Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by mcpoopypantz

Originally posted by xpiher

IMO, the only way DF will be a mainstream success is if some gear isn't dropable, not all, just some.  For instance someone finds one of the rarest swords in the game, by luck and through group effort and farming for 10+ hrs.  People find out that the person who won the sword on the roll sucks at PvP, so 5 people team up to kill him for it and succeed because its 1v5. Well there goes 10hrs wasted, all the group effort (probably guild), and then the weapon repeatably swiches hands from that point forward. If the item is of rare quality, but farmable, I think it should be soulbound when equiped, or at least be protected in some other meaningful way. I think Runescape's old system, and I almost vomited when I said that, was actually good: 3 of hte "best items" in your inventory are protected unless you started combat, is a great soultion to this obvious issue. Then again, they could just make items less rare as well.

 

Your still thinking WOW or L2 terms.  there isnt gonna be grinding 10 hours for  UBER sword.

 

If it didn't have "uber" items then there wouldn't be any point to loot system, and for items to be worth their uberness they should, nay need, to take time to aquire. And face it, for a game to stay successful (100k+) it has to have attractive PvE as well.

There will be better weapons then others. Higher qualities. GM made weaponry (UO terms) wont be cheap... but they also wotn be omg uberness no skill needed to kill other guy with it. So yes it will be very nice to loot one

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by Ohaan

I never played L2, but did it not have a very steep character level and gear curve? IMO such game designs are inappropriate for open PvP for the exact reason you mention. Newbies are cannon fodder. DF's design features a much flatter advancement and gear curve so that newbies are not so easily ganked. Consequently DF to L2 is not a direct comparison but as you say, time will tell.

 

 

Sure it had a steep level curve, but it also had around 14 million players worldwide at one point. The level curve is part of the game, people played it in spite of - if not because of - that.

Not in an insulting way... but I can see grasping to still find that "one thing" that must have hurt those other games that DF will fix and make it immune to all those problems.

I understand where it comes from. People who are fans of a certain type of game will never want to believe it could ever happen to "their game".

Same thing happened with WAR. I'd predicted that players would find the fastest/easiest way to race to level cap and was shouted down and told I didn't know what I was talking about. "WAR isn't designed to support that kind of playstyle!" they said. "It won't happen in WAR!", and "Go away troll!" (even though I wasn't trolling; I was, like in this thread, pointing at human behavior, not at a flaw in the game design). Well... guess what happened?

To put a twist on Jeff Goldblum's line in Jurassic Park: "Players.... find a way"

No matter how flat or steep of a leveling curve there is, a player coming along after launch, or even one who doesn't play as "aggressively" as others are still going to fall behind and will become fodder for those who want to prey on them.

Those who want to hang around and gank lowbies don't typically play the game like others.. they'll get a certain distance into it, until they know their prey is no match for them - be it a level or an equivalent - and that's all they need.

The legit players will leave the typical ganker in the dust because, again, the typical ganker type is only looking to abuse it at others' expense. They don't *care* about how far they get, as long as they can sit around and abuse new players all day. That *is* the game to them.

If it has a wide open PvP system, I would bet money, you are going to have gankers.

 

I don't feel that I am grasping to any one thing except for the idea that the relative success of an MMO, or any game for that matter, cannot be simply narrowed down to the inclusion/exclusion of one single feature. Posters here have been repeating predictions that DF will fail because it has open PvP and/or full loot.

Will there be gankers in DF? I would also bet on it.

Will there be ganking in DF equivalent to in WoW where a single max level toon takes out an entire town in a newbie zone? Not likely.

Is getting killed in DF going to suck more than getting killed in WoW? Probably. Although I am more accepting of losing a fight against someone against whom I actually stood a chance as opposed to getting one shotted by someone 20 levels higher than me. However, designs with materialistic and gratuitous gameplay like WoW provide little incentive to form tight-knit player communities. On the other hand, adversity brings people together to tackle challenges that cannot be accomplished individually. I fully intend to be part of a clan in DF so that when needed I can rely on guildies to help resupply and they can rely on me.

I disagree about the 'steepness' of the leveling curve not mattering. If game design encourages game play AT the 'level cap' there is no need to continuously raise it (expansions) to keep players grinding. Consequently, new players, while initially at a disadvantage, have the opportunity to catch up. Ultra-casual players in games like WoW or say, L2, never play enough to be on a level playing field with power gamers.

Will casual players and power gamers ever be exactly equal? No. Not in any game. Even in fps games like Quake or UT, experience brings increased skill which means an advantage despite each player starting each match with the same weapon and stats. If that is a deal breaker for someone then they need a reality check on the way competition in life works.

Wow, over 5K views. I hope to see Darkfall, and actually compare it to UO. Let's see if it is UO only in 3d.

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Originally posted by OhaanOhaan

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Originally posteWSIMikeWSIMike

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Originally posOhaany Ohaan

I never played L2, but did it not have a very steep character level and gear curve? IMO such game designs are inappropriate foPvPpen PvP for the exact reason you mention. Newbies are cannon fDF'sr. DF's design features a much flatter advancement and gear curve so that newbies are not so ganked ganked. Consequently DF to L2 is not a direct comparison but as you say, time will tell.
 

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Sure it had a steep level curve, but it also had around 14 million players worldwide at one point. The level curve is part of the game, people played it in spite of - if not because of - that.
Not in an insulting way... but I can see grasping to still find that "one thing" that must have hurt those other games that DF will fix and make it immune to all those problems.
I understand where it comes from. People who are fans of a certain type of game will never want to believe it could ever happen to "their game".
Same thing happened with WAR. I'd predicted that players would find the fastest/easiest way to race to level cap and was shouted down and told I didn't know what I was talking about. "WAR isn't designed to support that kplaystyleplaystyleppened?
To put a twist on Jeff Goldblum's line in Jurassic Park: "Players.... find a way"
No matter how flat or steep of a leveling curve there is, a player coming along after launch, or even one who doesn't play as "aggressiveGoldblum'sers are still going to fall behind and will become fodder for those who want to prey on them.
Those who want to hang around and gank lowbies don't typically play the game like others.. they'll get a certain distance into it, until they know their prey is no match for them - be it a level or an equivalent - and that's all thgankelowbies
e legit players will leave the typical ganker in the dust because, again, the typical ganker type is only looking to abuse it at others' expense. They don't *care* about how far they get, as long as they can sit around and abuse new plgankerall day. That *is* the game to them.
If ganker a wide open PvP system, I would bet money, you are going to have gankers.
 

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I don't feel that I am grasping to any one thing except for the idea that the relative success of an MMO, or any game for that mPvPer, cannot be simply narrowed down to the inclusiogankerssion of one single feature. Posters here have been repeating predictions that DF will fail because it has open PvP and/or full loot.
Will there be gankers in DF? I would also bet on it.
Will there be ganking in DF equivalent to in WoW where a single max level toon takes out an entire town in a newbie zonPvPNot likely.
Is getting killed in gankersg to suck more than getting killed in WoW? Probgankinglthough I am more acceptWoW of losing a fight againsttooneone against whom I actually stood a chance as opposed to getting one shotted by someone 20 levels higher than me. However,WoWsigns with materialistic and gratuitous gameplay like WoW provide little incentive to form tight-knit player communities. On the other hand,shottedity brings people together to tackle challenges that cannot be accomplished individually.gameplay intenWoWo be part of a clan in DF so that when needed I can rely on guildies to help resupply and they can rely on me.
I disagree about the 'steepness' of the leveling curve not mattering. If game design encourages game play AT the 'level cap' there is no need toguildiesously raise it (expansions) to keep players grinding. Consequently, new players, while initially at a disadvantage, have the opportunity to catch up. Ultra-casual players in games like WoW or say, L2, never play enough to be on a level playing field with power gamers.
Will casual players and power gamers ever be exactly equal? No. Not in any game. Even in fps games like Quake oWoWT, experience brings increased skill which means an advantage despite each player starting each match with the same weapon and stats. If that is a deal breaker for someone then they need a reality check on the way competition in life works.
 

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Thats the whole point.  THe game is difficult.  You will probably get ganked, so you had better make friends, you had better learn to defend yourself, you better join a guild, or better yet.  Will you be ganked every time you spawn making it impossible to improve.  No.  Thats the stupdiest claim I've ever heard.  People act like this is the first game that has had pvp.  Im not even going to make analogies because its a waste of time.  If you dont like to fight other players unexpectedly, Darkffall may not be the game for you.  I thinmk  will not be as large as people predict, but if you find ganking too frustraiting you shoudl take your business elsewhere.  If you are in a line for a rollar coaster you dont complain that its too steep, you get in line for the log flume, or you go to a water park, you do something else!!! 

And on that note who is to say that UO was a failure?  I know alot of people who really liked UO (though I myself have not played it).  Some people didn't like it, and some people found it annoying.  To them it was a failure, and they probably found different forms of leisure.  Yes there will be player killing, but there will also be anti-player killers.  I think the game is VERY simmilar to EVE in this sense as I've posted before.  EVE is a huge success.  Its not for everyone, but its certailnly holding its own.

Yea I have no clue why he said UO failed... UO was a big success

Originally posted by mcpoopypantz

Yea I have no clue why he said UO failed... UO was a big success

Because when EQ was released all the carebeares that made tam needed left causing a steep decrease in population.

DF should only have about 8 servers at launch and only release 1-2 more after words if more people decide to sub (not everyone is going to be on at the same time). THis will keep the hype going, and prevent servers from becoming ghost towns.

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by mcpoopypantz

Yea I have no clue why he said UO failed... UO was a big success

 

Because when EQ was released all the carebeares that made tam needed left causing a steep decrease in population.

Yea UO went downhill as every MMO is destined to do.. but it had its golden age and lasted alot longer then most mmo's even today.

Originally posted by xpiher

DF should only have about 8 servers at launch and only release 1-2 more after words if more people decide to sub (not everyone is going to be on at the same time). THis will keep the hype going, and prevent servers from becoming ghost towns.

That will be a lot more servers than the original planned ... one.

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by mcpoopypantz

Yea I have no clue why he said UO failed... UO was a big success

 

Because when EQ was released all the carebeares that made tam needed left causing a steep decrease in population.

DF should only have about 8 servers at launch and only release 1-2 more after words if more people decide to sub (not everyone is going to be on at the same time). THis will keep the hype going, and prevent servers from becoming ghost towns.

DF will be lucky if their published lets them have that many servers at release...