Originally posted by demonic87

Well then we should all hope for darkfall, mortal online, maybe Starwars TOR and any other mmo trying to go for sandbox to suceed, it will be technically 1 gen back but its still a gen better than this one.

Imo we have no idea what next-gen will be and we cannot have. Like with all inventions that "changed the world", no one really knew what they'll be until they happened. The historical examples are too numerous to mention.

That's why I think that this "only sandbox can be next gen" is quite naive. First graphical mmo was sandbox... so it is a bit absurd thinking that the revolutionary next-gen game is going to be exactly like the one made more than 10 years ago...

My guess is that the "next" next-game is going to be something that isn't a sandbox and it isn't a theme-park but something completely different. What? We don't know and cannot know until we see it.

Imo WAR is pretty close on that track - it is a theme-park game and yet it is situated in a dynamic world that is player-driven... so it is has elements of a theme-park and sandbox. Imo this is a way forward. Though WAR shows its legacy to other games it does have this new spark - a game that is going to be built completely on this new paradigm "dynamic player-driven themepark" is going to be a true next-gen.

But what do I or anyone else really know? As I said above, we won't really know until such game appears. It might be something completely different from what I just described. People who live off mmos and companies making 100s of millions $$ don't know - so how can we?

Heh - WoW was next-gen at its time. Its polish and UI were a sufficient leap forward for the genre to be propelled into "next-gen" even though the rest of the game was pretty much the same old bland bs... Who knows which area the next step making that "next gen" is going to take place.. It may not even be core gameplay - some people betted that AoC is going to be next-gen due to its gfx and control scheme... Who knows?

the next generation MMORPG doesn't have to have numbers to back it up, only the quality of gameplay and so far...the gameplay is laggy

In all seriousness, i think WAR is close but not close enough (or finished for that matter) yet.

Haha this theard made me laugh we got all kinds of archtypes of posters in here, hey, come on guys, let's just enjoy our mmo's good or bad lets not hate, if someone says this game is amazing instead of disagreeing go to your respective mmo fourm section where you should stay haha, and say how great that game is.

How can this be next generation?

Agreed, it has some cool new ideas but it hardly offers anything new.

I went to my m8s recently and I was watching him play in a bg..I didn't realise he was playing WAR. I thought he was playing WoW.

Yes I have played them both, and although they are both good in their own right, they - as all recent MMO's are just re-hashed versions of one another.

Lets have a truly 'next gen' MMO. A different angle. A  new approach to the whole genre.

I'm not knocking WAR, I personally was let down by it as I felt it offered nothing I hadn't seen before. So I quit.

More power to those that love it.

Amafi

Originally posted by markoraos

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Nightbringe1

Originally posted by Yamota

Almost forgot something: Public Quests! Another innovative feature which lets several players, independent of each other, contribute to finish a quest and then get a reward based on the contribution.

Really I think people are not giving enough credit to this game for all its innovative features.

 

Public quests past tier 1 were DEAD, as you NEVER saw anyone doing them.  The concept was good but the incentive was just not there to get the crowds away from power leveling in scenarios and out actually doing the content.

 

Yeah this seems to be a problem, scenarios is by far the most popular way of leveling, but that could easily be rectified if they put more inventives to do open RvR and PQs. Right now I can get alot more exp from scenarios than anything else so naturally this is what most people will do.

But if they bump the rewards for PQs and open RvR (or penalties for not doing them) I think more people would do it.

For example, right now all you get is some bonuses if you take over something in open RvR. If they increased those bonuses and also put penalties (maybe world wide so all players would get involved) then I think more people would get involved because then it would affect them more.

The devs simply need to grow some **** and stop playing it safe.

 

I'm sorry but this is simply no longer true. Since patch 1.1 open RvR has been crawling with players. Actually the best way to level atm is to open RvR.

Additonally keep defense gives you much better xp, rp and inf rewards over time than keep taking. Besides killing massive amounts of enemies (you are at advantage for being on defense) you get huge periodic lump rewards based on how many enemies are attacking, state of the door etc etc.

Scenarios have become what they originally were supposed to be - a sideline. You queue for scenarios if you're doing solo PvE or just want a quick match to take a break from open RvR madness.

Have you played the game since the last patch? Maybe you did - I hear that there still are servers with some degree of keep trading but I can't fathom why. Maybe the news hasn't reached them yet that keep defense is the way to go (unless you want that final chest piece for your set ). Atm - the more enemies around = better rewards. Taking undefended keeps is pretty meager - unless you're seriously outnumbered and want to set up a defense of your own.

Ok, if that is true then the problem seems to be of getting people aware of open RvR because I looked both in T1 and T2 open RvR areas and there has been no people to be found and no open parties either. Maybe there are closed teams running around but as a new player how should you get into those?

I guess there needs to be a system to get people involved, not just guild people but all people, just as there are for scenarios.

WAR is your typical run-of-the-mill fantasy themepark with a few gimics tossed in.  No reason not to like it, but WAR is certainly not anything I'd consider to have evolved the genre.

no since the graphic sucky suck  so does the gameplay that has nothing new to offer whatsoever

Mention one other MMORPGs wich allowed you to solely level by doing PvP? I have played basically all MMORPGs since UO and in none of them have I been able to do that.

If you dont like PvP then that is another matter but to say that this is not innovative is just plain wrong. Fighting real players instead of AI mobiles as your main source of exp gain (observe I said main source). That is revolutionary.

Public Quests I can admit has been done in other MMORPG like CoX but not as well as in this game. Same with tanks being useful in PvP, they almost always are worthless in PvP in other MMORPGs.

Originally posted by Yamota

Mention one other MMORPGs wich allowed you to solely level by doing PvP? I have played basically all MMORPGs since UO and in none of them have I been able to do that.

If you dont like PvP then that is another matter but to say that this is not innovative is just plain wrong. Fighting real players instead of AI mobiles as your main source of exp gain (observe I said main source). That is revolutionary.

Public Quests I can admit has been done in other MMORPG like CoX but not as well as in this game. Same with tanks being useful in PvP, they almost always are worthless in PvP in other MMORPGs.

So having a feature that UO had makes the game a next generation MMO?

And tanks are very useful in PvP in AoC for one game, and in Guildwars they are better in PvP than PvE.

As 'Next Generation' is about as meaningful as Homer Simpson's favourite term 'Miracle Breakthrough', it is pointless to argue whether any game does or does not qualify for the title.

The earler comment about 'It can't be Next Generation if it isn't Sandbox' also made me laugh, since the idea that giving 'power to the people' will somehow fix everything has always seemed naive to me.

With regard to player generated content, if people are heavily critical of professionally written material then who is going to volunteer to spend large amounts of their own personal time only to be insulted by other players that thought it was crap? In all probability, there will be a handful of people with the patience to try to do a good job & the majority of new content would somewhat less innovative.

When it comes to player self regulation in PvP, improvised law enforcement systems are unlikely to be run 'for the benefit of all' & the descent into anarchy or mafia style protection rackets seem pretty inevitable. Not that there is necessarily anything wrong with that & I am sure there is a target audience, but it isn't going to create a 'Brave New World' either.

Personally I think the future lies in developers creating intelligent worlds where players can truly make a difference but without requiring them to be responsible for writing new content. Better AI programming to control the behaviour of game world mechanics could make things more interesting without relying on other players volunteering to fill in the gaps. That way people would still be able to enjoy all material even if they wanted to play in the middle of the night.

Warhammer is experimenting with allowing players to be control some parts of the world around them to a very limited degree, but it is early days yet & things will hopefully improve over time.

I enjoy the game very much but accept that others don't. As long as a game is fun to play, it is irrelevant to me whether it is considered 'Next Gen', 'New Wave', 'Cutting Edge' etc etc

Just my opinions of course.

Originally posted by raizzeen

no since the graphic sucky suck  so does the gameplay that has nothing new to offer whatsoever

Failed on both "arguments". Try again.

Originally posted by markoraos

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by Yamota

Almost forgot something: Public Quests! Another innovative feature which lets several players, independent of each other, contribute to finish a quest and then get a reward based on the contribution.

Really I think people are not giving enough credit to this game for all its innovative features.

 

Public quests are not innovative.  UO has had them for years (called champion spawns).   WOW also had them very often with events, like the AQ gate opening event and the scourge invasions.

Lol, have you played the game at all? There is no comparison whatsoever - it's like saying EVE online is nothing special cause you know Space Invaders had spaceships shooting lasers. And comparing PQs with the AQ event in WoW is completely laughable - there is absolutely NOTHING to link the two, nothing whatsoever - this just shows that you have no idea whatsoever what you're talking about.

Warhammer really is just DAoC gone wrong.  Combat isn't as fluid and the seige mechanisms are much simpler.. you can't even move your seige weapons.  Then they tack on things like scenarios, which are just copies of the most boring battlegrounds from WOW and DAoC.

People who have very limited experience ALWAYS think of their game as innovative.

Lol. Just lol. Had to end it on a personal note didn't you? "Whoever doesn't agree with me is obviously of very limited experience." Pathetic rhetorical tricks - nothing that isn't normally expected from you.

Please go back to whatever game you're ACTUALLY playing at the moment and that you have real knowledge of. And we know what that game is.

 

Why? Because he is right?

He might have been a bit off the mark with Public Quests, altho they are not that innovative at all. Just boring repetitive grind spots to fill another XP bar for loot.

oRvR in WAR is indeed what he said: DAOC gone wrong in every sense!

People are getting bored out of their skull in Tier4 at the moment.

It's so static and linear... the only thing you doing in Tier4 is BO and Keep swapping and grinding your skull out of boredom with PQ's and Scenario's in a desperate attempt to lock down a zone, just so the other side can ninja it back a couple hours later when you are at sleep.

Rinse and repeat!

And if you manage to lock down two zones and actually open up a Fortress Siege it will be one big slideshow inevitably ending up in zonewide crash, bugging the campain and resulting in a reset and thus whiping all your realm's hard work on progress.

Plenty of people on my server and several in my guild now have full Anhiliator Armor set for some time now and basically stuck at progress as it's just basically impossible to get to the next stage, wich is the dreadful and bugged Fortress Siege zones.

----------

It all looked nice and dandy on Paper! But Mythic failed to properly test it all in Beta to see the whole oRvR design is majorly flawed, NOT fun, boring real quick and just plain not working!!

I had a very active guild.... hence all the guilds in my alliance were very active!

Now hardly anyone logs in anymore. Everyone that managed to get into Tier4 got bored or even quit.

Cheers

WAR is about as much of a next generation as my grandpa

Hmm next generation? no I would say there wont be a next generation for MMO's Because it was truely a marketing ploy that has seen its hayday and slowly dying because of greed.

I still remember the reason folks talked me into actually paying for a game monthly ,

1, free updates and expansions

2,game bugs would get fixed because game was ever evolving therefore they would fix them constantly

3,level your char and get to keep it forever, yeah at least you can log into ghost towns and feel uber by yourself.

now we have evolved to item malls, soe cash  and rmt.

lets see out of those three i think mmo delivered on one promise , thats until they shut the servers down

If warhammer is next gen, then mmorpgs are regressing.  WoW, EQ2, EVE, and many other mmorpgs dominate warhammer simple by being finished products.  This is coming from a former warhammer player and fan.

Oh, btw, EA is working on a secret mmorpg, code name "project B"; investing over $150 million in.  Faith in warhammer? Me thinks not.

I like WAR and I have a semi decent time playing it especially since Patch 1.1 (tho i wish people would ORVR somewhere else other than the Empire Lands over and over again) but its not Next Gen.  Its an evolved hybrid of RVR & PVE.   Its not meant to be DAoC 2 or even WoW with a PVP focus...people judging it as if it should of been either of these never paid a lick of attention to it during development.   People claiming next gen are either inexperienced or delusional.   People claiming major innovation need to do some history lessons on MMOs and people claiming that Public Quests are a rehash of something WoW or UO did need to be beaten and taken out back.

UO didn't have "quests" its never had "quests" atleast not the REAL UO...maybe the new fantastical bastardized version of it does but who really counts that version as a valid judgement?

WoW has never had 'public' quests.  WoW is all about Self Play and selfishness in using your 'guild' for your goals.  You can't complete your goals without help but completing your goals never completes anyone elses.  Atleast in WAR the public quests everyone participating is essentially working together without being forced to actually group (though many / most due since its far more beneficial to do so).

WAR is not next gen or old gen it just current gen with a few twists on how to do things that people haven't seen before or in a while.

Originally posted by TheHavok

If warhammer is next gen, then mmorpgs are regressing.  WoW, EQ2, EVE, and many other mmorpgs dominate warhammer simple by being finished products.  This is coming from a former warhammer player and fan.

Oh, btw, EA is working on a secret mmorpg, code name "project B"; investing over $150 million in.  Faith in warhammer? Me thinks not.

EQ 2 was NOT a finish product during its first year of life..it took it nearly 2 years to become 'finished'.   Eve had little to finish you log on ...skill up blow up some ships...there's nothing overly deep in the long run since your looking at space ships and stars...where's the exploration? Where's content beyond economy & battle?  Sorry EvE may be finished but its a Breed of its own.    Comparing games that are several years old to a baby out of the gate is still the dumbest practice.  You'll never see an MMO launch and it be universally considered 'complete'.   Not even WoW was..hell WoW had no end game at its launch.   It worked people played it..and the same thing can easily be said about WAR.   The power behind the IP's is what seperates them.  Blizzard & Warcraft have been extremely popular in the US and Asia for years before WoW was ever released.    Warhammer how ever is a niche and always has been. 

Originally posted by Guillermo197

Originally posted by markoraos

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by Yamota

Almost forgot something: Public Quests! Another innovative feature which lets several players, independent of each other, contribute to finish a quest and then get a reward based on the contribution.

Really I think people are not giving enough credit to this game for all its innovative features.

 

Public quests are not innovative.  UO has had them for years (called champion spawns).   WOW also had them very often with events, like the AQ gate opening event and the scourge invasions.

Lol, have you played the game at all? There is no comparison whatsoever - it's like saying EVE online is nothing special cause you know Space Invaders had spaceships shooting lasers. And comparing PQs with the AQ event in WoW is completely laughable - there is absolutely NOTHING to link the two, nothing whatsoever - this just shows that you have no idea whatsoever what you're talking about.

Warhammer really is just DAoC gone wrong.  Combat isn't as fluid and the seige mechanisms are much simpler.. you can't even move your seige weapons.  Then they tack on things like scenarios, which are just copies of the most boring battlegrounds from WOW and DAoC.

People who have very limited experience ALWAYS think of their game as innovative.

Lol. Just lol. Had to end it on a personal note didn't you? "Whoever doesn't agree with me is obviously of very limited experience." Pathetic rhetorical tricks - nothing that isn't normally expected from you.

Please go back to whatever game you're ACTUALLY playing at the moment and that you have real knowledge of. And we know what that game is.

 

 

Why? Because he is right?

He might have been a bit off the mark with Public Quests, altho they are not that innovative at all. Just boring repetitive grind spots to fill another XP bar for loot.

oRvR in WAR is indeed what he said: DAOC gone wrong in every sense!

People are getting bored out of their skull in Tier4 at the moment.

It's so static and linear... the only thing you doing in Tier4 is BO and Keep swapping and grinding your skull out of boredom with PQ's and Scenario's in a desperate attempt to lock down a zone, just so the other side can ninja it back a couple hours later when you are at sleep.

Rinse and repeat!

And if you manage to lock down two zones and actually open up a Fortress Siege it will be one big slideshow inevitably ending up in zonewide crash, bugging the campain and resulting in a reset and thus whiping all your realm's hard work on progress.

Plenty of people on my server and several in my guild now have full Anhiliator Armor set for some time now and basically stuck at progress as it's just basically impossible to get to the next stage, wich is the dreadful and bugged Fortress Siege zones.

----------

It all looked nice and dandy on Paper! But Mythic failed to properly test it all in Beta to see the whole oRvR design is majorly flawed, NOT fun, boring real quick and just plain not working!!

I had a very active guild.... hence all the guilds in my alliance were very active!

Now hardly anyone logs in anymore. Everyone that managed to get into Tier4 got bored or even quit.

Cheers

Have you done champion spawns in UO?   Let me describe them.

You and other people show up, and there are a lot of 'easy' mobs running around.   You kill a lot of the easy mobs, and if you do it fast enough, the easy mobs are replaced by slightly harder mobs.  If you kill them fast enough, they are replaced by slightly harder mobs.... this goes on for about 8 levels of difficulty. Finally you get to the last level and if you kill them fast enough, a champion spawns.  Killing that and you get special loot.

That is basically the mechanism behind the PQs that I experienced and is the same as UO had.

Originally posted by Loke666

Wow and DaoC had a baby, it is WAR. It is not a next generation game, public quests and a few more new stuff is not enough for that.

The only possible next gen MMOs I read about are Mortal online, Guildwars 2, TOR and World of darkness online. The last one is the one I think will be the next gen of them, CCP are good on thinking out of the box .

Tor are working on a new way for character development. Mortal went back to UO and then try to rethink the MMOs based on UO instead of EQ and GW2 are taking massive PvP to a new level.

WODO however are making a leveless RPG based game that sounds really good, they are looking back to what happened with the pen and paper games and try to evolve MMOs in the sane direction.

That's what I think too,the real next gen MMO will be World of Darkness and CCP has been the only company remaining true to its fanbase until now.While everyone else has been trying to put their asses on multiple chairs and ended up being brutally impaled .

War is no next gen but simply looks like "Iznogoud" who wanted to replace The Kalif by being Kalif.

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by Guillermo197

Originally posted by markoraos

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by Yamota

Almost forgot something: Public Quests! Another innovative feature which lets several players, independent of each other, contribute to finish a quest and then get a reward based on the contribution.

Really I think people are not giving enough credit to this game for all its innovative features.

 

Public quests are not innovative.  UO has had them for years (called champion spawns).   WOW also had them very often with events, like the AQ gate opening event and the scourge invasions.

Lol, have you played the game at all? There is no comparison whatsoever - it's like saying EVE online is nothing special cause you know Space Invaders had spaceships shooting lasers. And comparing PQs with the AQ event in WoW is completely laughable - there is absolutely NOTHING to link the two, nothing whatsoever - this just shows that you have no idea whatsoever what you're talking about.

Warhammer really is just DAoC gone wrong.  Combat isn't as fluid and the seige mechanisms are much simpler.. you can't even move your seige weapons.  Then they tack on things like scenarios, which are just copies of the most boring battlegrounds from WOW and DAoC.

People who have very limited experience ALWAYS think of their game as innovative.

Lol. Just lol. Had to end it on a personal note didn't you? "Whoever doesn't agree with me is obviously of very limited experience." Pathetic rhetorical tricks - nothing that isn't normally expected from you.

Please go back to whatever game you're ACTUALLY playing at the moment and that you have real knowledge of. And we know what that game is.

 

 

Why? Because he is right?

He might have been a bit off the mark with Public Quests, altho they are not that innovative at all. Just boring repetitive grind spots to fill another XP bar for loot.

oRvR in WAR is indeed what he said: DAOC gone wrong in every sense!

People are getting bored out of their skull in Tier4 at the moment.

It's so static and linear... the only thing you doing in Tier4 is BO and Keep swapping and grinding your skull out of boredom with PQ's and Scenario's in a desperate attempt to lock down a zone, just so the other side can ninja it back a couple hours later when you are at sleep.

Rinse and repeat!

And if you manage to lock down two zones and actually open up a Fortress Siege it will be one big slideshow inevitably ending up in zonewide crash, bugging the campain and resulting in a reset and thus whiping all your realm's hard work on progress.

Plenty of people on my server and several in my guild now have full Anhiliator Armor set for some time now and basically stuck at progress as it's just basically impossible to get to the next stage, wich is the dreadful and bugged Fortress Siege zones.

----------

It all looked nice and dandy on Paper! But Mythic failed to properly test it all in Beta to see the whole oRvR design is majorly flawed, NOT fun, boring real quick and just plain not working!!

I had a very active guild.... hence all the guilds in my alliance were very active!

Now hardly anyone logs in anymore. Everyone that managed to get into Tier4 got bored or even quit.

Cheers

Have you done champion spawns in UO?   Let me describe them.

You and other people show up, and there are a lot of 'easy' mobs running around.   You kill a lot of the easy mobs, and if you do it fast enough, the easy mobs are replaced by slightly harder mobs.  If you kill them fast enough, they are replaced by slightly harder mobs.... this goes on for about 8 levels of difficulty. Finally you get to the last level and if you kill them fast enough, a champion spawns.  Killing that and you get special loot.

That is basically the mechanism behind the PQs that I experienced and is the same as UO had.

You are quoting the wrong person. Im no the guy posting in yellow. I was quoting the guy in yellow! Meaning I did you a favor.

Learn to read, before wildly quoting!