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12/18/08 6:10:38 PM#41
I would say probably not true. I work for a large organization and no one even knows what World of Warcraft is. I think it's a generational thing. Most middle to upper level managers where I work are 40 to 60 years old. They are too busy with real life and interoffice politics and charities to play videogames. |
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12/18/08 6:22:30 PM#42
Don't be a jerk. "There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit." — John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman |
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12/18/08 6:36:00 PM#43
I call BS. And if it is true then it's just another reason to pick on a demographic. Just like the sweet guy earlier in the thread who stereotyped everyone that's not 20 something and single... I used to work as a cook in a bar/restaurant. Let me tell you the kind of utter crap I've seen happen in that line of employment. People staying up at the bar until it closes then end up at a club, drink themselves silly, end up home with someone not their significant other and turn up at work still drunk. Oh yeah ideal stuff right there. People who played EQ all the time when not at work were model employees compared to that mess. So please. Of course anything in excess is bad, doesn't matter if your obsession is video games, alcohol ect.. It leads to trouble. I also recently just worked at a computer store for a bit, most people there played WoW, sales associates and techs alike. Yes sometimes people showed at work tired from staying up too late, but it's not something that rendered almost incapable of performing. Unlike showing up massively hung over or drunk, or high. :/ Also people have to live, start with not hiring MMO players and then what? How long will the questionaire get? .Do you smoke, drink? .Do you have children under the year of 5. .Are you expecting to be married in the next 5 years? .Do you put your pants on right leg first? Come on now.
(,,,)=^__^=(,,,)Game Latte Vidcast |
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Aeroangel
 Novice Member
Joined: 11/10/08
In the end it won't matter how many breaths you took, but how many moments took your breath away. |
12/18/08 6:39:39 PM#44
Originally posted by Arcken I agree with all of that as well. Ideally the people you are hiring are in the mid to late 20s, unmarried, no children, and tons of energy and ambition. That's the ideal person for starting with a company, I think. Anything else is less than ideal. You can't only hire on that basis, but, really, there are ways to set job qualifications and salary levels to screen effectively whom you wish to hire, really. But as for the topic at hand, MMO gaming -- again I wouldn't ask someone to screen on that basis. But if someone were silly enough to volunteer that information in an interview, it would give me pause. Just like I wouldn't expect someone to talk about that DUI they got a few years ago (and yes, that would give me pause, too). Also, everyone should fully expect that employers are running google searches on potential hires, and credit reports are being checked, too. In the grand scheme of things, worrying about MMO use is a small thing, but again if someone volunteered it in an interview, I would be concerned that they might be one of the obsessed players who has "MMOs on the brain", and therefore not a busy little beaver that I would prefer to hire. This made me want to vomit. People with children often possess a great skillset, were generally more patient, better at multitasking, and we arent known for doing irresponsible things like barhopping every night. We show up and work hard because we have kids to support. I dont have the luxory of calling off work for that reason alone. Seriously, Im a better employee than any unmarried 20 somethings at my job, in 2 years, Ive never been late, not once, and have never called off due to my kids. And I do a far better job to boot. I really want to resort to nastiness after reading this, but Ill stop here.
I agree entirely that couples or people with children can be fantastic at their job, and I shared the same feeling you did when reading that. I've also known women, elderly people, and cripples who were also great at their job. I highly doubt the person in orange actually has a white collar job or does any kind of hiring based on what they said and the lingo they used. People need to stop trying to stereotype everyone and just see what the individual is like. -------------------------- |
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12/18/08 6:46:20 PM#45
Originally posted by Cynthe
Becuase (sorry) it's not a thinking job. Being overly tired when doing any kind of job that requires a lot of mental effort is gong to kill your performance. |
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12/18/08 7:46:51 PM#46
I hate to say this but mothers are the worst employees. They call in a ton, have no qualms about leaving as soon as they can get away with, are never willing to put in an extra hour, and generally feel they are entitled to special treatment. I've never worked with a mother that wasn't like this. Everytime I hire one I end up just replacing her, because of the excessive amounts of call-ins. This isn't a shot at mothers, because lots of other employees suck just as bad. Its just this one particular group that never pans out. I've never had a problem with an employee calling in to play a MMO, rushing out the door to play, or refuse to stay and help instead of going home and playing. I've never done that, and the two guys I work with that play MMOs have never done that. I've havent shown up late to work or called in sick in the last 3 years. I'm sure luck has some part to play, since I haven't been sick besides a cold in quite some time. Mothers and drug addicts, though. Both are equally reliable. |
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12/18/08 8:01:32 PM#47
Originally posted by polypterus
Becuase (sorry) it's not a thinking job. Being overly tired when doing any kind of job that requires a lot of mental effort is gong to kill your performance.
I'm sorry helping customers, doing inventory, ordering and managing said inventory, repairing computers both in hardware and software sectors are not thinking jobs?
(,,,)=^__^=(,,,)Game Latte Vidcast |
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12/18/08 8:07:33 PM#48
Originally posted by brostyn
Looks like a pretty good shot to me... lol. There's so much to this issue that you refuse to see or are completely ignorant of, it's quite silly. Be very careful what you say about others before you end up a single father in a new city with no family or friends around you to help you out. And before you tell me you're too good to ever be in that situation or something similar, be prepared to deal with it if ever you are. (,,,)=^__^=(,,,)Game Latte Vidcast |
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Two interesting things happened... The video game players agreed that it's plausible and in some cases reasonable. WoW got bashed sure I set myself up for it by the topic. And it took 50+ posts to get exactly ontopic for a little while, needless to say everything was interestering.
I'd love to call BS But I really can't because I just know the following condition was true at some... A company has had a bad experiance a few times in a row, like a networker getting around the firewall they're responible to configure to play the game. Then I can see a company telling a recruiter to not get WoW players. |
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12/18/08 9:38:41 PM#50
Originally posted by Cynthe
Looks like a pretty good shot to me... lol. There's so much to this issue that you refuse to see or are completely ignorant of, it's quite silly. Be very careful what you say about others before you end up a single father in a new city with no family or friends around you to help you out. And before you tell me you're too good to ever be in that situation or something similar, be prepared to deal with it if ever you are.
If you say so. I'm a father myself(neither of our parents live within 80 miles), so I'm not sure why you'd think I'm totally clueless. If you think there are people out there that don't use this kid excuse every single day you are very naive. Why are you assuming I'm talking about single mothers in new cities with no family or friends? Going out on quite a limb aren't ya? |
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12/18/08 9:50:33 PM#51
Originally posted by brostyn
If you say so. I'm a father myself(neither of our parents live within 80 miles), so I'm not sure why you'd think I'm totally clueless. If you think there are people out there that don't use this kid excuse every single day you are very naive. Why are you assuming I'm talking about single mothers in new cities with no family or friends? Going out on quite a limb aren't ya?
Perfect^^! You two just need a place to get together now. |
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12/18/08 10:12:19 PM#52
My love of MMOs has no impact on my work performance; however spending time posting on various boards seriously impacts on the the amount of work I do. As a manager (ironically) I often have to take workers to task over their "internet" habits. Currently, facebook is the biggest problem, as is instant messaging. Dispite having given it some thought, I just can't come up with an interview question that would weed out workers with these habits. However, I take your point and will be striking "playing MMOs" off my CV, along with my kids, grandkids, and wife; now I only I could do something about my approaching level 50 in real life :) |
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12/18/08 10:14:15 PM#53
Originally posted by Cynthe
I'm sorry helping customers, doing inventory, ordering and managing said inventory, repairing computers both in hardware and software sectors are not thinking jobs?
No they aren’t, not at the level of doing higher math, debugging hundred thousand line programs etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure your job is valuable and I'm sure you are good at it. I'm simply saying that in my experience you can't do really intense mental work efficiently when you only got a few hours sleep the night before. I have seen WoW players coming in hung over from the night before and I have had to work with them. They are good for nothing but surfing the web. I know I have been there myself! I’m not even passing moral judgment but now that I have to think about hiring people I know what I’m NOT looking for. |
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Aeroangel
Novice Member
Joined: 11/10/08
In the end it won't matter how many breaths you took, but how many moments took your breath away. |
12/19/08 12:05:00 AM#54
Originally posted by brostyn
The problem is that your claim of "mothers being the worst employees" is completely anecdotal, or in other words biased and unfounded. In my experience my grandmother who I lived with for half of my life, and almost all of my aunts and cousins on that side of my family were all working mothers or grandmothers taking care of children and having a job were not poor empolyees. It was extremely rare that any of the working women on that side of the family had to miss work or call in a lot, and the only one I know for sure that did is my cousin while she was a single parent and when she was unable to get a baby sitter. I know for a fact that my grandmother virtually never had to miss work because of me or the other children she took care of, and my aunt who sometimes had up to 5 of her grandchildren staying with her almost never called in or got off early because of her grandchildren. Now neither of our cases proves that mothers are great employees or the worst ones, but clearly not everyone has the same story that you provided. But really if you do want to look at some kind of sound evidence look at the women in high powered positions in the world and how many of them have children. I don't think they made it that far in the world by blowing off work all the time like you make it seem. -------------------------- |
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12/19/08 4:07:52 AM#55
In my own personal experience (corporate management professional now for almost 20 years), the women I see around me are of three kinds: (1) women who have no children (generally advance faster and more reliably), (2) women who have children, but husband scales down career and/or stay at home husband, or (3) women who have children and have equal career with husband and/or husband is breadwinner. Type 3 tends to work much less overall than types (1) and (2), tends to request more for part-time or other work arrangements, tends to work much less overtime, if any, arrives late at times due to kids, leaves early at times due to kids, and the like. As a result, type (3) generally does not advance as fast or as far as types (1) and (2), and this is justified because type (3) is simply less focused on work, and is a less productive employee. In a larger corporate setting, you want to have some of type (3) around so that you can say that you have some of them around, but beyond that they don't generally get promoted beyond a certain level. That's life. Sometimes you really *can't* have it all. Most people have figured this out and have accepted it at a certain point in their lives, and have made their personal choices accordingly. Does this mean I would place being a mother on the same level as being an MMO addict in terms of hiring decisions? Of course not! You hire people like type (3) if they have other qualifications, but you have to realize that they probably won't be as productive as other workers in the long run. With someone who has an MMO addiction, you're getting much more of a wildcard. To me, the main issue would be that, unless someone was interviewing for a job relating to the MMO industry, if they were to mention an MMO "hobby" in a job interview I would be concerned that they are one of the obsessed ones ... because otherwise I would not think it would be something someone who is a moderate player would even think to mention in a job interview, to be honest. To me, that's why it would be a red flag. ---------------------------------------- |
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UNATCOII
Apprentice Member
Joined: 3/10/08
MMO doesn''t mean only Groups/Guilds/PvP gaming. |
12/19/08 12:33:49 PM#56
Your explanation went well, until this part, because it doesn't factor in the reality -- that still in this day and age, women are still regarded as caretakers of not only of children, of their parents when they're older (my brother sure isn't caretaking his mom). This burden -- that men often shirk -- is the main reason for what you posted, not because women just do it because they're even required to do so. Until the gender gap is finally eliminated, you betcha women who are caretakers will have no choice but to take time off of work, as the men sure aren't. But no doubt this will fall on deaf ears considering the demographics of the gaming population -- a population dominated by boys and men with more disposible time to play (as they're not caretaking, and not even expected, too).
-- ~Leonardo da Vinci |
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12/19/08 12:40:07 PM#57
Originally posted by UNATCOII
Yes, but it isn't up to employers to change the way that couples and families sort out caregiving -- employers need to look at worker productivity. I agree that if gender roles in general were more equal in terms of caregiving, especially in terms of child care, things would be different --- but they are not, and things are as they are. In any case, I can only report based on what I have seen and continue to see around me in the workplace, and generally my observations of the categories (1) through (3) are what I have seen. ---------------------------------------- |
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UNATCOII
Apprentice Member
Joined: 3/10/08
MMO doesn''t mean only Groups/Guilds/PvP gaming. |
12/19/08 12:48:27 PM#58
Originally posted by Novaseeker
Yes, but it isn't up to employers to change the way that couples and families sort out caregiving -- employers need to look at worker productivity. I agree that if gender roles in general were more equal in terms of caregiving, especially in terms of child care, things would be different --- but they are not, and things are as they are. In any case, I can only report based on what I have seen and continue to see around me in the workplace, and generally my observations of the categories (1) through (3) are what I have seen.
Employers exploit the stereotype -- why the glass ceiling still exists. Your explanation even has it coded in as having moms around with children for "show" (tokens -- let alone getting sued for discrimination). If it wasn't for employers many of the "good o' boy" network wouldn't need to exist today, either. There's more to this issue than a quick answer, and there's plenty of blame to go all around (as some women exploit their status that isn't good for women in general). But businesses are NOT excused from it, they're part of the problem -- especially if playing a game on the clock takes lesser importance than a woman trying to raise a family, and excused (because it affects boys and men mostly)! -- ~Leonardo da Vinci |
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12/19/08 12:53:30 PM#59
Originally posted by UNATCOII
Employers exploit the stereotype -- why the glass ceiling still exists. Your explanation even has it coded in as having moms around with children for "show" (tokens -- let alone getting sued for discrimination). If it wasn't for employers many of the "good o' boy" network wouldn't need to exist today, either. There's more to this issue than a quick answer, and there's plenty of blame to go all around (as some women exploit their status that isn't good for women in general). But businesses are NOT excused from it, they're part of the problem -- especially if playing a game on the clock takes lesser importance than a woman trying to raise a family, and excused (because it affects boys and men mostly)!
I never said it was acceptable to "play a game on the clock", or for it to be excused. If you scroll up, you'll see I was one of those who said that anyone who admitted being an MMORPG player in an interview would raise a red flag for me in the hiring process -- so no free breaks for the "boys" who are gamers, at least not from me. I do not think, though, that women should get breaks because they are raising children. Nor do I think that (the few) men who are primary caregivers should get breaks for that either. ---------------------------------------- |
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12/19/08 1:40:27 PM#60
Originally posted by Waterlily
When was the last time you played wow? Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time. If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD |
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