Originally posted by crysent

Originally posted by dropp

Darkfall isn't the first to introduce a system like this.

Neocron, a game from 2003, is using such a system. it didn't have levels, just skill caps. it also had a system similar to Oblivion's, where you level up attributes by doing actions which are linked to it. the combat is in FPS/TPS (yeah you could change camera position, unlike DF). also, gear was not as important in this game, the main focus was PVPing. the game during beta test had partial PVP looting system; when a person died, one of his items was dropped to the ground (I got a really awesome weapon this way, it was cool). when it launched, the PVP loot system was dumbed down but was still present.

Fallen Earth, a game currently in Alpha state, uses such a system as well. real time FPS/TPS combat system, with no classes (does have levels though). also focuses on PVP, but has a lot of PVE elements and content.

 

so basically, DF brings nothing new unless it does it REALLY good, which is not easy.

 

 

 

No these really are NOT the same thing.  Its a stretch to say Fallen Earth will be based on PvP, in fact they have said there will be limited pvp. Not to mention Darkfall has been in develpment LONGER then Fallen Earth, so it could be said FallenEarth got there ideas from DF instead of saying it the other way around, like you did.  There is also NO mention anywhere of open loot.  I will say this again all I've read about Fallen Earth no where does it say the game will "Focus" on pvp.

 

Neocron? did you actually play this game?  I see few connections between it and Darkfall.  It's probably more like Darkfall then Fallen Earth, I'm surprised you would compare those game.  I think if you really wanted to compare a game to Darkfall it would be early SWG or Ultima Online back in the late 90's. Which had open PvP outside of cities, FULL loot, NO levels, you could mix skills however you want (eg: fisher, mage, miner if you wanted too)

 

I think darkfall is definitley trying to bring some new things to the table or at least GREATLY improve what is currently out there.

you're right, it is a stretch to say that about Fallen Earth. but the fact is, FE is heavily based upon factions, and in order to open up new content in PVE you have to figth and take over towns, etc. and I didn't say FE had PVP loot. also, I didn't say FE didn't copy stuff from Darkfall, but one can't assume it did. what I'm saying is that a lot of games offer classless skill system and real time combat, and I gave FE as a possible example. 

I did play Neocron, since beta and for a long time. there's a connection in the skill system, PVP system and overall feeling. both games have some sort of PVP looting, both games have no classes (Neocron has races instead, which do not count as classes but merely give different attribute caps). basically, in necron you could choose which ever skills you want and you're not limited in a pre-determined skill path.

sure, DF is further develpoing these aspects and does them different, but saying it's brining a change to the industry is a bold thing to say at the moment, especially when other games have tried similar things before.

 also, my first post is a reply to the OP, which looks at Darkfall as the game that introduces these things. I never played SWG and UO so I can't use them as examples, while I did play NC and FE so I can use them as I think they offer similar things (not identical ofcourse, every MMO is unqiue ofcourse).

all in all, DF will triumph if it does those things good, otherwise it will fail like all others who tried brining "something new".

Originally posted by logicbomb82

Skill based system with looting and player controlled Dodging and melee is all things Asheron's Call did 8 years ago. It's the reason many PVP''s still play AC and rave about it.
 

Not to start a quibble or anything but AC did this 10 years ago not 8.  Skill based system with looting, not full loot but looting.  Your right though on the dodging and melee though, in no game to date have I played where your shield makes a real differance and you can see it.  basicly which hand your shield is in that side of your body takes less damage the the part on the opposite side and you saw it when you had your back against a wall and 4 layers deep of Olthoi trying to pound on you.  You would see the one on your shield side swing and hit you would take 27piercing damage maybe even 0.  Then the one on the opposite side, that is not protected by your shield and, WHAM 107piercing damage and that is with out critting.  Or your forgot an armor spell, or you should really not be attacking them.

AOC had a defensive system in place but I thought it was crude and quite pathetic personally, not the only reason I didn't play out of beta but one of the bigger reasons.

As for Darkfall, it seems like if they pull off everything they are saying is in the game it will be the closest thing to an AC game, and to me that will be the best thing out there.

Originally posted by Bulveigh

all games with FPS combat before Darkfall where Scifi or World War games with a strong fokus on ranged combat.

 

so Darkfall is the first fantasy mmo which use this system.. ;)

 

 

 

@Ikonic

 

you loose endurance when you jump, and endurance you need to attack.. so bunny hopping is /death :P

I take it you haven't played DDO. It also has twitch combat and it's fantasy (obviously).

Originally posted by Samhael

So has the OP played DF or is he/she just extrapolating?  If this is just speculation, then I'll be moving on until someone with real DF play experience is able to share.

You can actual read about what the OP is talking about in the DF forums, and here beta.thenoobcomic.com/df_preview/intro.html an ongoing beta review..by a beta tester.

Originally posted by dropp

Darkfall isn't the first to introduce a system like this.

Neocron, a game from 2003, is using such a system. it didn't have levels, just skill caps. it also had a system similar to Oblivion's, where you level up attributes by doing actions which are linked to it. the combat is in FPS/TPS (yeah you could change camera position, unlike DF). also, gear was not as important in this game, the main focus was PVPing. the game during beta test had partial PVP looting system; when a person died, one of his items was dropped to the ground (I got a really awesome weapon this way, it was cool). when it launched, the PVP loot system was dumbed down but was still present.

Fallen Earth, a game currently in Alpha state, uses such a system as well. real time FPS/TPS combat system, with no classes (does have levels though). also focuses on PVP, but has a lot of PVE elements and content.

 

so basically, DF brings nothing new unless it does it REALLY good, which is not easy.

 

 

whoah I've never heard of neocron until now, but looking at the webpage it looks like a really cool game. Did you play it? was it good?

Originally posted by tazarconan

I ve tried almost every mmorpg so far and here are my conclusions conserning what DF; combat system will bring /change in mmorpg world compared to other games combat mechanics/systems:

1.I always hated the fact that there is an invisible sheild in higher lvl players that allows them to crit more and get less crits upon them vs lower lvl players  (WOW).... THIS does not exist in DF.

2.automated attack system that all known mmorpgs use so far L2 ,WOW ,WAR, e.t.c. Aids greately  numbers vs quality and skill of a player since there is nothing u can do to avoi a spell that was launched or an arrow since its like an abraam missle that has ayto-guidance system and they can go through trees even mountains till they land upon you. This combat system also aids greately ganging (example 3-4 ppl attacking 1 poor guy) since all the auto -attacks arrows, melle attacks . stuns ,cc, spells will land on him .In DF you have chances to survive if you are skilled , you can avoid arrows ,spells ,block and parry manually when u think you should and along with friendly fire or do soem manuevrs kill 1-2 from 4 and then run yes you have the chance to kill em or survive . The combat  's result  lays upon the skill and not in numbers.

3. Gear .... In all mmorpgs so far u start the loot race and boring farming since its usually 80% gear rest 20% specc avatars skills and ofc player skill. THIS does not exist in DF. Gear helps but in a much lesser degree . Its more like 80% player skill and character build and 20% gear ( maybe less).. That  stucks also with the fact that if u die they can loot you some items so it wont be a catastrophie if u loose them ( easy to replace them with similar or just abit worst items)

4. Almost every friend i have that plays rpgames would love to see an mmo version of oblivion cause of the great combats . The immersion ,the tactical aspect, you move some steps around the the enemy yielding your sword then couple steps fast in front and the sword landing in oponent's plate ,the clanging sounds of weapons its just ... everything . AOC was an exception from other games but it had serious problems in blocking /parrying manually , archers  wasnt exactly manual aiming  (big disapointment) and it was mostly spamming attacks and combos no tactical sense just spamming  making comats look like benny hill movies with both opponents running around and spamming attacks . DDO was semi aytomated since all guys i know enabled ayto attacks after a period . These things do not happen in DF. Archery and spells are manual aiming and that alone gives me extra motive to make a ranger /hunter alike class like i did in oblivion.

5.No lvls just skills. In fact its like oblivion's advanement system ,using swords increasing sword skil e.t.c.  Raising the skills is aqustion cause pve has nothing to do with wow l2 farming mobs pew pew next mob pew pew. mobs are clever all beta testers tend to agree on that ,mobs can even loot you. Will it be tiring? If we are talking about a wow born and raised boy yes. He will hate the fact he got owned by a simple goblin. He thoguht he was a hero , btu he died from a goblin. Thats the wow ' smoto isnt it ? Join 8 million heroes! Ha! Cruel world. In DF not all are heroes , they are heroes to be . Whatever you become in DF though it will be your desicion and whatever you accomplish in game will be made by your sword and cunning mind and ofc good teamwork with your guildies.So is DF's combat system  a driveaway for wow L2 boys? No! Its more like a clear invitation in order to join the best fighters along the world in acruel and immersive world where true adventuring  non-instancing (cough cough AOC)  world.

Concerns? Lattency.. lagg For such amanul combat mmorpg u need very good server and quality in the latt so there wont be great diferences in players latt, at least not in such degree that will deside the combats results.

 

 

 

 

 

I

1. How can you be sure there's no crit modifiers based on skill differences (sword vs defense for instance) just like level differences?  You can't.  You're just guessing.

2. This sounds good on paper, I just hope it pans out.  However, I do see this game being a lesson in frustration for spell casters and archers because people will be jumping around all over the place like rabid hampsters to avoid ranged attacks.

3. I suspect gear is going to play a bigger role in DFO than you think.  They've already stated that crafted gear will be some of the best in the game.  So if gear doesn't make much difference then why even bother with crafting it?  Everyone will just get the store bought stuff.  Same for the epic mob (i.e. dragon) loot.  The only way to truely make gear a non-factor in an MMO is to give everyone the same gear (such as Planetside), or give everyone easy access to the "epic" gear (such as Warhammer).  We'll see how DFO handles it.

4. Let's hope that lag doesn't totally kill this aspect of the game.  I have a hard time believing that during a city siege you aren't going to be lagging so bad that your leet twitch skillz will do any good at all.  Also, remember that friendly fire is gonna get you toasted as you jump around trying to dodge your opponent and land right in front of your teammate.  Forcing you into 1st person mode will make melee combat even more difficult because you can't tell if you're even moving in front of their swing/shot.

5. Personally I don't see much difference between leveling up skills and leveling up exp.  aside from a bit more freedom in customizing your char.  Caster-minded people are still going to level up caster type skills.  However it will be nice to be able to change your skills as you see fit and not be restricted to a certain mold.

  As for mob AI, it's about time someone made a game with challenging mobs.  DAoC had decent mob AI, but as you pointed out goblins were still fodder.  I look forward to having mobs that aren't akin to whack-a-mole in difficulty.

I wouldn't say Darkfall brings nothing new. It never pretended to be anything other than the dream game of the developers, who are UO, AC fans.

Alot of people probabely won't like the game, because it caters to a niche taste and its not very care bear friendly.

I think people find the idea of full loot, 100% PvP, Classless game play a bit to much. Let me just say, the first time I played DOOM as a kid, I almost crapped myself. However I couldnt get enough (of crapping myself).

Originally posted by Ikonic

How will they prevent people from using Macros to lvl up skills?

Is there some kind of "endurance or energy" system to lose it while jumping or will the game be all about "bunny hopping"  while swinging that spiked spatula looking weapon that everyone is using in the video.

Or leaving my character auto running in the corner to up my run skill (a la EQ).

Originally posted by skeaser

Originally posted by Ikonic

How will they prevent people from using Macros to lvl up skills?

Is there some kind of "endurance or energy" system to lose it while jumping or will the game be all about "bunny hopping"  while swinging that spiked spatula looking weapon that everyone is using in the video.

 

Or leaving my character auto running in the corner to up my run skill (a la EQ).

yeah i can see the run thing working (until you get killed by a pker/mob) but its going to be tough to macro a lot of skills... I mean people had trouble killing GOBLINS while they were on the computer, forget about doing it afk. If you can make a macro that can respond to AI then you deserve to skill up afk.

Darkfall pre-release is a lot like an Asian hooker. She's hot as hell, agrees with everything that you want to do, and never leaves you dry. Its easy to see in her everything you ever wanted in a woman.

But then you realize that you don't really know her at all. You haven't been speaking the same language. There has never been any meaningful communication. Most of what you love in her is based purely on speculation. You have made these assumptions about why you love her because you want it to be true.

Then one day you get a good translator and realize that she is nothing like you were hoping. She did everthing you wanted only because she wanted your money.

lol...good analogy...yet crude, but still funny

Originally posted by logicbomb82

Skill based system with looting and player controlled Dodging and melee is all things Asheron's Call did 8 years ago. It's the reason many PVP''s still play AC and rave about it.
 

9years ago 99:P

Darkfall is for most part moddeled after AC-UO and elderscroll games.

If you release a game these days its almost imposible to be unique most has already been done before.

But as a game Darkfall is a unique mmo daring to be different then almost all mmo's out there.

DF is basically UO+AC-DT+fps combat
Who cares if its original.. I just want to play an MMO i can actually enjoy.. Which I am unable to do at the moment.
 

Hehe I like all those WoW haters. They sucked in WoW pvp (which actually takes alotta skill) and guess they will succeed in DF. Well I highly doubt. I even ain't sure about myself. And I was warlord and gladiator in WoW...

One of the things that will be interesting to see how it pans out in Darfall is the mechanics of friendly fire when you don't have lockable targets. If a very large raid is formed for siege level combat, there's going to be a lot of accidents.  Some possibilities:

1) Shooting an arrow into the back of the head of the guy in front of you.

2) Trampling fallen comrades on your horse.

3) While preparing the cauldron of hot oil to spill from your castle wall onto siegers, you spill it and accidentally wipe out 20 of your teammates.

4) A novice is put in charge of the catapult from inside the keep walls.  He misfires and knocks out the castles front door.

5) During a short respite in the action, you run to the fridge for a soda.  Meanwhile your cat steps on your keyboard and starts AOE'ing your raid group.

Originally posted by angrymime

One of the things that will be interesting to see how it pans out in Darfall is the mechanics of friendly fire when you don't have lockable targets. If a very large raid is formed for siege level combat, there's going to be a lot of accidents.  Some possibilities:

1) Shooting an arrow into the back of the head of the guy in front of you.

2) Trampling fallen comrades on your horse.

3) While preparing the cauldron of hot oil to spill from your castle wall onto siegers, you spill it and accidentally wipe out 20 of your teammates.

4) A novice is put in charge of the catapult from inside the keep walls.  He misfires and knocks out the castles front door.

5) During a short respite in the action, you run to the fridge for a soda.  Meanwhile your cat steps on your keyboard and starts AOE'ing your raid group.

 

Hahaha.

Originally posted by altairzq

Originally posted by RDBeast

Yep, all of this makes for a more tactical, skillfull, fun and rewarding system in my opinion. It will be much fun actually having more control over your actions in comparison to the autoaim combat system.

You better have a great ping and be very skilled.

My thoughts exactly.  It seems like if any game could be destroyed by lag it would be this one and I've never known anyone on any quality of machine that didn't have lag issues in massive combat.