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Originally posted by Daffid011

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People were willing to wait in line for hours just for the chance to log into WoW 1.1 and subscriptions were growing by 100k's each month.
People were not willing to stick around even with no wait time to log in.  Subscriptions were dropping by 100k's since launch.
I don't think we need a hypothetical situation.
 

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Right. Because the people playing WoW today could handle 40 man raids, every healing class having to heal. Warriors only tanking. Horrible gear, terrible talents, horrendeous class balance (hunters and warlocks were broken up until 1 year after launch). No easy dailies. You didnt get epics for logging in. You had to earn your epics. Actualling using CC and your brains in 5mans and not face rolling through an instance in 5 mins. No arenas and bg's for welfare epics.

There is no way in hell the ADHD ritalin fuelled kiddies that play WoW today could have handled WoW pre-BC. If they did then Blizzard wouldnt have dumbed down WoW so much in WotLK would they now?

80% of the people I played with pre-BC have quit the game or hardly log on anymore.

Originally posted by floppyface

 

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Originally posted by Daffid011

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People were willing to wait in line for hours just for the chance to log into WoW 1.1 and subscriptions were growing by 100k's each month.
People were not willing to stick around even with no wait time to log in.  Subscriptions were dropping by 100k's since launch.
I don't think we need a hypothetical situation.
 

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Right. Because the people playing WoW today could handle 40 man raids, every healing class having to heal. Warriors only tanking. Horrible gear, terrible talents, horrendeous class balance (hunters and warlocks were broken up until 1 year after launch). No easy dailies. You didnt get epics for logging in. You had to earn your epics. Actualling using CC and your brains in 5mans and not face rolling through an instance in 5 mins. No arenas and bg's for welfare epics.

There is no way in hell the ADHD ritalin fuelled kiddies that play WoW today could have handled WoW pre-BC. If they did then Blizzard wouldnt have dumbed down WoW so much in WotLK would they now?

80% of the people I played with pre-BC have quit the game or hardly log on anymore.

Well your personal experiences are representative of everyone else in WoW?

Your viewpoint that new WoW players somehow are now less able than a year or two ago and just couldn't endure the harsh punishing WoW of yester year sounds like you are just saying anything to endorse your new opinion.  I have news for you, MMOs are not hard and new players usually suck a bit until they learn.  Wow keeps growing, because it is fun.  It was growing at 40 man raids, 25 man raids and 10 man raids.  Long before dailies, arenas, welfare epics and so on.  It was growing despite everything you have said.

While I respect everyones right to have an opinion, you seem to just make things up as fact and sprinkle some insults on top as if that somehow makes you insightful.  I'm sorry to say that I doubt you could be any further from the truth if you tried and I think you are trying really hard.

I hate WoW with a passion since they butchered the lore and didn't listen to the players very well(I refused to keep playing when The Burning Crusade launched, and I stopped subscribing 3 days before that).

However, when WoW first came out(I bought it the first month of retail), I was astonished.  The game was polished and the graphics were great compared to the other games of the time, the world looked fantastic, I was in awe with my orc as I saw many of the relations between the Warcraft strategy game and WoW, it was simple to learn and play, and it was just... well... fun.  I cannot deny it.  It was fun and I had a blast playing the game from level 1, all the way to level 60.  I didn't always quest.  I didn't rush my levels.  I played when I wanted to, did quests when I wanted to, grinded the local mobs when I wanted to, crafted when I wanted to, PvP'd when I wanted to(Hillsbrad and, later, AB  were fantasticly fun), and I always felt like I was accomplishing something.  That feeling of accomplishment is, what I believe, kept me playing.  Even when I hit 60, I was still able to do quests, improve my gear, craft, or join my guild for a raid and still feel like I was accomplishing something and making progress.

I feel that Blackwing Lair, when it was the hardest raid in the game with the best loot, was the pinnacle addition to WoW.  That was the time when I believe WoW was truly at its peak as far as the fun factor went for everyone, be it low levels, high levels, PvEers and even PvPers to a degree.  Yes, these raids were repetitive and required certain methods to beat that took time and gear to learn, but it was fun, and there was plenty of time back then to learn since there wasn't much in the way taking up the raider's time if they wanted to learn and raid.

With the release of AQ, things started going downhill.  New additions felt more like chores.  New gear started being TOO good.  Raids felt way to repetitive and unforgiving.  Extreme time devotion became more and more necessary to continue progressing forward, even moreso than with the raids of earlier.  I began to start loathing the game with a small hatred after the AQ release, but I still played and raided on my Orc Shaman.  But it was this point that every subsequent release began to bring in more and more time consuming additions that felt too much for a player like myself, someone who learned, geared up for, raided, and ENJOYED BWL.  Everything being added at this point, honestly was no longer fun to me, and felt more like a chore, more like a job, more like a time waster instead of entertainment.

Nothing added at that point was going to change my mind, and so when the next expansion was announce and about to be released, I quit cold turkey and never looked back, because the WoW I once knew and loved would never be the same as it used to be.  And I'm glad I did quit, because back then, my two other roommates in college were addicted to WoW, and were still playing it, and just as I forsaw, everything they did never looked a bit fun to me.

I used to be a subscriber.  I used to love the game.  I will continue to love it for what it was in the past, but I cannot, will not, and never will love it for what it has become.

But what I experienced in the past that hooked me will most definitally hook new players, because like I said before, I had fun and loved how everything looked and played, and experiencing all this was fantastic.  And to have raw fun is one of the reasons why people play games to begin with.

Blizzard is successful with WoW because they launched perfectly.  Great history of successful game titles, great beta, smooth and polished launch, and plenty of varied content to allow players to have fun doing whatever they want.  The game may be crap now, but the game's starting area and new player experiences will ALWAYS be great because of how polished the game was from the start on.

Blizzard launched their title correctly and with no intentions to crush everyone else at that time.  And that's why they still have the most subscribers.  But I will not play the game since it's no longer fun for me, but what isn't fun for me is probably fun for others, so they cater to the majority over the minority.

And I will never forgive them for butchering the lore of the game. 

Originally posted by Darxio

I hate WoW with a passion since they butchered the lore and didn't listen to the players very well(I refused to keep playing when The Burning Crusade launched, and I stopped subscribing 3 days before that).

 

However, when WoW first came out(I bought it the first month of retail), I was astonished.  The game was polished and the graphics were great compared to the other games of the time, the world looked fantastic, I was in awe with my orc as I saw many of the relations between the Warcraft strategy game and WoW, it was simple to learn and play, and it was just... well... fun.  I cannot deny it.  It was fun and I had a blast playing the game from level 1, all the way to level 60.  I didn't always quest.  I didn't rush my levels.  I played when I wanted to, did quests when I wanted to, grinded the local mobs when I wanted to, crafted when I wanted to, PvP'd when I wanted to(Hillsbrad and, later, AB  were fantasticly fun), and I always felt like I was accomplishing something.  That feeling of accomplishment is, what I believe, kept me playing.  Even when I hit 60, I was still able to do quests, improve my gear, craft, or join my guild for a raid and still feel like I was accomplishing something and making progress.

 

I feel that Blackwing Lair, when it was the hardest raid in the game with the best loot, was the pinnacle addition to WoW.  That was the time when I believe WoW was truly at its peak as far as the fun factor went for everyone, be it low levels, high levels, PvEers and even PvPers to a degree.  Yes, these raids were repetitive and required certain methods to beat that took time and gear to learn, but it was fun, and there was plenty of time back then to learn since there wasn't much in the way taking up the raider's time if they wanted to learn and raid.

 

With the release of AQ, things started going downhill.  New additions felt more like chores.  New gear started being TOO good.  Raids felt way to repetitive and unforgiving.  Extreme time devotion became more and more necessary to continue progressing forward, even moreso than with the raids of earlier.  I began to start loathing the game with a small hatred after the AQ release, but I still played and raided on my Orc Shaman.  But it was this point that every subsequent release began to bring in more and more time consuming additions that felt too much for a player like myself, someone who learned, geared up for, raided, and ENJOYED BWL.  Everything being added at this point, honestly was no longer fun to me, and felt more like a chore, more like a job, more like a time waster instead of entertainment.

 

Nothing added at that point was going to change my mind, and so when the next expansion was announce and about to be released, I quit cold turkey and never looked back, because the WoW I once knew and loved would never be the same as it used to be.  And I'm glad I did quit, because back then, my two other roommates in college were addicted to WoW, and were still playing it, and just as I forsaw, everything they did never looked a bit fun to me.

 

I used to be a subscriber.  I used to love the game.  I will continue to love it for what it was in the past, but I cannot, will not, and never will love it for what it has become.

 

But what I experienced in the past that hooked me will most definitally hook new players, because like I said before, I had fun and loved how everything looked and played, and experiencing all this was fantastic.  And to have raw fun is one of the reasons why people play games to begin with.

 

Blizzard is successful with WoW because they launched perfectly.  Great history of successful game titles, great beta, smooth and polished launch, and plenty of varied content to allow players to have fun doing whatever they want.  The game may be crap now, but the game's starting area and new player experiences will ALWAYS be great because of how polished the game was from the start on.

 

Blizzard launched their title correctly and with no intentions to crush everyone else at that time.  And that's why they still have the most subscribers.  But I will not play the game since it's no longer fun for me, but what isn't fun for me is probably fun for others, so they cater to the majority over the minority.

 

And I will never forgive them for butchering the lore of the game. 

Being a lore fan myself, I like what they did,  only narrow minded will say that they butchered the lore sure you may have your opinions on how it should have gone but they didnt butcher it, they keep inventing it and I simply love the fact that the lore didnt just simply stop at the end of WC3 and we are simply living up in this LIMBO where history stopped. WC3 is long gone and history will evolve with WoW and the players get to witness first hand unseen events and outcomes and that is truly amazing.

A prime example is people crying about Illidan being killed , I  simply LOVED the whole plot the whole conspiracy to kill him starting from SSC and TK to BT it was simply epic.

Originally posted by Darxio

I hate WoW with a passion since they butchered the lore and didn't listen to the players very well(I refused to keep playing when The Burning Crusade launched, and I stopped subscribing 3 days before that).

 

However, when WoW first came out(I bought it the first month of retail), I was astonished.  The game was polished and the graphics were great compared to the other games of the time, the world looked fantastic, I was in awe with my orc as I saw many of the relations between the Warcraft strategy game and WoW, it was simple to learn and play, and it was just... well... fun.  I cannot deny it.  It was fun and I had a blast playing the game from level 1, all the way to level 60.  I didn't always quest.  I didn't rush my levels.  I played when I wanted to, did quests when I wanted to, grinded the local mobs when I wanted to, crafted when I wanted to, PvP'd when I wanted to(Hillsbrad and, later, AB  were fantasticly fun), and I always felt like I was accomplishing something.  That feeling of accomplishment is, what I believe, kept me playing.  Even when I hit 60, I was still able to do quests, improve my gear, craft, or join my guild for a raid and still feel like I was accomplishing something and making progress.

 

I feel that Blackwing Lair, when it was the hardest raid in the game with the best loot, was the pinnacle addition to WoW.  That was the time when I believe WoW was truly at its peak as far as the fun factor went for everyone, be it low levels, high levels, PvEers and even PvPers to a degree.  Yes, these raids were repetitive and required certain methods to beat that took time and gear to learn, but it was fun, and there was plenty of time back then to learn since there wasn't much in the way taking up the raider's time if they wanted to learn and raid.

 

With the release of AQ, things started going downhill.  New additions felt more like chores.  New gear started being TOO good.  Raids felt way to repetitive and unforgiving.  Extreme time devotion became more and more necessary to continue progressing forward, even moreso than with the raids of earlier.  I began to start loathing the game with a small hatred after the AQ release, but I still played and raided on my Orc Shaman.  But it was this point that every subsequent release began to bring in more and more time consuming additions that felt too much for a player like myself, someone who learned, geared up for, raided, and ENJOYED BWL.  Everything being added at this point, honestly was no longer fun to me, and felt more like a chore, more like a job, more like a time waster instead of entertainment.

 

Nothing added at that point was going to change my mind, and so when the next expansion was announce and about to be released, I quit cold turkey and never looked back, because the WoW I once knew and loved would never be the same as it used to be.  And I'm glad I did quit, because back then, my two other roommates in college were addicted to WoW, and were still playing it, and just as I forsaw, everything they did never looked a bit fun to me.

 

I used to be a subscriber.  I used to love the game.  I will continue to love it for what it was in the past, but I cannot, will not, and never will love it for what it has become.

 

But what I experienced in the past that hooked me will most definitally hook new players, because like I said before, I had fun and loved how everything looked and played, and experiencing all this was fantastic.  And to have raw fun is one of the reasons why people play games to begin with.

 

Blizzard is successful with WoW because they launched perfectly.  Great history of successful game titles, great beta, smooth and polished launch, and plenty of varied content to allow players to have fun doing whatever they want.  The game may be crap now, but the game's starting area and new player experiences will ALWAYS be great because of how polished the game was from the start on.

 

Blizzard launched their title correctly and with no intentions to crush everyone else at that time.  And that's why they still have the most subscribers.  But I will not play the game since it's no longer fun for me, but what isn't fun for me is probably fun for others, so they cater to the majority over the minority.

 

And I will never forgive them for butchering the lore of the game. 

Blizzard created the lore, Blizzard owns the lore... it's up to Blizzard to direct the lore.    The problem with lore-hounds is they think of the lore as a static thing.. as a story that had an end.   The lore is an every-changing thing.  Alliances come and go, friends become enemys, factions split off from main groups, leaders get more or less powerful... some even die.  It's Blizzard's story to tell
 

Think about real history.  Winston Churchhill was a fabulous leader who led his country through some of it's darkest times.   History books will always make him out to be a great hero because of it... yet a few years later he was voted out of office.

I love how people try to argue that WOW and its expansions are not successful. WOW is the most successful MMORPG for a reason and both of its expansions have been extremely popular. The game continues to grow because Blizzard continually improves and polishes it. WOW is as popular as it is because it is by far the most complete, polished, and well-balanced of any other MMORPG on the market. Those of you who think the game is dying need to lay off the drugs and come back to reality.

As for the arguments I have read about the balancing that occurs in WOW, can any of you name another game on the market that handles this better? I know I can't... I have played nearly every massive that has ever been released and none of them have been as balanced as WOW. Most of them have classes that are totally broken or ridiculously imbalanced one way or the other. There may be imbalances in WOW too, but they are not as prevalent or widespread. This is because when Blizzard sees a problem with a class or other game mechanic, they FIX it. Sometimes this makes certain people mad, but in the end it only serves to improve the game.

ya and i can guess that 90% of thoes numbers are asian and dont let blizzard ty to fool you that there not lol

Originally posted by shamus252

ya and i can guess that 90% of thoes numbers are asian and dont let blizzard ty to fool you that there not lol

Not sure if you noticed, but Wrath hasn't even been released in China yet.

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Originally posted by Azrile

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Originally posted by shamus252

ya and i can guess that 90% of thoes numbers are asian and dont let blizzard ty to fool you that there not lol

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Not sure if you noticed, but Wrath hasn't even been released in China yet.

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WWS parse, Patchwerk fight:
http://wowwebstats.com/brkgepus2i5z3?s=48466-77176

Originally posted by shamus252

ya and i can guess that 90% of thoes numbers are asian and dont let blizzard ty to fool you that there not lol

I knew that name rang a bell....

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Originally posted by shamus252

War is a great game just the cry babys wow trolls need to go ealse where cause there not hurting the games its just getting bigger.

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Seems to be in denial on 2 forums ^^

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by shamus252

ya and i can guess that 90% of thoes numbers are asian and dont let blizzard ty to fool you that there not lol

 

Not sure if you noticed, but Wrath hasn't even been released in China yet.

Um yeah. Now where exactly is Hong Kong and who owns it? Mainland China, no, but 2 areas surrounding it, Hong Kong and Taiwan, do have access to it, and South Korea close by?. With all the players from Oceanics playing in the NA playground (saw alot of that revielled last night for the New Years yelling on the server) Do you honestly think people from China are patiently waiting patiently for their turn and not going for WotLK in neighboring areas?

Wrath of the Lich King was simultaneously released in North America, Europe, Chile, Argentina, and Russia on November 13; Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Malaysia, and Thailand on November 14; and South Korea and the regions of Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Macau on November 18.

Originally posted by trevornor

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by shamus252

ya and i can guess that 90% of thoes numbers are asian and dont let blizzard ty to fool you that there not lol

 

Not sure if you noticed, but Wrath hasn't even been released in China yet.

 

Um yeah. Now where exactly is Hong Kong and who owns it? Mainland China, no, but 2 areas surrounding it, Hong Kong and Taiwan, do have access to it, and South Korea close by?. With all the players from Oceanics playing in the NA playground (saw alot of that revielled last night for the New Years yelling on the server) Do you honestly think people from China are patiently waiting patiently for their turn and not going for WotLK in neighboring areas?

Wrath of the Lich King was simultaneously released in North America, Europe, Chile, Argentina, and Russia on November 13; Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Malaysia, and Thailand on November 14; and South Korea and the regions of Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Macau on November 18.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Omg the expansion is out in my neighbour's country! I'll ditch my level 70 chars here and start over 1-70 in that foreign country so I can get to play the 70-80 content earlier!

Originally posted by floppyface

Originally posted by Azrile

I really just hope that other developers learn THE lesson about WOW, and don't assume too much.

The biggest lesson from WOW is to release a polished game at launch.  Don't hype what you can't deliver, because players won't be fooled past the first month.

I really don't think WOW is where it is necessarily because of certain gameplay features which other games are trying to mimic.  It isn't so much that it is mostly a pve game, or that it is quest-driven or any of that.  The reason AOC and Warhammer failed is because they were not polished at launch and weren't fun to play.

The problem now is I think because of War/AOC that more and more developers are going to move away from a pvp oriented game.  They are going to say that PvE, solo questing games are the only ones that can compete with WOW.

 

Just how polished was WoW at launch? Only 2 raids -ok, 2.5 raids if you count UBRS, no arena, no battlegrounds, no rank system, hybrids that weren't hybrids, horrible talents for most of the classes, horrible itemisation (spirit on tank gear etc), no dailies. Hell, You had to individually fly each section of your journey.

But since 95+% of people playing WoW started well after release, and a hell of a lot after Burning Crusade they they dont know anything about what an mmorpg is like is launch.

Simple hypothetical question for you all. Lets get an original 1.1 WoW classic server and whatever Warhammer was at release. Get a bunch of new people to mmorpg's and see which game they like. I'm willing to bet its not WoW.

 

 

Stop with the stupidity.  WoW had millions of subscribers long before TBC launched.  Terrible post.

Originally posted by trevornor

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by shamus252

ya and i can guess that 90% of thoes numbers are asian and dont let blizzard ty to fool you that there not lol

 

Not sure if you noticed, but Wrath hasn't even been released in China yet.

 

Um yeah. Now where exactly is Hong Kong and who owns it? Mainland China, no, but 2 areas surrounding it, Hong Kong and Taiwan, do have access to it, and South Korea close by?. With all the players from Oceanics playing in the NA playground (saw alot of that revielled last night for the New Years yelling on the server) Do you honestly think people from China are patiently waiting patiently for their turn and not going for WotLK in neighboring areas?

Wrath of the Lich King was simultaneously released in North America, Europe, Chile, Argentina, and Russia on November 13; Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Malaysia, and Thailand on November 14; and South Korea and the regions of Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Macau on November 18.

Yes, but the servers IN CHINA don't have wrath on them yet.   Not to mention the 5M people in China use the mandarin version of the client which hasn't been released yet

i cant speak for other parts of the world but the european servers defianatly only had an initial boost with the release of the lich king but ingame people are saying there is nt the same buzz as there was with the release of the burning crusade there is certainly not the same influx of new players as there was two years ago . plenty of returning ones like myself though . wows still very popular but most of the servers are now medium level populations and theres even around 20 low population servers . however blizzard spins it lich king has been a success but proberbly not as big a success as they would have liked it to be .

 wow will be hear in 6 years time for its 10 th birthday but if you think it can keep its current popularity till then you ve got to be slighly stupid . its decline will be slow but it will happen . to be honest i think we ll start seeing it in the next year partly due to the boredom factor and partly due to the ecconomic ones.

all i can say is i ll be playing it on and off for years to come yet cus i still enjoy it but maybe only for a couple of months or so each year .

Originally posted by andeemann10

Originally posted by Horusra

No MMO out there is not a job to get the best of the best stuff.  If that is your complaint then MMO's are not for you.

for the guy that said that the classes are not balanced.  This would be a valid argument if the game never changed and classes did not grow.  As long as they add and expand what classes can do it will always be a tight rope walk with the classes to keep them balanced.  the good part is that they work on it.  I cry for you that your favorite class might be gimped for a month to another class because the balancing patch is not in yet.

The best "stuff" isn't always the main point of an MMO, but for some reason, gear grind is the only endgame Blizzard knows how to provide. No "casual" MMO makes the gear grind feel more like a job than WoW.

The class "balance" is one of Blizzard's biggest faults. People don't want their class to change every week. But for some reason, the only way Blizzard knows how to balance classes is to nerf them all until a month later they are completely different things than they were a month before. I bet if I resubscribed, my rogue would be a completely different playstyle altogether.

Most of the MMO's I have played are gear grinds, if this was not in place what would be a reason to even play? It feels like an accomplishment to get a piece of gear after working hard for it, not so much when its to easy (which i find funny because most people say wow is Casual). How casual do you want it, solo a boss for a piece of gear? Wouldnt that kill the MMO factor.
 

I like how people throw the word imbalanced around. What exactly is overpowered and underpowered atm besides Death Knight (this was expected new XP means new fixs). I have played mostly every class and they all seem fine. I also play a rogue, what is so funny is our class is complained about the most and you claim that classes are not balanced? What is it they say "Hate the player not the game" to bad thats a good fallout for those unwilling to learn how every class in the game works before coming to the assumption that things are not balanced.  Im not so sure if your claiming that pvp or pve is not balanced either way I have the feeling you never figured out how to play your rogue properly. btw rogue changed alot, our cheap shot now shoots jelly beans at the enemy and stealth lets you see dead people.

Wow had a crapy launch compaired to alot of games I mean it sold a alot of copys but was buggy and very unstable tons of down time.

Originally posted by shamus252

Wow had a crapy launch compaired to alot of games I mean it sold a alot of copys but was buggy and very unstable tons of down time.

Not true. Atleast on the EU-server I played on. There was only few days you could not log on because the queue and thats about it. There were some balance issues but I dont really remember any game breaking bugs.

Originally posted by shamus252

Wow had a crapy launch compaired to alot of games I mean it sold a alot of copys but was buggy and very unstable tons of down time.

US maybe, EU launch and probably the rest of the world since then had a better launch than any other game could come anywhere close to at the time, especially with horrors like Horizons and Shadowbane coming out at the time. The software was incredibly stable and open beta was practically spotless without any bugs.

Most the issues were server load related, loot lag, mail lag. Only memorable bug in game was getting stuck on a mining/herb node now and then, beyond that though, no crashes or anything, a very stable game with very few bugs, just a bit of lag every now and then. (might have been worse on the really overpopped servers though).

That said though, the US launch may have been bad but for the rest of the world, what you speak of is never what they experienced with WoW, even if they were there from *their* beginning.

Yeah US launch was pretty rocky. Constant crashing, long lag pauses. But Im sure it differed on what server you was playing on.