The challenge may be that Darkfall allows too much griefing, and will go the road of Shadowbane (aka, the toilet).

While EQ1 had the open dungeons, and ninja-looting abilities, most people did not play on a PvP server and the greater issues involved with PvP on top of those features may work well... or may be a nightmare.

All it will take is for one guild to grow large enough to monopolize a server... if that happens on each server, and people get fed p and quit, do you honestly think Darkfall will survive?

Hate the carebears or not, if you don't get some of them to play "your" game, it isn't going to last.

Originally posted by tro44_1

WOW I wonder how this will be done.

It reminds me of the World Instances in Vanilla WoW (Before the nerf the world elites to normal mobs).

But I assume these dungons will have Improved loot. I just wonder how it will be done, and Balanced, so the server can handle many players fighting in the same area.

Also I hope the developers figure out a way to deal with the Mob taggers . (Well least Me and a group can try to kill the taggers if they get the loot)

Also how extreme will these Dungons be. Will there be very large and cool boss fights?

I cant wait to see the Mass PvP going on during a boss fight. Be something like Old AV in wow or some Major City raid on Thrall

I believe mobs will not be tagged. Anyone reaching this dungeons can kill your raid boss and loot it. Thats they  way an open dungeons works: If they ninja loot you, kill them. This works for raid dungeons and normal pve fight, You kill a boar, a jackass comes out and ninja loot it, you kill him and recover your loot.

Awesome.

You are mining, some jackass appear and start mining in your spot, you kill him and take your ore.

More awesome.

You are peeing in a river, some jackass appear an pee higher in the river than you, you kill him and you have your pee.

Ah well, this last one looks kinda stupid...

Attention Players: To the left side of the plane you will see Dark Fall...To the right side you will see WoW and other instanced games where there is nothing to worry about but grind grind grind, uber gear, gold farmers, botters and "high number level" players that enjoy killing lowbies simply because they know that there is no way the lowbie can win. 

Now while Dark Fall Airlines does not deem to tell you which of you are HARDCORE and which of you are CAREBEARS we trust that in your soul you will know the truth and ask you to choose an exit accordingly.

Thank your for flying with us on Dark Fall Airlines and we hope that HARDCORE PLAYERS will return.  As for CAREBEARS please stop at the gift shops on your way out and enjoy buying as we know that you are well experienced in Cash Shop shopping.

Originally posted by KrystDaymen

Attention Players: To the left side of the plane you will see Dark Fall...To the right side you will see WoW and other instanced games where there is nothing to worry about but grind grind grind, uber gear, gold farmers, botters and "high number level" players that enjoy killing lowbies simply because they know that there is no way the lowbie can win. 

Now while Dark Fall Airlines does not deem to tell you which of you are HARDCORE and which of you are CAREBEARS we trust that in your soul you will know the truth and ask you to choose an exit accordingly.

Thank your for flying with us on Dark Fall Airlines and we hope that HARDCORE PLAYERS will return.  As for CAREBEARS please stop at the gift shops on your way out and enjoy buying as we know that you are well experienced in Cash Shop shopping.

Cute.  Except as someone else posted, if you don't get some of those carebears to stick around, you'll have a game with a very small population of hardcore players.

Even a game like EVE finds a way to placate they less violent player and keep them around, else who would we really prey on?

If we've learned anything in EVE, is when the stakes are high, and death is truly punitive, then smart players will work very hard to not get killed.  (which in turn means, they don't kill as much in return)

Should be interesting to see how it all plays out.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by KrystDaymen

Attention Players: To the left side of the plane you will see Dark Fall...To the right side you will see WoW and other instanced games where there is nothing to worry about but grind grind grind, uber gear, gold farmers, botters and "high number level" players that enjoy killing lowbies simply because they know that there is no way the lowbie can win. 

Now while Dark Fall Airlines does not deem to tell you which of you are HARDCORE and which of you are CAREBEARS we trust that in your soul you will know the truth and ask you to choose an exit accordingly.

Thank your for flying with us on Dark Fall Airlines and we hope that HARDCORE PLAYERS will return.  As for CAREBEARS please stop at the gift shops on your way out and enjoy buying as we know that you are well experienced in Cash Shop shopping.

 

Cute.  Except as someone else posted, if you don't get some of those carebears to stick around, you'll have a game with a very small population of hardcore players.

Even a game like EVE finds a way to placate they less violent player and keep them around, else who would we really prey on?

If we've learned anything in EVE, is when the stakes are high, and death is truly punitive, then smart players will work very hard to not get killed.  (which in turn means, they don't kill as much in return)

Should be interesting to see how it all plays out.

 

There will be plenty of room for carebears in DFO.  Most of them will be the crafters and Crafters will be the most worshipped players in the game IMHO.  The "carebears" I'm talking about are the ones that consider themselves to be true "HardCore" pvp'rs and yet don't want to risk losing anything when they die or get killed.  PvP in an mmo is pointless if nothing is gained or lost by it.  You might as well play an FPS, and while I like true FPS games ( and yes I know that ranged combat will be in FPS mode) pvp with no consequences has no place in a persistent world.

DISCLAIMER: While the opinions stated in this post are those of the replier, they in no way represent the opinions of CareBears anywhere.

Thank you, Come Again.

DF is not just for hardcore PVPers, i think anyone who's sick of the static, scripted worlds and highly repetitive, dumbed-down content found in WOW/WAR/AoC would probably like Darkfall. The game has been built to appeal equally to both PVPers and PVEers.

Originally posted by javac

DF is not just for hardcore PVPers, i think anyone who's sick of the static, scripted worlds and highly repetitive, dumbed-down content found in WOW/WAR/AoC would probably like Darkfall. The game has been built to appeal equally to both PVPers and PVEers.

The only PVEers that will be be playing DFO are the "hardcore" PVPers who want some loot from mobs when they are little bored of ganking others.

Yes, the PVP game and PVE game will be viable...but people who do not like PVP will not like this game. The first time they are killed by another player and lose something they will log off and not come back. There are gamers that are looking forward to plopping down there subscription fee and playing DFO knowing they could lose tons of stuff from player killers and there are those that will not pay for such a service.

Originally posted by javac

DF is not just for hardcore PVPers, i think anyone who's sick of the static, scripted worlds and highly repetitive, dumbed-down content found in WOW/WAR/AoC would probably like Darkfall. The game has been built to appeal equally to both PVPers and PVEers.

I completely agree.  If I have given the impression that I don't want PVEers in the game I apologize.  My rants are more geared towards troll "pvp" players who want to pvp but don't want to lose anything if they lose.  As for PVE I surely hope that it will be as you say, and from the beta testers that I've heard from and from the in game gameplay footage I've seen I think PVE will be just as exciting, if not more so, than pvp.

Originally posted by KrystDaymen

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by KrystDaymen

Attention Players: To the left side of the plane you will see Dark Fall...To the right side you will see WoW and other instanced games where there is nothing to worry about but grind grind grind, uber gear, gold farmers, botters and "high number level" players that enjoy killing lowbies simply because they know that there is no way the lowbie can win. 

Now while Dark Fall Airlines does not deem to tell you which of you are HARDCORE and which of you are CAREBEARS we trust that in your soul you will know the truth and ask you to choose an exit accordingly.

Thank your for flying with us on Dark Fall Airlines and we hope that HARDCORE PLAYERS will return.  As for CAREBEARS please stop at the gift shops on your way out and enjoy buying as we know that you are well experienced in Cash Shop shopping.

 

Cute.  Except as someone else posted, if you don't get some of those carebears to stick around, you'll have a game with a very small population of hardcore players.

Even a game like EVE finds a way to placate they less violent player and keep them around, else who would we really prey on?

If we've learned anything in EVE, is when the stakes are high, and death is truly punitive, then smart players will work very hard to not get killed.  (which in turn means, they don't kill as much in return)

Should be interesting to see how it all plays out.

 

 

There will be plenty of room for carebears in DFO.  Most of them will be the crafters and Crafters will be the most worshipped players in the game IMHO.  The "carebears" I'm talking about are the ones that consider themselves to be true "HardCore" pvp'rs and yet don't want to risk losing anything when they die or get killed.  PvP in an mmo is pointless if nothing is gained or lost by it.  You might as well play an FPS, and while I like true FPS games ( and yes I know that ranged combat will be in FPS mode) pvp with no consequences has no place in a persistent world.

DISCLAIMER: While the opinions stated in this post are those of the replier, they in no way represent the opinions of CareBears anywhere.

Thank you, Come Again.

I sort of agree with your point  about pvp being worthless without gaining or losing something, but a lot of people will not be happy losing or gaining what DFO it offering.

No game has yet to instrument a PVP system that makes the majority of the player base want to PVP regardless of what is lost or gained. I don't see how Darkfall will be any different. Don't get me wrong, I'm eagerly awaiting DFO but I am a realist and know that DFO is not offering anything new.

Originally posted by Triggger

Originally posted by tro44_1

WOW I wonder how this will be done.

It reminds me of the World Instances in Vanilla WoW (Before the nerf the world elites to normal mobs).

But I assume these dungons will have Improved loot. I just wonder how it will be done, and Balanced, so the server can handle many players fighting in the same area.

Also I hope the developers figure out a way to deal with the Mob taggers . (Well least Me and a group can try to kill the taggers if they get the loot)

Also how extreme will these Dungons be. Will there be very large and cool boss fights?

I cant wait to see the Mass PvP going on during a boss fight. Be something like Old AV in wow or some Major City raid on Thrall

Vanguard has uninstanced dungeons,it has been done since EQ1 you know.

ya but what game would be a game without a reference to World of Crapshit

OMG darkfall has feature that already exists in other game that is so 9th generation. Cnat wait for the revolution

actually, all dungeons in darkfall are instanced. theres just only 1 instance of each dungeon open, and there will never be more than 1 instance open, regardless how many people are in this instance.

lineage 2 had no instanced dungeons either, a large guild on my server locked the high end dungeon up for other players.

Originally posted by stonylein

actually, all dungeons in darkfall are instanced. theres just only 1 instance of each dungeon open, and there will never be more than 1 instance open, regardless how many people are in this instance.

 

lineage 2 had no instanced dungeons either, a large guild on my server locked the high end dungeon up for other players.

Id be willing to bet this will be prevalent in DFO, the good dungeons will be held by larger guilds who will block access to them with their numbers.

It'll be just like EQ1 and UO...better pray you have more friends with you than the next guy.   But then Gear isn't Darkfalls focus like EQ1 and WoW so I'm betting the dungeons will be similiar to UO, still would suck to get jacked there.

 I can't see this working in this day and age. Most poeple will say how great it is for the first month or so and then they'll start getting pissed after some retards ninja mobs or they keep getting ganked by a larger group of players.  DF isn't going to have the same community as early EQ, if you think it will then you live in cocku land, therefore griefers aren't going to get punished by the community, creating more QQ on forums.

The devs will then:

a) stick by their guns and keep the system as it is and cater to the hardcore players, which alienates their core base and drives them away, leaving DF with 25k-50k subs (see PotBS for what happens when devs stick with hardcore players)

b) change the looting system/add tagging system so that casuals are happy, and stay around the 100-200k subs, which is a pretty nice number (see EQ2/Vanguard for what happens when Devs change the game to cater for more casual players)

I am one of those that enjoyed the dungeons in EQ and miss some of them, however i think there needs to be a balance between instanced/non instanced dungeons to keep rewards spread evenly between hardcore/casual players. There's no way I would be getting up at 3am now to go and kill a raid boss that has just spawned. It works well on paper, but the MMO scene and it's playerbase has changed, if DF doesn't realise this then it will fail.

Hilarious. You can tell who hasn't played AC. Everyone is trying to fit DF ideas into a WoW mold.

I remember dozens of dungeons that were completely empty and it wasn't a result of low server pop either. The world was just massive and the dungeons numerous. When I would run into another player in a dungeon it was a big surprise. We'd almost always stop and talk for a bit.

If you wanted to see players you'd go to a popular dungeon like The Pit or one of the popular Olthoi dungeons, but the landscape was littered with hundreds of interesting dungeons to explore.

Originally posted by Raztor

 I can't see this working in this day and age. Most poeple will say how great it is for the first month or so and then they'll start getting pissed after some retards ninja mobs or they keep getting ganked by a larger group of players.  DF isn't going to have the same community as early EQ, if you think it will then you live in cocku land, therefore griefers aren't going to get punished by the community, creating more QQ on forums.

 

The devs will then:

a) stick by their guns and keep the system as it is and cater to the hardcore players, which alienates their core base and drives them away, leaving DF with 25k-50k subs (see PotBS for what happens when devs stick with hardcore players)

 

b) change the looting system/add tagging system so that casuals are happy, and stay around the 100-200k subs, which is a pretty nice number (see EQ2/Vanguard for what happens when Devs change the game to cater for more casual players)

 

I am one of those that enjoyed the dungeons in EQ and miss some of them, however i think there needs to be a balance between instanced/non instanced dungeons to keep rewards spread evenly between hardcore/casual players. There's no way I would be getting up at 3am now to go and kill a raid boss that has just spawned. It works well on paper, but the MMO scene and it's playerbase has changed, if DF doesn't realise this then it will fail.

I absolutely agree with this post. Most of DFOs' fans have no real background in ffa pvp. Ive said many times that they will be the first to to cancel their subscriptions. Its going to be far too brutal for the tastes of todays average gamer.

Now the fans constantly argue with me on this, defending themselves with conjecture like "there will be guards" "gankers will be unable to get into good guilds" "The world is so big gankers wont find you", and the list just goes on and on. People will be looking to wreak havoc, no doubt about it, and anyone who says that ganking wont be rampant is living in a pipe dream.

There probably will be alot of ganking but at the same time hopefully it will be a real advantage to group up for the pve stuff so some of the time you will be left alone unless ofcourse another group comes up who are a bit bloodthirsty. If your on your own then yeah people will probably try and gank you but it will probably be more profitable (i hope) to group up and pve.

Non instanced dungeons are great and all but you know there is going to be that group of people hiding in the dark waiting for someone to attack the boss and gank your party, loot your shit and then kill the boss.

I see these 2 things happening and it being the only way to get loot most of the time.

1. Ninja looting other groups stuff.

2. Having to gank other groups to steal their loot because your group has been ganked so many times you got tired of trying to kill the boss without getting ganked or ninja looted.

Now maybe that group will leave after they did it once or maybe their goal is to gank people all day.

Just sounds like one big gank fest........ but I could be wrong.

Did anyone here play AOC when it launched? It was a blood bath on the FFA servers. Guilds would lock whole zones down and all of its mirrors. It will happen again. I do like the fact that if I make it out of town it will be difficult to find me again. I am going to play DFO because of it's features other than PVP. I like the fact I can kill someone, just dont see it nessisary all the time. It will change, the Devs will have no choice in the matter when the majority cancel there subs after the firt month because they cant leave town.