still growing is there's no fixed progression - you log in, you do what you like.  Odds are whatever you like, there's a way to do it in Eve, so long as it involves spaceships.

Next to the whole 'I can't catch up to people in SPs' bit, I think the biggest misconception about Eve from people who don't play (and even those who do) is that there's some sort of end-game, and you have to be in 0.0 to experience it.  There is no 'end-game', just the game.

Originally posted by skankyrart

Originally posted by Squal'Zell

and in any other MMORPG how long would it take you to reach the "gates of hell" (arbitrary name) end game?

treat the 0.0 space as hostile space that you should not go untill you actually have some experience playing the game. im sure you would not take a lvl 10 character to an end game dungeon would you?

And anyway, taking WAR, for example, it takes about a month, give or take, for the average gamer to hit lvl 40 and acquire a decent amount of gear to get to the "end game" of t4 zone control, fortress sieges, and ultimately city sieges. But pvp shouldn't be "end game" content in EVE and as such it  shouldn't take 2 months to train up enough skills such that you stand somewhat of a chance out there.

well games like WAR or WoW or EQ2 or AoC are games that are meant for the general masses where everything needed to play the game decently (not the greatest items but enough to be average) is handed to you on a silver platter with very minimal effort. now EVE is not like that, you need to be logical and you have to think a bit on how you are going to proceed. there is no marked path that you take in order to do X thing. you have to figure it out and plan it out. so if you want to pvp, you have to

a) work for your ship and equipment (being missions or trading or mining)

b) think of the skills you need and their pre-requisits (heh reminds me of my choosing classes for university)

c) find yourself a corp that fits your chosen game style (pirating, mercenary, anti-pirate industrial trading etc...)

on a normal MMORPG such as WoW or WAR you start at lvl 1 and next step is level 2 and then level 3 and so on. and enemies get harder the further you go from the town. if you want to pvp you go to a designated area which is reserved to pvp. (on normal servers) if you want this gear you go to x dungeon and hope to get the drop you want.